Is Zach Lavine the most overrated young player in the NBA?

[Crazy-Canuck]

It might actually be his running mate Andrew Wiggins. Wiggins is less effcient, more selfish and far worse in the advanced stats on both sides of the ball.

This is not true.

Wiggins leads in PER, 15.2 to 14.7
Wiggins is far ahead in raw On/Off, positive 2.8 to negative 7.2
Wiggins leads in DRPM, -2.11 to -3.02
Wiggins leads in RPM, -1.49 to -1.85

Most importantly, Wiggins without Lavine is way better than Lavine without Wiggins.
Wiggins without Lavine- positive 4.8
Lavine without Wiggins- negative 4.4

Wiggins has been somewhat disappointing, but I'd much rather try to build a team with him than Lavine.

That's fair although Zach leads in VORP, OPdM, DPBM and a few other stars as well

And since Wiggins has always been considered the better prospect, he has been more overrated imo.

Zach puts up efficient individual numbers and has an aesthetically pleasing style of play.

Andrew looks uninterested on the court, but has a far greater impact on team play and wins.

The wolves can win if Zach is bad, but they can't win when Wiggins is bad.

When Wiggins is good, he can carry a team.
When lavine is good, they still lose.

So basically, Zach has more impact on his own numbers with less responsibilities while Wiggins has more impact on team numbers with more responsibilities.

Both players are good and have high ceilings. Just depends on want you want.

[The_Hater]

This is not true.

Wiggins leads in PER, 15.2 to 14.7
Wiggins is far ahead in raw On/Off, positive 2.8 to negative 7.2
Wiggins leads in DRPM, -2.11 to -3.02
Wiggins leads in RPM, -1.49 to -1.85

Most importantly, Wiggins without Lavine is way better than Lavine without Wiggins.
Wiggins without Lavine- positive 4.8
Lavine without Wiggins- negative 4.4

Wiggins has been somewhat disappointing, but I'd much rather try to build a team with him than Lavine.

That's fair although Zach leads in VORP, OPdM, DPBM and a few other stars as well

And since Wiggins has always been considered the better prospect, he has been more overrated imo.

Zach puts up efficient individual numbers and has an aesthetically pleasing style of play.

Andrew looks uninterested on the court, but has a far greater impact on team play and wins.

The wolves can win if Zach is bad, but they can't win when Wiggins is bad.

When Wiggins is good, he can carry a team.
When lavine is good, they still lose.

So basically, Zach has more impact on his own numbers with less responsibilities while Wiggins has more impact on team numbers with more responsibilities.

Both players are good and have high ceilings. Just depends on want you want.

That's all subjective opinion though.

I actually don't think Wiggins has that high a ceiling. His feel and instincts for the game have always been lacking IMO. Neither of the two players in question play a lick of defense either.

[Zeitgeister]

That's fair although Zach leads in VORP, OPdM, DPBM and a few other stars as well

And since Wiggins has always been considered the better prospect, he has been more overrated imo.

Zach puts up efficient individual numbers and has an aesthetically pleasing style of play.

Andrew looks uninterested on the court, but has a far greater impact on team play and wins.

The wolves can win if Zach is bad, but they can't win when Wiggins is bad.

When Wiggins is good, he can carry a team.
When lavine is good, they still lose.

So basically, Zach has more impact on his own numbers with less responsibilities while Wiggins has more impact on team numbers with more responsibilities.

Both players are good and have high ceilings. Just depends on want you want.

That's all subjective opinion though.

I actually don't think Wiggins has that high a ceiling. His feel and instincts for the game have always been lacking IMO. Neither of the two players in question play a lick of defense either.

Spot on.

Both guys are pretty terrible defensively. I've always wondered whether Wiggins is just not a very smart player or if he's just indifferent to what's happening on the court a lot of times.

Wiggins tends to play better in wins because he takes a high volume of shots win or lose and when a guy with a .530 TS% takes the amount of shots he does, the Wolves tend to play better when those shots are actually falling. I haven't looked at the numbers recently and it's possible they have leveled off some but the difference was absolutely staggering between his scoring in wins vs losses, close to a 200 point true shooting difference and he'd generally average several more points on wins too. He relies far too much on his long mid range jump shot and as a lot of people know, that's a very volatile shot to base your offense around.

I haven't checked in the past 15 days or so but he was ranked in the top 10 in transition offense, he was one of the best three point shooters in the league shooting over 40% on close to 7 three pointers a game. Over 70% of his offense came from three point range or at the rim. He's also a reasonable good secondary ball handler. He has shown the ability to play within the offense and for awhile he was the only one out of Towns, Wiggins and him that was consistently making the right passes. Both Towns and Wiggins (especially Towns) have improved on that front lately though.

So Rubio has worked his way into the offense more, I think Towns has upped his usage rate a bit more too and Wiggins has mostly stayed the same so with his hip injury and some of these changes he's been getting squeezed a little bit and he's gone through a rough patch lately.

Either way, I think calling LaVine the most overated young player is absolutely ridiculous considering he's hardly on anyone's radar while it seems a lot of Wolves fans think Wiggins is a superstar in waiting if only he'd get moved to SG.

[jazzfan1971]

I was pretty impressed with him in the game I saw him play vs. the3 Jazz. Just a monster athlete. Was able to penetrate and finish at will vs. a very strong defense. Impressive!

