1/9 - POSTGAME | Portland Trail Blazers (117) - (106) Oklahoma City Thunder

[slick_watts]

And they wouldn't have gotten to the Spurs had Westbrook not bailed out 35. We saw this team without him in the postseason too.

sure. players have bad series. even great ones like kevin durant and russell westbrook. i'm not invaliding westbrook's ability to play like a star in the postseason, i'm questioning the reasoning behind suggesting kevin durant's performance against golden state (at least, on offense) was indicative of anything besides going up against a great team that gave him some trouble. as the spurs did to westbrook, etc. i do not think it's meaningful. you haven't expressed this particular point in this thread but i know that's a common criticism of kevin durant's "leadership".

I want a guy who stands by his teammates and leads by showing some form of passion and standing up or them in adversity.

kevin durant did this for years-- and the amusing part about it is that it was largely westbrook who benefited from it. you're basically retconning kevin durant's entire career due to his decision to go to the warriors which is not fair.

And I'm dropping it with you there because either we define terms different or you're doing what i called earlier

[bondom34]

And they wouldn't have gotten to the Spurs had Westbrook not bailed out 35. We saw this team without him in the postseason too.

sure. players have bad series. even great ones like kevin durant and russell westbrook. i'm not invaliding westbrook's ability to play like a star in the postseason, i'm questioning the reasoning behind suggesting kevin durant's performance against golden state (at least, on offense) was indicative of anything besides going up against a great team that gave him some trouble. as the spurs did to westbrook, etc. i do not think it's meaningful. you haven't expressed this particular point in this thread but i know that's a common criticism of kevin durant's "leadership".

I want a guy who stands by his teammates and leads by showing some form of passion and standing up or them in adversity.

kevin durant did this for years-- and the amusing part about it is that it was largely westbrook who benefited from it. you're basically retconning kevin durant's entire career due to his decision to go to the warriors which is not fair.

And I'm dropping it with you there because either we define terms different or you're doing what i called earlier

So I think were defining terms differently. Also not rethinking his career because of his decision. I've felt this way for years going back quite a ways. I stand by him being overrated to this day (he's a fantastic player but not the best on his own team and his team level impact is overstated imo).

[slick_watts]

So I think were defining terms differently. Also not rethinking his career because of his decision. I've felt this way for years going back quite a ways. I stand by him being overrated to this day (he's a fantastic player but not the best on his own team and his team level impact is overstated imo).

you completely are. the qualities you describe westbrook having that make him a good leader are one that kevin durant demonstrated for years and years on the thunder, much of the time in defense of westbrook himself!

of course you think his team level impact is overstated now.

[bondom34]

So I think were defining terms differently. Also not rethinking his career because of his decision. I've felt this way for years going back quite a ways. I stand by him being overrated to this day (he's a fantastic player but not the best on his own team and his team level impact is overstated imo).

you completely are. the qualities you describe westbrook having that make him a good leader are one that kevin durant demonstrated for years and years on the thunder, much of the time in defense of westbrook himself!

of course you think his team level impact is overstated now.

Actually he didn't. I always felt Westbrook was the leader of thos team. And not really sure why it matters who he struck up for if he should be doing so. He also did some very..not so great things which I have stated and mostly avoided criticism while Westbrook took it for years. We've been over this and I hope your memory lasts that long.

And he's overrated by people claiming hes better than Lebron or Curry. Or some dpoy player. His apm numbers have always shown this.

[slick_watts]

Actually he didn't. I always felt Westbrook was the leader of thos team.

that's an odd opinion. why would the inferior player be the leader? it'd be like saying paul george is the leader of the thunder this season.

And not really sure why it matters who he struck up for if he should be doing so.

lol it matters because you brought this up as a leadership criteria for westbrook...!

He also did some very..not so great things which I have stated.

umm... such as?

And he's overrated by people claiming hes better than Lebron or Curry. Or some dpoy player. His apm numbers have always shown this.

why is your baseline the opinion of idiots?

also you trust apm numbers too much.

[Thundershock88]

"that's an odd opinion. why would the inferior player be the leader? it'd be like saying paul george is the leader of the thunder this season."



Really? Leadership is merely based on talent level? I'm honestly baffled. Leadership is a personality trait. It has nothing to do with how well you are on a basketball court.

[bondom34]

Actually he didn't. I always felt Westbrook was the leader of thos team.

that's an odd opinion. why would the inferior player be the leader? it'd be like saying paul george is the leader of the thunder this season.

And not really sure why it matters who he struck up for if he should be doing so.

lol it matters because you brought this up as a leadership criteria for westbrook...!

He also did some very..not so great things which I have stated.

umm... such as?

And he's overrated by people claiming hes better than Lebron or Curry. Or some dpoy player. His apm numbers have always shown this.

why is your baseline the opinion of idiots?

also you trust apm numbers too much.

