Jeff Hornacek Fired

[AtheJ415]

No offense but that video is a great example of having a conclusion and then making up a story how it came to that.

How exactly is Tyson Chandler holding back Len? He is not.
Also LaMarcus Aldridge was very very close to actually being a Sun.

Chandler's not holding back Len. Although we do have a coach who insists on playing Chandler even though Len should be starting imo, but that's not Chandler's fault--it's Jeff's.

[bwgood77]

Ryan can on the sports radio show this morning at 8:45. Had to go in to work so I couldn't hear what he had to say not that it would be anything groundbreaking .

Lol McDonothing with his usual damage control spin, hes gunna get awfully warm sitting on his hands. Admitted that keeping Kieff was his idea and that he has hope that he can still turn it around. Also reiterated that this team isn't as far away as most think because westarted off strong going 7-5

Damn, how long is he going to keep saying we were 7-5? If we finish 15-67, is he going to say "I still don't think we're far off, because of that 7-5 start". You know who we beat in those 7 games? Portland twice, Sacramento without Cousins, the Nuggets, the Lakers and the Clippers without Paul and Griffin got ejected in the second half.

Most of those wins were big wins, and some of our losses in that time at the Clips and vs Detroit and Chicago were all fairly close, so we were competing to some extent, but it kind of fell off the rails with four straight losses and that brutal road trip where we competed but blew a couple of games.

Our roster SUCKS. Gaspar, for one, mentioned how awful this team would be without Markieff and a suitable replacement, and not only did we not really have Markieff, but we had a negative Markieff. That falls largely on the shoulders of McD. Telly and Leuer had some nice moments, but they are hardly starting caliber PFs and our centers are over the hill or injured.

If Bledsoe can't stay healthy this squad is in TERRIBLE shape. Sure Booker looks good, and Warren at times, but outside of that, we have FAR less talent than pretty much every team in the NBA.

To me, most of the blame of the last two seasons falls on McDonough (or Sarver, if he forced these knee jerk moves all the time) and prior to the trade deadline last year, for the year and a half prior to that, this team was playing FAR above their talent.

[bwgood77]

And for point 4, if Jeff did his job in evaluating players and realized his team was low IQ, he would've adjusted his system to become more structured with less reads. Fitting a square peg into a round hole doesn't work. Good coaches don't throw the year away by refusing to adjust their systems based on the personnel they have. Instead, they adapt the system to the strengths of their players. I'm not one who believes our players are just stupid, but for those who do, Jeff is every bit as stupid for not adjusting his system to make it work better. All I wanted to see was improvement. I had low expectations after Bledsoe went down in particular, but Jeff still failed to reach them.

His system DID end up far less structured because he had low iq players. This was fairly obvious. They couldn't even follow his plays when he set something up, or inbounded the ball to the wrong place or not at all.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Ryan can on the sports radio show this morning at 8:45. Had to go in to work so I couldn't hear what he had to say not that it would be anything groundbreaking .

Lol McDonothing with his usual damage control spin, hes gunna get awfully warm sitting on his hands. Admitted that keeping Kieff was his idea and that he has hope that he can still turn it around. Also reiterated that this team isn't as far away as most think because westarted off strong going 7-5

Damn, how long is he going to keep saying we were 7-5? If we finish 15-67, is he going to say "I still don't think we're far off, because of that 7-5 start". You know who we beat in those 7 games? Portland twice, Sacramento without Cousins, the Nuggets, the Lakers and the Clippers without Paul and Griffin got ejected in the second half.

Most of those wins were big wins, and some of our losses in that time at the Clips and vs Detroit and Chicago were all fairly close, so we were competing to some extent, but it kind of fell off the rails with four straight losses and that brutal road trip where we competed but blew a couple of games.

Our roster SUCKS. Gaspar, for one, mentioned how awful this team would be without Markieff and a suitable replacement, and not only did we not really have Markieff, but we had a negative Markieff. That falls largely on the shoulders of McD. Telly and Leuer had some nice moments, but they are hardly starting caliber PFs and our centers are over the hill or injured.

