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Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs

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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#101 » by Blackification » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:41 pm

bwgood77 wrote:Before free agency started, Aldridge wasn't even on my radar as a Suns realistic target. I even had a poll in the Around the NBA thread with the 10 most likely (imo) scenarios of where the top free agents would end up. I had SA or Dallas in every possible scenario for him.

Just knowing that we were firmly ahead of LA, NY, Houston AND Dallas is something I don't think I can ever recall thinking as a Suns fan. I think McD is top notch in courting guys and drafting. He has made a few mistakes over the last year but he has quickly fixed them. I'm really impressed with this offseason. We were MUCH closer to getting Aldridge than I ever would have dreamed.

I don't think there are many more savvy front offices at this point.

Now that I think of it, even though I have since deleted the poll, I think like 8 of the 10 people picked that Aldridge would end up in SA, Jordan in Dallas and Gasol back to Memphis.

There is no one who can go back and say that before the off season started we would be neck and neck with san antonio fighting for the best free agent on the market. McD put us in that position out of no where.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#102 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:41 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
tgtm_24 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Before free agency started, Aldridge wasn't even on my radar as a Suns realistic target. I even had a poll in the Around the NBA thread with the 10 most likely (imo) scenarios of where the top free agents would end up. I had SA or Dallas in every possible scenario for him.

Just knowing that we were firmly ahead of LA, NY, Houston AND Dallas is something I don't think I can ever recall thinking as a Suns fan. I think McD is top notch in courting guys and drafting. He has made a few mistakes over the last year but he has quickly fixed them. I'm really impressed with this offseason. We were MUCH closer to getting Aldridge than I ever would have dreamed.

I don't think there are many more savvy front offices at this point.


That may fly for this off-season, but if we stand pat and hold our space for next off-season an finish an honourable second in trying to secure a prized FA, then what? So far the FO, has put things in motion but has had to change paths relatively quickly into those decisions, (Thomas signing, MoBros separation). Sure not all of the outcome was their own doing, but right here, right now, what do we have to show for our last 5 seasons?


Well big name FAs VERY rarely change teams. There are usually only 2-4 per year that are free agents and maybe 1-2 change teams. I think it depends on how Warren, Len and Booker turn out. But I'm not disappointed in any of those guys so far. I think most of the trades have been solid too, if not all of them. The Knight one was the riskiest, but that remains to be seen. It's just too early to tell how good Most of McD's picks and that trade was...all the other trades were solid imo.




People upset at the front office don't need to look any further than Dallas, they've been striking out on top free agents for awhile before finally locking up Jordan this year. Its not an easy thing to do, the Suns just being in the conversation for Aldridge will help them over the long term, even if it sucks now.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#103 » by tgtm_24 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:47 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
tgtm_24 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Before free agency started, Aldridge wasn't even on my radar as a Suns realistic target. I even had a poll in the Around the NBA thread with the 10 most likely (imo) scenarios of where the top free agents would end up. I had SA or Dallas in every possible scenario for him.

Just knowing that we were firmly ahead of LA, NY, Houston AND Dallas is something I don't think I can ever recall thinking as a Suns fan. I think McD is top notch in courting guys and drafting. He has made a few mistakes over the last year but he has quickly fixed them. I'm really impressed with this offseason. We were MUCH closer to getting Aldridge than I ever would have dreamed.

I don't think there are many more savvy front offices at this point.


That may fly for this off-season, but if we stand pat and hold our space for next off-season an finish an honourable second in trying to secure a prized FA, then what? So far the FO, has put things in motion but has had to change paths relatively quickly into those decisions, (Thomas signing, MoBros separation). Sure not all of the outcome was their own doing, but right here, right now, what do we have to show for our last 5 seasons?


Well big name FAs VERY rarely change teams. There are usually only 2-4 per year that are free agents and maybe 1-2 change teams. I think it depends on how Warren, Len and Booker turn out. But I'm not disappointed in any of those guys so far. I think most of the trades have been solid too, if not all of them. The Knight one was the riskiest, but that remains to be seen. It's just too early to tell how good Most of McD's picks and that trade was...all the other trades were solid imo.


I agree with you. I just don't want everyone wrapping up the FO because we nearly signed Aldridge. I'm frustrated like many of us with how well we played two seasons ago and took such a big step back last year. For now, it just has to be developing our young guys. That's our ace in the hole. Natural improvement. Start Kieff. Play Len and Chandler together. Drum into this squad that unless they bring 100% effort on every play they are a very ordinary squad, however play with something to prove and who knows, those playoffs might just be a chance.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#104 » by AtheJ415 » Sat Jul 4, 2015 11:53 pm

JTrain wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:I don't need to. I can head over to a Pelicans board and ask them what they think of Asik, as I have seen ALL season whenever I check their boards.

We know that our back court is still one of the best in basketball. It's no stretch to say that. It's not as if we haven't seen them play the game of basketball before. We have seen them separately enough to know they are good players. And that still doesn't address that judging any team by its worst 3 starters looks bad except for 2 or 3 teams in the entire league. In fact, going back historically to some of the great teams would have ridiculous results. It's just a truly awful premise.


