GT: Nets @ Raptors - Friday, 3/22/18, 7:30pm EST

[Prokorov]

bruh they were up 14. He let that bench drain the lead and give the game back to the Raptors. Missing free throws, allowing 3's.

By the time the starters came back in it was water poured on a flame.

Guys have to execute. The coach isn't going to play Russell/Crabbe/Carroll/RHJ/Allen 48 mins.

how do you execute w/ your flow being cut off by your coach?

bench guys need to step up. our bench has been solid all year, among the best in the league. levert, harris, dinwiddie... guys need to get it done. if they dont, thats not on the coach. id MUCH rather ride these guys/work with them/show trust in them then win 1 more meaingless game. we already topped last years total.

[Roy Tarpley]

i dont think that is "bad news" we are still ahead of scheudle and every. single. young. player. took big strides forward this year. this was only year 2 of a 6 year rebuild project and we are still 1 year away from owning our own picks.

next years focus is, will, and should be the same as this years. not measuring ourselves by wins but by develpment.

Yeah, I meant that if if the next season is ONLY about wins, then there's not much to draw on. Of course, next season is about wins AND development.

Kenny Atkinson said this morning about "wins":

“Anytime we get [a win] it’s a good thing,” said Atkinson. “It boosts our morale; it confirms what we’re doing – I felt like we played really well in Toronto and you don’t get over the hump there’s that frustration. There’s belief in our guys, but you want confirmation. We’re really making that jump, and when you don’t get the ‘W’ it just leads to a tiny bit of doubt – I don’t care who we’re playing, 1-29 in this league, it doesn’t really matter. These are the fun games to play because you really have nothing to lose.”

This season and next are about development AND wins, they're not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure if we can say that every single young player took a big stride forward this year. Allen, RHJ, and Levert did. Dlo and Crabbe sort of stagnated in my opinion.

[Prokorov]

i dont think that is "bad news" we are still ahead of scheudle and every. single. young. player. took big strides forward this year. this was only year 2 of a 6 year rebuild project and we are still 1 year away from owning our own picks.

next years focus is, will, and should be the same as this years. not measuring ourselves by wins but by develpment.

Yeah, I meant that if if the next season is ONLY about wins, then there's not much to draw on. Of course, next season is about wins AND development.

Kenny Atkinson said this morning about "wins":

“Anytime we get [a win] it’s a good thing,” said Atkinson. “It boosts our morale; it confirms what we’re doing – I felt like we played really well in Toronto and you don’t get over the hump there’s that frustration. There’s belief in our guys, but you want confirmation. We’re really making that jump, and when you don’t get the ‘W’ it just leads to a tiny bit of doubt – I don’t care who we’re playing, 1-29 in this league, it doesn’t really matter. These are the fun games to play because you really have nothing to lose.”

This season and next are about development AND wins, they're not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure if we can say that every single young player took a big stride forward this year. Allen, RHJ, and Levert did. Dlo and Crabbe sort of stagnated in my opinion.

Next year wont be about wins.... and kennys comments are about how winning helps, not how it is a focus. of course they want to develop and have wins. wins help. but the focus is development and asset aquisition.

as far as crabbe and Dlo. Dlo missed a ton of time to injury and had an outstanding month of march once healthy (17/5/4 and shot 40% from three on 83 attempts).

I'll give you crabbe.... he hasnt really been any better then alst year.... but dinwiddie, dlo, levert, rhj, allen, harris all showed some real progress.

[Roy Tarpley]

i dont think that is "bad news" we are still ahead of scheudle and every. single. young. player. took big strides forward this year. this was only year 2 of a 6 year rebuild project and we are still 1 year away from owning our own picks.

next years focus is, will, and should be the same as this years. not measuring ourselves by wins but by develpment.

Yeah, I meant that if if the next season is ONLY about wins, then there's not much to draw on. Of course, next season is about wins AND development.

Kenny Atkinson said this morning about "wins":

“Anytime we get [a win] it’s a good thing,” said Atkinson. “It boosts our morale; it confirms what we’re doing – I felt like we played really well in Toronto and you don’t get over the hump there’s that frustration. There’s belief in our guys, but you want confirmation. We’re really making that jump, and when you don’t get the ‘W’ it just leads to a tiny bit of doubt – I don’t care who we’re playing, 1-29 in this league, it doesn’t really matter. These are the fun games to play because you really have nothing to lose.”

This season and next are about development AND wins, they're not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure if we can say that every single young player took a big stride forward this year. Allen, RHJ, and Levert did. Dlo and Crabbe sort of stagnated in my opinion.

Next year wont be about wins.... and kennys comments are about how winning helps, not how it is a focus. of course they want to develop and have wins. wins help. but the focus is development and asset aquisition.

as far as crabbe and Dlo. Dlo missed a ton of time to injury and had an outstanding month of march once healthy (17/5/4 and shot 40% from three on 83 attempts).

I'll give you crabbe.... he hasnt really been any better then alst year.... but dinwiddie, dlo, levert, rhj, allen, harris all showed some real progress.