If Bledsoe can't stay healthy this squad is in TERRIBLE shape. Sure Booker looks good, and Warren at times, but outside of that, we have FAR less talent than pretty much every team in the NBA.

To me, most of the blame of the last two seasons falls on McDonough (or Sarver, if he forced these knee jerk moves all the time) and prior to the trade deadline last year, for the year and a half prior to that, this team was playing FAR above their talent.

Isn't this just the latest example of something that has plagued this franchise since Sarver took over? utter lack of self awareness and foresight. One of the most dangerous things you can do as a franchise is not being honest with yourself and were you stand in the pecking order.

It's been going on since the beginning. From trading those first round picks early in his tenure and not realizing you need to always be restocking the back end of the roster with young guys. To the idiotic Shaq trade. To holding on too long to the Nash era and chasing that 8 seed for years. To not anticipating that Dragic was going to want out after the IT signing to not anticipating Keif would act like an ****. Had they been self aware last deadline they would have said hey were not good enough to compete with the powers in the west lets just trade Dragic and IT for picks and regroup in the summer.. not making a panic trade for Knight then going out and giving a 30+ year old Tyson Chandler a bunch of money.

[GMATCallahan]

It's interesting to note that I got an email last week from the Suns ticket sale team offering me free tickets to an upcoming game (I think it was Toronto?)

I wonder if Sarver saw the already low ticket sales plummeting and freaked out. LOL.

Didn't Sarver buy the Suns for 550 million? Aren't they now estimated to be worth just over a billion?

He can double his money in just over 10 years. I hope he takes the money and walks away.

I really would not be surprised if the concern over ticket sales, and especially the renewal of season tickets, played a major role here.

I don't know how they think winning a couple extra games this season will increase ticket sales next year versus getting a potential top 3 pick? I would think the thought of a top line player might increase ticket sales more.

That is how they should think, but my guess is that they are aiming for more of the casual fan who wants a 'positive entertainment experience' as opposed to the basketball aficionado who is thinking strategically about the future direction of the club. The theory is that the loyalty of that casual fan is more tenuous, and thus he (or she) needs to be catered to.

I recall that this theory about ticket sales emerged last season when Denver fired Brian Shaw in March 2015.

[GMATCallahan]

No offense but that video is a great example of having a conclusion and then making up a story how it came to that.

How exactly is Tyson Chandler holding back Len? He is not.
Also LaMarcus Aldridge was very very close to actually being a Sun.

Chandler's not holding back Len. Although we do have a coach who insists on playing Chandler even though Len should be starting imo, but that's not Chandler's fault--it's Jeff's.

Or is it management's? First, you do not usually sign a guy to a $52M contract with the expectation that he will come off the bench. The Suns inked Chandler to be their starting center, at least during the first year or two of that contract. The idea was that Len would serve as Chandler's understudy, at least for the first year or two. (Besides, Len did start five of Hornacek's last six games, albeit alongside Chandler.) Second, Hornacek was obviously under pressure to win games or else lose his job—there is now absolutely no doubt about that. Very young lineups usually do not win much of anything, so Hornacek was playing veterans to try and win games, which is what the organization wanted.

I just do not see how Hornacek's failures can be separated from the greater strategic failures or ownership and management.

[GMATCallahan]

Isn't this just the latest example of something that has plagued this franchise since Sarver took over? utter lack of self awareness and foresight. One of the most dangerous things you can do as a franchise is not being honest with yourself and were you stand in the pecking order.

It's been going on since the beginning. From trading those first round picks early in his tenure and not realizing you need to always be restocking the back end of the roster with young guys. To the idiotic Shaq trade. To holding on too long to the Nash era and chasing that 8 seed for years. To not anticipating that Dragic was going to want out after the IT signing to not anticipating Keif would act like an ****. Had they been self aware last deadline they would have said hey were not good enough to compete with the powers in the west lets just trade Dragic and IT for picks and regroup in the summer.. not making a panic trade for Knight then going out and giving a 30+ year old Tyson Chandler a bunch of money.

