The Tobias Harris Situation

[shinoff2183]

As I said before, the hiding was just an example. Even if it is true that Harris is good at suppressing shots (which is a valuable skill), it doesn't answer the question "is he a good defender?". The only way to answer that is to see what impact does he have on the team's overall defense. Because that's what ultimately matters. If your guy never scores, but your team does worse with you on the floor anyway, then it's a Pyrrhic victory.

not having horrible post defense is more important than Harris defense, and our post defense was abysmal. our team lost when Harris was on the floor and when he wasnt. But i believe we had a better winning % with him than without him.

I beg to differ , I really think it was more split. Meaning it made no difference. I started to look into it but said f it, I had to go to work. but it seemed split.

[floppymoose]

seems as most players with high drpm are on good teams

Most good players are on good teams. There is a reason for the correlation.

I mean well I thought most considered andrew wiggins a good defender yet he is right next to harris on drpm on an equally bad team

Rookies, even ones with defensive talents, usually don't end up as plus defenders the first year.

[Gordon]

Cannot let him walk for nothing. He is young and still have time to improve some parts of his game, even if he doesn`t pan out his contract should be tradeable when cap rises.

[fendilim]

Cannot let him walk for nothing. He is young and still have time to improve some parts of his game, even if he doesn`t pan out his contract should be tradeable when cap rises.

Exactly. It would be stupid to let him walk for nothing. At least a sign and trade. IMO.

[J the Drafter]

Harris had a bit of a down year thanks to his injuries and the death of his grandfather. Harris was injured last year as well. I think the big question is "are those injuries bad luck or is Harris injury-prone?" I can't answer that (though it's worth noting that he blamed last year's high ankle sprain on not having shoes that gave ankle support). When Harris is healthy he looks amazing. The only reason not to bring him back is if his injury history is too concerning.

[MitchellUK]

Cannot let him walk for nothing. He is young and still have time to improve some parts of his game, even if he doesn`t pan out his contract should be tradeable when cap rises.

Exactly. It would be stupid to let him walk for nothing. At least a sign and trade. IMO.

Agreed. I'd avoid a sign and trade if possible (you're not going to get much back). As long as he's not getting absolute max offers, match anything.

I really don't understand the amount of dislike for him on this board at times. He's only just about to turn 23, he's probably the best natural scorer we have on this team. Defense needs work, but that's for Scott Skiles to work on. If you look at his stats, he ranked third on the team in PPG, but was more efficient than both Victor and Nik. He takes good care of the ball (lowest TO% on the entire team). He's a decent rebounder. He ranked third in WS/48, behind Vuc and Dedmon but far ahead of Victor, AG, Fournier, Frye and Elf.

I know stats aren't the be all and end all, but we have a very talented young man on this roster, and the amount of people who seem to be willing (or want) to just let him walk is surprising.

[Neon1]

Harris had a bit of a down year thanks to his injuries and the death of his grandfather. Harris was injured last year as well. I think the big question is "are those injuries bad luck or is Harris injury-prone?" I can't answer that (though it's worth noting that he blamed last year's high ankle sprain on not having shoes that gave ankle support). When Harris is healthy he looks amazing. The only reason not to bring him back is if his injury history is too concerning.

Down year?? How did he have a down year? As a starter he put up:

35.6mpg 17.6ppg 6.5rpg 1.9apg 1.06spg 0.67bpg while shooting 47.4% 37.3% 78.9% with a TS% of 55.9 and a USG% of only 22.6

He also averaged 1.245 points per true shot attempts (points/(fga+fta/2) which made him the best true scorer on the team by a VERY significant margin. Vuc (1.087), Evan (1.076) then Vic (1.037).

Jacque purposely benched him to **** with his role after injury and was playing him 25mpg which makes him have to force/rush his offense before getting pulled.

Jacque benched him the last 5 games (we lost them all) when he knee he was getting fired.

[Optimus_Steel]

There is no reason to let talent walk out the door like that with nothing to show for it. I feel we will match.

[Driguez]

We can't S&T Harris -_- We either match or we don't. No trading.

[tiderulz]

We can't S&T Harris -_- We either match or we don't. No trading.

why cant we? we just cant S&T the 5 year total max contract. we could for any offer he could get from another team

[eyriq]

Harris had a bit of a down year thanks to his injuries and the death of his grandfather. Harris was injured last year as well. I think the big question is "are those injuries bad luck or is Harris injury-prone?" I can't answer that (though it's worth noting that he blamed last year's high ankle sprain on not having shoes that gave ankle support). When Harris is healthy he looks amazing. The only reason not to bring him back is if his injury history is too concerning.

I have never watched him play and thought to myself damn this guy is a super star in the making. He lacks elite physical tools, which limits his defense at the 4, and he lacks elite athleticism which limits his defense at the 3. his production was starter caliber, and his defense was D League caliber. Which is pretty much where I value him, as a quality starter with serious red flags about defense and team fit.