I can't make an argument for Dlo's progress. He's had solid months before in the past so a 17/5/4 isn't anything new. 40% from three is great but he's also shot 40% FG overall too, which is poor. He's also had months before in the past where he shot around 38% from three. If you look at his per36 numbers, he's pretty much the same player compared to his first 2 seasons, except he's shooting more, which is reflected in a higher scoring average, and his TOs are up.

Also, Dinwiddie hasn't really improved either, based on stats. His absolute numbers are up from previous years but that's just a function of playing time. But his efficiency shooting stats are way below last year's numbers. I guess if anything, his mental confidence was up during the stretch of two months where Dlo was out, and Dinwiddie was making some gamewinning shots, but his confidence seems to be back at square 1.

[Prokorov]

I can't make an argument for Dlo's progress. He's had solid months before in the past so a 17/5/4 isn't anything new. 40% from three is great but he's also shot 40% FG overall too, which is poor. He's also had months before in the past where he shot around 38% from three. If you look at his per36 numbers, he's pretty much the same player compared to his first 2 seasons, except he's shooting more, which is reflected in a higher scoring average, and his TOs are up.

FG% is one of the most irrelevant stats. TS% and 3pt% are much more valuable. what he did in the past isnt super relevant. I agree, he needs to do this consistently to assume progress, but he has been injured and hasnt had that luxury. we will need to see how he does in april and to start next season. but he has certainly looked better in march then he did earlier in the year. taking better shots, taking more threes, making more threes, more assits, etc..

Also, Dinwiddie hasn't really improved either, based on stats. His absolute numbers are up from previous years but that's just a function of playing time. But his efficiency shooting stats are way below last year's numbers. I guess if anything, his mental confidence was up during the stretch of two months where Dlo was out, and Dinwiddie was making some gamewinning shots, but his confidence seems to be back at square 1.

Other then RHJ dinwiddie is easily the teams most improved player.... throwing away his raw/absolute numbers makes no sense. those are extremely telling. also saying "thats a function of playing time" alone proves he improved... you get more playing time by being a better player. he also is among the NBA leader in assist to turnover ratio. last year he was a hot mess most of the year, this year he has been a really solid point gaurd with some flashes of brilliance. he made everyone forget about lin with his solid PG play.

his shooting % are down... thats happens to most players when you drastically incrase their volume.

[Roy Tarpley]

I can't make an argument for Dlo's progress. He's had solid months before in the past so a 17/5/4 isn't anything new. 40% from three is great but he's also shot 40% FG overall too, which is poor. He's also had months before in the past where he shot around 38% from three. If you look at his per36 numbers, he's pretty much the same player compared to his first 2 seasons, except he's shooting more, which is reflected in a higher scoring average, and his TOs are up.

FG% is one of the most irrelevant stats. TS% and 3pt% are much more valuable. what he did in the past isnt super relevant. I agree, he needs to do this consistently to assume progress, but he has been injured and hasnt had that luxury. we will need to see how he does in april and to start next season. but he has certainly looked better in march then he did earlier in the year. taking better shots, taking more threes, making more threes, more assits, etc..

Also, Dinwiddie hasn't really improved either, based on stats. His absolute numbers are up from previous years but that's just a function of playing time. But his efficiency shooting stats are way below last year's numbers. I guess if anything, his mental confidence was up during the stretch of two months where Dlo was out, and Dinwiddie was making some gamewinning shots, but his confidence seems to be back at square 1.

Other then RHJ dinwiddie is easily the teams most improved player.... throwing away his raw/absolute numbers makes no sense. those are extremely telling. also saying "thats a function of playing time" alone proves he improved... you get more playing time by being a better player. he also is among the NBA leader in assist to turnover ratio. last year he was a hot mess most of the year, this year he has been a really solid point gaurd with some flashes of brilliance. he made everyone forget about lin with his solid PG play.

his shooting % are down... thats happens to most players when you drastically incrase their volume.

- FG% is not irrelevant, it is a helpful stat in conjunction with other stats. TS% can be unhelpful because you don't know if the TS% is high because of FG%, 3PT%, or FT%. Jarrett Allen has a TS% of 63% based mostly on dunks and good FT%; Steph Curry has a TS% of 68% based on high FG, 3PT, and FT but based off of just the TS%, you can't tell whether Jarrett shoots 3PTers at all. You need all the stats.

- Dinwiddie got more playing time because he was the only PG available when DLo went down. How can you argue with a straight face that Dinwiddie is easily the team's most improved player other than RHJ? Harris can make an argument for most improved. So can Levert. Dinwiddie wasn't a hot mess last year, he's was just a little tentative on his shots.

Dinwiddie is shooting 53% TS this year compared to 58% last year. His DBPM is worse this year, his DRtg is worse this year. He made everyone forget about Lin with his play around Dec and Jan, but with the way he's playing now, I'm thinking that Lin actually has a chance of starting again! And you know me, I was adamant earlier that Lin's injury would force him to be a bench player at best, with 12mpg. That's how bad I think Dinwiddie has gotten over the last month since Dlo came back.

I understand that shooting percentages go down with volume but that doesn't mean you have to accept it. Dinwiddie has one of the lowest shooting percentages of any starting PG in the league -- people who shoot 38% FG usually don't last in the league that long.

