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What would you pay to keep Jennings?

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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#21 » by Cowology » Fri Jan 8, 2016 8:48 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
mattao313 wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:I'd go $13 million per. And what's with the "if RJ and BJ can play together" uncertainty? Why wouldn't these two be able to play together?

Probably cause of their defensive deficiency and both are ball dominate players.

Does anyone not realize that Jackson played majority of his career sharing the court with Westbrook and actually did well off the ball? Also does anyone not remember a backcourt of Jennings and Ellis actually led their team to the playoffs? The whole ball dominant thing doesn’t fly. Jackson is only ball dominant when they're running the pnr constantly. Then there's other times when the starters go against doing the pnr exclusively and Jackson gives the ball up much earlier in the offensive set. Jennings doesn't really dominate the ball. He tries to find shooters very early in the offense.

Each guy is more than passable at hitting shots off the kickout, so if one PG is attacking and the other ends up with a shot off ball movement, that ball dominant bs goes out the window. Either guy can knock em down. This ain't exactly Stuckey/Iverson where both guys are pretty useless off the ball.

And the concern defensively goes out the window when you're up against another 2 pg lineup. Or you're up against a unit with a SG that really doesn't have a physical advantage over RJ (there's literally no reason you can't use it against Conley/Allen for example). Hell when Meeks comes back we're ready to pair Jennings/Meeks off the bench. Not sure how that tandem is better defensively than Jackson/Jennings.

Somebody pay this man. He's doing work.
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#22 » by DetroitSho » Fri Jan 8, 2016 9:00 pm

Cowology wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:
mattao313 wrote:Probably cause of their defensive deficiency and both are ball dominate players.

Does anyone not realize that Jackson played majority of his career sharing the court with Westbrook and actually did well off the ball? Also does anyone not remember a backcourt of Jennings and Ellis actually led their team to the playoffs? The whole ball dominant thing doesn’t fly. Jackson is only ball dominant when they're running the pnr constantly. Then there's other times when the starters go against doing the pnr exclusively and Jackson gives the ball up much earlier in the offensive set. Jennings doesn't really dominate the ball. He tries to find shooters very early in the offense.

Each guy is more than passable at hitting shots off the kickout, so if one PG is attacking and the other ends up with a shot off ball movement, that ball dominant bs goes out the window. Either guy can knock em down. This ain't exactly Stuckey/Iverson where both guys are pretty useless off the ball.

And the concern defensively goes out the window when you're up against another 2 pg lineup. Or you're up against a unit with a SG that really doesn't have a physical advantage over RJ (there's literally no reason you can't use it against Conley/Allen for example). Hell when Meeks comes back we're ready to pair Jennings/Meeks off the bench. Not sure how that tandem is better defensively than Jackson/Jennings.

Somebody pay this man. He's doing work.

*takes bow* lol thank you. And just to add, Jackson just came off a game where he was playing SG defensively all night on a not so easy cover.
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#23 » by mattao313 » Fri Jan 8, 2016 9:04 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
mattao313 wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:I'd go $13 million per. And what's with the "if RJ and BJ can play together" uncertainty? Why wouldn't these two be able to play together?

Probably cause of their defensive deficiency and both are ball dominate players.

Does anyone not realize that Jackson played majority of his career sharing the court with Westbrook and actually did well off the ball? Also does anyone not remember a backcourt of Jennings and Ellis actually led their team to the playoffs? The whole ball dominant thing doesn’t fly. Jackson is only ball dominant when they're running the pnr constantly. Then there's other times when the starters go against doing the pnr exclusively and Jackson gives the ball up much earlier in the offensive set. Jennings doesn't really dominate the ball. He tries to find shooters very early in the offense.

Each guy is more than passable at hitting shots off the kickout, so if one PG is attacking and the other ends up with a shot off ball movement, that ball dominant bs goes out the window. Either guy can knock em down. This ain't exactly Stuckey/Iverson where both guys are pretty useless off the ball.

