Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

[AtheJ415]

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Oh, I hope so, or ya know, we could always TRADE Chandler and keep Monroe. Somebody please tell me what a 35 YO Chandler has over a 27 YO Monroe?

http://bkref.com/tiny/xVJwo

And before anyone mentions anything about offense, Monroe an actually shoot the ball beyond 3 feet. He also has a better DRtg (105 vs 109), more Stls, Blks, and Assts (per36) than Chandler. He has a higher FT%, lower PFs, and higher PTS. Yes, he avgs 25% less TRBs, and more TOs, but his Asst/TOV ratio vs Chandler is better (3.7/2.8...vs...0.8/1.8); which would you rather have?

Then add in Monroe's advantage in PER, WS, DBPM/OBPM, etc. and to me, it's an easy choice. Plus, $17+M for one year beats $13M over 2 for Chandler.

I swear, Chandler has pics, recorded audio/video, or some evidence of McD doing something shady, because this dude gets more opportunities than Len does, even though Len is clearly the better player at this point.

I agree, but at the same time I'd rather those 5 minutes go to Bender or Chriss than Monroe. I like Monroe a little as a player (though not at his salary). The issue is, he hurts your tank today and likely is playing for a contract elsewhere. So his purpose on this particular team is pretty limited. I think if Tyson was movable he would have been dealt already. I have an issue attaching anything more than a 2nd to move Tyson though because we are targeting 2019 FA (for good reason. There will be a lot more for us to potentially add in that class than 2018), and so getting off his salary doesn't help THAT much. It really just gives us the flexibility to take on a larger bad deal for maybe a better pick.

[lilfishi22]

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This is obvious. Who has decided to play for the QO for their team because they team won't give them a contract they are satisfied with, and then they stayed with the team?

Answer: Nobody

That's why when people continue to say "See what we have in Len" I think "we have a guy playing on the QO who will try and find a contract somewhere else".

That being said, the market is not good for centers, so good luck to him. There are not many teams with cap space (6-8 maybe?) and you have Boogie, Brook Lopez, Monroe, Noel, Okafor, Zaza Pachulia, Javale McGee, and restricted: Capela, Noguiera,

Considering we don't have any other long term options at the 5, I don't have issues giving Len solid minutes. I don't think Bender is ready to play the 5 full time right now.

[bwgood77]

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Oh, I hope so, or ya know, we could always TRADE Chandler and keep Monroe. Somebody please tell me what a 35 YO Chandler has over a 27 YO Monroe?

http://bkref.com/tiny/xVJwo

And before anyone mentions anything about offense, Monroe an actually shoot the ball beyond 3 feet. He also has a better DRtg (105 vs 109), more Stls, Blks, and Assts (per36) than Chandler. He has a higher FT%, lower PFs, and higher PTS. Yes, he avgs 25% less TRBs, and more TOs, but his Asst/TOV ratio vs Chandler is better (3.7/2.8...vs...0.8/1.8); which would you rather have?

Then add in Monroe's advantage in PER, WS, DBPM/OBPM, etc. and to me, it's an easy choice. Plus, $17+M for one year beats $13M over 2 for Chandler.

I swear, Chandler has pics, recorded audio/video, or some evidence of McD doing something shady, because this dude gets more opportunities than Len does, even though Len is clearly the better player at this point.

What does Chandler have over Monroe? A contract past this summer. I think many would like it better if we didn't have it, but we do. What makes you think we "could" keep Monroe? He's an unrestricted FA who has zero ties to Phx. Would you have wanted to make a big run at Monroe before we traded for him?

[AtheJ415]

Just start Bender at the 5. My future lineup if we get a top 3 pick this year has him there anyways.

Booker
Doncic or Porter
Jackson or Warren
Warren or Chriss
Bender

Or

Booker
Jackson
Warren
Bagley
Bender

[TeamTragic]

Not a chance Sarver/McD help the Lakers in any way, shape or form. Not happening.

[AtheJ415]

If we extend Booker this summer, is his new salary counted during 2019 free agency or his old since the new year hasn't started yet?

