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Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9

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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2301 » by AtheJ415 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:36 am

bwgood77 wrote:
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LMAO, good luck with that Celtics!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


If any team can move up with assets though, I think it's them. Maybe even to Atlanta. They have 4 firsts next year and can offer up Jaylen, Rozier, etc if they want it enough.

The only problem with them, which is a bigger problem for us, is, they don't have a good pick to give him this year unless someone puts a high value on 16, but then again, it would require a future pick or two from us I think....but we don't have a really good enticing player to throw in there...maybe if we considered Jackson but probably not.


Boston's future picks aren't as good as they seem. Memphis's could be but not if they surrender it next year by finishing outside the top 9 in the reverse standings.

I think the "good luck with that" part is more about getting to keep pick 4 while also not having to take Parsons. There is like 2 teams who could absorb Parsons and I don't understand why they would do that while not getting the best asset involved in the deal, which is pick 4.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2302 » by matt131 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:39 am

Kerrsed wrote:
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LMAO, good luck with that Celtics!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


If Danny Ainge manages to land Luka...

a) ****!!!!!
b) I don't think I could ever listen to the Ringer podcast again. BS is gonna be such a Mass-hole about it
c) I think it would prove to everyone that Luka is the prize of this draft.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2303 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:39 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
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LMAO, good luck with that Celtics!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


If any team can move up with assets though, I think it's them. Maybe even to Atlanta. They have 4 firsts next year and can offer up Jaylen, Rozier, etc if they want it enough.

The only problem with them, which is a bigger problem for us, is, they don't have a good pick to give him this year unless someone puts a high value on 16, but then again, it would require a future pick or two from us I think....but we don't have a really good enticing player to throw in there...maybe if we considered Jackson but probably not.


Boston's future picks aren't as good as they seem. Memphis's could be but not if they surrender it next year by finishing outside the top 9 in the reverse standings.

I think the "good luck with that" part is more about getting to keep pick 4 while also not having to take Parsons. There is like 2 teams who could absorb Parsons and I don't understand why they would do that while not getting the best asset involved in the deal, which is pick 4.


The Kings pick looks pretty good to me...it's top 1 protected. The others might end up protected but would roll over. That Kings pick is a premier asset. By far better.

But we can't absorb Parsons either. We can't absorb much right now...we'd have to send out a couple of players.

Even if they dump Parsons they don't create more cap space for themselves being over the cap by 17 million or so....they would get under by 7 million and lose the MLE, which is bigger than the cap space it creates.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2304 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:40 am

Phnxsports wrote:
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Phnxsports wrote:

Either Doncic isn't available at #4 because he went 3 and they are targeting others/Bigs, or Doncic is going #4. Either way Doncic supporters for #1 have to feel pretty embarrassed.

In what way?



Im not trying to be an ass. Seriously. But a lot of the Doncic for #1 peeps have to have some kind of revelation that he is falling to maybe 3 or 4. Especially if Sac passes on him for Bagley. It has to say something that he is falling passed someone like Divac.

I don't think so. Teams do silly things all the time. The same front office took Papagiannis when no one thought he was 1st round talent. If Sacramento takes Bagley, that would be such a King's thing to do. It also doesn't surprise me that teams are trying to get at ATL's #3 pick to take Doncic if King's pass on him.

I still think have Doncic #1 on my prospect rankings and I wouldn't be embarrassed if he fell past the Kings, because it's the Kings.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2305 » by TheLogician » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:47 am

I'd prefer Trae or MPJ at this point. It looks cost prohibitive to move into the top four. Givony has Trae at 12 and MPJ at 7 in his latest mock for what that's worth.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2306 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:49 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Phnxsports wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:In what way?



Im not trying to be an ass. Seriously. But a lot of the Doncic for #1 peeps have to have some kind of revelation that he is falling to maybe 3 or 4. Especially if Sac passes on him for Bagley. It has to say something that he is falling passed someone like Divac.

I don't think so. Teams do silly things all the time. The same front office took Papagiannis when no one thought he was 1st round talent. If Sacramento takes Bagley, that would be such a King's thing to do. It also doesn't surprise me that teams are trying to get at ATL's #3 pick to take Doncic if King's pass on him.

I still think have Doncic #1 on my prospect rankings and I wouldn't be embarrassed if he fell past the Kings, because it's the Kings.


They have explained well on all the podcasts why the Kings might go with Bagley over Doncic. Doncic wouldn't give his physicals to them. NO ONE worked out for the Kings except Bagley was willing and wants to go there. They have a hard time finding people who want to go there. Bagley wants to...he moreso probably just wants to be the highest pick possible but he has no reservations about where that is. Doncic does. That's a lot to consider if you have them close.