(he looks dumb as a rock though. Sort of slack jawed with vacant eyes. I wonder if he's lacking a bit there. To be fair, Dante Exum also looks dumb as a rock with his mouth breathing, so I realize you can't judge a book by its cover)

[Merc_Porto]

Spot on.

Both guys are pretty terrible defensively. I've always wondered whether Wiggins is just not a very smart player or if he's just indifferent to what's happening on the court a lot of times.

Zach is the 5th worst defender in the league and Zach defense tasks are not even comparable to Wiggins.

Wiggins has to guard guys like Leonard, Lebron or even RW or Harden at times. Zach has to guard guys like CJ Watson or CJ Miles and he still get's "murdered" pretty much every time.

Both guys are pretty terrible defensively but Zach is definitely worse by a large margin.

[cpfsf]

SPN insider had a top 25 under 25 list. Lavine was 19th just ahead of oladipo. nothing too extreme.

I'm not a subscriber. Google it if you wanna see more.

[Pass_the_rock]

Anyone who saw wolves play on semi regular occasion and thinks that LaVine can be a better player that Wiggins, please quit following basketball. Wiggins has so many more tools, it's not even funny. If Wiggins shoots poorly he still can get to the line a lot. When LaVine shoots poorly he's killed his team, completely useless. Wiggins can drive, shoot, post up, draws contact. Wiggins can be a menace on D once he learns it, the combo of length, leaping and quicks is just unreal. LaVine guards scrubs and gets killed. If Wiggins had higher motor it would never be a slightest of arguments.

[Quiet-Dude]

Not the most overrated by far, i dont think hes a good fit with Wiggins if you ask me. I feel like the Wolves have this identity, low bbiq problem or they still young af and still learning idk I get confused when I think about the Wolves

[bulliedog8]

Can Minnesota fans comment more on - not the efficiency of scoring in things like TS%, but more along the lines of which player can score in the flow of the offense better between Wiggins and LaVine?

They are both ball stoppers. Lavine would be best as a 6th man. Wiggins an SG with a 3&D SF next to him because wiggins is a trash defender and gets absolutely bullied by the sfs in the league. He needs to guard the sgs of the league because they arent as good as the sfs.

[AssistRubio]

Lavine is stunting Wiggins development. Having Wiggins play out of position is really hurting him. Lavine has to go for Wiggins to truly develop into the player he is a capable of being.

[Wolf_Cry]

Can Minnesota fans comment more on - not the efficiency of scoring in things like TS%, but more along the lines of which player can score in the flow of the offense better between Wiggins and LaVine?

I would say LaVine. Wiggins has a tendency to to hog the ball. I'm not sure if he's instructed to do so to develop a kobe-like mentality, but it's very annoying at times. I mean, when he's hot yeah it's amazing to watch, but most of the time I groan when he takes a contested 15 ft. turnaround fadeaway. That said, Wiggins still offers way more on the court that LaVine.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Out for the season.

If this isn't a jinx I don't know what is.

[BrooklynBulls]

Aaand he's torn his ACL. Terrible luck.

[Pillendreher]

Read on Twitter

[Duke4life831]

Torn ACL is horrible news. Hope he has a Westbrook/Jabari type recovery and doesn't lose any of his explosiveness. He has a great mix of good size, elite athleticism, solid handle and good shot. Gotta love that in a 21 year old with a great work ethic.

[d00lttle]

Out for the season.

If this isn't a jinx I don't know what is.

OP is to blame.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Out for the season.

If this isn't a jinx I don't know what is.

OP is to blame.

Ban this man!

[jc23]

OP please DONT start a thread on Jimmy Butler!

[rugbyrugger23]

Anyone who saw wolves play on semi regular occasion and thinks that LaVine can be a better player that Wiggins, please quit following basketball. Wiggins has so many more tools, it's not even funny. If Wiggins shoots poorly he still can get to the line a lot. When LaVine shoots poorly he's killed his team, completely useless. Wiggins can drive, shoot, post up, draws contact. Wiggins can be a menace on D once he learns it, the combo of length, leaping and quicks is just unreal. LaVine guards scrubs and gets killed. If Wiggins had higher motor it would never be a slightest of arguments.

Poor poor evaluation in this post. LaVine over 2.5 years has had an awesome progression and upward trajectory. He has a strong work ethic and to date, has done what has been asked of him (as for development: sharp shooting for example). And he has done this in a pull-up-your-boot-straps, lunch pail way. Not anointed like Wiggins. What do you think Wiggins progression curve looks like?

If you watch LaVine, defense no doubt is lacking...not from skill, rather fundamentals and instinct. I for one, think he can become a serviceable man-man defender, while getting better on team D...just will never be instinctual. It will come with time, coaching, and taking his lumps.

Can he be better player than Wiggins? Yes. Will he? Still to be decided. If his progression continues, he develops some D, and as the team develops, it might just happen. But if you think he can't, please quit following basketball.

What I wish would happen is Wiggins would challenge himself to be what the team needs. More Kawi, less Rudy Gay. He would use all those insane skills you mention, to elevate the team D as a whole (raise the tide--all boats rise). Imagine this Wolves team--what LaVine could do--with Kawi next to him?

[AssistRubio]

Who are the people that called Wiggins overrated? All I see is Wiggins dominating without Lavine.