And the concern defensively goes out the window when you're up against another 2 pg lineup. Or you're up against a unit with a SG that really doesn't have a physical advantage over RJ (there's literally no reason you can't use it against Conley/Allen for example). Hell when Meeks comes back we're ready to pair Jennings/Meeks off the bench. Not sure how that tandem is better defensively than Jackson/Jennings.

The ball dominate thing can be a big issue. Jennigs and Ellis backcourt wasn't good it would turn into a chuckfest just like the brandon Knight and Bledsoe one even tho Knight has the ability to play off ball better than Reggie or Brandon an other example is Harden and lawson. Plus Reggie wasn't great off the ball in OKC but he and Russ was talented enough to play together so it could work in limited min.

Defense is a major issue both Reggie and Jennings are bad defenders it doesn't matter who they are guarding. You can't hide either of them on defense like they do when KCP is out their.

Acting as if these can't be problems is kinda foolish.
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#24 » by Todd3 » Fri Jan 8, 2016 9:17 pm

coordinator0 wrote:
Todd3 wrote:Have to see how he plays with Reggie first. A true 6th man plays starters minutes - just does so off the bench. If we are to give Jennings top 6th man money, he needs to be able to play 25-30 mpg, and the only way to do so is playing some with Reggie every night. Otherwise can't pay him double digit salary just for 15 mpg. So how many minutes we can get out of him will dictate how much I would pay him.

Stan said he doesn't envision the 2 PG look being a regular part of rotation though, so I'm not sure how that is going to work, in terms of getting him enough minutes to validate a big contract if that isn't a regular lineup every night.


Pretty much this. It all depends on how many minutes Jennings can get. I wouldn't mind Detroit going 13-15 million for him if he's in that high 20's per night range, but if all his minutes are only coming as Jackson's backup then it would be tough to see Brandon getting that much.



Exactly
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#25 » by Todd3 » Fri Jan 8, 2016 9:36 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
mattao313 wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:I'd go $13 million per. And what's with the "if RJ and BJ can play together" uncertainty? Why wouldn't these two be able to play together?

Probably cause of their defensive deficiency and both are ball dominate players.

Does anyone not realize that Jackson played majority of his career sharing the court with Westbrook and actually did well off the ball? Also does anyone not remember a backcourt of Jennings and Ellis actually led their team to the playoffs? The whole ball dominant thing doesn’t fly. Jackson is only ball dominant when they're running the pnr constantly. Then there's other times when the starters go against doing the pnr exclusively and Jackson gives the ball up much earlier in the offensive set. Jennings doesn't really dominate the ball. He tries to find shooters very early in the offense.

Each guy is more than passable at hitting shots off the kickout, so if one PG is attacking and the other ends up with a shot off ball movement, that ball dominant bs goes out the window. Either guy can knock em down. This ain't exactly Stuckey/Iverson where both guys are pretty useless off the ball.

And the concern defensively goes out the window when you're up against another 2 pg lineup. Or you're up against a unit with a SG that really doesn't have a physical advantage over RJ (there's literally no reason you can't use it against Conley/Allen for example). Hell when Meeks comes back we're ready to pair Jennings/Meeks off the bench. Not sure how that tandem is better defensively than Jackson/Jennings.


I agree, but does Stan? That is the question.

“We’re already in the thought process of things we can run playing him and Reggie together at times,” Van Gundy said. “There’s a lot of teams that go small. We just want to be ready if we do and try to build in some stuff that fits the two of them so we can get to multiple pick-and-rolls, and we’ll look at that.”

Although Van Gundy said the plan isn’t to play the two together for significant minutes, it just provides another offensive option to pursue. He pointed to the Atlanta Hawks, who utilize Dennis Schroder and Jeff Teague as a tandem to make other teams match up with their speed. The Miami Heat also use Goran Dragic and Dwyane Wade together.

“Having that second playmaker is a good thing. I don’t know when we’ll get to that, but it’s a good option to have,” Van Gundy said. “On the offensive end, it’s really good; it’s then whether you can get the job done on the defensive end. You’re giving up size; can you defend and rebound? Those are the questions.

