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Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer?

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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#61 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:39 pm

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, a draftee (with modest production) from the same class as THJ and Dennis, is reportedly angling for a max contract in extension talks. In its absence, he is expected to enter RESTRICTED Free Agency next summer.


The Detroit Pistons and the fourth-year shooting guard have until Oct. 31 to agree to a contract extension, but when you consider all the factors, it appears unlikely Caldwell-Pope and the Pistons will reach an agreement, meaning Caldwell-Pope will be a restricted free agent next off-season.

A quick look at rookie extensions shows how the market has changed. Allen Crabbe, who will come off the Portland Trail Blazers bench this season, signed a four-year, $75-million offer sheet with the Brooklyn Nets. The Blazers matched the offer.

The Crabbe signing is noteworthy because Caldwell-Pope, despite a spotty shooting reputation, has established himself as a solid starter.

So Crabbe’s deal likely is a starting point for any negotiations.

There was gossip over the summer that it would take a deal worth north of $20 million per year to get Caldwell-Pope’s signature. But the Pistons’ payroll is burgeoning, and owner Tom Gores likely will face a luxury-tax bill for being over the NBA’s tax line.

So Caldwell-Pope and agents Rich Paul and Mark Termini are in the position of trying to ensure that no money is being left on the table. The trend has been for more players to wait until restricted free agency status to resolve contract issues.

Caldwell-Pope can wait and gauge interest next summer, maybe even sign an offer sheet, giving the Pistons 72 hours to decide whether to make the financial commitment.
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I can't help but wonder which of our two parties is less interested in signing a rookie-contract extension:

Dennis, because he's betting on himself and wants a better contract offer.

or the Hawks front office, willing to gamble a bit--in hopes of seeing DS in a starting role-- and in hopes of preserving cap space for next summer.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#62 » by Tricky_Kid » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:10 pm

Hi I can't thank you enough for Kelly Oubre Jr who became my second favourite player after Wall. Thj wasn`t worth that pick but It feels like hawks fans are happy with him.

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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#63 » by PandaKidd » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:20 pm

4 YEARS 70 MILLION FOR ds
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#64 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:28 pm

Tricky_Kid wrote:Hi I can't thank you enough for Kelly Oubre Jr who became my second favourite player after Wall. Thj wasn`t worth that pick but It feels like hawks fans are happy with him.

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Your words are hurtful. Enjoy K Oubre.

PS You guys should consider trading Wall
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#65 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:30 pm

PandaKidd wrote:4 YEARS 70 MILLION FOR ds




Read on Twitter



Yeah, there were benefits to waiting until next summer (which were raised in this thread), but this was a good deal for the Hawks.

Can't believe Bazemore is getting the same deal as Klay Thompson and Dennis Schroder. His agent deserves a raise and a hug.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#66 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:43 pm

The changing dynamics of the new CBA may have also played a role in getting an extension for DS complete. Though, I get the feeling the negotiations for this deal were in the works long before now:


RealGM Wiretap wrote:Cap holds attached to free agents coming off rookie deals could jump to 250 and 300 percent of their prior salaries, which is an increase from 200 and 250 percent in the NBA's new collective bargaining agreement.
The San Antonio Spurs, Detroit Pistons and Washington Wizards held off on extensions with Kawhi Leonard, Andre Drummond and Bradley Beal, respectively, to maintain a lower cap number.
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Re: RE: Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#67 » by Tricky_Kid » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:44 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Tricky_Kid wrote:Hi I can't thank you enough for Kelly Oubre Jr who became my second favourite player after Wall. Thj wasn`t worth that pick but It feels like hawks fans are happy with him.

Sent from my LG-P880 using RealGM mobile app



Your words are hurtful. Enjoy K Oubre.

PS You guys should consider trading Wall

No point of trading allstar PG for picks we aren't in rebuild mode. We've got a group of youngsters with Beal, Otto, Kelly, Trey and few undrafted pickups. Everyone is sleeping on Wizards thats awesome I read You guys keeping DS for few more years good for You. I'm curious if He will be as good as Jeff Teague was for your team. I can't wait for our game. Be ready for new offense from Wiz with a lot of passing, involving everyone and hopefully better defence which is Scott Brooks speciality. And Bradley Beal looked better than ever. Cheers

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Re: RE: Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#68 » by jayu70 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:46 pm

Tricky_Kid wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
Tricky_Kid wrote:Hi I can't thank you enough for Kelly Oubre Jr who became my second favourite player after Wall. Thj wasn`t worth that pick but It feels like hawks fans are happy with him.