The Suns traded for Shaq because Shawn Marion was very disgruntled, he had become a drag on team chemistry, and he would have walked as a free agent after the season. And because of the decline in team chemistry and the Suns' continued lack of interior defense and rebounding, the notion that Phoenix would have won the NBA championship or even the Western Conference in 2008 with Marion is dubious at best, especially given the Lakers' ascent that year.

I would not call the acquisition of Knight a "panic trade," either, but a strategic deal. The Suns liked him as a player, and even if he would not complement Bledsoe effectively, he would at least give Phoenix another option and another asset.

But I do concur about the lack of strategic thinking and long-term vision that has plagued Sarver's tenure. Looking back, I am especially amused by the media-driven narrative that Phoenix should not trade Nash because doing so would alienate the fan base. Sure, many fans would be upset in the short term, but the Suns had enjoyed a loyal and passionate following years before Nash arrived, and they could rebuild that following after Nash so long as they created a successful and attractive product. And is that not part of business, the idea that sometimes you have to tear some things down in order to effectively grow for the future?

Sarver's acumen in the business of banking has not only failed to translate to the basketball floor, but it has failed to consistently translate to the business of basketball. Granted, he was smart enough to understand that giving a three-year contract to a thirty-eight-year old (Nash) would be moronic, especially when that thirty-eight-year old was weak defensively and could no longer score with the volume that the club needed from him in order to prove elite offensively and reach the playoffs. And Sarver was smart enough to understand that giving a five-year maximum contract to a player who had undergone four knee surgeries (Stoudemire) was also stupid. Actually, giving Shawn Marion a maximum contract that would have begun when he was thirty, and when that player relied on athleticism much more than skill, would have also been a bad move. So perhaps Sarver makes good business decisions when the issue comes down to putting words and ink on contracts (although not always: see Michael Beasley). Otherwise, though, the sense of defensiveness—we cannot do this or that because it might alienate the fan base, we always have to try and show that we are 'competing,' and we are constantly axing a head coach or assistant to show that we do not tolerate losing—has been absolutely astounding. As a result, the Suns have been oscillating between mediocrity and atrociousness for years now.

[nevetsov]

If I was playing a drinking game during the McD presser where I had a shot every time he referenced either the 48 win season, or the 7-5 start, I would have been drunk in about 10 minutes.

[DirtyDez]

Isn't this just the latest example of something that has plagued this franchise since Sarver took over? utter lack of self awareness and foresight. One of the most dangerous things you can do as a franchise is not being honest with yourself and were you stand in the pecking order.

It's been going on since the beginning. From trading those first round picks early in his tenure and not realizing you need to always be restocking the back end of the roster with young guys. To the idiotic Shaq trade. To holding on too long to the Nash era and chasing that 8 seed for years. To not anticipating that Dragic was going to want out after the IT signing to not anticipating Keif would act like an ****. Had they been self aware last deadline they would have said hey were not good enough to compete with the powers in the west lets just trade Dragic and IT for picks and regroup in the summer.. not making a panic trade for Knight then going out and giving a 30+ year old Tyson Chandler a bunch of money.

The Suns traded for Shaq because Shawn Marion was very disgruntled, he had become a drag on team chemistry, and he would have walked as a free agent after the season. And because of the decline in team chemistry and the Suns' continued lack of interior defense and rebounding, the notion that Phoenix would have won the NBA championship or even the Western Conference in 2008 with Marion is dubious at best, especially given the Lakers' ascent that year.

I would not call the acquisition of Knight a "panic trade," either, but a strategic deal. The Suns liked him as a player, and even if he would not complement Bledsoe effectively, he would at least give Phoenix another option and another asset.