“Anything that gives you more options and flexibility is good.”


http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2016/01/06/van-gundy-plots-twist-lineup/78390314/

It sounds to me like he isn't sold on it being a regular part of the rotation yet and needs to see it first. So until Stan is sold on it, I'm not sold on paying him that much just to be Reggie's backup. It doesn't matter if we think it can work, if he disagrees and rarely uses them together. If that is going to be the case, I might prefer that money going to someone that he will play more instead. Stan probably agrees. Jennings too (who may not be interested in such a limited role). This needs to play out more before determining dollar amounts, in my opinion.

For the record, I want to resign Jennings and use him like you are suggesting, and would be willing to pay what it costs for him in that role. But if Stan is only going to use him in a limited backup role most nights, then that's a different story.
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#26 » by zeebneeb » Fri Jan 8, 2016 9:47 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:This is probably why just about every team board on RealGM thinks that Jennings can be had for a crap trade or Sign cheap to be their backup PG.

I saw one on the Phoenix board where they actually all agree that Markieff Morris is worth Jennings and 2015 1st Rounder.
Suns fan has been polluted by their own management over there. They are still convincing themselves that just dumping Marcus was a great idea and it had to be done.

Thats self delusion trying to cover for the fact that the whole organization is incompetent. This kieff for Jennings and a first round pick is absolute proof. They think PG's grow on trees and thats because of their coach.

Man what a sad state that team is in.
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#27 » by ComboGuardCity » Fri Jan 8, 2016 10:47 pm

5/75


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Re: RE: Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#28 » by Pharaoh » Sat Jan 9, 2016 12:30 am

Todd3 wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:
mattao313 wrote:Probably cause of their defensive deficiency and both are ball dominate players.

Does anyone not realize that Jackson played majority of his career sharing the court with Westbrook and actually did well off the ball? Also does anyone not remember a backcourt of Jennings and Ellis actually led their team to the playoffs? The whole ball dominant thing doesn’t fly. Jackson is only ball dominant when they're running the pnr constantly. Then there's other times when the starters go against doing the pnr exclusively and Jackson gives the ball up much earlier in the offensive set. Jennings doesn't really dominate the ball. He tries to find shooters very early in the offense.

Each guy is more than passable at hitting shots off the kickout, so if one PG is attacking and the other ends up with a shot off ball movement, that ball dominant bs goes out the window. Either guy can knock em down. This ain't exactly Stuckey/Iverson where both guys are pretty useless off the ball.

And the concern defensively goes out the window when you're up against another 2 pg lineup. Or you're up against a unit with a SG that really doesn't have a physical advantage over RJ (there's literally no reason you can't use it against Conley/Allen for example). Hell when Meeks comes back we're ready to pair Jennings/Meeks off the bench. Not sure how that tandem is better defensively than Jackson/Jennings.


I agree, but does Stan? That is the question.

“We’re already in the thought process of things we can run playing him and Reggie together at times,” Van Gundy said. “There’s a lot of teams that go small. We just want to be ready if we do and try to build in some stuff that fits the two of them so we can get to multiple pick-and-rolls, and we’ll look at that.”

Although Van Gundy said the plan isn’t to play the two together for significant minutes, it just provides another offensive option to pursue. He pointed to the Atlanta Hawks, who utilize Dennis Schroder and Jeff Teague as a tandem to make other teams match up with their speed. The Miami Heat also use Goran Dragic and Dwyane Wade together.

“Having that second playmaker is a good thing. I don’t know when we’ll get to that, but it’s a good option to have,” Van Gundy said. “On the offensive end, it’s really good; it’s then whether you can get the job done on the defensive end. You’re giving up size; can you defend and rebound? Those are the questions.

“Anything that gives you more options and flexibility is good.”


http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2016/01/06/van-gundy-plots-twist-lineup/78390314/

It sounds to me like he isn't sold on it being a regular part of the rotation yet and needs to see it first. So until Stan is sold on it, I'm not sold on paying him that much just to be Reggie's backup. It doesn't matter if we think it can work, if he disagrees and rarely uses them together. If that is going to be the case, I might prefer that money going to someone that he will play more instead. Stan probably agrees. Jennings too (who may not be interested in such a limited role). This needs to play out more before determining dollar amounts, in my opinion.