[The Other Ankle]

Now you've really got me curious. Who are SF's 1-20 in your opinion?

I'll throw out a list of how I see the SF's next year. this is rough and I'm not sure about how some of them will bounce back from injuries etc:

This just became a huge waste of time.

You're right. This thread was totally worthwhile right up to page 104. But at page 105 it totally jumped the shark!

THE TOBIAS HARRIS non-SITUATION!!!

[mojosodope]

Harris had a bit of a down year thanks to his injuries and the death of his grandfather. Harris was injured last year as well. I think the big question is "are those injuries bad luck or is Harris injury-prone?" I can't answer that (though it's worth noting that he blamed last year's high ankle sprain on not having shoes that gave ankle support). When Harris is healthy he looks amazing. The only reason not to bring him back is if his injury history is too concerning.

I have never watched him play and thought to myself damn this guy is a super star in the making. He lacks elite physical tools, which limits his defense at the 4, and he lacks elite athleticism which limits his defense at the 3. his production was starter caliber, and his defense was D League caliber. Which is pretty much where I value him, as a quality starter with serious red flags about defense and team fit.

Seriously?

I get that you don't like Harris, but this is absurd

[Last Guardian]

Tobias is nice I don't mind him but I would not match a huge offer for him. Getting nothing for him would suck but saving that money would mean a lot as well.

[tiderulz]

I'm getting to the point now that i hope Harris goes somewhere else and takes that next step of development, which at only 22 is coming, and we here all the same people that want to jettison him now, wonder why we didnt keep him.

I want the Magic to win, but i'm glad Henny does his homework fully and makes smart decisions, not blindly releasing players. I hope everyone realizes that Dipo will "want" a max contract extension too in a year, and so on and so on.

[tooler]

I'm getting to the point now that i hope Harris goes somewhere else and takes that next step of development, which at only 22 is coming, and we here all the same people that want to jettison him now, wonder why we didnt keep him.

You should be less spiteful and stop feeding the haters.

[tiderulz]

I'm getting to the point now that i hope Harris goes somewhere else and takes that next step of development, which at only 22 is coming, and we here all the same people that want to jettison him now, wonder why we didnt keep him.

You should be less spiteful and stop feeding the haters.

its not spiteful. just let people see what happens when we let young, talented players just walk out the door, apparently because we didnt draft him or something. Vuc has worse defense than Harris at a more critical position, but seems to get a pass. Dipo is better defensively, but much worse offensively, and will improve while being older than Harris who apparently will never get any better than he is now, but seems to get a pass.

And apparently Gordon will be a star, even though at he looks like a 3 & D player at best right now.

[orthoman]

Most of you guys are so high on Henny....I'm sick of the attitude alot of you guys have, such as "I'n Henny We Trust"...
Well, if you guys are so high on Henny then why are we even having this discussion of Harris? Are you guys losing
sleep at night that we'd let him walk, for nothing? Surely, our GM would not let that happen? If Harris walks away,
how will alot of you feel about our GM, then....has he then earned his millions? All he has to do is BE BRILLIANT and
sign Harris a check, from the Magic organization, not his personal checkbook...is this difficult?

It was a mistake not to have already resigned him...admit it.

Write the guy a g**d*** check for $15 M and be done with it...move on with Henny's organic approach...he's
arguably our best player. If Henny lets him walk I see it as a monumental blunder of our GM.

[fendilim]

Most of you guys are so high on Henny....I'm sick of the attitude alot of you guys have, such as "I'n Henny We Trust"...
Well, if you guys are so high on Henny then why are we even having this discussion of Harris? Are you guys losing
sleep at night that we'd let him walk, for nothing? Surely, our GM would not let that happen. If Harris walks away,
how will alot of you feel about our GM, then....has he then earned his millions? All he has to do is BE BRILLIANT and
sign Harris a check, from the Magic organization, not his personal checkbook...is this difficult?

It was a mistake not to have already resigned him...admit it.

While, I agree that it is a mistake that we opted the market to dictate Tobes value, I think you're missing the point of being on a discussion forum if you can't discuss things like these.

[mojosodope]

Most of you guys are so high on Henny....I'm sick of the attitude alot of you guys have, such as "I'n Henny We Trust"...
Well, if you guys are so high on Henny then why are we even having this discussion of Harris? Are you guys losing
sleep at night that we'd let him walk, for nothing? Surely, our GM would not let that happen. If Harris walks away,
how will alot of you feel about our GM, then....has he then earned his millions? All he has to do is BE BRILLIANT and
sign Harris a check, from the Magic organization, not his personal checkbook...is this difficult?

It was a mistake not to have already resigned him...admit it.

This is what the Henny fans can't come to grip with. They don't want to admit it but "The Tobias Harris situation" kind of exposes Henny. If we match a max or near max deal then we should have extended him for less, if we let him walk, we lose an asset for nothing. If we pull off a S&T we get very little value for him.

Not to mention, he could end up on a team that stands in the way of us making the playoffs