**OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD** Dog Will and Joe Judas must GO!
Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO
**OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD** Dog Will and Joe Judas must GO!
- MrDollarBills
- RealGM
- Posts: 75,788
- And1: 52,565
- Joined: Feb 15, 2008
-
**OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD** Dog Will and Joe Judas must GO!
I'm done with Joe Judas.
and Deron the Dog Williams
and big Bitch Lopez
You guys can blame Hollins all you want. You can hate Jarret Jack. You can toss Plumlee under the bus.
FACTS:
The three highest paid players on this team aren't worth S H I T.
Billy King and the ineptitude of these **** ing losers are the cause of everything.
If we can ship two of these ass holes out of here during the summer, we should feel fortunate.
I would have taken that deal earlier on in the year. King is a fool. These dudes suck balls.
and Deron the Dog Williams
and big Bitch Lopez
You guys can blame Hollins all you want. You can hate Jarret Jack. You can toss Plumlee under the bus.
FACTS:
The three highest paid players on this team aren't worth S H I T.
Billy King and the ineptitude of these **** ing losers are the cause of everything.
If we can ship two of these ass holes out of here during the summer, we should feel fortunate.
I would have taken that deal earlier on in the year. King is a fool. These dudes suck balls.
Please consider donating blood: https://www.nybc.org/
2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas/T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma/C. Castleton
SF: T. Evbuomwan/J. Howard
SG: G. Allen/L. Kennard
PG: S. Curry (lol)/C. Payne
2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas/T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma/C. Castleton
SF: T. Evbuomwan/J. Howard
SG: G. Allen/L. Kennard
PG: S. Curry (lol)/C. Payne
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- Ballboy
- Posts: 37
- And1: 3
- Joined: Mar 05, 2015
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Why do you call him Joe Judas? That would imply he betrayed you. Which would seem to imply you once valued him. Which would mean you overvalued him. Don't blame Joe for your poor talent assessment!
He's always been the worst of the big three and the silent cancer. Was always the piece that didn't fit, but hid behind the other "big 3".
Should have moved him this off-season as I alone advocated. I was mocked and hated, but I was of course right.
He's always been the worst of the big three and the silent cancer. Was always the piece that didn't fit, but hid behind the other "big 3".
Should have moved him this off-season as I alone advocated. I was mocked and hated, but I was of course right.
"causation is irrelevant"
-Prokorov
-Prokorov
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
- Diop
- Forum Mod - Hornets
- Posts: 40,366
- And1: 20,729
- Joined: Jul 24, 2004
- Location: Diop Dead Ugly
-
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
still makes me think that a Lance/JJ swap probably would have benefited both teams

Re: Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- Nets Forum: Asst. To The RM
- Posts: 39,015
- And1: 11,965
- Joined: Aug 16, 2012
- Location: NYC
-
Re: Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Sachmo wrote:still makes me think that a Lance/JJ swap probably would have benefited both teams
The only thing a Lance Stephenson/Joe Johnson swap can do for us is help us financially. Stephenson is terrible and he confirmed that last night.
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- Assistant Coach
- Posts: 3,896
- And1: 1,198
- Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Pumbo_Sploof wrote:Why do you call him Joe Judas? That would imply he betrayed you. Which would seem to imply you once valued him. Which would mean you overvalued him. Don't blame Joe for your poor talent assessment!
He's always been the worst of the big three and the silent cancer. Was always the piece that didn't fit, but hid behind the other "big 3".
Should have moved him this off-season as I alone advocated. I was mocked and hated, but I was of course right.
What? You have 6 posts and you're talking about being mocked and hated for advocating moving Joe? LOL
No one talked about moving Joe this offseason on these boards. You certainly didn't and there was no conversation where anyone was mocked and hated.