Because if it doesn't count yet, we're currently projected to have close to $50 million in cap room and we can target guys like Kemba Walker, Ricky Rubio, Hassan Whiteside (player option), Marc Gasol (player option), DeAndre Jordan, Nikola Vucevic who can all be UFA if they so choose.

So when he signs his contract this offseason he will have a PPP contract, which stands for Poison Pill Provision. You can read about it here.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q91

But basically in 2019 his salary if he is maxed, will be 27million which counts in the summer of 2019.

Then we need to have a under the table handshake agreement with him to hold off on signing an extension until after free agency so we can go out and sign 1-2 of those guys I mentioned.

That's not really what the link says anyways. It says that the poison pill applies if a player is signed for the max and then traded before the extension kicks in. That won't be the case with Booker since we aren't trading him. A poison pill contract shouldn't apply against your own team if you are extending the player at the max and keeping him.

[bwgood77]

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This is obvious. Who has decided to play for the QO for their team because they team won't give them a contract they are satisfied with, and then they stayed with the team?

Answer: Nobody

That's why when people continue to say "See what we have in Len" I think "we have a guy playing on the QO who will try and find a contract somewhere else".

That being said, the market is not good for centers, so good luck to him. There are not many teams with cap space (6-8 maybe?) and you have Boogie, Brook Lopez, Monroe, Noel, Okafor, Zaza Pachulia, Javale McGee, and restricted: Capela, Noguiera,

Considering we don't have any other long term options at the 5, I don't have issues giving Len solid minutes. I don't think Bender is ready to play the 5 full time right now.

Nor do I. I'm just acknowledging that even if we wanted him this summer, I'm guessing he'd probably rather be elsewhere, so investing time in him as opposed to people who might be here wouldn't make sense. Chandler won't be here long term but there is a better chance he will be here next year so chemistry and continuity is good.

However, he can't play the whole game and if he's injured, yeah there are not any options with Williams out (if Monroe isn't playing).

[jcsunsfan]

This is obvious. Who has decided to play for the QO for their team because they team won't give them a contract they are satisfied with, and then they stayed with the team?

Answer: Nobody

That's why when people continue to say "See what we have in Len" I think "we have a guy playing on the QO who will try and find a contract somewhere else".

That being said, the market is not good for centers, so good luck to him. There are not many teams with cap space (6-8 maybe?) and you have Boogie, Brook Lopez, Monroe, Noel, Okafor, Zaza Pachulia, Javale McGee, and restricted: Capela, Noguiera,

Considering we don't have any other long term options at the 5, I don't have issues giving Len solid minutes. I don't think Bender is ready to play the 5 full time right now.

Nor do I. I'm just acknowledging that even if we wanted him this summer, I'm guessing he'd probably rather be elsewhere, so investing time in him as opposed to people who might be here wouldn't make sense. Chandler won't be here long term but there is a better chance he will be here next year so chemistry and continuity is good.

However, he can't play the whole game and if he's injured, yeah there are not any options with Williams out (if Monroe isn't playing).

I absolutely hate that sig banner btw.

[NavLDO]

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Not the best game to lose Chandler. Whiteside is gonna be a problem.

Len had 4 BLKs last year in his one game pitted against Whiteside. The Suns lost, and Whiteside had a good game, but it wasn't Len, as Len slashed 12/11, and again, 4 BLKs. The year prior, in Mar, Len slashed 12/13 with a Blk, while Whiteside slashed 9/11, with 5 Blks. The before THAT, Len slashed 10/11, with 2 STLs, and Whiteside, 17/10, with 2 STLs.

Anyway, it's not as if he's eaten Len for lunch anymore than he has Chandler,and at least Len produced in those games, as well.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Buy out or trade Monroe?

McDuh kicks the talent can down the street once again. Monroe is a talented scorer, a good rebounder, and perhaps the best PF we’ve had on this roster since..... Stat? Banking on Chris and Bender will cost McD his job

Well monroe should never ever play PF in the modern NBA. Hes a c only. Now I do agree he can score and rebound and I wouldn't mind kicking the tires on him. But realisticly theres very little chance he's part of the long term solution.

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[JMac1]

Would love to give Okafor a run for an early 2nd rounder!

[dremill24]

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This is obvious. Who has decided to play for the QO for their team because they team won't give them a contract they are satisfied with, and then they stayed with the team?

