The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[JulesWinnfield]

Thinking about it more have Wade/Lebron ever had a combined game performance better than this one?

Maybe game 4 Indiana 2012, but that's debatable. If the Cavs win this series this one takes on an entirely different legend

[Colbinii]

This 3 day rest is going to do wonders for LeBron.

[bigboi]

Let's meme it:

Elimination Games

Michael Jordan (13 G)

Average Defense: 104.3 DRTG (-3.4)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

41.6  31.3  7.9   7.0   4.2   2.0   24.0  11.7 .537  .125    23.3

Lebron James (16 G)

Average Defense: 101.3 DRTG (-5.3)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

45.1  32.4  11.0  6.6   4.2   1.4   23.9  11.3 .561  .127    24.7

Kobe Bryant Post-2001 (13 G)

Average Defense: 102.7 DRTG ( -3.2)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

42.3  24.9  5.7   3.1   3.5   1.2   21.7  7.3  .500  .124    13.8

Spoiler:

Kobe Bryant Career (18 G)

Average Defense: 102.3 DRTG ( -3.1)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

40.0  22.2  5.4   3.2   3.1   0.9   19.4  6.5  .498  .123    12.6

This is kinda useless without seeing the games. Lebron and MJ are prob much better. But two or three bad games could lower his stats significantly and make it seem worse than it is

[JLei]

You win at home and anything can happen in a best of 1. At the risk of being nauseatingly repetitive (I've said this several times on this thread) you have to throw all conventional wisdom out the window when it comes to finals game 7s. These games are unlike anything else, players play tight, those games are routinely much lower scoring than the rest of the series and all 7 of the finals game 7s that we have seen post merger were toss up games in the 4th. The home team happened to win the last 6 in a row, but that's bound to change at some point. Why not when you have mr elimination game and mr game 7 leading you? The tightness may even be amplified on golden states part given that they'd be on the verge of potentially blowing a 3-1 lead. At minimum you have to say the Cavs odds are way better than they looked 3 hours ago

Well you have Lebron James. He's making his jumper you win provided his team doesn't **** the bed.

You have to do everything to stop his conventional game (driving finishing and playmaking). He's a checkmate player when his jumper is on because you can't stop him from getting it off due to his height and the fact that he is so devastating passing out of double teams also because of his height.

So yes you always have a chance when you have Lebron.

[kayess]

Let's meme it:

Elimination Games

Michael Jordan (13 G)

Average Defense: 104.3 DRTG (-3.4)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

41.6  31.3  7.9   7.0   4.2   2.0   24.0  11.7 .537  .125    23.3

Lebron James (16 G)

Average Defense: 101.3 DRTG (-5.3)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

45.1  32.4  11.0  6.6   4.2   1.4   23.9  11.3 .561  .127    24.7

Kobe Bryant Post-2001 (13 G)

Average Defense: 102.7 DRTG ( -3.2)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

42.3  24.9  5.7   3.1   3.5   1.2   21.7  7.3  .500  .124    13.8

Spoiler:

Kobe Bryant Career (18 G)

Average Defense: 102.3 DRTG ( -3.1)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

40.0  22.2  5.4   3.2   3.1   0.9   19.4  6.5  .498  .123    12.6

Obviously, LeBron is unclutch because Kobe/Jordan would NEVER let their teams face elimination!!

[therealbig3]

Let's meme it:

Elimination Games

Michael Jordan (13 G)

Average Defense: 104.3 DRTG (-3.4)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

41.6  31.3  7.9   7.0   4.2   2.0   24.0  11.7 .537  .125    23.3

Lebron James (16 G)

Average Defense: 101.3 DRTG (-5.3)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

45.1  32.4  11.0  6.6   4.2   1.4   23.9  11.3 .561  .127    24.7

Kobe Bryant Post-2001 (13 G)

Average Defense: 102.7 DRTG ( -3.2)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

42.3  24.9  5.7   3.1   3.5   1.2   21.7  7.3  .500  .124    13.8

Spoiler:

Kobe Bryant Career (18 G)

Average Defense: 102.3 DRTG ( -3.1)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

40.0  22.2  5.4   3.2   3.1   0.9   19.4  6.5  .498  .123    12.6

But Kobe is a closer! He's so clutch! He was made for the Finals! He's got the will to win!

These were literally the arguments that people were STILL using on the GB a couple of days ago.

