NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[TyCobb]

Ty is a knowledgeable Basketball poster but when it comes to personal or racial matters, he's more like the former. I think far too often whites don't realize we see things different. To us and our generation, racism is more about economics than anything. Businesses, opportunities and what not. They still think it's about a word or saying names. It's about action, it was always about action. It's more of a system nowadays but @Ty, the logic you are using is extremely racist to today's Blacks. EXTREMELY.

Breaking news: White people can come from low-income households too.

Breaking news: Systematic White supremacy effects all Black people, not just low-income households. That's a nonsensical take from my analysis and one that wasn't made.

There are hundreds of thousands of people that get laid off each year, regardless of the color of skin or educational level, because their jobs were outsourced to foreign countries because of relatively cheap labor.

[ALL HAIL]

NBA is an organization that can have its restrictions on who it wants employed. Ultimately they want to select athletes who are mature enough to work in an environment where the scrutiny is high and as such they might feel the need for an age limit. One cannot equate that to Steve Jobs or Zuckerberg dropping out of college, those guys were their own bosses and did not need a team to babysit them.

I remember stories about how the Wizards had a 24 hr caretaker for Kwame Brown when they drafted him, I mean a dude just lived with Kwame, did his grocery shopping, laundry etc to make sure Kwame learns how to live on his own, away from his mama for the first time. Does the league want that kind of responsibility again? They obviously didn't think it was worth and hence the age limit.

Trust me, I hear you, but if you take Ty's angle, I'd say that no one is making GMs select these guys.

Ty says "go overseas". I say "draft a more mature player".

NBA has made rules to protect GMs from their own stupidity time and again, like the Stepien rule, max durations for contracts and so on. This is no different.

True, but whether or not this practice is right is a whole 'nother argument in itself.

[Scrapachenko]

You can't bar-tend unless you are 18. What about all the talented 14 year old bartenders who cannot make their fair market money by not being allowed to bar-tend?

If you are going to compare capitalism in the form of inventing a product to seeking an employment with an organization (NBA), then I'd like to question the place that gave you a law degree.

Pretty sure the poster is in favor of a pre-high school ban ... and maybe you're just pointing out that age limits will always exist in sports in some form or fashion.

NBA is an organization that can have its restrictions on who it wants employed. Ultimately they want to select athletes who are mature enough to work in an environment where the scrutiny is high and as such they might feel the need for an age limit. One cannot equate that to Steve Jobs or Zuckerberg dropping out of college, those guys were their own bosses and did not need a team to babysit them.

I remember stories about how the Wizards had a 24 hr caretaker for Kwame Brown when they drafted him, I mean a dude just lived with Kwame, did his grocery shopping, laundry etc to make sure Kwame learns how to live on his own, away from his mama for the first time. Does the league want that kind of responsibility again? They obviously didn't think it was worth and hence the age limit.

The NBA doesn't employ the players, the teams do. The teams are individual businesses that cooperate with the NBA to schedule games and establish a common set of rules. When multiple teams restrict professionals based on age or some other factor besides ability from obtaining employment that could be considered collusion. So far, this right has been collectively bargained away by the players association(in the last agreement). However, restricting the ability of someone not yet a member of that union from obtaining employment is a slippery slope.

If the business owners(owners of the teams), don't want to employ 18-year old kids, that's fine, don't draft them. However, when that 18 year-old kid is LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett or Anthony Davis(who would've went high as a HS senior) then good luck getting all of the owners to stay away. It requires collusion to keep those kids away from the league in the form of a collective bargaining agreement. The NBPA played ball the last time around but may not feel the need to concede that this time around. Really, this shouldn't even be something that can be collectively bargained but the courts have been very partial towards allowing employees to collectively bargain their own rights. However, in the future that could change.

The NBA would be wise to do away with that stupid rule as sooner or later it's going away any way. It'd be better to get in front of it. It's brilliant for the NBPA to use the race argument especially in light of the Donald Sterling news and other black eyes for the league. Hit them where it hurts...

[mademan]

Basketball players aren't forced to go to the NCAA. They can go overseas. Why should a basketball coach who excels at developing players not be paid millions of dollars?

Basketball players are absolutely forced to go through the NCAA, it's the only american option available. The schools are colluding and are in blatant violation of anti-trust laws and working like cartels to garnish the wages of their employees. This is as anti-american as it gets

[ALL HAIL]

Breaking news: White people can come from low-income households too.

Breaking news: Systematic White supremacy effects all Black people, not just low-income households. That's a nonsensical take from my analysis and one that wasn't made.

There are hundreds of thousands of people that get laid off each year, regardless of the color of skin or educational level, because their jobs were outsourced to foreign countries because of relatively cheap labor.

