College basketball and 2017 draft - One more poll after last game

[bwgood77]

What comments are you referring to? I'm not disagreeing, I just hadn't picked up on whatever it is that led you to this conclusion unless you're just suggesting he's too slow to fit our style. I see some value in him but personally I'd rather find a defensive presence than a scoring big.

I won't look for the quotes, but I clearly remember him defending the Era of positionless basketball where any player can play multiple positions and switch on everything.

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Not necessary, I remember the comments too. I just hadn't put them together with the idea of someone like Drummond. I do agree with it in principle too, we'd be far better off with someone like a healthy Noel than we would be with Drummond and that type.

Bender has the length, agility, quickness, and shot blocking ability that Noel has but is also can pass and is a better shooter who can stretch the floor.

Noel not too good in his contract year. Last five games for Dallas. 6.8ppg, 7.2rpg, 1.2 bpg, 1.2 spg...23 minutes They play better with Dirk at C and Barnes at PF.

[jcsunsfan]

I won't look for the quotes, but I clearly remember him defending the Era of positionless basketball where any player can play multiple positions and switch on everything.

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Not necessary, I remember the comments too. I just hadn't put them together with the idea of someone like Drummond. I do agree with it in principle too, we'd be far better off with someone like a healthy Noel than we would be with Drummond and that type.

Bender has the length, agility, quickness, and shot blocking ability that Noel has but is also can pass and is a better shooter who can stretch the floor.

Noel not too good in his contract year. Last five games for Dallas. 6.8ppg, 7.2rpg, 1.2 bpg, 1.2 spg...23 minutes They play better with Dirk at C and Barnes at PF.

I was going to say this. If you want positionless basketball, then Chriss and Bender are our future. In this draft, it would also be Fultz, who has the skills and size to play both guard positions. In the second round, you would be looking for someone like Jordan Bell who can defend all five positions, is a rim protector, decent rebounder, and a very good passer.

[NTB]

Not necessary, I remember the comments too. I just hadn't put them together with the idea of someone like Drummond. I do agree with it in principle too, we'd be far better off with someone like a healthy Noel than we would be with Drummond and that type.

Bender has the length, agility, quickness, and shot blocking ability that Noel has but is also can pass and is a better shooter who can stretch the floor.

Noel not too good in his contract year. Last five games for Dallas. 6.8ppg, 7.2rpg, 1.2 bpg, 1.2 spg...23 minutes They play better with Dirk at C and Barnes at PF.

I was going to say this. If you want positionless basketball, then Chriss and Bender are our future. In this draft, it would also be Fultz, who has the skills and size to play both guard positions. In the second round, you would be looking for someone like Jordan Bell who can defend all five positions, is a rim protector, decent rebounder, and a very good passer.

I think JJ is a good fit for positionless basketball too.

[bwgood77]

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[kennydorglas]

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Such a clown.

[Walt_Uoob]

None of these prospects are going to step in on day 1 and be better than Warren. JJ is a great college defender and should be a good pro defender, and is a solid passer, but no one is a sure thing.

Even if we draft him, it's extremely unlikely he'd ever start in year one (unless TJ was injured).

I feel like it's a little different with these gifted defenders like JJ though. Someone already mentioned Jimmy Butler getting a zillion minutes as a rookie because his defense was so valuable to the team. If JJ is that level of defender then it will be tough for the coaching staff to keep him out of the starting lineup for long, especially considering the defensive weaknesses and inexperience in the rest of the lineup and the fact that TJ profiles so well as a sixth man scorer.

[NTB]

None of these prospects are going to step in on day 1 and be better than Warren. JJ is a great college defender and should be a good pro defender, and is a solid passer, but no one is a sure thing.

Even if we draft him, it's extremely unlikely he'd ever start in year one (unless TJ was injured).