[MrDollarBills]

i dont think that is "bad news" we are still ahead of scheudle and every. single. young. player. took big strides forward this year. this was only year 2 of a 6 year rebuild project and we are still 1 year away from owning our own picks.

next years focus is, will, and should be the same as this years. not measuring ourselves by wins but by develpment.

Yeah, I meant that if if the next season is ONLY about wins, then there's not much to draw on. Of course, next season is about wins AND development.

Kenny Atkinson said this morning about "wins":

“Anytime we get [a win] it’s a good thing,” said Atkinson. “It boosts our morale; it confirms what we’re doing – I felt like we played really well in Toronto and you don’t get over the hump there’s that frustration. There’s belief in our guys, but you want confirmation. We’re really making that jump, and when you don’t get the ‘W’ it just leads to a tiny bit of doubt – I don’t care who we’re playing, 1-29 in this league, it doesn’t really matter. These are the fun games to play because you really have nothing to lose.”

This season and next are about development AND wins, they're not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure if we can say that every single young player took a big stride forward this year. Allen, RHJ, and Levert did. Dlo and Crabbe sort of stagnated in my opinion.

Next year wont be about wins.... and kennys comments are about how winning helps, not how it is a focus. of course they want to develop and have wins. wins help. but the focus is development and asset aquisition.

as far as crabbe and Dlo. Dlo missed a ton of time to injury and had an outstanding month of march once healthy (17/5/4 and shot 40% from three on 83 attempts).

I'll give you crabbe.... he hasnt really been any better then alst year.... but dinwiddie, dlo, levert, rhj, allen, harris all showed some real progress.

I think Allen Crabbe has done well overall this year especially defensively and rebounding wise. He deserves to be mentioned as one of the improvements as well. The numbers aren't going to show it but we thought this guy was a matador on defense when he first got here, can't say that now.

Russell has looked a lot better after the rough patch he had after coming back. Russell's biggest challenge now is to stop being careless with his passes, which is clearly a maturity issue.

[MrDollarBills]

I can't make an argument for Dlo's progress. He's had solid months before in the past so a 17/5/4 isn't anything new. 40% from three is great but he's also shot 40% FG overall too, which is poor. He's also had months before in the past where he shot around 38% from three. If you look at his per36 numbers, he's pretty much the same player compared to his first 2 seasons, except he's shooting more, which is reflected in a higher scoring average, and his TOs are up.

FG% is one of the most irrelevant stats. TS% and 3pt% are much more valuable. what he did in the past isnt super relevant. I agree, he needs to do this consistently to assume progress, but he has been injured and hasnt had that luxury. we will need to see how he does in april and to start next season. but he has certainly looked better in march then he did earlier in the year. taking better shots, taking more threes, making more threes, more assits, etc..

Also, Dinwiddie hasn't really improved either, based on stats. His absolute numbers are up from previous years but that's just a function of playing time. But his efficiency shooting stats are way below last year's numbers. I guess if anything, his mental confidence was up during the stretch of two months where Dlo was out, and Dinwiddie was making some gamewinning shots, but his confidence seems to be back at square 1.

Other then RHJ dinwiddie is easily the teams most improved player.... throwing away his raw/absolute numbers makes no sense. those are extremely telling. also saying "thats a function of playing time" alone proves he improved... you get more playing time by being a better player. he also is among the NBA leader in assist to turnover ratio. last year he was a hot mess most of the year, this year he has been a really solid point gaurd with some flashes of brilliance. he made everyone forget about lin with his solid PG play.

his shooting % are down... thats happens to most players when you drastically incrase their volume.

- FG% is not irrelevant, it is a helpful stat in conjunction with other stats. TS% can be unhelpful because you don't know if the TS% is high because of FG%, 3PT%, or FT%. Jarrett Allen has a TS% of 63% based mostly on dunks and good FT%; Steph Curry has a TS% of 68% based on high FG, 3PT, and FT but based off of just the TS%, you can't tell whether Jarrett shoots 3PTers at all. You need all the stats.

- Dinwiddie got more playing time because he was the only PG available when DLo went down. How can you argue with a straight face that Dinwiddie is easily the team's most improved player other than RHJ? Harris can make an argument for most improved. So can Levert. Dinwiddie wasn't a hot mess last year, he's was just a little tentative on his shots.

Dinwiddie is shooting 53% TS this year compared to 58% last year. His DBPM is worse this year, his DRtg is worse this year. He made everyone forget about Lin with his play around Dec and Jan, but with the way he's playing now, I'm thinking that Lin actually has a chance of starting again! And you know me, I was adamant earlier that Lin's injury would force him to be a bench player at best, with 12mpg. That's how bad I think Dinwiddie has gotten over the last month since Dlo came back.

I understand that shooting percentages go down with volume but that doesn't mean you have to accept it. Dinwiddie has one of the lowest shooting percentages of any starting PG in the league -- people who shoot 38% FG usually don't last in the league that long.

Dinwiddie needs to clean up his efficiency but you cannot deny he was better overall this year than last year. He played some big time minutes for this team, hit some big shots as well.