It's like Memphis. No one worked out for them out of top prospects other than Wendell Carter...no one would come. I won't be shocked if they take him.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2307 » by matt131 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:49 am

TheLogician wrote:I'd prefer Trae or MPJ at this point. It looks cost prohibitive to move into the top four. Givony has Trae at 12 and MPJ at 7 in his latest mock for what that's worth.


If MPJ does indeed go at 7, and the knicks don't trade with Memphis, hopefully that rumored trade earlier on is true. For some reason, even though all I wanted was the first pick in the lottery, I feel like I won't be happy unless we walk away with two really good players from this draft.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2308 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:50 am

TheLogician wrote:I'd prefer Trae or MPJ at this point. It looks cost prohibitive to move into the top four. Givony has Trae at 12 and MPJ at 7 in his latest mock for what that's worth.

I'd take either in that 8-10 range which is probably a more realistic trade up scenario.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2309 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:53 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Phnxsports wrote:

Im not trying to be an ass. Seriously. But a lot of the Doncic for #1 peeps have to have some kind of revelation that he is falling to maybe 3 or 4. Especially if Sac passes on him for Bagley. It has to say something that he is falling passed someone like Divac.

I don't think so. Teams do silly things all the time. The same front office took Papagiannis when no one thought he was 1st round talent. If Sacramento takes Bagley, that would be such a King's thing to do. It also doesn't surprise me that teams are trying to get at ATL's #3 pick to take Doncic if King's pass on him.

I still think have Doncic #1 on my prospect rankings and I wouldn't be embarrassed if he fell past the Kings, because it's the Kings.


They have explained well on all the podcasts why the Kings might go with Bagley over Doncic. Doncic wouldn't give his physicals to them. NO ONE worked out for the Kings except Bagley was willing and wants to go there. They have a hard time finding people who want to go there. Bagley wants to...he moreso probably just wants to be the highest pick possible but he has no reservations about where that is. Doncic does. That's a lot to consider if you have them close.

It's like Memphis. No one worked out for them out of top prospects other than Wendell Carter...no one would come. I won't be shocked if they take him.

I didn't know about Doncic not giving physicals to them. I just thought the Kings valued a guy who *wanted* to be there more than Doncic. It's reasonable to take Bagley over him in that case.

I'm iffy on Carter going that high. Just don't know how it would work with Gasol still around.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2310 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:54 am

matt131 wrote:
TheLogician wrote:I'd prefer Trae or MPJ at this point. It looks cost prohibitive to move into the top four. Givony has Trae at 12 and MPJ at 7 in his latest mock for what that's worth.


If MPJ does indeed go at 7, and the knicks don't trade with Memphis, hopefully that rumored trade earlier on is true. For some reason, even though all I wanted was the first pick in the lottery, I feel like I won't be happy unless we walk away with two really good players from this draft.


Yeah, if it is just Holiday it will be fine with me but won't make me excited. I never liked Sexton much but if he falls it would be hard to pass. And I think Miles Bridges might somehow fall to 16 and I think he can play 4, particularly next to Ayton, and he is a player.

Maybe neither falls, but if Knox and Robert Williams go earlier, as well as all the other consensus guys...Shai...one of those gets to at least 15...Denver may again have a great guy fall into their lap. Sucks they are right ahead of us, considering their GM is probably as good as anyone at the draft.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2311 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:58 am

Hard to see Miles dropping that far but if he's there, you take him and run.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2312 » by AtheJ415 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:59 am

bwgood77 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
If any team can move up with assets though, I think it's them. Maybe even to Atlanta. They have 4 firsts next year and can offer up Jaylen, Rozier, etc if they want it enough.

The only problem with them, which is a bigger problem for us, is, they don't have a good pick to give him this year unless someone puts a high value on 16, but then again, it would require a future pick or two from us I think....but we don't have a really good enticing player to throw in there...maybe if we considered Jackson but probably not.


Boston's future picks aren't as good as they seem. Memphis's could be but not if they surrender it next year by finishing outside the top 9 in the reverse standings.

I think the "good luck with that" part is more about getting to keep pick 4 while also not having to take Parsons. There is like 2 teams who could absorb Parsons and I don't understand why they would do that while not getting the best asset involved in the deal, which is pick 4.


The Kings pick looks pretty good to me...it's top 1 protected. The others might end up protected but would roll over. That Kings pick is a premier asset. By far better.

But we can't absorb Parsons either. We can't absorb much right now...we'd have to send out a couple of players.

Even if they dump Parsons they don't create more cap space for themselves being over the cap by 17 million or so....they would get under by 7 million and lose the MLE, which is bigger than the cap space it creates.