I feel like it's a little different with these gifted defenders like JJ though. Someone already mentioned Jimmy Butler getting a zillion minutes as a rookie because his defense was so valuable to the team. If JJ is that level of defender then it will be tough for the coaching staff to keep him out of the starting lineup for long, especially considering the defensive weaknesses and inexperience in the rest of the lineup and the fact that TJ profiles so well as a sixth man scorer.

We couldn't even let Tucker sit because we needed his defense.

[Zelaznyrules]

I won't look for the quotes, but I clearly remember him defending the Era of positionless basketball where any player can play multiple positions and switch on everything.

Enviado de meu SM-G935F usando Tapatalk

Not necessary, I remember the comments too. I just hadn't put them together with the idea of someone like Drummond. I do agree with it in principle too, we'd be far better off with someone like a healthy Noel than we would be with Drummond and that type.

Bender has the length, agility, quickness, and shot blocking ability that Noel has but is also can pass and is a better shooter who can stretch the floor.

Noel not too good in his contract year. Last five games for Dallas. 6.8ppg, 7.2rpg, 1.2 bpg, 1.2 spg...23 minutes They play better with Dirk at C and Barnes at PF.

Yeah, I'm not a big Noel fan, I've always thought he was merely decent and that's without considering the problematic knees. I just used him as an example of a long and tall player that is there for defense only and can switch up and down.

[bwgood77]

None of these prospects are going to step in on day 1 and be better than Warren. JJ is a great college defender and should be a good pro defender, and is a solid passer, but no one is a sure thing.

Even if we draft him, it's extremely unlikely he'd ever start in year one (unless TJ was injured).

I feel like it's a little different with these gifted defenders like JJ though. Someone already mentioned Jimmy Butler getting a zillion minutes as a rookie because his defense was so valuable to the team. If JJ is that level of defender then it will be tough for the coaching staff to keep him out of the starting lineup for long, especially considering the defensive weaknesses and inexperience in the rest of the lineup and the fact that TJ profiles so well as a sixth man scorer.

Butler averaged 8.5 mpg as a rookie, played in 42, and started none. He only started 20 games his second year. I would expect it to go something like that.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html

[Walt_Uoob]

None of these prospects are going to step in on day 1 and be better than Warren. JJ is a great college defender and should be a good pro defender, and is a solid passer, but no one is a sure thing.

Even if we draft him, it's extremely unlikely he'd ever start in year one (unless TJ was injured).

I feel like it's a little different with these gifted defenders like JJ though. Someone already mentioned Jimmy Butler getting a zillion minutes as a rookie because his defense was so valuable to the team. If JJ is that level of defender then it will be tough for the coaching staff to keep him out of the starting lineup for long, especially considering the defensive weaknesses and inexperience in the rest of the lineup and the fact that TJ profiles so well as a sixth man scorer.

Butler averaged 8.5 mpg as a rookie, played in 42, and started none. He only started 20 games his second year. I would expect it to go something like that.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html

Haha oops! Thanks for the fact check. Should have looked that up myself.

Kawhi got 24mpg and 39 starts his first year, so maybe he's an optimistic rookie year comp for JJ.

We're also not a very good team and would be taking him with a top-4 pick, so there'd be some additional expectation to start him I would think. The Bulls and Spurs took Butler and Kawhi much later in the draft and were both 50-win teams their rookie year. Wiggins isn't a very similar player and doesn't support my "gifted defender" argument, but he started all 82 his rookie year and averaged 36 mpg.

So I dunno, maybe being a gifted defender as opposed to a scorer doesn't matter, but I'd still bet if we draft JJ his playing time is at least 20mpg and he's starting by mid-season.

[DirtyDez]

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Lonzo looks embarrasssed. That would be funny if he signed with Nike it UA right after he gets drafted.

[bwgood77]

I feel like it's a little different with these gifted defenders like JJ though. Someone already mentioned Jimmy Butler getting a zillion minutes as a rookie because his defense was so valuable to the team. If JJ is that level of defender then it will be tough for the coaching staff to keep him out of the starting lineup for long, especially considering the defensive weaknesses and inexperience in the rest of the lineup and the fact that TJ profiles so well as a sixth man scorer.