Also, I think you need to remember that Lin is coming back from a serious injury at an age where his body may not bounce back in the way that you think it may, it may not be that simple. I have no expectations from him next year other than the hopes that he'll have a year of decent health. Saying that he can beat out Spencer isn't a surefire thing especially if he lost explosiveness off of the dribble.

Spencer also played pretty decently yesterday. He has his ups and downs just like any other young player on the team, I can't predict him playing poorly next year based off of a rough stretch.

It's like every time someone goes through a down moment people just give up on them. No one could have predicted that RHJ would become the guy who is the best overall player on the floor every night for this team last year. He's 33-34% from 3PT land shot away from becoming a 20ppg a night player. He has had plenty of down moments but they weren't an indicator of what's to come. I'd give Dinwiddie, Russell, etc some time before giving up.

[bws94]

FG% is one of the most irrelevant stats. TS% and 3pt% are much more valuable. what he did in the past isnt super relevant. I agree, he needs to do this consistently to assume progress, but he has been injured and hasnt had that luxury. we will need to see how he does in april and to start next season. but he has certainly looked better in march then he did earlier in the year. taking better shots, taking more threes, making more threes, more assits, etc..



Other then RHJ dinwiddie is easily the teams most improved player.... throwing away his raw/absolute numbers makes no sense. those are extremely telling. also saying "thats a function of playing time" alone proves he improved... you get more playing time by being a better player. he also is among the NBA leader in assist to turnover ratio. last year he was a hot mess most of the year, this year he has been a really solid point gaurd with some flashes of brilliance. he made everyone forget about lin with his solid PG play.

his shooting % are down... thats happens to most players when you drastically incrase their volume.

- FG% is not irrelevant, it is a helpful stat in conjunction with other stats. TS% can be unhelpful because you don't know if the TS% is high because of FG%, 3PT%, or FT%. Jarrett Allen has a TS% of 63% based mostly on dunks and good FT%; Steph Curry has a TS% of 68% based on high FG, 3PT, and FT but based off of just the TS%, you can't tell whether Jarrett shoots 3PTers at all. You need all the stats.

- Dinwiddie got more playing time because he was the only PG available when DLo went down. How can you argue with a straight face that Dinwiddie is easily the team's most improved player other than RHJ? Harris can make an argument for most improved. So can Levert. Dinwiddie wasn't a hot mess last year, he's was just a little tentative on his shots.

Dinwiddie is shooting 53% TS this year compared to 58% last year. His DBPM is worse this year, his DRtg is worse this year. He made everyone forget about Lin with his play around Dec and Jan, but with the way he's playing now, I'm thinking that Lin actually has a chance of starting again! And you know me, I was adamant earlier that Lin's injury would force him to be a bench player at best, with 12mpg. That's how bad I think Dinwiddie has gotten over the last month since Dlo came back.

I understand that shooting percentages go down with volume but that doesn't mean you have to accept it. Dinwiddie has one of the lowest shooting percentages of any starting PG in the league -- people who shoot 38% FG usually don't last in the league that long.

Dinwiddie needs to clean up his efficiency but you cannot deny he was better overall this year than last year. He played some big time minutes for this team, hit some big shots as well.

Also, I think you need to remember that Lin is coming back from a serious injury at an age where his body may not bounce back in the way that you think it may, it may not be that simple. I have no expectations from him next year other than the hopes that he'll have a year of decent health. Saying that he can beat out Spencer isn't a surefire thing especially if he lost explosiveness off of the dribble.

Spencer also played pretty decently yesterday. He has his ups and downs just like any other young player on the team, I can't predict him playing poorly next year based off of a rough stretch.

It's like every time someone goes through a down moment people just give up on them. No one could have predicted that RHJ would become the guy who is the best overall player on the floor every night for this team last year. He's 33-34% from 3PT land shot away from becoming a 20ppg a night player. He has had plenty of down moments but they weren't an indicator of what's to come. I'd give Dinwiddie, Russell, etc some time before giving up.

Roy's been saying Lin won't come back strong, that he'll be limited and get 12 minutes a game from the bench. I have no idea what will happen with Lin, just welcome his leadership.

Spencer was more confident earlier in the year. Something has happened. He may be tired. But I think it is a combo of playing with DLo and deferring some, being scouted, hitting a soft wall. He has moments of aggressive play and confident play, but he has a lot of dribbling around and waiting moments as well. Now, that's part of his game. But he seems to do it more.

Crabbe is cool. I like his defensive effort, hustle and I think he bothers some guys on D. Depends on the matchup. He seems a little streaky, but he has a knack of hitting late buckets, late 3's. And he's driving to the hole more.

[Roy Tarpley]

FG% is one of the most irrelevant stats. TS% and 3pt% are much more valuable. what he did in the past isnt super relevant. I agree, he needs to do this consistently to assume progress, but he has been injured and hasnt had that luxury. we will need to see how he does in april and to start next season. but he has certainly looked better in march then he did earlier in the year. taking better shots, taking more threes, making more threes, more assits, etc..