Like many convoluted discussions that take many twists and turns, I have no idea what, specifically, either one of you is arguing.

[TyCobb]

Breaking news: Systematic White supremacy effects all Black people, not just low-income households. That's a nonsensical take from my analysis and one that wasn't made.

There are hundreds of thousands of people that get laid off each year, regardless of the color of skin or educational level, because their jobs were outsourced to foreign countries because of relatively cheap labor.

Like many convoluted discussions that take many twists and turns, I have no idea what, specifically, either one of you is arguing.

I'm just going to argue for a minor league system like baseball and move on. Happy Friday y'all.

[gustofwind]

If the NBPA wants younger players, the NBA needs a system to accommodate them.

Why isn't the D-League used as a minor league for rookies? Or is it used as such by some? Should the D-League be expanded to accommodate more young players?

It is, by the way, silly that future stars are forced to go to one year of college. If they don't want to truly commit to a four year education they should have a viable minor league option.

[King Ken]

Breaking news: White people can come from low-income households too.

Breaking news: Systematic White supremacy effects all Black people, not just low-income households. That's a nonsensical take from my analysis and one that wasn't made.

There are hundreds of thousands of people that get laid off each year, regardless of the color of skin or educational level, because their jobs were outsourced to foreign countries because of relatively cheap labor.

Once again, we are talking about NBA players who are primarily Black. Who are not poor. Which comes to my next point? Why would you come to a conclusion we are talking about poor people when we are talking about Black people as a whole?

Next, why would you bring up unemployed general population when we are talking about systematic white supremacy, are you going for the odd deflection having nothing to do which the point being mentioned.

What's next? I will ask you a question like who is the best Laker and you will say, "well I liked the game Oscar Robertson had v. the Lakers in 1960 and he played a great game. I love Oscar, don't you."

[ALL HAIL]

There are hundreds of thousands of people that get laid off each year, regardless of the color of skin or educational level, because their jobs were outsourced to foreign countries because of relatively cheap labor.

Like many convoluted discussions that take many twists and turns, I have no idea what, specifically, either one of you is arguing.

I'm just going to argue for a minor league system like baseball and move on. Happy Friday y'all.

There you go. Much better. Very generally speaking, I agree.

[nrockwaychicago]

Breaking news: Systematic White supremacy effects all Black people, not just low-income households. That's a nonsensical take from my analysis and one that wasn't made.

There are hundreds of thousands of people that get laid off each year, regardless of the color of skin or educational level, because their jobs were outsourced to foreign countries because of relatively cheap labor.

Like many convoluted discussions that take many twists and turns, I have no idea what, specifically, either one of you is arguing.

Dude is trying to pretend white people aren't inherently privileged. I say this as someone who's white as ****. I'm a white man I pretty much won the genetic lottery.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[thelead]

The big reason why Whites can't understand what racism or systematic white supremacy is because it doesn't effect them negatively and it's not their problem. I agree with the NBAPA lawyer. It's 100% racist and she's right, it wouldn't happen if a majority of the players were white. Of course, that's a hypothetical but in this system, beating on white justice and Black injustice is as accurate as the Generals losing to the Globetrotters.

I'm not white, have personally experienced racism, and find this statement stupid. This ish has NOTHING to do with race and ALL to do with $$$$.

Please tell me how it is stupid? This has everything to do with race. EVERYTHING. You have half of the future HOF's from the previous recent generation and some current from high school. Your biggest star came out of high school and you tell me this is about $$$. Money for who? It's not the players. I wish some posters would shut the hell up if they don't know what they are talking about. I think we should have a ban on all non-Black people having an opinion on what is about racism. It's clear, they don't have a damn clue. An absolutely utterly disgusting post by thelead.

Say something about Hispanics in a group even if their name isn't mention like immigration and they will call it out ASAP. But about Blacks, it's not about race, it's about ____ (fill in the damn blank)

You clearly need a history lesson if you think people of african descent are the only group that have experienced "racism"

[ALL HAIL]

Breaking news: Systematic White supremacy effects all Black people, not just low-income households. That's a nonsensical take from my analysis and one that wasn't made.

There are hundreds of thousands of people that get laid off each year, regardless of the color of skin or educational level, because their jobs were outsourced to foreign countries because of relatively cheap labor.

Once again, we are talking about NBA players who are primarily Black. Who are not poor. Which comes to my next point? Why would you come to a conclusion we are talking about poor people when we are talking about Black people as a whole?

Next, why would you bring up unemployed general population when we are talking about systematic white supremacy, are you going for the odd deflection having nothing to do which the point being mentioned.