But I do concur about the lack of strategic thinking and long-term vision that has plagued Sarver's tenure. Looking back, I am especially amused by the media-driven narrative that Phoenix should not trade Nash because doing so would alienate the fan base. Sure, many fans would be upset in the short term, but the Suns had enjoyed a loyal and passionate following years before Nash arrived, and they could rebuild that following after Nash so long as they created a successful and attractive product. And is that not part of business, the idea that sometimes you have to tear some things down in order to effectively grow for the future?

Sarver's acumen in the business of banking has not only failed to translate to the basketball floor, but it has failed to consistently translate to the business of basketball. Granted, he was smart enough to understand that giving a three-year contract to a thirty-eight-year old (Nash) would be moronic, especially when that thirty-eight-year old was weak defensively and could no longer score with the volume that the club needed from him in order to prove elite offensively and reach the playoffs. And Sarver was smart enough to understand that giving a five-year maximum contract to a player who had undergone four knee surgeries (Stoudemire) was also stupid. Actually, giving Shawn Marion a maximum contract that would have begun when he was thirty, and when that player relied on athleticism much more than skill, would have also been a bad move. So perhaps Sarver makes good business decisions when the issue comes down to putting words and ink on contracts (although not always: see Michael Beasley). Otherwise, though, the sense of defensiveness—we cannot do this or that because it might alienate the fan base, we always have to try and show that we are 'competing,' and we are constantly axing a head coach or assistant to show that we do not tolerate losing—has been absolutely astounding. As a result, the Suns have been oscillating between mediocrity and atrociousness for years now.

It would've been an interesting series because I believe Bynum went down after we traded for Shaq but Boston would've been waiting for us anyway. KG was still at his defensive peak and Rondo had always given Nash fits. Plus Boston would've had homecourt. I'd say Boston in 6 assuming Marion's attitude didn't affect the team's spirits before June.

[bwgood77]

I really would not be surprised if the concern over ticket sales, and especially the renewal of season tickets, played a major role here.

I don't know how they think winning a couple extra games this season will increase ticket sales next year versus getting a potential top 3 pick? I would think the thought of a top line player might increase ticket sales more.

That is how they should think, but my guess is that they are aiming for more of the casual fan who wants a 'positive entertainment experience' as opposed to the basketball aficionado who is thinking strategically about the future direction of the club. The theory is that the loyalty of that casual fan is more tenuous, and thus he (or she) needs to be catered to.

I recall that this theory about ticket sales emerged last season when Denver fired Brian Shaw in March 2015.

The problem with the casual fan theory, which can be fine at times, is that when casual fans have lost so much interest that they almost don't pay attention to the team AT ALL anyway, especially with this train wreck of the last year, they have tuned out anyway.

He SHOULD be aware enough that the "millenials" he probably turned off SHOULD be the ones he should start to target, or maybe more of the aficionado's or slightly younger than average age fans who would be much more excited about next season with a high pick.

Hype with Ben Simmons or Brandon Ingram would certainly help, and obviously they need to dump Markieff by next offseason at the latest, even if it comes down to waiving him. Hopefully they can strike a deal and get something decent back at this deadline though. Maybe Kieff loves Watson and will come to play? Who knows? I hope so.

[GMATCallahan]

If Ryan McDonough truly believed Markieff Morris would be professional and play the same way, he is a horrible judge of character.

Totally agree. Markeif acting like a spoiled idiot child was the most predictable thing ever. Having him on the roster to start his season was borderline criminal negligence.

... especially since he already has his money. Sure, he might want another major contract down the road, but he has a few years before he needs to worry about it.

[bwgood77]

Isn't this just the latest example of something that has plagued this franchise since Sarver took over? utter lack of self awareness and foresight. One of the most dangerous things you can do as a franchise is not being honest with yourself and were you stand in the pecking order.