Sent from my LG-P880 using RealGM mobile app



Your words are hurtful. Enjoy K Oubre.

PS You guys should consider trading Wall

No point of trading allstar PG for picks we aren't in rebuild mode. We've got a group of youngsters with Beal, Otto, Kelly, Trey and few undrafted pickups. Everyone is sleeping on Wizards thats awesome I read You guys keeping DS for few more years good for You. I'm curious if He will be as good as Jeff Teague was for your team. I can't wait for our game. Be ready for new offense from Wiz with a lot of passing, involving everyone and hopefully better defence which is Scott Brooks speciality. And Bradley Beal looked better than ever. Cheers

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Dennis has a chance to be better than Teague. His per 36 were already on par last season with Teague and his defense was much better. He's still only 22 and has a lot to learn. Coach Bud opted to play Dennis to close out some games last year in lieu of Teague.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#69 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:32 pm

Atlanta’s other extension candidate Tim Hardaway Jr. is unlikely to receive an extension by the October 31 deadline according to a report by The Vertical’s Adrian Wojnarowski.


While the Hawks paid a high price to acquire Hardaway back at the 2015 Draft, the report of no extension comes as no surprise.

It seems like the correct move on Atlanta’s part to pass on an extension now. The Hawks can tender Hardaway a qualifying offer and then will have the right to match any offer from another team.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#70 » by jayu70 » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:04 pm

I agree with resigning Dennis.
I agree with not resigning THJr - gotta see what he can give us this season.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#71 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:08 pm

Hawks Beat writer Chris Vivlamore echoes the report from The Vertical.

Hours before the deadline, talks between the Hawks and Tim Hardaway Jr. continued Monday but a contract extension is unlikely, according to several people familiar with the situation.

The Hawks and the guard have until 11:59 p.m. Monday to extend his rookie contract. If a deal is not reached, Hardaway will become a restricted free agent following the season.


There have been several conversations and, according to one person familiar with the situation, both sides would like to work out a long-term deal. However, the timing might be better in the spring.


Hardaway was acquired from the Knicks on draft night last year. He spent a short stint in the NBA Development League. Upon his return, he became a regular part of the Hawks rotation.


Hardaway had a strong offseason. He is the Hawks’ second-leading scorer after two regular-season games with an average of 14.0 points shooting 11 of 24 from the floor.


“We’ve had great conversations with his agent,” Hawks coach Mike Budenholzer said. “We very much value Tim and see him as a great fit for us. He and his agent feel the same. Whether that leads to something (by the deadline), we’ll see.”


The Hawks signed Dennis Schroder to a four-year, $70 million rookie contract extension last week.
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Hawks taking the understandable approach of maintaining control over assets as much as possible. But it sounds like THJ is willing to bet on himself, rather than take a below market deal.

I think there's a good chance he plays his way out of our price range this season.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#72 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Nov 1, 2016 3:22 pm

No rookie contract extension for Hardaway Jr


The Hawks and Tim Hardaway Jr. did not reach an agreement on a rookie contract extension before the Monday deadline.

The two sides had several conversations, including during the day on Monday. They had until 11:59 p.m. to reach an agreement. Hardaway will become a restricted free agent following the season.

Both sides have expressed an interest and optimism that a deal can be reached following the season to keep Hardaway in Atlanta.

Hardaway had a strong offseason, including working with Hawks assistants. He is averaging 11.0 points through three regular-season games.
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Re: RE: Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#73 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:10 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Your words are hurtful. PS You guys should consider trading Wall



Tricky_Kid wrote:No point of trading allstar PG for picks we aren't in rebuild mode.



Seriously...you guys need to consider trading John Wall. Don't wait until his value tanks and it's too late.