What's next? I will ask you a question like who is the best Laker and you will say, "well I liked the game Oscar Robertson had v. the Lakers in 1960 and he played a great game. I love Oscar, don't you."

Ken, your message is like a T-Bone steak right now, and some of these dudes have their jaws wired shut ... you may need to puree that steak so they can swallow it.

[King Ken]

I'm not white, have personally experienced racism, and find this statement stupid. This ish has NOTHING to do with race and ALL to do with $$$$.

Please tell me how it is stupid? This has everything to do with race. EVERYTHING. You have half of the future HOF's from the previous recent generation and some current from high school. Your biggest star came out of high school and you tell me this is about $$$. Money for who? It's not the players. I wish some posters would shut the hell up if they don't know what they are talking about. I think we should have a ban on all non-Black people having an opinion on what is about racism. It's clear, they don't have a damn clue. An absolutely utterly disgusting post by thelead.

Say something about Hispanics in a group even if their name isn't mention like immigration and they will call it out ASAP. But about Blacks, it's not about race, it's about ____ (fill in the damn blank)

You clearly need a history lesson if you think blacks are the only group that has experienced "racism"

It's clear we aren't. That's unquestionable. What's clear is, anytime racism effects Black people and it's economics, other non-Blacks always side with white people. That's noted and documented. Therefore, shut the hell up on the racism Blacks go through. As I mentioned, if we are talking immigration and someone says something off the wall, Hispanics even if they aren't mentioned by name will be the first to call you out and call you racist and true be told is usually correct. But let it be Black folks, ya'll be siding with White folks like some suckers. Part of the reason, I refuse to be called a minority. Call us Black, Africans, etc but don't call us minorities. Pay us as Black/African/Melanoid because the minute it's something bad, all Black folks are black but when it's time to give money to Blacks, you give it to minorities which is every damn body and Blacks get the scraps.

[JB1089]

The only real purpose of going to college is to get your degree. Why are we making people who have NO intention of graduating go to college?

Because college basketball and football make the NCAA billions of dollars and professional leagues get a free development system.

Minor baseball pre-dates the NCAA. The NBA and NFL never had an incentive to create their own minor leagues and it would be impossible for an independent startup league to compete with the resources of the NCAA and their unwritten agreements with the major leagues.

[Modulate]

It's funny, because, for many, race should never, ever be mentioned ... for anything--like ever.

It's so bad these days that just the mere mention of race has been minimized to a poker game--"playing the race card".

Discrimination through various forms of pigeon-holing exists my friends, whether you want to admit it or not. It's very, very real.

And for the record, as a fan of the game who wants the product to be at its best, I'm in favor of the age limit. Hell, I'd want it to be three years out of high school if it were up to me, but, if I were a player, I COMPLETELY understand the notion that an age limit is un-American and freedom wrenching.

Also though, in an age of veterans being undervalued and ushered out of the league at younger and younger ages, why does the NBAPA concern themselves with eighteen year olds? Why don't they focus their efforts more on protecting veterans and their right to play profitably into their thirties in favor of their teenage counterparts?

The more teenagers are allowed to enter this league, the less jobs will be available for seasoned veterans.

Honestly, if I've learned anything from the Internet over the years, it's if you want to see white people completely lose their ****, just mention race. That's it. Do that and they will coming running from all directions in a frothing, ultra-defensive mass of hysteria. I'm not even quite sure how or why it happens but it never ceases to amaze me.

[ALL HAIL]

I'm not white, have personally experienced racism, and find this statement stupid. This ish has NOTHING to do with race and ALL to do with $$$$.

Please tell me how it is stupid? This has everything to do with race. EVERYTHING. You have half of the future HOF's from the previous recent generation and some current from high school. Your biggest star came out of high school and you tell me this is about $$$. Money for who? It's not the players. I wish some posters would shut the hell up if they don't know what they are talking about. I think we should have a ban on all non-Black people having an opinion on what is about racism. It's clear, they don't have a damn clue. An absolutely utterly disgusting post by thelead.

Say something about Hispanics in a group even if their name isn't mention like immigration and they will call it out ASAP. But about Blacks, it's not about race, it's about ____ (fill in the damn blank)

You clearly need a history lesson if you think people of african descent are the only group that have experienced "racism"

What Ken is saying is that MOST white people have absolutely NO idea how to relate to "systematic" pigeonholing.

Many want to be able to relate, many try, but in order to have any chance at truly understanding the many glass ceilings involved with being Black, White people have to humble themselves to the 500 year plight of Blacks in this land.

I'm sure you don't want to hear that though.

[Ruckusmh]

I think that for the owners this is more about wanting to be able to project players better. College gives them an environment to scout the players much better. The NCAA is a horrible horrible organization that absolutely takes advantage of the kids.

