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CrowderKeg wrote:London2Boston wrote:Who was the member that was willing to make love with Mama Durant for the cause of bringing KD here last year? Keep him away from Wifey Hayward
No idea what you're talking about.
PierceFan4ever wrote: Our fans are the best
Gant wrote:Captain_Caveman wrote:Curmudgeon wrote:
It's a significant advantge. First, NBA teams play 41 home games. So (in the case of a player on a Florida team) 50% of current earned income is apportioned to Florida. Some is apportioned to other states with no state income tax, e.g. Texas. Second, Hayward almost certainly has income from a portfolio of investments made from the money he earned in prior years (unless his agent is a complete boob). In Massachusetts, cap gains from those investments are taxed at !2%, which is tacked on to the federal rate. (Short-term cap gains are taxed by the feds as ordinary income. Long-term gains are taxed at 20% for taxpayers in the highest brackets.) Third, any dividends from stock or other investments are not taxed in Florida. Neither are royalties or any other form of income characterized as "ordinary" by the IRS. Fourth, depending on where he lives, local property taxes are much lower in Florida. Municipal services are cheaper (e.g. no snow removal, lower labor costs) and per pupil expenditures in the schools are lower.
Of course there are tradeoffs. If he comes to Boston and lives in Weston, Wellesley or one of the other toney Western suburbs, he can send his kids to the public schools, which are outstanding. If he lives in the Miami area, he probably has to put them in private schools if he wants the best education for them. Also, states with no income tax tend to have regressive state sales taxes. He will pay no sales tax in Massachusetts on food purchased in a grocery store (with some exceptions) although he will pay 6.25% on restaurant meals. In Florida the tax is 6% on everything.
Walking it back a bit to state income tax, still overstated as I understand it. First chart is state tax rates by team. Second chart is adjusted for the schedule of where each team plays its games. On top of that, there are tax credits on the "out-of-state" state taxes you pay in your road games in "tax states" that are not available to players in "no tax states". This brings the state income tax difference down to 1% or so between teams like Miami and Boston. May be a more pronounced advantage over teams like the Knicks or Kings, but not so much us.
As to the higher cost of living and capital gains and the rest, yes, a similar advantage exists, but also easy to overstate. As you said, there are tradeoffs, but there are also loopholes and workarounds and tax credits similar to what I mentioned above.
All told, unless he is the most successful investor alive, we are talking a difference of a few million dollars, to a guy who will probably make $300m+ in his career from salary and endorsements.
Taking a look at that chart above, state tax rate has nothing to do with attracting or losing free agents. Historically, some of the most attractive destinations are found with the highest rates.
It might or might not have mattered for an individual player here or there, but over all, it hasn't mattered at all. Look at the Lakers and Warriors tax rate. Orlando is at 0%, and lost Shaq to high tax California. Durant also went to California. LeBron went to a lower tax state, and then back to a higher one. Last year Horford chose Massachusetts over Texas.
78. Are teams really competing on a level playing field? Since the tax rate is different in the different states and Canada, don't the teams in a more "tax friendly" state have an advantage over the other teams?
Yes they do. For example, an offer from Orlando will provide a higher net income than the same offer from Los Angeles, because the player will play at least half his games in a state with no state income tax. But the advantage is not quite as large as you might expect, because most jurisdictions with NBA teams require visiting athletes to pay state income taxes (often called a "jock tax") for each "duty day" they spend there. There is not a universal definition for a duty day, but it is generally considered to be any day the player spends in a particular jurisdiction, including for preseason, regular season and postseason games. For example, if there are 170 duty days in a season and a player plays five of those duty days in a state with a jock tax, then the player will pay state income taxes in that state based on 5/170 of his income.1
Currently:
Florida (Heat and Magic), Tennessee (Grizzlies) and Texas (Mavericks, Rockets and Spurs) have no state income tax.
Florida (Heat and Magic), Ontario (Raptors), Tennessee (Grizzlies), Texas (Mavericks, Rockets and Spurs) and Washington D.C. (Wizards) do not make visiting athletes pay a jock tax.
Illinois (Bulls) does not make visiting athletes pay a jock tax if they come from jurisdictions without a jock tax. However, Illinois does not credit its residents for jock taxes paid out of state, so Bulls players can be double-taxed for some road games.
The league also has regulations to help neutralize the tax disadvantage of Canadian teams, and there is language in the CBA to help protect players' benefits from any adverse effects caused by changes in Canadian legislation or tax laws.
Incidentally, players are always paid in U.S. dollars, even if their team is located in Canada.
1 Tax laws are nuanced and complicated, and vary considerably from state to state. For this reason it is very difficult to determine a player's net income based on his salary and the state in which his team plays. For example, California does not exempt players from taxes on income earned while playing in other states. Instead it nets jock taxes paid in other states against California taxes, so a player based in California may owe taxes to two states for the same road games.