But I do concur about the lack of strategic thinking and long-term vision that has plagued Sarver's tenure. Looking back, I am especially amused by the media-driven narrative that Phoenix should not trade Nash because doing so would alienate the fan base. Sure, many fans would be upset in the short term, but the Suns had enjoyed a loyal and passionate following years before Nash arrived, and they could rebuild that following after Nash so long as they created a successful and attractive product. And is that not part of business, the idea that sometimes you have to tear some things down in order to effectively grow for the future?

And I really think a lot of the newer fans that became super fans during the SSOL era (and my guess is, many of the people on this forum fit in this category) continued to follow the team, even until now. You see many of the posters during those glory days gone, but quite a few also remain and have been loyal. But I feel as if, along with the casual fans, many of these newer fans, if things don't turn around fairly quickly, or at least they go young and exciting, and they keep trying to patch together an 8 seed, will slowly (or possibly quickly diminish).

2004-2010 gave him probably 2-3 years of goodwill for casual fans, and 5-6 for new die hard fans. Of course us long term fans suffer the most, but I guess we've been through many ups and downs, though not any quite as bad as where it's gotten for at least this length of time. I didn't really become a big fan until right after the drug scandal, and only saw the tail end of the Davis/Adams/Westphal teams as a kid, so I can't speak much of the history before that.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Isn't this just the latest example of something that has plagued this franchise since Sarver took over? utter lack of self awareness and foresight. One of the most dangerous things you can do as a franchise is not being honest with yourself and were you stand in the pecking order.

It's been going on since the beginning. From trading those first round picks early in his tenure and not realizing you need to always be restocking the back end of the roster with young guys. To the idiotic Shaq trade. To holding on too long to the Nash era and chasing that 8 seed for years. To not anticipating that Dragic was going to want out after the IT signing to not anticipating Keif would act like an ****. Had they been self aware last deadline they would have said hey were not good enough to compete with the powers in the west lets just trade Dragic and IT for picks and regroup in the summer.. not making a panic trade for Knight then going out and giving a 30+ year old Tyson Chandler a bunch of money.

The Suns traded for Shaq because Shawn Marion was very disgruntled, he had become a drag on team chemistry, and he would have walked as a free agent after the season. And because of the decline in team chemistry and the Suns' continued lack of interior defense and rebounding, the notion that Phoenix would have won the NBA championship or even the Western Conference in 2008 with Marion is dubious at best, especially given the Lakers' ascent that year.

I would not call the acquisition of Knight a "panic trade," either, but a strategic deal. The Suns liked him as a player, and even if he would not complement Bledsoe effectively, he would at least give Phoenix another option and another asset.

But I do concur about the lack of strategic thinking and long-term vision that has plagued Sarver's tenure. Looking back, I am especially amused by the media-driven narrative that Phoenix should not trade Nash because doing so would alienate the fan base. Sure, many fans would be upset in the short term, but the Suns had enjoyed a loyal and passionate following years before Nash arrived, and they could rebuild that following after Nash so long as they created a successful and attractive product. And is that not part of business, the idea that sometimes you have to tear some things down in order to effectively grow for the future?

Sarver's acumen in the business of banking has not only failed to translate to the basketball floor, but it has failed to consistently translate to the business of basketball. Granted, he was smart enough to understand that giving a three-year contract to a thirty-eight-year old (Nash) would be moronic, especially when that thirty-eight-year old was weak defensively and could no longer score with the volume that the club needed from him in order to prove elite offensively and reach the playoffs. And Sarver was smart enough to understand that giving a five-year maximum contract to a player who had undergone four knee surgeries (Stoudemire) was also stupid. Actually, giving Shawn Marion a maximum contract that would have begun when he was thirty, and when that player relied on athleticism much more than skill, would have also been a bad move. So perhaps Sarver makes good business decisions when the issue comes down to putting words and ink on contracts (although not always: see Michael Beasley). Otherwise, though, the sense of defensiveness—we cannot do this or that because it might alienate the fan base, we always have to try and show that we are 'competing,' and we are constantly axing a head coach or assistant to show that we do not tolerate losing—has been absolutely astounding. As a result, the Suns have been oscillating between mediocrity and atrociousness for years now.