LeBron's not perfect, but I think people like to talk themselves into circles just to justify a player that they like more (Kobe) over the one they like less (LeBron), instead of going with the simple answer of the player that is objectively better across the board, on a career-long basis, is the better player.

[ElGee]

So who else in history is up there with lebron as an elimination game player? Surely statistically he must be close to the top of the list right?

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1319376

I will update Lebron's numbers right now.

UPDATED:

16 Games, Average Defense faced: 101.3 DRTG (-5.3)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

45.1  32.4  11.0  6.6   4.2   1.4   23.9  11.3 .561  .127    24.7

Beat me to it. In the last 10:

https://twitter.com/ElGee35/status/742570359333879809

[JulesWinnfield]

What do we make of the Bogut injury? Obviously they won last year by benching him, and they are better in this series and in general with green at the 5, but this does limit their options. It has to have some positive impact for Cleveland right? Even if microscopic

[ElGee]

Yeah but the Cavs offense has gone in the tank again since about the 9:30 mark of the 4th. They haven't had a healthy possession since then. I think some of this is fatigue, but they have to a better job of moving/spacing/attacking mismatches or it will be the same flatline from G4.

Indeed I've been on edge the last 15 minutes, its been real ugly.

So just to be clear -- Cleveland had a BAD 4th quarter offensively. They were on 102 with 6 minutes left and finished at 112. The difference was Golden State just didn't score.

[JordansBulls]

What do we make of the Bogut injury? Obviously they won last year by benching him, and they are better in this series and in general with green at the 5, but this does limit their options. It has to have some positive impact for Cleveland right? Even if microscopic

Not if he was only playing 13 mpg. He only helps to give someone else a breather. But in a game 6 I could see Draymond playing the full 48 minutes since he didn't play tonight.

[GSP]

Let's meme it:

Elimination Games

Michael Jordan (13 G)

Average Defense: 104.3 DRTG (-3.4)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

41.6  31.3  7.9   7.0   4.2   2.0   24.0  11.7 .537  .125    23.3

Lebron James (16 G)

Average Defense: 101.3 DRTG (-5.3)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

45.1  32.4  11.0  6.6   4.2   1.4   23.9  11.3 .561  .127    24.7

Kobe Bryant Post-2001 (13 G)

Average Defense: 102.7 DRTG ( -3.2)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

42.3  24.9  5.7   3.1   3.5   1.2   21.7  7.3  .500  .124    13.8

Spoiler:

Kobe Bryant Career (18 G)

Average Defense: 102.3 DRTG ( -3.1)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

40.0  22.2  5.4   3.2   3.1   0.9   19.4  6.5  .498  .123    12.6

This is kinda useless without seeing the games. Lebron and MJ are prob much better. But two or three bad games could lower his stats significantly and make it seem worse than it is

Its just an accurate estimate of how good they are in elimination games. I wouldnt take exact averages too serious, specially against the defensive strength (for example that prolly got boosted for Lebron tonight but the Warriors are obviously a pretty bad defense without Draymond).

[SideshowBob]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1319376

I will update Lebron's numbers right now.

UPDATED:

16 Games, Average Defense faced: 101.3 DRTG (-5.3)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

45.1  32.4  11.0  6.6   4.2   1.4   23.9  11.3 .561  .127    24.7

Beat me to it. In the last 10:

https://twitter.com/ElGee35/status/742570359333879809

Got you on the RT though.

Tonight was his highest by Game Score: 39.2 in 42.5 minutes

[SideshowBob]

Its just an accurate estimate of how good they are in elimination games. I wouldnt take exact averages too serious, specially against the defensive strength (for example that prolly got boosted for Lebron tonight but the Warriors are obviously a pretty bad defense without Draymond).

Actually defensive strength dropped - GS was -2.6 this year.

[SideshowBob]

Yeah but the Cavs offense has gone in the tank again since about the 9:30 mark of the 4th. They haven't had a healthy possession since then. I think some of this is fatigue, but they have to a better job of moving/spacing/attacking mismatches or it will be the same flatline from G4.

Indeed I've been on edge the last 15 minutes, its been real ugly.

So just to be clear -- Cleveland had a BAD 4th quarter offensively. They were on 102 with 6 minutes left and finished at 112. The difference was Golden State just didn't score.

Lot of just stand-still dribbling up top from Lebron w/no movement. Lot of iso for Irving on the baseline/wing w/no movement. James was engaging in screens a bit earlier on but moved away from it (looked like he spiked up his defensive effort a bit in the early 4th I think)

I think the hope would be that role-players get hot from 3 early on Thursday and they can create a cushion large enough that the offense doesn't get a chance to bog down late. Another game like this one and the MOE is just too small to be reliable.