Answer: Nobody

That's why when people continue to say "See what we have in Len" I think "we have a guy playing on the QO who will try and find a contract somewhere else".

That being said, the market is not good for centers, so good luck to him. There are not many teams with cap space (6-8 maybe?) and you have Boogie, Brook Lopez, Monroe, Noel, Okafor, Zaza Pachulia, Javale McGee, and restricted: Capela, Noguiera,

I have a thought this SO many times reading this board lately lol.

[OGBAH]

FREE JAH!!!

[NTB]

I want Bamba from top 5. (its too early though)

This would be a good lineup imo:

D'Angelo
Booker
Jackson
Bender
Bamba

[Kerrsed]

Ok, here are my thoughts:

- If Gambo is right, and all signs point to it, Since Len wont be a Sun next season, doesnt it make more sense to buy him out (At a much much lower price) rather than Monroe (Who can still be traded as a very large expiring). I mean when it comes to trades, i think Monroes expiring is way more valuable than Len's. So if we do need to cut someone to make room for James, i think buying out Len makes the most sense even though he is playing a hell of a lot better than Chandler or Monroe.

- Monroe for Okafor. Puts them above the cap floor and gives them a back-up for Embiid for the season. Gives us a roll of the dice on a very offensive-minded C for a season. Will require a 2nd round pick, which we have PLENTY to spare.

- Give Okafor all the minutes he wants (Over Chandler). Look for a Chandler trade. We wont get a lot in return (Maybe a 2nd round pick), but once again its another "Do right by the player" move. Big Sauce will be back later to claim his back-up C status.

[bwgood77]

I want Bamba from top 5. (its too early though)

This would be a good lineup imo:

D'Angelo
Booker
Jackson
Bender
Bamba

And how does D'Angelo get here? Or did you mean the Ball brother Li'Angelo with one of the other picks?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Ok, here are my thoughts:

- If Gambo is right, and all signs point to it, Since Len wont be a Sun next season, doesnt it make more sense to buy him out (At a much much lower price) rather than Monroe (Who can still be traded as a very large expiring). I mean when it comes to trades, i think Monroes expiring is way more valuable than Len's. So if we do need to cut someone to make room for James, i think buying out Len makes the most sense even though he is playing a hell of a lot better than Chandler or Monroe.

- Monroe for Okafor. Puts them above the cap floor and gives them a back-up for Embiid for the season. Gives us a roll of the dice on a very offensive-minded C for a season. Will require a 2nd round pick, which we have PLENTY to spare.

- Give Okafor all the minutes he wants (Over Chandler). Look for a Chandler trade. We wont get a lot in return (Maybe a 2nd round pick), but once again its another "Do right by the player" move. Big Sauce will be back later to claim his back-up C status.

Well buying out len would be kind of funny since they could have simply pulled the QO this summer and not paid him at all.

I'm not sure why its some foregone conclusion he won't be back. His market next summer will be limited and the suns would have his bird rights so they would remain a possibility. Now I think the suns currently employ 4 backup centers and this is a good center draft so it might be as simple as draft your starter next year and have williams as your backup.

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[Kerrsed]

Ok, here are my thoughts:

- If Gambo is right, and all signs point to it, Since Len wont be a Sun next season, doesnt it make more sense to buy him out (At a much much lower price) rather than Monroe (Who can still be traded as a very large expiring). I mean when it comes to trades, i think Monroes expiring is way more valuable than Len's. So if we do need to cut someone to make room for James, i think buying out Len makes the most sense even though he is playing a hell of a lot better than Chandler or Monroe.

- Monroe for Okafor. Puts them above the cap floor and gives them a back-up for Embiid for the season. Gives us a roll of the dice on a very offensive-minded C for a season. Will require a 2nd round pick, which we have PLENTY to spare.

- Give Okafor all the minutes he wants (Over Chandler). Look for a Chandler trade. We wont get a lot in return (Maybe a 2nd round pick), but once again its another "Do right by the player" move. Big Sauce will be back later to claim his back-up C status.

Well buying out len would be kind of funny since they could have simply pulled the QO this summer and not paid him at all.