Butler averaged 8.5 mpg as a rookie, played in 42, and started none. He only started 20 games his second year. I would expect it to go something like that.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html

Haha oops! Thanks for the fact check. Should have looked that up myself.

Kawhi got 24mpg and 39 starts his first year, so maybe he's an optimistic rookie year comp for JJ.

We're also not a very good team and would be taking him with a top-4 pick, so there'd be some additional expectation to start him I would think. The Bulls and Spurs took Butler and Kawhi much later in the draft and were both 50-win teams their rookie year. Wiggins isn't a very similar player and doesn't support my "gifted defender" argument, but he started all 82 his rookie year and averaged 36 mpg.

So I dunno, maybe being a gifted defender as opposed to a scorer doesn't matter, but I'd still bet if we draft JJ his playing time is at least 20mpg and he's starting by mid-season.

Yeah, if he starts mid season like Kawhi did, and that is the optimistic comp, that's obviously extremely optimistic since we are talking about a DPOY and MVP candidate.

I kind of think TJ has gotten a raw deal here for many reasons, partially because after that crazy 48 win season in Len's rookie year, we were expecting the playoffs the following year, starting PJ, playing Marcus a lot, and he just didn't get much of an opportunity. And then last year, once again, playoffs goal, we are terrible, FINALLY he starts for 4 games, and then goes down for injury. This year, starts out on fire and easily our best player, has freak strange injury, is out of sorts, and is now back to form shooting extremely efficiently, grabbing boards, getting steals, etc. He also seems to be vastly under appreciated by fans. He has started a total of 57 games in 3 years, and mostly not because he didn't deserve to.

I do agree we definitely need a defensive wing, and I am very high on JJ, but I don't think that just means they will suddenly relegate TJ back to the bench or trade him. In time it makes sense to start a defensive wing next to Booker if Booker doesn't vastly improve his defense, but I hardly doubt they will start a rookie again next year. At least to start the year or if someone is injured.

[Saberestar]

None of these prospects are going to step in on day 1 and be better than Warren. JJ is a great college defender and should be a good pro defender, and is a solid passer, but no one is a sure thing.

Even if we draft him, it's extremely unlikely he'd ever start in year one (unless TJ was injured).

I feel like it's a little different with these gifted defenders like JJ though. Someone already mentioned Jimmy Butler getting a zillion minutes as a rookie because his defense was so valuable to the team. If JJ is that level of defender then it will be tough for the coaching staff to keep him out of the starting lineup for long, especially considering the defensive weaknesses and inexperience in the rest of the lineup and the fact that TJ profiles so well as a sixth man scorer.

I am the only one that thinks that Josh Jackson is not THAT good of a prospect?

The last few days I have been watching tapes of Fultz (great), Dennis Smith Jr. (I don't like him) and Josh Jackson.

57% at the free throw line? Over 20 years old as a freshman? Off the court issues?

Defensively he goes for the steal at every moment, he loses position a lot of times. Not impress with his IQ on defense and his passing and vision is overrated IMO. He gets assists because the system, they play a lot of high post/low post between their frontcourt players.

He is a good prospect, but I just don't see that huge upside. I need to study him better, but at the moment I don't think he is a Top 3 pick.

[bwgood77]

None of these prospects are going to step in on day 1 and be better than Warren. JJ is a great college defender and should be a good pro defender, and is a solid passer, but no one is a sure thing.

Even if we draft him, it's extremely unlikely he'd ever start in year one (unless TJ was injured).

I feel like it's a little different with these gifted defenders like JJ though. Someone already mentioned Jimmy Butler getting a zillion minutes as a rookie because his defense was so valuable to the team. If JJ is that level of defender then it will be tough for the coaching staff to keep him out of the starting lineup for long, especially considering the defensive weaknesses and inexperience in the rest of the lineup and the fact that TJ profiles so well as a sixth man scorer.