"I don't need to. I can head over to a Pelicans board and ask them what they think of Asik"

So are you now saying you are referring only to Pelican fans instead of people with eyes? You have shifted the goalposts.

"We know that our back court is still one of the best in basketball."

No, we don't know any such thing. We have two good but not great players that so far have a losing record when playing together and negative net points when playing together.

"judging any team by its worst 3 starters looks bad except for 2 or 3 teams"

False. There are at least 15 teams whose worst starting three look nothing close to as dismal as ours. In fact, only two teams in the West (Lakers and Timberwolves) are close. Also, a few teams that do have a bad "worst three" have a top 20-type superstar player among the other two, which we lack.

I'm glad to look over any empirical data supporting any point you are trying to make, but mere assertions ("We know...", "Anybody with eyes...") don't do much for me.



No. I am saying people who watch him the most are the best judges, and they all hated him. All year.

Yes. We do. You just are one of those people who thinks that we don't know anything that hasn't actually happened on the court yet despite all basic logic. So you admit that Chris Paul and James Harden wouldn't be the best back court in basketball? After all, they haven't had an opportunity to show it? Or maybe we can just know that they are good players who compliment each other and therefore would be great together.

Show me those 15. I'd like to see them. Your entire premise is faulty. Just because i can find bad statistics (and yes, PER is a bad stat when there are better ones out there) to support it doesn't mean crap because it doesn't contain causality and leaves a huge part of the team (40% of the starters, the entire bench, the coach) off the table. I can statistically prove pirates prevent global warming. It would be as useful as what you've posited here.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#105 » by thamadkant » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:00 am

Gallinari + Stoudemire = IN
Morris + Tucker = OUT

PROS:
- Veterans, shooter + mid range. Leadership improvement.
- Short term contracts.

CONS:
- Older
- Lose out on perimeter defense


Overall
Suns will rely on Bledsoe, Chandler and hopefully from Goodwin/Len/Warren for defense.
But offensively and "fit", improves... analytics improves too due to Suns improving their 3pt + at the rim/inside scoring, reducing the mid range reliance.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#106 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:00 am

I just realized if i want to watch Stanley Johnson this year I will also probably be watching Marcus Morris. Awesome.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#107 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:03 am

1UPZ wrote:Gallinari + Stoudemire = IN
Morris + Tucker = OUT

PROS:
- Veterans, shooter + mid range. Leadership improvement.
- Short term contracts.

CONS:
- Older
- Lose out on perimeter defense


Overall
Suns will rely on Bledsoe, Chandler and hopefully from Goodwin/Len/Warren for defense.
But offensively and "fit", improves... analytics improves too due to Suns improving their 3pt + at the rim/inside scoring, reducing the mid range reliance.


Well one thing I can tell you. Most any (if not all) team(s) would trade Gallinari for Markieff and every team would trade Amare for Tucker, so you've at least finally presented trades the other teams would do.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#108 » by Fo-Real » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:06 am

RAY RAY... any chatter on other bigs to come in or if Kief has to be traded?
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#109 » by Flying Colors » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:07 am

Qwigglez wrote:
Flying Colors wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:I say we call the Bulls and trade Kieff, Cleveland 1st for Pau Gasol. And if need be, add the 2017 Miami pick.
Why do the Bulls do it? They got Pau/Gibson/Mirotic all expiring in two years. Mirotic is gonna demand 8 figures, Gibson might ask for 8-9mil a year too. They won't have room to keep all three. Rose also expires, and I doubt they let him leave despite how injury-prone he is. Snell also expires then. Last but not least, the Cavs have the East dominated for the next two (probably 4) years.
I know Pau doesn't want to play for the Suns, but he's very professional. He stuck it out with Kobe for a long friggin team. And I think he'll like playing with Tyson Chandler. Chandler/Pau would be possibly the best mentors for Len too. Chandler teaches him defense while Pau teaches him offense.

For backup PF's, sure we can go after Bargnani if ya'll want. But I'd rather get Amare.

that sounds awful to me



Sorry didn't realize 18.5 points, 12 boards, and 2 blocks a game was awful. No matter the age those are amazing numbers. Pau's also on a 7.5mil contract.

trading a young guy who is still one the upswing and two first round picks for someone who is about to turn 35 in 2 days sounds like a unnecessary move, now if he could be had for less then i wouldn't mind it
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#110 » by SunsFanSSOL » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:11 am

I wouldn't mind Gallinari. The connection is there with Booker.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#111 » by RaisingArizona » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:17 am

Qwigglez wrote:I say we call the Bulls and trade Kieff, Cleveland 1st for Pau Gasol. And if need be, add the 2017 Miami pick.
Why do the Bulls do it? They got Pau/Gibson/Mirotic all expiring in two years. Mirotic is gonna demand 8 figures, Gibson might ask for 8-9mil a year too. They won't have room to keep all three. Rose also expires, and I doubt they let him leave despite how injury-prone he is. Snell also expires then. Last but not least, the Cavs have the East dominated for the next two (probably 4) years.
I know Pau doesn't want to play for the Suns, but he's very professional. He stuck it out with Kobe for a long friggin team. And I think he'll like playing with Tyson Chandler. Chandler/Pau would be possibly the best mentors for Len too. Chandler teaches him defense while Pau teaches him offense.