Other then RHJ dinwiddie is easily the teams most improved player.... throwing away his raw/absolute numbers makes no sense. those are extremely telling. also saying "thats a function of playing time" alone proves he improved... you get more playing time by being a better player. he also is among the NBA leader in assist to turnover ratio. last year he was a hot mess most of the year, this year he has been a really solid point gaurd with some flashes of brilliance. he made everyone forget about lin with his solid PG play.

his shooting % are down... thats happens to most players when you drastically incrase their volume.

- FG% is not irrelevant, it is a helpful stat in conjunction with other stats. TS% can be unhelpful because you don't know if the TS% is high because of FG%, 3PT%, or FT%. Jarrett Allen has a TS% of 63% based mostly on dunks and good FT%; Steph Curry has a TS% of 68% based on high FG, 3PT, and FT but based off of just the TS%, you can't tell whether Jarrett shoots 3PTers at all. You need all the stats.

- Dinwiddie got more playing time because he was the only PG available when DLo went down. How can you argue with a straight face that Dinwiddie is easily the team's most improved player other than RHJ? Harris can make an argument for most improved. So can Levert. Dinwiddie wasn't a hot mess last year, he's was just a little tentative on his shots.

Dinwiddie is shooting 53% TS this year compared to 58% last year. His DBPM is worse this year, his DRtg is worse this year. He made everyone forget about Lin with his play around Dec and Jan, but with the way he's playing now, I'm thinking that Lin actually has a chance of starting again! And you know me, I was adamant earlier that Lin's injury would force him to be a bench player at best, with 12mpg. That's how bad I think Dinwiddie has gotten over the last month since Dlo came back.

I understand that shooting percentages go down with volume but that doesn't mean you have to accept it. Dinwiddie has one of the lowest shooting percentages of any starting PG in the league -- people who shoot 38% FG usually don't last in the league that long.

Dinwiddie needs to clean up his efficiency but you cannot deny he was better overall this year than last year. He played some big time minutes for this team, hit some big shots as well.

Also, I think you need to remember that Lin is coming back from a serious injury at an age where his body may not bounce back in the way that you think it may, it may not be that simple. I have no expectations from him next year other than the hopes that he'll have a year of decent health. Saying that he can beat out Spencer isn't a surefire thing especially if he lost explosiveness off of the dribble.

Spencer also played pretty decently yesterday. He has his ups and downs just like any other young player on the team, I can't predict him playing poorly next year based off of a rough stretch.

It's like every time someone goes through a down moment people just give up on them. No one could have predicted that RHJ would become the guy who is the best overall player on the floor every night for this team last year. He's 33-34% from 3PT land shot away from becoming a 20ppg a night player. He has had plenty of down moments but they weren't an indicator of what's to come. I'd give Dinwiddie, Russell, etc some time before giving up.

Yeah, the genesis of this discussion for me was when Prok said "every. single. young. player. took big strides forward this year."

Maybe I misinterpreted what he said but I assumed the added emphasis of the periods meant that he was saying that each young player took big strides as a whole . . . which I disagree with.

As a whole, I think Dinwiddie treaded water. He played some big games and had some big moments but his shooting efficiency is WAY down and his defensive numbers are down as well. The most I could say for Dinwiddie was that he demonstrated greater confidence and command during a 2 month stretch but that overall, his percentages and defense are a step back from last year.

Regarding Lin, if you look at the Lin thread, you'll notice that I am about as sober as any Lin fan can be regarding his injury. People are saying that you need to give Lin a chance, but I have to keep on being the debbie downer and say that the track record of recovery from patellar tendon ruptures is not good. I never said that Lin beating out Spencer was a sure fire thing. I said, "[with how poorly Dinwiddie is playing,] I'm thinking that Lin actually has a chance of starting again!" The exclamation point connotes a bit of tongue in cheek, and even then, I'm qualifying my statement by saying that it's just a "chance."

I'm not giving up on Dinwiddie or Dlo. I still want to see how they do the rest of the year and all of next year.

My main point is that Dinwiddie and Dlo did not. take. big. strides. this. year. On the other hand, RHJ, Levert, and Harris did, and I can point to specific numbers to demonstrate how they did. In fact, I'd argue that Joe Harris made the overall greatest improvement -- incredible offensive improvement and basically stayed the same defensively. RHJ's defensive numbers dipped a bit this year and regarding his offense, his per36 are generally the same compared to last year, except his FG% is higher, his FT% is higher, and his points total is higher. RHJ is getting to the line a little more and his mid-range has improved a lot.

[MrDollarBills]

- FG% is not irrelevant, it is a helpful stat in conjunction with other stats. TS% can be unhelpful because you don't know if the TS% is high because of FG%, 3PT%, or FT%. Jarrett Allen has a TS% of 63% based mostly on dunks and good FT%; Steph Curry has a TS% of 68% based on high FG, 3PT, and FT but based off of just the TS%, you can't tell whether Jarrett shoots 3PTers at all. You need all the stats.

- Dinwiddie got more playing time because he was the only PG available when DLo went down. How can you argue with a straight face that Dinwiddie is easily the team's most improved player other than RHJ? Harris can make an argument for most improved. So can Levert. Dinwiddie wasn't a hot mess last year, he's was just a little tentative on his shots.