The Kings pick is valuable, but the rest aren't. The Clippers pick is not going to be good absent them blowing it up. Guys like Harris are still improving.

The Memphis pick only becomes valuable if it does in fact roll over. It is not reverse protected though. That is why Memphis wants to win now--they want the pick gone this next draft, which is weak, and they still have Conley and Gasol so should be able to accomplish that barring health. All it takes is for them to finish out of the bottom 9 and that pick becomes not great value. The 10th pick in this next draft should have nowhere near the value as in this draft. If they don't win enough though, then the weaker protections kick in and that pick actually does become valuable, because they are built around 2 old players who are declining and the draft gets better in 2020 and 2021.

Point being, we ought to be able to beat Boston's offer (at least from a picks perspective. Maybe not from player if they are throwing in Tatum or Irving or something), because we can include our own picks, which ought to be more valuable than the Clipper and Memphis picks, and we can include unprotected 1sts in better drafts (Miami, and potentially Milwaukee). Boston's own picks are valueless.

Really we're just talking about the Kings pick here, so it would depend on if Memphis preferred a top 10 pick in next draft (that is the reasonable expectation with the new lottery imo, and the Kings were 7th this year in reverse and are young) versus our own future picks. I think a team like Memphis would prefer the 16th pick in this draft, and 1-2 of our own future picks. And for me I would do that for Doncic or Young.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2313 » by Kerrsed » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:59 am

bwgood77 wrote:
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LMAO, good luck with that Celtics!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


If any team can move up with assets though, I think it's them. Maybe even to Atlanta. They have 4 firsts next year and can offer up Jaylen, Rozier, etc if they want it enough.

The only problem with them, which is a bigger problem for us, is, they don't have a good pick to give him this year unless someone puts a high value on 16, but then again, it would require a future pick or two from us I think....but we don't have a really good enticing player to throw in there...maybe if we considered Jackson but probably not.


Yeah, but the point is they dont want to take back Parsons horrible deal. I mean really, who does???? But for them to take the #4 pick and NOT end up with Parsons, well, thats going to take a ton of assets to accomplish. I just dont see why they would do all this for Doncic? I mean isnt Irving/Rozier/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford enough for them??? Like where is Doncic even going to play, PF?? I would think if anything they would try to use that #4 to grab a guy like Bamba or JJJ.

But say they give up some of those assets to Memphis for the pick, who/what would they have to give up to a 3rd team to take on Parsons?
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2314 » by AtheJ415 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:05 am

Kerrsed wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
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LMAO, good luck with that Celtics!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


If any team can move up with assets though, I think it's them. Maybe even to Atlanta. They have 4 firsts next year and can offer up Jaylen, Rozier, etc if they want it enough.

The only problem with them, which is a bigger problem for us, is, they don't have a good pick to give him this year unless someone puts a high value on 16, but then again, it would require a future pick or two from us I think....but we don't have a really good enticing player to throw in there...maybe if we considered Jackson but probably not.


Yeah, but the point is they dont want to take back Parsons horrible deal. I mean really, who does???? But for them to take the #4 pick and NOT end up with Parsons, well, thats going to take a ton of assets to accomplish. I just dont see why they would do all this for Doncic? I mean isnt Irving/Rozier/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford enough for them??? Like where is Doncic even going to play, PF?? I would think if anything they would try to use that #4 to grab a guy like Bamba or JJJ.

But say they give up some of those assets to Memphis for the pick, who/what would they have to give up to a 3rd team to take on Parsons?


Exactly. I think it would have to take Kyrie to the Knicks or something. The whole carrot around taking on Parsons is that you get that particular pick. To not get the pick you'd need a proven star like Irving or Hayward or a promising youngster plus something extra, so imo something like Brown or Tatum plus a valuable future 1st. And I imagine they will be trading the valuable future 1sts to Memphis anyways in this scenario. So maybe Brown and Tatum, or Brown and Rozier?
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2315 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:08 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
Boston's future picks aren't as good as they seem. Memphis's could be but not if they surrender it next year by finishing outside the top 9 in the reverse standings.

I think the "good luck with that" part is more about getting to keep pick 4 while also not having to take Parsons. There is like 2 teams who could absorb Parsons and I don't understand why they would do that while not getting the best asset involved in the deal, which is pick 4.


The Kings pick looks pretty good to me...it's top 1 protected. The others might end up protected but would roll over. That Kings pick is a premier asset. By far better.

But we can't absorb Parsons either. We can't absorb much right now...we'd have to send out a couple of players.

Even if they dump Parsons they don't create more cap space for themselves being over the cap by 17 million or so....they would get under by 7 million and lose the MLE, which is bigger than the cap space it creates.