His contract makes him pretty unmovable as well
How is he the silent cancer? The whole product is terrible. He's not causing terrible players to be terrible. He also hasnt always been the worst of the big 3. Where were you in the playoffs last year where DWill was held scoreless while Joe was putting the team on his shoulders? He was clearly better than DWill last year and Brook by default.
Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- Sophomore
- Posts: 218
- And1: 38
- Joined: Mar 06, 2014
Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Biggest game of the year. Deron and Joe really needed to come through and carry us. Both had horrible games on both ends of the court. I don't see how we bounce back from this.
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
- MrDollarBills
- RealGM
- Posts: 75,788
- And1: 52,565
- Joined: Feb 15, 2008
-
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Pumbo_Sploof wrote:Why do you call him Joe Judas? That would imply he betrayed you. Which would seem to imply you once valued him. Which would mean you overvalued him. Don't blame Joe for your poor talent assessment!
He's always been the worst of the big three and the silent cancer. Was always the piece that didn't fit, but hid behind the other "big 3".
Should have moved him this off-season as I alone advocated. I was mocked and hated, but I was of course right.
This is by far the dumbest post I've ever read on here.
Johnson was the only one of the "big" 3 that was worth a damn last year. How can he hide behind Lopez, an oft injured, inconsistent career loser and Deron Williams, who has been a massive disappointment?
And who laughed and mocked you

Please consider donating blood: https://www.nybc.org/
2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas/T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma/C. Castleton
SF: T. Evbuomwan/J. Howard
SG: G. Allen/L. Kennard
PG: S. Curry (lol)/C. Payne
2025-2026 Indiana Pacers
C: J. Valanciunas/T. Bryant
PF: K. Kuzma/C. Castleton
SF: T. Evbuomwan/J. Howard
SG: G. Allen/L. Kennard
PG: S. Curry (lol)/C. Payne
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
- NyCeEvO
- Forum Mod - Nets
- Posts: 22,057
- And1: 6,082
- Joined: Jul 14, 2010
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Is it possible that multiple factors cause this team's demise and not just one?
I don't think anyone has argued that the team would be awesome if one player or one coach's presence was no longer here. The only people who come close to that are those who heavily favor particular players to the point of blind homerism and are unwilling to see their flaws.
The fact that the little 3 have underachieved has been beaten to death. This isn't a question. We have the highest payroll in the league, 9 games under .500 in the Eastern Conference, and everyone is healthy. That should be a clear cut sign that there is something severely wrong with player personnel.
If the players played up to the value of their contracts, we'd be fine and the lack of cap space wouldn't be an issue. But when none of your max contract players are top 5 (probably top 10) in their respective positions, you're going to suffer big time.
Personally, my order for the result that we're seeing is:
1) The Core
2) Billy King
A distant 3) Lionel Hollins
IMO, Hollins isn't that great of a coach but I don't think his decisions have negatively impacted us in a tremendous way. If you had another coach in here, I doubt they'd be close to .500 with this squad.
It's the players who are unable to produce anywhere close to the level that's expected of them and Billy King, who blew up the future for a group of guys who don't bring it.
I don't think we need an official thread to go over this stuff. We all know it and there's not much that can be done about it with Billy at the helm.
I don't think anyone has argued that the team would be awesome if one player or one coach's presence was no longer here. The only people who come close to that are those who heavily favor particular players to the point of blind homerism and are unwilling to see their flaws.
The fact that the little 3 have underachieved has been beaten to death. This isn't a question. We have the highest payroll in the league, 9 games under .500 in the Eastern Conference, and everyone is healthy. That should be a clear cut sign that there is something severely wrong with player personnel.
If the players played up to the value of their contracts, we'd be fine and the lack of cap space wouldn't be an issue. But when none of your max contract players are top 5 (probably top 10) in their respective positions, you're going to suffer big time.
Personally, my order for the result that we're seeing is:
1) The Core
2) Billy King
A distant 3) Lionel Hollins
IMO, Hollins isn't that great of a coach but I don't think his decisions have negatively impacted us in a tremendous way. If you had another coach in here, I doubt they'd be close to .500 with this squad.