Dinwiddie is shooting 53% TS this year compared to 58% last year. His DBPM is worse this year, his DRtg is worse this year. He made everyone forget about Lin with his play around Dec and Jan, but with the way he's playing now, I'm thinking that Lin actually has a chance of starting again! And you know me, I was adamant earlier that Lin's injury would force him to be a bench player at best, with 12mpg. That's how bad I think Dinwiddie has gotten over the last month since Dlo came back.

I understand that shooting percentages go down with volume but that doesn't mean you have to accept it. Dinwiddie has one of the lowest shooting percentages of any starting PG in the league -- people who shoot 38% FG usually don't last in the league that long.

Dinwiddie needs to clean up his efficiency but you cannot deny he was better overall this year than last year. He played some big time minutes for this team, hit some big shots as well.

Also, I think you need to remember that Lin is coming back from a serious injury at an age where his body may not bounce back in the way that you think it may, it may not be that simple. I have no expectations from him next year other than the hopes that he'll have a year of decent health. Saying that he can beat out Spencer isn't a surefire thing especially if he lost explosiveness off of the dribble.

Spencer also played pretty decently yesterday. He has his ups and downs just like any other young player on the team, I can't predict him playing poorly next year based off of a rough stretch.

It's like every time someone goes through a down moment people just give up on them. No one could have predicted that RHJ would become the guy who is the best overall player on the floor every night for this team last year. He's 33-34% from 3PT land shot away from becoming a 20ppg a night player. He has had plenty of down moments but they weren't an indicator of what's to come. I'd give Dinwiddie, Russell, etc some time before giving up.

Roy's been saying Lin won't come back strong, that he'll be limited and get 12 minutes a game from the bench. I have no idea what will happen with Lin, just welcome his leadership.

Spencer was more confident earlier in the year. Something has happened. He may be tired. But I think it is a combo of playing with DLo and deferring some, being scouted, hitting a soft wall. He has moments of aggressive play and confident play, but he has a lot of dribbling around and waiting moments as well. Now, that's part of his game. But he seems to do it more.

Crabbe is cool. I like his defensive effort, hustle and I think he bothers some guys on D. Depends on the matchup. He seems a little streaky, but he has a knack of hitting late buckets, late 3's. And he's driving to the hole more.

I just hope Lin can come back, hit threes, and play tough D. He doesn't have to play in the style that he did before. it's not worth it.

I think you are right about Spencer. Something happened. I also don't think that he and Russell have good on court chemistry whereas LeVert and Russell play off of each other well. i think he's also burned out. he had to do a lot of heavy lifting this season and also being taken out of the starting line up was probably painful but to his credit he has been 100% professional about it.

[MrDollarBills]

- FG% is not irrelevant, it is a helpful stat in conjunction with other stats. TS% can be unhelpful because you don't know if the TS% is high because of FG%, 3PT%, or FT%. Jarrett Allen has a TS% of 63% based mostly on dunks and good FT%; Steph Curry has a TS% of 68% based on high FG, 3PT, and FT but based off of just the TS%, you can't tell whether Jarrett shoots 3PTers at all. You need all the stats.

- Dinwiddie got more playing time because he was the only PG available when DLo went down. How can you argue with a straight face that Dinwiddie is easily the team's most improved player other than RHJ? Harris can make an argument for most improved. So can Levert. Dinwiddie wasn't a hot mess last year, he's was just a little tentative on his shots.

Dinwiddie is shooting 53% TS this year compared to 58% last year. His DBPM is worse this year, his DRtg is worse this year. He made everyone forget about Lin with his play around Dec and Jan, but with the way he's playing now, I'm thinking that Lin actually has a chance of starting again! And you know me, I was adamant earlier that Lin's injury would force him to be a bench player at best, with 12mpg. That's how bad I think Dinwiddie has gotten over the last month since Dlo came back.

I understand that shooting percentages go down with volume but that doesn't mean you have to accept it. Dinwiddie has one of the lowest shooting percentages of any starting PG in the league -- people who shoot 38% FG usually don't last in the league that long.

Dinwiddie needs to clean up his efficiency but you cannot deny he was better overall this year than last year. He played some big time minutes for this team, hit some big shots as well.

Also, I think you need to remember that Lin is coming back from a serious injury at an age where his body may not bounce back in the way that you think it may, it may not be that simple. I have no expectations from him next year other than the hopes that he'll have a year of decent health. Saying that he can beat out Spencer isn't a surefire thing especially if he lost explosiveness off of the dribble.

Spencer also played pretty decently yesterday. He has his ups and downs just like any other young player on the team, I can't predict him playing poorly next year based off of a rough stretch.

It's like every time someone goes through a down moment people just give up on them. No one could have predicted that RHJ would become the guy who is the best overall player on the floor every night for this team last year. He's 33-34% from 3PT land shot away from becoming a 20ppg a night player. He has had plenty of down moments but they weren't an indicator of what's to come. I'd give Dinwiddie, Russell, etc some time before giving up.