I'm not sure why its some foregone conclusion he won't be back. His market next summer will be limited and the suns would have his bird rights so they would remain a possibility. Now I think the suns currently employ 4 backup centers and this is a good center draft so it might be as simple as draft your starter next year and have williams as your backup.

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Eh, we took on his QO because we needed a C with Sauce going down to injury. We really didnt have any other options.

To me, as i was saying on the GB, Len = Mozgov. A player that has the tools, just doesnt know how to put them all together. He might have a good game here and there, but he lacks any consistency and his play is usually more sub-par than it is good. Now the Lakers got suckered into giving Moz that crazy contract, where we didnt fall for the hype.

And as you noted, there is going to be a very small market for him. He has been worse than a lot of other C's that will also be on the market, and who also have had a hard time finding a good role on a team or securing a longer deal. So i see him as being at the tail end of those guys.

[lilfishi22]

Ok, here are my thoughts:

- If Gambo is right, and all signs point to it, Since Len wont be a Sun next season, doesnt it make more sense to buy him out (At a much much lower price) rather than Monroe (Who can still be traded as a very large expiring). I mean when it comes to trades, i think Monroes expiring is way more valuable than Len's. So if we do need to cut someone to make room for James, i think buying out Len makes the most sense even though he is playing a hell of a lot better than Chandler or Monroe.

- Monroe for Okafor. Puts them above the cap floor and gives them a back-up for Embiid for the season. Gives us a roll of the dice on a very offensive-minded C for a season. Will require a 2nd round pick, which we have PLENTY to spare.

- Give Okafor all the minutes he wants (Over Chandler). Look for a Chandler trade. We wont get a lot in return (Maybe a 2nd round pick), but once again its another "Do right by the player" move. Big Sauce will be back later to claim his back-up C status.

Well buying out len would be kind of funny since they could have simply pulled the QO this summer and not paid him at all.

I'm not sure why its some foregone conclusion he won't be back. His market next summer will be limited and the suns would have his bird rights so they would remain a possibility. Now I think the suns currently employ 4 backup centers and this is a good center draft so it might be as simple as draft your starter next year and have williams as your backup.

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I agree. I acknowledge that all things points towards him moving on but his return hasn't been ruled out, even in that tweet from Gambo. As you said, the market isn't particularly hot for big stumbling 5's without range but that's why resigning him to a Big Sauce level deal makes sense to me. If we don't end up with a C in the next draft, then bringing him back makes even more sense (granted the money makes sense)

[NavLDO]

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Oh, I hope so, or ya know, we could always TRADE Chandler and keep Monroe. Somebody please tell me what a 35 YO Chandler has over a 27 YO Monroe?

http://bkref.com/tiny/xVJwo

And before anyone mentions anything about offense, Monroe an actually shoot the ball beyond 3 feet. He also has a better DRtg (105 vs 109), more Stls, Blks, and Assts (per36) than Chandler. He has a higher FT%, lower PFs, and higher PTS. Yes, he avgs 25% less TRBs, and more TOs, but his Asst/TOV ratio vs Chandler is better (3.7/2.8...vs...0.8/1.8); which would you rather have?

Then add in Monroe's advantage in PER, WS, DBPM/OBPM, etc. and to me, it's an easy choice. Plus, $17+M for one year beats $13M over 2 for Chandler.

I swear, Chandler has pics, recorded audio/video, or some evidence of McD doing something shady, because this dude gets more opportunities than Len does, even though Len is clearly the better player at this point.

What does Chandler have over Monroe? A contract past this summer. I think many would like it better if we didn't have it, but we do. What makes you think we "could" keep Monroe? He's an unrestricted FA who has zero ties to Phx.

But hey, let's not think beyond just the SINGLE scenario of Monroe staying with us for the remainder of his contract, beyond this season. I mean, we don't have a Center under contract already, and we couldn't offer Len a contract at any time if we so chose, and there aren't like, 10 1st Rd Centers entering the draft this upcoming year. But heck, Len isn't guaranteed after this year either, let's trade him with Monroe, too, right?

Sometimes...sometimes, it's just about playing the better player, now, because, well, they are better. Not everything has to be planned for, for the next 3 years.