I didn't have a problem trading Marion but trading him for a washed up Shaq with they system we were playing was ridiculous and seemed gimicky.

[GMATCallahan]

Isn't this just the latest example of something that has plagued this franchise since Sarver took over? utter lack of self awareness and foresight. One of the most dangerous things you can do as a franchise is not being honest with yourself and were you stand in the pecking order.

It's been going on since the beginning. From trading those first round picks early in his tenure and not realizing you need to always be restocking the back end of the roster with young guys. To the idiotic Shaq trade. To holding on too long to the Nash era and chasing that 8 seed for years. To not anticipating that Dragic was going to want out after the IT signing to not anticipating Keif would act like an ****. Had they been self aware last deadline they would have said hey were not good enough to compete with the powers in the west lets just trade Dragic and IT for picks and regroup in the summer.. not making a panic trade for Knight then going out and giving a 30+ year old Tyson Chandler a bunch of money.

The Suns traded for Shaq because Shawn Marion was very disgruntled, he had become a drag on team chemistry, and he would have walked as a free agent after the season. And because of the decline in team chemistry and the Suns' continued lack of interior defense and rebounding, the notion that Phoenix would have won the NBA championship or even the Western Conference in 2008 with Marion is dubious at best, especially given the Lakers' ascent that year.

I would not call the acquisition of Knight a "panic trade," either, but a strategic deal. The Suns liked him as a player, and even if he would not complement Bledsoe effectively, he would at least give Phoenix another option and another asset.

But I do concur about the lack of strategic thinking and long-term vision that has plagued Sarver's tenure. Looking back, I am especially amused by the media-driven narrative that Phoenix should not trade Nash because doing so would alienate the fan base. Sure, many fans would be upset in the short term, but the Suns had enjoyed a loyal and passionate following years before Nash arrived, and they could rebuild that following after Nash so long as they created a successful and attractive product. And is that not part of business, the idea that sometimes you have to tear some things down in order to effectively grow for the future?

Sarver's acumen in the business of banking has not only failed to translate to the basketball floor, but it has failed to consistently translate to the business of basketball. Granted, he was smart enough to understand that giving a three-year contract to a thirty-eight-year old (Nash) would be moronic, especially when that thirty-eight-year old was weak defensively and could no longer score with the volume that the club needed from him in order to prove elite offensively and reach the playoffs. And Sarver was smart enough to understand that giving a five-year maximum contract to a player who had undergone four knee surgeries (Stoudemire) was also stupid. Actually, giving Shawn Marion a maximum contract that would have begun when he was thirty, and when that player relied on athleticism much more than skill, would have also been a bad move. So perhaps Sarver makes good business decisions when the issue comes down to putting words and ink on contracts (although not always: see Michael Beasley). Otherwise, though, the sense of defensiveness—we cannot do this or that because it might alienate the fan base, we always have to try and show that we are 'competing,' and we are constantly axing a head coach or assistant to show that we do not tolerate losing—has been absolutely astounding. As a result, the Suns have been oscillating between mediocrity and atrociousness for years now.

It would've been an interesting series because I believe Bynum went down after we traded for Shaq but Boston would've been waiting for us anyway. KG was still at his defensive peak and Rondo had always given Nash fits. Plus Boston would've had homecourt. I'd say Boston in 6 assuming Marion's attitude didn't affect the team's spirits before June.

And the Lakers still would have had Gasol and Odom, neither of whom the Suns matched up well against inside. Of course, there is no guarantee that the Suns would have beaten the Hornets, Spurs, or whoever they may have played that year. Indeed, Chris Paul and Tony Parker would have presented major challenges in the pick-and-roll.