For backup PF's, sure we can go after Bargnani if ya'll want. But I'd rather get Amare.


Gross. Just gross, everything you said was just terrible.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#112 » by SkinnyOMiller » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:20 am

ginobiliflops wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:I say we call the Bulls and trade Kieff, Cleveland 1st for Pau Gasol. And if need be, add the 2017 Miami pick.
Why do the Bulls do it? They got Pau/Gibson/Mirotic all expiring in two years. Mirotic is gonna demand 8 figures, Gibson might ask for 8-9mil a year too. They won't have room to keep all three. Rose also expires, and I doubt they let him leave despite how injury-prone he is. Snell also expires then. Last but not least, the Cavs have the East dominated for the next two (probably 4) years.
I know Pau doesn't want to play for the Suns, but he's very professional. He stuck it out with Kobe for a long friggin team. And I think he'll like playing with Tyson Chandler. Chandler/Pau would be possibly the best mentors for Len too. Chandler teaches him defense while Pau teaches him offense.

For backup PF's, sure we can go after Bargnani if ya'll want. But I'd rather get Amare.


Gross. Just gross, everything you said was just terrible.



I'm not understanding the upside of Gasol over just keeping Morris AND the draft picks. The whole "he's going to mentor Len" thing is incredibly overrated, that is what the coaching staff is there for and if that isn't sufficient, Portland just fired what is, by all respects, a pretty good big man coach.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#113 » by Qwigglez » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:20 am

Flying Colors wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
Flying Colors wrote:that sounds awful to me



Sorry didn't realize 18.5 points, 12 boards, and 2 blocks a game was awful. No matter the age those are amazing numbers. Pau's also on a 7.5mil contract.

trading a young guy who is still one the upswing and two first round picks for someone who is about to turn 35 in 2 days sounds like a unnecessary move, now if he could be had for less then i wouldn't mind it


You could probably cut out the picks and add two 2nd rounders. You gotta give up assets in order to get some.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#114 » by RaisingArizona » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:23 am

Gasol is way too freaking old to trade for. We struck out on Aldridge but it's not time to panic and trade in Kieff for pennies on the dollar. People here are speculating way too much on how he'll react to Marcus being gone.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#115 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:30 am

SunsFanSSOL wrote:I wouldn't mind Gallinari. The connection is there with Booker.


What is the connection?
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Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#116 » by matt131 » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:33 am

bwgood77 wrote:
SunsFanSSOL wrote:I wouldn't mind Gallinari. The connection is there with Booker.


What is the connection?


It's near the end of this article:
http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/kentucky-wildcats-devin-booker-melvin-booker-ncaa-tournament-031315


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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#117 » by SunsFanSSOL » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:36 am

bwgood77 wrote:
SunsFanSSOL wrote:I wouldn't mind Gallinari. The connection is there with Booker.


What is the connection?


His dad Melvin Booker played with Gallinari in Italy, and Devin lived him in Italy for a little while. DBook mentioned it a few times in his press conference.

Devin watched practices. He got to hang with players. He got to play one-on-one with one of his dad's teammates, future NBA player Danilo Gallinari. And most importantly, for the first time in his life, he got to see his dad play pro basketball in person.


http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/kentucky-wildcats-devin-booker-melvin-booker-ncaa-tournament-031315?vid=412638275859
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#118 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:44 am

SunsFanSSOL wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
SunsFanSSOL wrote:I wouldn't mind Gallinari. The connection is there with Booker.


What is the connection?


His dad Melvin Booker played with Gallinari in Italy, and Devin lived him in Italy for a little while. DBook mentioned it a few times in his press conference.

Devin watched practices. He got to hang with players. He got to play one-on-one with one of his dad's teammates, future NBA player Danilo Gallinari. And most importantly, for the first time in his life, he got to see his dad play pro basketball in person.


http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/kentucky-wildcats-devin-booker-melvin-booker-ncaa-tournament-031315?vid=412638275859


That was an awesome article...matt131 posted it and I read it and also put it on the Pistons board. I don't know if that was posted here or not, but if it wasn't, it should have been. Good stuff. Thanks.
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Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#119 » by Nando88 » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:49 am

Damn I feel old when our newest draft pick's dad was once gallinari's teammate


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Re: Suns Offseason Thread 3: Spurned for the Spurs 

Post#120 » by blacksun » Sun Jul 5, 2015 12:52 am

Kieff should stay IMO. Its just a matter of rounding out the roster with the right guys and trying to establish a winning culture.

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