Miami, Philly, New Orleans, Sacramento each seem like natural trading partners.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#74 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:14 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Hawks Beat writer Chris Vivlamore echoes the report from The Vertical.

Hours before the deadline, talks between the Hawks and Tim Hardaway Jr. continued Monday but a contract extension is unlikely, according to several people familiar with the situation...

There have been several conversations and, according to one person familiar with the situation, both sides would like to work out a long-term deal. However, the timing might be better in the spring.

“We’ve had great conversations with his agent,” Hawks coach Mike Budenholzer said. “We very much value Tim and see him as a great fit for us. He and his agent feel the same. Whether that leads to something (by the deadline), we’ll see.”
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Hawks taking the understandable approach of maintaining control over assets as much as possible. But it sounds like THJ is willing to bet on himself, rather than take a below market deal.

I think there's a good chance he plays his way out of our price range this season.



THJ not only looks like an undeniably productive rotation player, but like a future starter at SG. Since we were unable to extend him last off-season, the question becomes:

How much are we willing to pay/match to keep him here? Has he truly played his way out of our price range?

Are we willing to go as high as $20 million+ based on one outstanding season? Will it come to that? Can we pay THJ a huge contract and still retain Millsap?

Which is more damaging to us long term: Failing to extend THJ last summer...or giving Bazemore that huge contract?

Thoughts?

Questions?

Concerns?
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#75 » by dms269 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:31 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Hawks Beat writer Chris Vivlamore echoes the report from The Vertical.

Hours before the deadline, talks between the Hawks and Tim Hardaway Jr. continued Monday but a contract extension is unlikely, according to several people familiar with the situation...

There have been several conversations and, according to one person familiar with the situation, both sides would like to work out a long-term deal. However, the timing might be better in the spring.

“We’ve had great conversations with his agent,” Hawks coach Mike Budenholzer said. “We very much value Tim and see him as a great fit for us. He and his agent feel the same. Whether that leads to something (by the deadline), we’ll see.”
Here


Hawks taking the understandable approach of maintaining control over assets as much as possible. But it sounds like THJ is willing to bet on himself, rather than take a below market deal.

I think there's a good chance he plays his way out of our price range this season.



THJ not only looks like an undeniably productive rotation player, but like a future starter at SG. Since we were unable to extend him last off-season, the question becomes:

How much are we willing to pay/match to keep him here? Has he truly played his way out of our price range?

Are we willing to go as high as $20 million+ based on one outstanding season? Will it come to that? Can we pay THJ a huge contract and still retain Millsap?

Which is more damaging to us long term: Failing to extend THJ last summer...or giving Bazemore that huge contract?

Thoughts?

Questions?

Concerns?


THJ had no incentive to sign an extension last year since his value was down.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#76 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:35 pm

dms269 wrote:THJ had no incentive to sign an extension last year since his value was down.



100% agree.

He took a gamble on himself and looks like he's gonna walk away a huuuge winner. One way or another.

I do wonder (hope) he feels some sense of loyalty to Bud and the Hawks for overpaying to acquire him and then developing him nicely into such an attractive piece.

He looks great. But I'm not sure I want to pay that kid $20 million+ with Bazemore already locked in on a bad contract and Taurean/Bembry in the pipeline.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#77 » by jayu70 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:22 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Hawks Beat writer Chris Vivlamore echoes the report from The Vertical.

Hours before the deadline, talks between the Hawks and Tim Hardaway Jr. continued Monday but a contract extension is unlikely, according to several people familiar with the situation...

There have been several conversations and, according to one person familiar with the situation, both sides would like to work out a long-term deal. However, the timing might be better in the spring.

“We’ve had great conversations with his agent,” Hawks coach Mike Budenholzer said. “We very much value Tim and see him as a great fit for us. He and his agent feel the same. Whether that leads to something (by the deadline), we’ll see.”
Here


Hawks taking the understandable approach of maintaining control over assets as much as possible. But it sounds like THJ is willing to bet on himself, rather than take a below market deal.

I think there's a good chance he plays his way out of our price range this season.



THJ not only looks like an undeniably productive rotation player, but like a future starter at SG. Since we were unable to extend him last off-season, the question becomes:

How much are we willing to pay/match to keep him here? Has he truly played his way out of our price range?