One never knows what would have happened, but D'Antoni later said that he never would have approved or advocated for that trade had Marion's attitude not soured. He just felt that matters were not working with Marion anymore, even if the tangible results were still more or less the same.

[bwgood77]

If I was playing a drinking game during the McD presser where I had a shot every time he referenced either the 48 win season, or the 7-5 start, I would have been drunk in about 10 minutes.

And guess who's left from that 48 season? A guy that was out for half the season because of a torn meniscus and once again, he is out again with a torn meniscus, a disgruntled Markieff, and his rookie center from that year who missed much of the season. Oh, and PJ. Is that it?

I don't think he should be referring much to that season. I'm not saying all those players shouldn't be gone, but the ONLY reason to mention that season was to do so when backing Hornacek since he had that team playing well above their talent and league expectations.

Even the first half of last season, despite the guards being disgruntled, we were still 28-20 at one point and once again, playing well above their talent, until the circus started and we got rid of our all third team guy (at least got a good return) and a current all star, along with Plumlee and Ennis, some depth that would have probably been welcome since Knight and Len went down in the second half of the year.

Pointing all those things out, are one way to back Hornacek...that when the team wasn't decimated and/or disgruntled, they played well above their talent, but why bring that stuff up now? Most ALL those players (and coach) that made it look like we "not that far off" are gone.

[GMATCallahan]

I didn't have a problem trading Marion but trading him for a washed up Shaq with they system we were playing was ridiculous and seemed gimicky.

The issue was really on defense; Shaq and Stoudemire did not complement each other defensively because neither defended the pick-and-roll effectively and neither rotated quickly. Actually, one would be hard-pressed to have found three worse pick-and-roll defenders in the NBA at that time than Shaquille O'Neal, Amar'e Stoudemire, and Steve Nash ...

Just examine this compilation here:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xlWoYQUkFE[/youtube]

Just look at the lack of pressure and trapping, the lack of contested looks, the ease and fluidity of motion and the openness of space. That was the first playoff performance of at least 40 points and 10 assists in Phoenix in thirteen years.

[GMATCallahan]

If I was playing a drinking game during the McD presser where I had a shot every time he referenced either the 48 win season, or the 7-5 start, I would have been drunk in about 10 minutes.

And guess who's left from that 48 season? A guy that was out for half the season because of a torn meniscus and once again, he is out again with a torn meniscus, a disgruntled Markieff, and his rookie center from that year who missed much of the season. Oh, and PJ. Is that it?

I don't think he should be referring much to that season. I'm not saying all those players shouldn't be gone, but the ONLY reason to mention that season was to do so when backing Hornacek since he had that team playing well above their talent and league expectations.

Even the first half of last season, despite the guards being disgruntled, we were still 28-20 at one point and once again, playing well above their talent, until the circus started and we got rid of our all third team guy (at least got a good return) and a current all star, along with Plumlee and Ennis, some depth that would have probably been welcome since Knight and Len went down in the second half of the year.

Pointing all those things out, are one way to back Hornacek...that when the team wasn't decimated and/or disgruntled, they played well above their talent, but why bring that stuff up now? Most ALL those players (and coach) that made it look like we "not that far off" are gone.

Yeah, who is primarily responsible for the demise of the 48-win team? I would say McDonough, not Hornacek. The current Suns do not feature anywhere near the firepower of that club (which, let us note, still did not make the playoffs, anyway).

[Jdiddy701]

Something about quoting posts that are long bugs me. I know I can't be the only one. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Damkac]

Spoiler:

Something about quoting posts that are long bugs me. I know I can't be the only one. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Yes, but what can you do?

[letsgosuns]

It really is sad that McDonough always brings up the "when I came here, the Suns had just won 25 games and then won 48 games during my first year" line. Who cares. He is living in the past and is in denial. The worst part is that there has been a dramatic downward trajectory. I would rather them be trending up versus trending down. There is so much dissatisfaction with fans now Idk what to say. And to hear the same we still have faith in Markieff rhetoric is stupefying.