It's the players who are unable to produce anywhere close to the level that's expected of them and Billy King, who blew up the future for a group of guys who don't bring it.
I don't think we need an official thread to go over this stuff. We all know it and there's not much that can be done about it with Billy at the helm.
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- Junior
- Posts: 429
- And1: 75
- Joined: Nov 22, 2014
-
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Been said this team would be better without JJ on it. He is not interested in playing hard when it counts and doesnt get to the line at all. We should have done the JJ lance trade simpy to get either Henderson or Zeller, for god sake Marvin Williams went off against us last night. Zeller could have been a nice pairing to move Dwill.
I am not attached to any of these dudes and Mgmt shouldnt be either.
JJ is flat out a ball stopper on offense and dribbles for 10 secs b4 he gets into his moves, its horrible. I cant wait until this overpaid bum is moved. Eric Gordon would be a god send compared to this.
Deron Williams got ate up by Mo Williams once again, opposing pg's look at this dude as food.
I am not attached to any of these dudes and Mgmt shouldnt be either.
JJ is flat out a ball stopper on offense and dribbles for 10 secs b4 he gets into his moves, its horrible. I cant wait until this overpaid bum is moved. Eric Gordon would be a god send compared to this.
Deron Williams got ate up by Mo Williams once again, opposing pg's look at this dude as food.
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- Assistant Coach
- Posts: 3,896
- And1: 1,198
- Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Shook Jones wrote:Been said this team would be better without JJ on it. He is not interested in playing hard when it counts and doesnt get to the line at all. We should have done the JJ lance trade simpy to get either Henderson or Zeller, for god sake Marvin Williams went off against us last night. Zeller could have been a nice pairing to move Dwill.
I am not attached to any of these dudes and Mgmt shouldnt be either.
JJ is flat out a ball stopper on offense and dribbles for 10 secs b4 he gets into his moves, its horrible. I cant wait until this overpaid bum is moved. Eric Gordon would be a god send compared to this.
Deron Williams got ate up by Mo Williams once again, opposing pg's look at this dude as food.
Like i posted on the previous thread:
Ortg with Joe on the court: 102.5
Ortg with Joe off the court: 96.6
Please provide empirical evidence we are better without Joe's ball stopping.
Zeller wasn't part of the Joe trade rumor. He was mentioned with Lance for Lopez. If we moved him for the sake of moving him: the rumor with the Pistons where we'd get back Jennings who ins't playing, Jerebko, and Butler whose been claimed by father time and is God Awful now how would we better. We'd be relying on lesser players.
He is also isn't being moved because no one is taking on his albatross contract. It would best to let it expire in 2016 than take on any salary that extends into 2017, further delaying the rebuild.
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- Assistant Coach
- Posts: 3,896
- And1: 1,198
- Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
NyCeEvO wrote:Is it possible that multiple factors cause this team's demise and not just one?
I don't think anyone has argued that the team would be awesome if one player or one coach's presence was no longer here. The only people who come close to that are those who heavily favor particular players to the point of blind homerism and are unwilling to see their flaws.
The fact that the little 3 have underachieved has been beaten to death. This isn't a question. We have the highest payroll in the league, 9 games under .500 in the Eastern Conference, and everyone is healthy. That should be a clear cut sign that there is something severely wrong with player personnel.
If the players played up to the value of their contracts, we'd be fine and the lack of cap space wouldn't be an issue. But when none of your max contract players are top 5 (probably top 10) in their respective positions, you're going to suffer big time.
Personally, my order for the result that we're seeing is:
1) The Core
2) Billy King
A distant 3) Lionel Hollins
IMO, Hollins isn't that great of a coach but I don't think his decisions have negatively impacted us in a tremendous way. If you had another coach in here, I doubt they'd be close to .500 with this squad.