For the record, I want to resign Jennings and use him like you are suggesting, and would be willing to pay what it costs for him in that role. But if Stan is only going to use him in a limited backup role most nights, then that's a different story.


Based on Stan's comments and common sense I'd pay BJ what he needs to feel respected and valued - because he is!
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#29 » by Blkbrd671 » Sat Jan 9, 2016 12:33 am

if he continues this sort of play and into the playoffs. I'd say whatever it takes to match. idk if i would say the max, but Jennings so far is proving to be a impact player
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#30 » by El Chivo » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:46 am

40x3 with player option third year
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#31 » by Joe Berry » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:22 am

If Jennings and Reggie can't coexist you can't justify giving Jennings 10+mil per season for 15 min per game backup. We will we have to wait and see how this season plays out. If someone offers Jennings a starting gig i think he is gone anyway, but only the Knicks, Nets and maybe Philly have questions-marks at the starting PG right now, almost the whole league has a nice talent or well paid starter at PG, so there might not be a huge interest at all.
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#32 » by Manocad » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:27 pm

4/48 popped immediately into my head when I saw the thread title
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#33 » by mercury » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:06 am

His defense is sub par... At this moment not interested in a large % of the cap going for a questionable health asset.... willing to kick the tires for another month to see if he can have a consistent impact.
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#34 » by tmorgan » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:39 pm

mercury wrote:His defense is sub par... At this moment not interested in a large % of the cap going for a questionable health asset.... willing to kick the tires for another month to see if he can have a consistent impact.


That's not a problem anyway. Jennings isn't going to sign anything until the off-season, as he's going to see what's out there offer-wise first.
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#35 » by Billl » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:26 pm

I'm starting to get the impression that jennings isn't going anywhere. I kinda expected him to say all the right things during rehab, but his attitude since he has come back has been a major plus. He's enthusiastically supporting his teammates and he's playing completely within the offense. Obviously, if someone throws a huge contract at him, that can change someone's mind pretty quickly, but he genuinely looks to be having a good time out there right now.

As far as the contract goes, who knows? Guys are going to get paid this summer. The whole concept of what is a reasonable deal is about to change. His current $8 mil per year is the equivalent of $12 mil under the new structure, so that's probably the minimum to expect.
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#36 » by DetroitPistons » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:15 pm

I would be more than happy if we traded for Markieff and then simply resigned our guys. I think that team could develop into a contender with increased chemistry and internal improvement from our young guys. BJ and SJ would become supersubs to go along with quality role players like Meeks, Tolliver, and Baynes.

Jackson/Jennings
Caldwell-Pope/Meeks
Morris/Johnson
Morris/Tolliver
Drummond/Baynes

Trade for Markieff and throw whatever money is necessary to lock up Drummond, Jennings, and Tolliver long term and call it an offseason. We don't need to hit a home run because that team would be a darkhorse contender next season with plenty of room to grow from within. Also, we would have loads of assets to improve if we don't quite reach contender status.
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Re: What would you pay to keep Jennings? 

Post#37 » by Spider156 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:19 pm

DetroitPistons wrote:I would be more than happy if we traded for Markieff and then simply resigned our guys. I think that team could develop into a contender with increased chemistry and internal improvement from our young guys. BJ and SJ would become supersubs to go along with quality role players like Meeks, Tolliver, and Baynes.

Jackson/Jennings
Caldwell-Pope/Meeks
Morris/Johnson
Morris/Tolliver
Drummond/Baynes

Trade for Markieff and throw whatever money is necessary to lock up Drummond, Jennings, and Tolliver long term and call it an offseason. We don't need to hit a home run because that team would be a darkhorse contender next season with plenty of room to grow from within. Also, we would have loads of assets to improve if we don't quite reach contender status.

Not to mention a first round pick too.
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