I am the only one that thinks that Josh Jackson is not THAT good of a prospect?

The last few days I have been watching tapes of Fultz (great), Dennis Smith Jr. (please, NO) and Josh Jackson.

57% at the free throw line? Over 20 years as a freshman? Off the court issues?

Defensively he goes for the steal at every moment, he loses position a lot of times. Not impress with his IQ on defense and his passing and vision is overrated IMO. He gets assists because the system, they play a lot of high post/low post between their frontcourt players.

He is a good prospect, but I just don't see that huge upside. I need to study him better, but at the moment I don't think he is a Top 3 pick.

I haven't watched him enough to know either way. I am just basing my thoughts on what the rankings are and what I read, so far. After the season and especially after the playoffs wind down I will start watching everyone a lot. It seems like everyone else here must have spent a lot of time watching him though. I like various things about all the top 10 or so though, from what I've read, except Monk. So I won't likely be disappointed unless we get the first pick and pass up on Fultz (though I haven't seen him much either, but being the consensus clear cut #1 pick by all analysts and scouts that nationally write, I'd hate to pass that up, especially since so many question how Ball will translate. And yes, Jackson's off court issues are a red flag and may be a huge red flag for the Suns.

[bwgood77]

Wait, why IS Josh Jackson 20 years old as a freshman? That's old. He's three months younger than Booker.

[Marcus]

None of these prospects are going to step in on day 1 and be better than Warren. JJ is a great college defender and should be a good pro defender, and is a solid passer, but no one is a sure thing.

Even if we draft him, it's extremely unlikely he'd ever start in year one (unless TJ was injured).

I feel like it's a little different with these gifted defenders like JJ though. Someone already mentioned Jimmy Butler getting a zillion minutes as a rookie because his defense was so valuable to the team. If JJ is that level of defender then it will be tough for the coaching staff to keep him out of the starting lineup for long, especially considering the defensive weaknesses and inexperience in the rest of the lineup and the fact that TJ profiles so well as a sixth man scorer.

I am the only one that thinks that Josh Jackson is not THAT good of a prospect?

The last few days I have been watching tapes of Fultz (great), Dennis Smith Jr. (I don't like him) and Josh Jackson.

57% at the free throw line? Over 20 years old as a freshman? Off the court issues?

Defensively he goes for the steal at every moment, he loses position a lot of times. Not impress with his IQ on defense and his passing and vision is overrated IMO. He gets assists because the system, they play a lot of high post/low post between their frontcourt players.

He is a good prospect, but I just don't see that huge upside. I need to study him better, but at the moment I don't think he is a Top 3 pick.

how much Josh have you actually watched? BTW this isn't a question to be combative just asking because I've been watching the kid for a few years now so when I see these questions arise about his game I'd like to know how familiar a person really is with the prospect's game.

[Marcus]

Wait, why IS Josh Jackson 20 years old as a freshman? That's old. He's three months younger than Booker.

does that make a significant difference?

[kennydorglas]

Wait, why IS Josh Jackson 20 years old as a freshman? That's old. He's three months younger than Booker.

Yep, he was almost a 20yo freshman (Basketball-reference uses February 1st as a guideline)
It's really weird because he played with Mykhailiuk who is a 19yo JUNIOR lol

[Marcus]

Wait, why IS Josh Jackson 20 years old as a freshman? That's old. He's three months younger than Booker.

Yep, he was almost a 20yo freshman (Basketball-reference uses February 1st as a guideline)
It's really weird because he played with Mykhailiuk who is a 19yo JUNIOR lol

Svi showed up as a 17 yr old freshman, same as Azubuike this year.

[bwgood77]

Wait, why IS Josh Jackson 20 years old as a freshman? That's old. He's three months younger than Booker.

does that make a significant difference?

Well it might make a difference in how quickly he is adapting relative to other freshmen. Shabazz dominated his classes for years too due to being a year older and was rated very highly on the draft boards for awhile.