It's the players who are unable to produce anywhere close to the level that's expected of them and Billy King, who blew up the future for a group of guys who don't bring it.
I don't think we need an official thread to go over this stuff. We all know it and there's not much that can be done about it with Billy at the helm.
This. I've said this multiple times: after Pierce left I said there's a good chance we miss the playoffs. The just isn't that good. It goes beyond anyone one player, coach. Reading the scapegoating: making one person shoulder the load is tiring.
Blame King were a reaping what he's sown. This team isn't good, has no future. Look at the Knicks: they were burdened by Stat and Bargs contract heading into the year. Everyone knew that team wasn't making the playoffs, but now they're coming into a top 4 pick. I'd take Mudiay, Towns, Okafor, Russel over anyone on this roster. King built a win-now team that can't win.
The whole thing is such a mess. You can't expect Hollins who was dealt a losing hand to bluff his way into the playoffs.
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 43,027
- And1: 14,679
- Joined: Dec 06, 2013
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Pumbo_Sploof wrote:Why do you call him Joe Judas? That would imply he betrayed you. Which would seem to imply you once valued him. Which would mean you overvalued him. Don't blame Joe for your poor talent assessment!
He's always been the worst of the big three and the silent cancer. Was always the piece that didn't fit, but hid behind the other "big 3".
Should have moved him this off-season as I alone advocated. I was mocked and hated, but I was of course right.
Brook is the worst of the big 3.
you can talk "cancer" but the only time this group got to the second round was on Joe's back and with lopez not on the team due to injury.
Our record without lopez this year and last year vs. with him is an enormous difference. im not calling him a cancer, but of the 3 he is the one who least impacts us winning.
none of the pieces fit.
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 43,027
- And1: 14,679
- Joined: Dec 06, 2013
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
lkitt0804 wrote:Biggest game of the year. Deron and Joe really needed to come through and carry us. Both had horrible games on both ends of the court. I don't see how we bounce back from this.
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
lopez was horrible on both ends as well. none of them get a pass for last night
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 43,027
- And1: 14,679
- Joined: Dec 06, 2013
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Shook Jones wrote:Been said this team would be better without JJ on it. He is not interested in playing hard when it counts and doesnt get to the line at all. We should have done the JJ lance trade simpy to get either Henderson or Zeller, for god sake Marvin Williams went off against us last night. Zeller could have been a nice pairing to move Dwill.
I am not attached to any of these dudes and Mgmt shouldnt be either.
JJ is flat out a ball stopper on offense and dribbles for 10 secs b4 he gets into his moves, its horrible. I cant wait until this overpaid bum is moved. Eric Gordon would be a god send compared to this.
Deron Williams got ate up by Mo Williams once again, opposing pg's look at this dude as food.
We should have done any of the charlotte trades.... JJ for Lance/Marvin Gerald or brook for Lance/Zeller.
both would have helped on the floor and financially.
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 43,027
- And1: 14,679
- Joined: Dec 06, 2013
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Blaming King is a cop out. We know king is the worst GM in sports and responsible for this mess.... but you simply cant give the players a pass like that.
as big a mess as king made, there is no reason this team cant be close to .500. with more effort alone we'd be better. The small 3 simply have no heart. Dwill might not be the dwill of old, but he shouldnt be getting outplayed by journeyman and scrubs. Lopez shouldnt be throwing up floaters and jumpshots when he is the biggest guy on the court most nights. JJ might be overly used with his minutes, but he should at least show some ounce of effort at least off the opening tip off.
as big a mess as king made, there is no reason this team cant be close to .500. with more effort alone we'd be better. The small 3 simply have no heart. Dwill might not be the dwill of old, but he shouldnt be getting outplayed by journeyman and scrubs. Lopez shouldnt be throwing up floaters and jumpshots when he is the biggest guy on the court most nights. JJ might be overly used with his minutes, but he should at least show some ounce of effort at least off the opening tip off.