[GSP]

Its just an accurate estimate of how good they are in elimination games. I wouldnt take exact averages too serious, specially against the defensive strength (for example that prolly got boosted for Lebron tonight but the Warriors are obviously a pretty bad defense without Draymond).

Actually defensive strength dropped - GS was -2.6 this year.

Yeah youre right. I thought they were better than that for some reason. Still theyre obviously not even close to -2.6 without Draymond, think he only missed one other game this season and the Warriors got lit up by Denver in that one. Their pickandroll coverages go to **** without him and Kyrie/Lebron just ran them over there

[DreDay]

That was one of the best games I've seen LeBron play ever. After the insistence to run ISOs for two consecutive series and his broken jumpshot I never thought he could have a game like this against us, but he did. Props to him, and he's officially made me nervous as heck for the rest of the series (along with Kyrie).

[bigboi]

Let's meme it:

Elimination Games

Michael Jordan (13 G)

Average Defense: 104.3 DRTG (-3.4)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

41.6  31.3  7.9   7.0   4.2   2.0   24.0  11.7 .537  .125    23.3

Lebron James (16 G)

Average Defense: 101.3 DRTG (-5.3)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

45.1  32.4  11.0  6.6   4.2   1.4   23.9  11.3 .561  .127    24.7

Kobe Bryant Post-2001 (13 G)

Average Defense: 102.7 DRTG ( -3.2)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

42.3  24.9  5.7   3.1   3.5   1.2   21.7  7.3  .500  .124    13.8

Spoiler:

Kobe Bryant Career (18 G)

Average Defense: 102.3 DRTG ( -3.1)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

40.0  22.2  5.4   3.2   3.1   0.9   19.4  6.5  .498  .123    12.6

But Kobe is a closer! He's so clutch! He was made for the Finals! He's got the will to win!

These were literally the arguments that people were STILL using on the GB a couple of days ago.

LeBron's not perfect, but I think people like to talk themselves into circles just to justify a player that they like more (Kobe) over the one they like less (LeBron), instead of going with the simple answer of the player that is objectively better across the board, on a career-long basis, is the better player.

In terms of taking the last shot, I'll take Kobe over Lebron 9/10. And yes, I know the numbers, but Kobe's jumper is much more consistent

[JulesWinnfield]

With regards to Steph vs dray impact... I just have to say in fairness to Steph, he wasn't dumb enough to get himself suspended for tonight. If the Warriors had to play with dray but without Steph, the game may have looked different but the result is probably the same. I'll tell you right now as a Cavs rooter, if I had the option of facing golden state without one or the other Im still feeling way more confident facing them without Steph, even an injured and less than 100% Steph.

[porcerel]

I'm sure Love was in his own head the rest of the way after this exchange with LeBron. It no doubt exacerbated his already severely diminished confidence.

[Colbinii]

Let's meme it:

Elimination Games

Michael Jordan (13 G)

Average Defense: 104.3 DRTG (-3.4)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

41.6  31.3  7.9   7.0   4.2   2.0   24.0  11.7 .537  .125    23.3

Lebron James (16 G)

Average Defense: 101.3 DRTG (-5.3)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

45.1  32.4  11.0  6.6   4.2   1.4   23.9  11.3 .561  .127    24.7

Kobe Bryant Post-2001 (13 G)

Average Defense: 102.7 DRTG ( -3.2)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

42.3  24.9  5.7   3.1   3.5   1.2   21.7  7.3  .500  .124    13.8

Spoiler:

Kobe Bryant Career (18 G)

Average Defense: 102.3 DRTG ( -3.1)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

40.0  22.2  5.4   3.2   3.1   0.9   19.4  6.5  .498  .123    12.6

But Kobe is a closer! He's so clutch! He was made for the Finals! He's got the will to win!

These were literally the arguments that people were STILL using on the GB a couple of days ago.

LeBron's not perfect, but I think people like to talk themselves into circles just to justify a player that they like more (Kobe) over the one they like less (LeBron), instead of going with the simple answer of the player that is objectively better across the board, on a career-long basis, is the better player.

In terms of taking the last shot, I'll take Kobe over Lebron 9/10. And yes, I know the numbers, but Kobe's jumper is much more consistent

I would take LeBron taking control of the last possession 9/10.