Yeah, the genesis of this discussion for me was when Prok said "every. single. young. player. took big strides forward this year."

Maybe I misinterpreted what he said but I assumed the added emphasis of the periods meant that he was saying that each young player took big strides as a whole . . . which I disagree with.

As a whole, I think Dinwiddie treaded water. He played some big games and had some big moments but his shooting efficiency is WAY down and his defensive numbers are down as well. The most I could say for Dinwiddie was that he demonstrated greater confidence and command during a 2 month stretch but that overall, his percentages and defense are a step back from last year.

Regarding Lin, if you look at the Lin thread, you'll notice that I am about as sober as any Lin fan can be regarding his injury. People are saying that you need to give Lin a chance, but I have to keep on being the debbie downer and say that the track record of recovery from patellar tendon ruptures is not good. I never said that Lin beating out Spencer was a sure fire thing. I said, "[with how poorly Dinwiddie is playing,] I'm thinking that Lin actually has a chance of starting again!" The exclamation point connotes a bit of tongue in cheek, and even then, I'm qualifying my statement by saying that it's just a "chance."

I'm not giving up on Dinwiddie or Dlo. I still want to see how they do the rest of the year and all of next year.

My main point is that Dinwiddie and Dlo did not. take. big. strides. this. year. On the other hand, RHJ, Levert, and Harris did, and I can point to specific numbers to demonstrate how they did. In fact, I'd argue that Joe Harris made the overall greatest improvement -- incredible offensive improvement and basically stayed the same defensively. RHJ's defensive numbers dipped a bit this year and regarding his offense, his per36 are generally the same compared to last year, except his FG% is higher, his FT% is higher, and his points total is higher. RHJ is getting to the line a little more and his mid-range has improved a lot.

RHJ is being asked to defend pretty much every position at a moment's notice, so I don't really put too much stock into his defensive metrics dipping. we watch the games, we know that when he's on the floor he's making plays on defense.

I think Russell overall since his return has improved. he's shooting the ball better and has been more than a willing passer. he was derailed by injury so I think we need to see how he's doing by this time next year to make a proper assessment. However, he has to stop being careless with the basketball. the turnovers that he makes are all avoidable. Throw a simple, crisp pass. Not everything has to be a highlight. He'll learn.

[SpeedyG]

i dont think that is "bad news" we are still ahead of scheudle and every. single. young. player. took big strides forward this year. this was only year 2 of a 6 year rebuild project and we are still 1 year away from owning our own picks.

next years focus is, will, and should be the same as this years. not measuring ourselves by wins but by develpment.

Yeah, I meant that if if the next season is ONLY about wins, then there's not much to draw on. Of course, next season is about wins AND development.

Kenny Atkinson said this morning about "wins":

“Anytime we get [a win] it’s a good thing,” said Atkinson. “It boosts our morale; it confirms what we’re doing – I felt like we played really well in Toronto and you don’t get over the hump there’s that frustration. There’s belief in our guys, but you want confirmation. We’re really making that jump, and when you don’t get the ‘W’ it just leads to a tiny bit of doubt – I don’t care who we’re playing, 1-29 in this league, it doesn’t really matter. These are the fun games to play because you really have nothing to lose.”

This season and next are about development AND wins, they're not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure if we can say that every single young player took a big stride forward this year. Allen, RHJ, and Levert did. Dlo and Crabbe sort of stagnated in my opinion.

This team isn't going to win unless the building blocks continue to improve. That's the whole point of the development. The concept is that if the individual improve, the team improves, and thus it results in wins. But that's also why winning is important, because it validates all the hard work you've put in.

Not sure how you can say Crabbe has stagnated. He's gone from a one dimensional catch and shoot player to a pesky defender, solid rebounder, and even put the ball on the floor now.Im not sure you can ask for much more than that for his first season as far as progress goes.

[Roy Tarpley]

i dont think that is "bad news" we are still ahead of scheudle and every. single. young. player. took big strides forward this year. this was only year 2 of a 6 year rebuild project and we are still 1 year away from owning our own picks.

next years focus is, will, and should be the same as this years. not measuring ourselves by wins but by develpment.

Yeah, I meant that if if the next season is ONLY about wins, then there's not much to draw on. Of course, next season is about wins AND development.

Kenny Atkinson said this morning about "wins":

“Anytime we get [a win] it’s a good thing,” said Atkinson. “It boosts our morale; it confirms what we’re doing – I felt like we played really well in Toronto and you don’t get over the hump there’s that frustration. There’s belief in our guys, but you want confirmation. We’re really making that jump, and when you don’t get the ‘W’ it just leads to a tiny bit of doubt – I don’t care who we’re playing, 1-29 in this league, it doesn’t really matter. These are the fun games to play because you really have nothing to lose.”

This season and next are about development AND wins, they're not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure if we can say that every single young player took a big stride forward this year. Allen, RHJ, and Levert did. Dlo and Crabbe sort of stagnated in my opinion.

This team isn't going to win unless the building blocks continue to improve. That's the whole point of the development. The concept is that if the individual improve, the team improves, and thus it results in wins. But that's also why winning is important, because it validates all the hard work you've put in.