Re: Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- Nets Forum: Asst. To The RM
- Posts: 39,015
- And1: 11,965
- Joined: Aug 16, 2012
- Location: NYC
-
Re: Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Prokorov wrote:Blaming King is a cop out. We know king is the worst GM in sports and responsible for this mess.... but you simply cant give the players a pass like that.
as big a mess as king made, there is no reason this team cant be close to .500. with more effort alone we'd be better. The small 3 simply have no heart. Dwill might not be the dwill of old, but he shouldnt be getting outplayed by journeyman and scrubs. Lopez shouldnt be throwing up floaters and jumpshots when he is the biggest guy on the court most nights. JJ might be overly used with his minutes, but he should at least show some ounce of effort at least off the opening tip off.
We won 93 games in the two previous seasons. This core could contend in the East if they truly wanted to win in this league but they don't. Being below average is normal. When Hollins attacked them in the media it was him being too harsh.
Billy King destroyed our future but no coach is changing the lack of competitive desire Deron/Brook/Joe has brought to this franchise.
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- Junior
- Posts: 429
- And1: 75
- Joined: Nov 22, 2014
-
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Lopez wants and tries to compete but he is a 1/2 clutz and he's a nerd. Also him being ultra nice guy doesnt help. If he had the fire in him his brother has he would be amazing. Lopez could dunk the ball at least 5 times a game but goes up for nice guy shots. Its frustrating as hell.
I take him at least trying over JJ walking up and down the court to each 3 pt line and then getting the ball and dribbling 15 times and chucking a contested 2. Cut without the ball and draw a foul for once joe!
Dwill is just a mental case further exposed cause of injury. The expectations crushed him.
I take him at least trying over JJ walking up and down the court to each 3 pt line and then getting the ball and dribbling 15 times and chucking a contested 2. Cut without the ball and draw a foul for once joe!
Dwill is just a mental case further exposed cause of injury. The expectations crushed him.
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 43,027
- And1: 14,679
- Joined: Dec 06, 2013
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Shook Jones wrote:Lopez wants and tries to compete but he is a 1/2 clutz and he's a nerd. Also him being ultra nice guy doesnt help. If he had the fire in him his brother has he would be amazing. Lopez could dunk the ball at least 5 times a game but goes up for nice guy shots. Its frustrating as hell.
I take him at least trying over JJ walking up and down the court to each 3 pt line and then getting the ball and dribbling 15 times and chucking a contested 2. Cut without the ball and draw a foul for once joe!
Dwill is just a mental case further exposed cause of injury. The expectations crushed him.
JJ has checked out... overworked and checked out is a bad combo.
Everytime lopez takes that shotput flip shot he takes a day off of my life and somewhere a puppy dies
Dwill has gotten to the point were i dont even expect him to play good. that says enough in of itself
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- Ballboy
- Posts: 37
- And1: 3
- Joined: Mar 05, 2015
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Prokorov wrote:Our record without lopez this year and last year vs. with him is an enormous difference.
Correlation does not equal causation. This is a weak, reductionist argument.
"causation is irrelevant"
-Prokorov
-Prokorov
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 43,027
- And1: 14,679
- Joined: Dec 06, 2013
Re: Joe Johnson scored 2 points tonight **OFFICIAL F THE 'BIG' 3 THREAD**
Pumbo_Sploof wrote:Prokorov wrote:Our record without lopez this year and last year vs. with him is an enormous difference.
Correlation does not equal causation. This is a weak, reductionist argument.
causation is irrelevant. Regardless of reason, it is clear that we can, and have, won without him. id also argue all the things we got better at last year were at least inderectly due to lopez no longer being there. KG could play the 5, the ball moved better since livingston took lopez spot in the lineup. our fast break points and steals jump up, 2 things lopez doesnt do but the replacement did do well.
the only weak argument is you strawman.