I'd be very interested in setting up a minor-league system of sorts, but if you do that you have to make all 18 year olds draft eligible like they are in baseball. (Basically, even if a player would like to attend college, the team that drafted them at 18 would still own their draft rights)

I'd like to see the D-league used in a 1-1 team ratio with the NBA as well as having a bit more money for salaries so that those who are playing in it aren't struggling to make ends meet.

Ultimately, the real reason I don't want more 18 year olds in the NBA is because they tend to suck at basketball. Nothing more, nothing less. (Of course, a minor league system where players are still PAID seems far preferable to the current one)

[thelead]

Please tell me how it is stupid? This has everything to do with race. EVERYTHING. You have half of the future HOF's from the previous recent generation and some current from high school. Your biggest star came out of high school and you tell me this is about $$$. Money for who? It's not the players. I wish some posters would shut the hell up if they don't know what they are talking about. I think we should have a ban on all non-Black people having an opinion on what is about racism. It's clear, they don't have a damn clue. An absolutely utterly disgusting post by thelead.

Say something about Hispanics in a group even if their name isn't mention like immigration and they will call it out ASAP. But about Blacks, it's not about race, it's about ____ (fill in the damn blank)

You clearly need a history lesson if you think blacks are the only group that has experienced "racism"

It's clear we aren't. That's unquestionable. What's clear is, anytime racism effects Black people and it's economics, other non-Blacks always side with white people. That's noted and documented. Therefore, shut the hell up on the racism Blacks go through. As I mentioned, if we are talking immigration and someone says something off the wall, Hispanics even if they aren't mentioned by name will be the first to call you out and call you racist and true be told is usually correct. But let it be Black folks, ya'll be siding with White folks like some suckers. Part of the reason, I refuse to be called a minority. Call us Black, Africans, etc but don't call us minorities. Pay us as Black/African/Melanoid because the minute it's something bad, all Black folks are black but when it's time to give money to Blacks, you give it to minorities which is every damn body and Blacks get the scraps.

Listen, I get it but not everything is a Black vs the world issue. Maybe I'm a bit less jaded growing up in a less racist world than some around here but I just don't see it the way you do. We'll have to agree to disagree. I respect your position, I just don't agree with it.

[ALL HAIL]

It's funny, because, for many, race should never, ever be mentioned ... for anything--like ever.

It's so bad these days that just the mere mention of race has been minimized to a poker game--"playing the race card".

Discrimination through various forms of pigeon-holing exists my friends, whether you want to admit it or not. It's very, very real.

And for the record, as a fan of the game who wants the product to be at its best, I'm in favor of the age limit. Hell, I'd want it to be three years out of high school if it were up to me, but, if I were a player, I COMPLETELY understand the notion that an age limit is un-American and freedom wrenching.

Also though, in an age of veterans being undervalued and ushered out of the league at younger and younger ages, why does the NBAPA concern themselves with eighteen year olds? Why don't they focus their efforts more on protecting veterans and their right to play profitably into their thirties in favor of their teenage counterparts?

The more teenagers are allowed to enter this league, the less jobs will be available for seasoned veterans.

Honestly, if I've learned anything from the Internet over the years, it's if you want to see white people completely lose their ****, just mention race. That's it. Do that and they will coming running from all directions in a frothing, ultra-defensive mass of hysteria. I'm not even quite sure how or why it happens but it never ceases to amaze me.

Damn, very well said.

Many white people are sooooo afraid to speak about race out in the open that when they finally get "forums" to express themselves, they, often wildly, share their opinions in a manner that lends itself to a pipe bursting after years of over pressurization.

[thelead]

Please tell me how it is stupid? This has everything to do with race. EVERYTHING. You have half of the future HOF's from the previous recent generation and some current from high school. Your biggest star came out of high school and you tell me this is about $$$. Money for who? It's not the players. I wish some posters would shut the hell up if they don't know what they are talking about. I think we should have a ban on all non-Black people having an opinion on what is about racism. It's clear, they don't have a damn clue. An absolutely utterly disgusting post by thelead.

Say something about Hispanics in a group even if their name isn't mention like immigration and they will call it out ASAP. But about Blacks, it's not about race, it's about ____ (fill in the damn blank)

You clearly need a history lesson if you think people of african descent are the only group that have experienced "racism"

What Ken is saying is that MOST white people have absolutely NO idea how to relate to "systematic" pigeonholing.

Many want to be able to relate, many try, but in order to have any chance at truly understanding the many glass ceilings involved with being Black, White people have to humble themselves to the 500 year plight of Blacks in this land.

I'm sure you don't want to hear that though.

I can respect that. I just don't think THIS issue is a race issue. That's all.