Not sure how you can say Crabbe has stagnated. He's gone from a one dimensional catch and shoot player to a pesky defender, solid rebounder, and even put the ball on the floor now.Im not sure you can ask for much more than that for his first season as far as progress goes.

I meant Dinwiddie, not Crabbe. But even with Crabbe. He was a 46% FG, 40+% 3pt shooter, and even a decent defender in his early years in Portland. Now, he's shooting 39%FG and 37% 3PT. So Crabbe has improved in some areas, regressed in others. In the aggregate, not a huge improvement.

[Prokorov]

i dont think that is "bad news" we are still ahead of scheudle and every. single. young. player. took big strides forward this year. this was only year 2 of a 6 year rebuild project and we are still 1 year away from owning our own picks.

next years focus is, will, and should be the same as this years. not measuring ourselves by wins but by develpment.

Yeah, I meant that if if the next season is ONLY about wins, then there's not much to draw on. Of course, next season is about wins AND development.

Kenny Atkinson said this morning about "wins":

“Anytime we get [a win] it’s a good thing,” said Atkinson. “It boosts our morale; it confirms what we’re doing – I felt like we played really well in Toronto and you don’t get over the hump there’s that frustration. There’s belief in our guys, but you want confirmation. We’re really making that jump, and when you don’t get the ‘W’ it just leads to a tiny bit of doubt – I don’t care who we’re playing, 1-29 in this league, it doesn’t really matter. These are the fun games to play because you really have nothing to lose.”

This season and next are about development AND wins, they're not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure if we can say that every single young player took a big stride forward this year. Allen, RHJ, and Levert did. Dlo and Crabbe sort of stagnated in my opinion.

This team isn't going to win unless the building blocks continue to improve. That's the whole point of the development. The concept is that if the individual improve, the team improves, and thus it results in wins. But that's also why winning is important, because it validates all the hard work you've put in.

Not sure how you can say Crabbe has stagnated. He's gone from a one dimensional catch and shoot player to a pesky defender, solid rebounder, and even put the ball on the floor now.Im not sure you can ask for much more than that for his first season as far as progress goes.

offensively he is still the same guy he was last year. he has done well to hit some pump fake - dribble - mid range shots but he still hasnt expanded his offense much at all.

He took half as many shots at the rim (0-3) this year as opposed to last year (15% of his offense last year, 8% this year). his shooting percentage did go upfrom 0-3 feet (from 66% to 71%) but it went down every other distance... 3-10, 10-16, 16-22, and three point. He got to the free throw line the same amount as last year (1.6 times a game) despite more usage and FGA. his shooting percentages across the board were down: FG, 3PT, TS, eFG

the defense is nice, but we are paying him 19 million. we need to see the guy who had a great 1 week stretch more often. not just a hot week. hopefully a full offseason with us helps

[SpeedyG]

What a guy makes is irrelevant to his improvement.

He's rounded out his game far more than any of us could have expected as far as rebounding and defense. He's been more aggressive, even though that still need work especially towards the basket.

I'm not sure what kind of improvement you all were expecting, but he's shown me enough to believe he's a solid starter with the possibility of further development as he works in the off-season.

Given he was hurt most of the off season, what he's done improving his overall game has been more than acceptable as long you keep your expectations reasonable

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah, I meant that if if the next season is ONLY about wins, then there's not much to draw on. Of course, next season is about wins AND development.

Kenny Atkinson said this morning about "wins":

“Anytime we get [a win] it’s a good thing,” said Atkinson. “It boosts our morale; it confirms what we’re doing – I felt like we played really well in Toronto and you don’t get over the hump there’s that frustration. There’s belief in our guys, but you want confirmation. We’re really making that jump, and when you don’t get the ‘W’ it just leads to a tiny bit of doubt – I don’t care who we’re playing, 1-29 in this league, it doesn’t really matter. These are the fun games to play because you really have nothing to lose.”

This season and next are about development AND wins, they're not mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure if we can say that every single young player took a big stride forward this year. Allen, RHJ, and Levert did. Dlo and Crabbe sort of stagnated in my opinion.

This team isn't going to win unless the building blocks continue to improve. That's the whole point of the development. The concept is that if the individual improve, the team improves, and thus it results in wins. But that's also why winning is important, because it validates all the hard work you've put in.

Not sure how you can say Crabbe has stagnated. He's gone from a one dimensional catch and shoot player to a pesky defender, solid rebounder, and even put the ball on the floor now.Im not sure you can ask for much more than that for his first season as far as progress goes.

I meant Dinwiddie, not Crabbe. But even with Crabbe. He was a 46% FG, 40+% 3pt shooter, and even a decent defender in his early years in Portland. Now, he's shooting 39%FG and 37% 3PT. So Crabbe has improved in some areas, regressed in others. In the aggregate, not a huge improvement.

It was a given that Crabbe's %'s would go down now that he's one of the main options on offense. His defense and rebounding have been a pleasant surprise, remember back when we got him people were fearful of having a Russell/Crabbe backcourt. I think that he has developed nicely along with the rest of the team.