Are we willing to go as high as $20 million+ based on one outstanding season? Will it come to that? Can we pay THJ a huge contract and still retain Millsap?

Which is more damaging to us long term: Failing to extend THJ last summer...or giving Bazemore that huge contract?

Thoughts?

Questions?

Concerns?

The Hawks have full bird rights for both players so they can retain both by exceeding the salary cap to do so. The question as it always is - will the Hawks pony up.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#78 » by jayu70 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:24 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
dms269 wrote:THJ had no incentive to sign an extension last year since his value was down.



100% agree.

He took a gamble on himself and looks like he's gonna walk away a huuuge winner. One way or another.

I do wonder (hope) he feels some sense of loyalty to Bud and the Hawks for overpaying to acquire him and then developing him nicely into such an attractive piece.

He looks great. But I'm not sure I want to pay that kid $20 million+ with Bazemore already locked in on a bad contract and Taurean/Bembry in the pipeline.

They are eligible for extensions when Baze's contract expires, so I'm not concerned with the money part for them - playing time for them in lieu of Baze would be the only issue.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#79 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:35 pm

jayu70 wrote:They are eligible for extensions when Baze's contract expires, so I'm not concerned with the money part for them - playing time for them in lieu of Baze would be the only issue.



Okay. That's...not at all what I'm referring to. Another Hawk fan seems to have more clearly illustrated the concern.:

tbhawksfan1 wrote:Hawks will have 6 players under contract at the end of this season. How the he// are they going to fill out a "competitive" team next season?

If we keep and re-sign Sap, we won't have much cap left to fill the roster. We can sign guys first and then use Sap's bird rights to add him, but there are gonna be so many roster spots to fill...

What do you think the team will do for next season?

If we re-sign Millsap at $30 million+
Have Dwight making $25 million+
Have Bazemore at $17 million+
Have Schroder making $15 million+

...that totals up to $87 million. This summer, we have the ability to go over the cap, but in subsequent years we'd be locked in for four players, [most of whom are*] past their primes.

Now you factor in the $17 million+ it'll likely take to keep Hardaway and that's over $100 million for starting five that will progressively get worse as Millsap and Dwight age.

Is that wise long-term? In the summer of 2018, we'd have no feasible way to improve our roster or fill out the bench.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#80 » by jayu70 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:32 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
jayu70 wrote:They are eligible for extensions when Baze's contract expires, so I'm not concerned with the money part for them - playing time for them in lieu of Baze would be the only issue.



Okay. That's...not at all what I'm referring to. Another Hawk fan seems to have more clearly illustrated the concern.:

tbhawksfan1 wrote:Hawks will have 6 players under contract at the end of this season. How the he// are they going to fill out a "competitive" team next season?

If we keep and re-sign Sap, we won't have much cap left to fill the roster. We can sign guys first and then use Sap's bird rights to add him, but there are gonna be so many roster spots to fill...

What do you think the team will do for next season?

If we re-sign Millsap at $30 million+
Have Dwight making $25 million+
Have Bazemore at $17 million+
Have Schroder making $15 million+

...that totals up to $87 million. This summer, we have the ability to go over the cap, but in subsequent years we'd be locked in for four players, past their primes.

Now you factor in the $17 million+ it'll likely take to keep Hardaway and that's over $100 million for starting five that will progressively get worse as Millsap and Dwight age.

Is that wise long-term? In the summer of 2018, we'd have no feasible way to improve our roster or fill out the bench.

I've previously commented on a possible approach earlier in the thread.
Millsap and Dwight will be the only 2 players over 30 and 'past their prime'. Bazemore will be 29 in 2018 with 1+1 left on his current deal.
Dwight will have 1 year left on his contract in 2018 - 1. he can be traded, 2. he can be released and his remaining salary stretched over 4 years, so he'll count as $5 mil salary.
Bazemore can be traded, it will be tough to find a taker TODAY given the way he started this season (his January numbers are now respectable though), but you are talking 2018 (no one thought we would find a taker for Joe's contract, all it takes is one - he will have less years by then). He can also be stretched over 5 years but his option year will have to be included. Amnesty? will have to check new CBA.
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