Froob wrote:Friends is like Kyle Lowry, everyone says it's amazing but you sit down and watch it and you're just like meh...
GuyClinch wrote: Regulation is mostly to blame - also excessive medical costs.
sam_I_am wrote:Surprised there isn't a 50 page thread about Hayward's wife posting a pic of their daughter in a Celtic shirt today
Fencer reregistered wrote:sam_I_am wrote:Surprised there isn't a 50 page thread about Hayward's wife posting a pic of their daughter in a Celtic shirt today
Was it a Celtic shirt or a pro-environment one?
sam_I_am wrote:Surprised there isn't a 50 page thread about Hayward's wife posting a pic of their daughter in a Celtic shirt today
chrisab123 wrote:I felt until last week Hayward was going to be a Celtic. But now I feel that he's going to Miami. Just a few things going against the Celtics here.
1) Weather
2) Nightlife (yes I know he's married)
3) No State Income Tax
4) Most importantly Pat Riley.
Pat Riley can be very convincing. He might be able to sell Hayward on perhaps a new big three with him Whiteside and whoever they deal Dragic and others for. The NBA has made it a thing to essentially label the Heat as Lakers East. I'm just not going to be shocked when he holds up a Heat Jersey. Even though I hope he comes to Boston.
If they "only" end up with Blake I'm fine with that too. They just need to get shooting to go along with Blake Griffin.
165bows wrote:CrowderKeg wrote:London2Boston wrote:Who was the member that was willing to make love with Mama Durant for the cause of bringing KD here last year? Keep him away from Wifey Hayward
No idea what you're talking about.
Listen we don't have to assume his gender, the poster could be a woman for all we know.
Slartibartfast wrote:sam_I_am wrote:Surprised there isn't a 50 page thread about Hayward's wife posting a pic of their daughter in a Celtic shirt today
The #1 pick is sucking all the oxygen out of the other offseason plans.
165bows wrote:
For reference, Crowder dunked the ball 13 times all season, while Horford and Amir lead the team with 41 apiece.
The Celtics as a team had 211 dunks all season, so Hayward had a third as many dunks on the season as Boston's entire club.
Griffin FWIW had 68 dunks in 61 games, and has averaged about 1 dunk/game for the last three years, after being 2-3 dunks/game for the first four years of his career.
All this leads to Amir Johnson being the dunks/minute leader in the clubhouse last year, a bit of a depressing find.
dei1c3 wrote:chrisab123 wrote:I felt until last week Hayward was going to be a Celtic. But now I feel that he's going to Miami. Just a few things going against the Celtics here.
1) Weather
2) Nightlife (yes I know he's married)
3) No State Income Tax
4) Most importantly Pat Riley.
Pat Riley can be very convincing. He might be able to sell Hayward on perhaps a new big three with him Whiteside and whoever they deal Dragic and others for. The NBA has made it a thing to essentially label the Heat as Lakers East. I'm just not going to be shocked when he holds up a Heat Jersey. Even though I hope he comes to Boston.
If they "only" end up with Blake I'm fine with that too. They just need to get shooting to go along with Blake Griffin.
You could be right. But if Hayward is stupid enough to think Hassan Whiteside is a potential "Big 3" type of player, I don't think I want him to come here.
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Posted this in Hayward/Griffin thread, repeating here -
Sign and trade possibilities overhyped - if you factor in BYC rules, the only way we can get Hayward through a sign and trade is if Utah drops down under the cap (George Hill would have to bail, and they might even have to renounce some of their other free agents) - then we have to get to about 24 million to match salary, but our free agents are BYC-capped, too, which means:
Amir: 14.4 million
Jerebko: 6.25 million
Olynyk: 4.1-ish million
Zeller: 8 million
Demetrius Jackson: 1.38 million
Jordan Mickey: 1.47 million
Yabu: 2.25 million
(Rozier: 1.98 million)
(Jae Crowder: 6.79 million)
Olynyk won't take 4.1 million to go to Utah, so we're talking about Amir, Jerebko, Jackson, Mickey, and either Yabu or Rozier to match salary-
That theoretically lets us keep Kelly as a rotation big, and we can keep Zeller's contract to help match salary in trades.
But it's going to be a slim margin of error to be able to do a sign and trade, and we might be better off just signing Hayward outright.
easy buckets, especially dunks, have been the hallmark of many champions165bows wrote:
For reference, Crowder dunked the ball 13 times all season, while Horford and Amir lead the team with 41 apiece.
The Celtics as a team had 211 dunks all season, so Hayward had a third as many dunks on the season as Boston's entire club.
Griffin FWIW had 68 dunks in 61 games, and has averaged about 1 dunk/game for the last three years, after being 2-3 dunks/game for the first four years of his career.
All this leads to Amir Johnson being the dunks/minute leader in the clubhouse last year, a bit of a depressing find.