Leadership is not equivalent to basketball ability or natural talent. And I knew you're old but you know my points on Durant. If I need to restate them I suggest you get a memory test.

Westbrook took more of an outspoken role for years. Took blame and never said a word. I've been over it.

As for the opinions of idiots, why do you debate Roberson's value then? Because the same could be said there. As for apm it isn't everything but when a.trend emerges that carries for a decade it isn't nothing. For the same reason Draymond gets underrated he gets overrated. I know you trust the numbers yourself and this is an odd stance for you.

And.as you can see in the post above, skill and leadership arent related. I think a player can be a leader without being the most naturally gifted.

[Kizz Fastfists]

that's an odd opinion. why would the inferior player be the leader? it'd be like saying paul george is the leader of the thunder this season.

Wade was the leader of the Heat, but LeBron was the best player. Nick Collison and Perkins were leaders for OKC when they were way down in the pecking order for best player. The leader is not always the best player. Sometimes it is someone with a ring or some other experience or just someone with the personality to get on people, even the best player on the team, when they are slacking and not playing like they should. I could go to another sport and talk about David Ross being the leader of the Cubs WS winning team in 2016 and he was the backup catcher.

[bondom34]

that's an odd opinion. why would the inferior player be the leader? it'd be like saying paul george is the leader of the thunder this season.

Wade was the leader of the Heat, but LeBron was the best player. Nick Collison and Perkins were leaders for OKC when they were way down in the pecking order for best player. The leader is not always the best player. Sometimes it is someone with a ring or some other experience or just someone with the personality to get on people, even the best player on the team, when they are slacking and not playing like they should. I could go to another sport and talk about David Ross being the leader of the Cubs WS winning team in 2016 and he was the backup catcher.

I agree with this entirely but slick said it not me.

[slick_watts]

Leadership is not equivalent to basketball ability or natural talent.

think of the championship teams of the last 20 years. who were the leaders? invariably the best players. tim duncan, lebron james, stephen curry, kevin durant, kobe bryant, dirk nowitzki. very rarely is it otherwise. i think you'd need some serious evidence to convince anyone that westbrook was the leader of those teams in spite of his inferiority.

And I knew you're old but you know my points on Durant. If I need to restate them I suggest you get a memory test.

you don't need to do anything. you said you were stopping this discussion several times already. i have no clue what you're talking about.

Westbrook took more of an outspoken role for years. Took blame and never said a word. I've been over it.

westbrook was supported in his endeavors by kevin durant, the leader. he was not the leader, or else his outspokenness would have been a bigger problem. not being about to take blame is part of westbrook's problem by the way. outwardly he talks about it but on the court you can clearly see his true nature.

As for the opinions of idiots, why do you debate Roberson's value then? Because the same could be said there.

i don't qualify my opinions of andre roberson relative to the idiot fringe. dre is underrated in general, but not because there are idiots who believe he's not an nba player. kd isn't overrated because a few morons think he should be dpoy.

[slick_watts]

Wade was the leader of the Heat, but LeBron was the best player. Nick Collison and Perkins were leaders for OKC when they were way down in the pecking order for best player

there's a difference between being a leader and the leader. the heat followed lebron. the thunder followed durant. sure, there are veterans who are called on for sage wisdom or thrown a bone like perk was but at the end of the day the team was led by the best player.

[bondom34]

Leadership is not equivalent to basketball ability or natural talent.

think of the championship teams of the last 20 years. who were the leaders? invariably the best players. tim duncan, lebron james, stephen curry, kevin durant, kobe bryant, dirk nowitzki. very rarely is it otherwise. i think you'd need some serious evidence to convince anyone that westbrook was the leader of those teams in spite of his inferiority.

And I knew you're old but you know my points on Durant. If I need to restate them I suggest you get a memory test.

you don't need to do anything. you said you were stopping this discussion several times already. i have no clue what you're talking about.

Westbrook took more of an outspoken role for years. Took blame and never said a word. I've been over it.

westbrook was supported in his endeavors by kevin durant, the leader. he was not the leader, or else his outspokenness would have been a bigger problem. not being about to take blame is part of westbrook's problem by the way. outwardly he talks about it but on the court you can clearly see his true nature.

As for the opinions of idiots, why do you debate Roberson's value then? Because the same could be said there.

i don't qualify my opinions of andre roberson relative to the idiot fringe. dre is underrated in general, but not because there are idiots who believe he's not an nba player. kd isn't overrated because a few morons think he should be dpoy.

Green is GSWs leader. And you keep ranting so I simply reply. As for Dre no, actually he's properly rated by 99 percent of people yet you keep arguing with the 1 percent which is quite a double standard. Also well more than that think Durant is better than Curry when he hasn't been for years.

[bondom34]

...]

Oh and the hot take PGs you'd take over him keeps getting told off by everyone. Irving is a worse defender and playmaker, and Lillard is just flat worse. It's a sad attempt, and failed (again). But hey last time you said stupid crap about him he won MVP so maybe.