The Kings pick is valuable, but the rest aren't. The Clippers pick is not going to be good absent them blowing it up. Guys like Harris are still improving.

The Memphis pick only becomes valuable if it does in fact roll over. It is not reverse protected though. That is why Memphis wants to win now--they want the pick gone this next draft, which is weak, and they still have Conley and Gasol so should be able to accomplish that barring health. All it takes is for them to finish out of the bottom 9 and that pick becomes not great value. The 10th pick in this next draft should have nowhere near the value as in this draft. If they don't win enough though, then the weaker protections kick in and that pick actually does become valuable, because they are built around 2 old players who are declining and the draft gets better in 2020 and 2021.

Point being, we ought to be able to beat Boston's offer (at least from a picks perspective. Maybe not from player if they are throwing in Tatum or Irving or something), because we can include our own picks, which ought to be more valuable than the Clipper and Memphis picks, and we can include unprotected 1sts in better drafts (Miami, and potentially Milwaukee). Boston's own picks are valueless.

Really we're just talking about the Kings pick here, so it would depend on if Memphis preferred a top 10 pick in next draft (that is the reasonable expectation with the new lottery imo, and the Kings were 7th this year in reverse and are young) versus our own future picks. I think a team like Memphis would prefer the 16th pick in this draft, and 1-2 of our own future picks. And for me I would do that for Doncic or Young.


Yeah, I know all the Celtics picks. The Kings pick is really valuable and the Clips in the tough west could still be pretty good. But they will want someone now, which is why I think if the Celtics threw in Jaylen Brown plus the Kings pick or something like that then they would be in business. Sounds a lot better to me than 16 and our picks, unless you are talking about our own next year, but Kings is still better, or throwing in Jackson who likely has less value than Brown. But, not sure they would put him in there either.

But I don't think that pick gets moved unless they just moved down within top 7 or 8, get a good player and a good future pick...a really good one...because, like you said, they want to win this season. so future assets, particularly not great ones are not too valuable.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2316 » by AtheJ415 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:21 am

bwgood77 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
The Kings pick looks pretty good to me...it's top 1 protected. The others might end up protected but would roll over. That Kings pick is a premier asset. By far better.

But we can't absorb Parsons either. We can't absorb much right now...we'd have to send out a couple of players.

Even if they dump Parsons they don't create more cap space for themselves being over the cap by 17 million or so....they would get under by 7 million and lose the MLE, which is bigger than the cap space it creates.


The Kings pick is valuable, but the rest aren't. The Clippers pick is not going to be good absent them blowing it up. Guys like Harris are still improving.

The Memphis pick only becomes valuable if it does in fact roll over. It is not reverse protected though. That is why Memphis wants to win now--they want the pick gone this next draft, which is weak, and they still have Conley and Gasol so should be able to accomplish that barring health. All it takes is for them to finish out of the bottom 9 and that pick becomes not great value. The 10th pick in this next draft should have nowhere near the value as in this draft. If they don't win enough though, then the weaker protections kick in and that pick actually does become valuable, because they are built around 2 old players who are declining and the draft gets better in 2020 and 2021.

Point being, we ought to be able to beat Boston's offer (at least from a picks perspective. Maybe not from player if they are throwing in Tatum or Irving or something), because we can include our own picks, which ought to be more valuable than the Clipper and Memphis picks, and we can include unprotected 1sts in better drafts (Miami, and potentially Milwaukee). Boston's own picks are valueless.

Really we're just talking about the Kings pick here, so it would depend on if Memphis preferred a top 10 pick in next draft (that is the reasonable expectation with the new lottery imo, and the Kings were 7th this year in reverse and are young) versus our own future picks. I think a team like Memphis would prefer the 16th pick in this draft, and 1-2 of our own future picks. And for me I would do that for Doncic or Young.


Yeah, I know all the Celtics picks. The Kings pick is really valuable and the Clips in the tough west could still be pretty good. But they will want someone now, which is why I think if the Celtics threw in Jaylen Brown plus the Kings pick or something like that then they would be in business. Sounds a lot better to me than 16 and our picks, unless you are talking about our own next year, but Kings is still better, or throwing in Jackson who likely has less value than Brown. But, not sure they would put him in there either.

But I don't think that pick gets moved unless they just moved down within top 7 or 8, get a good player and a good future pick...a really good one...because, like you said, they want to win this season. so future assets, particularly not great ones are not too valuable.


The Clips pick isn't valuable even in the tough West. The lowest I can see them with Lou Williams and Harris and Deandre (assuming he doesn't opt out), is late lottery. That isn't valuable in this next draft, and it has no chance of rolling over.

And I am talking about our own, and I don't know that the league really would view the Kings pick as necessarily better. They didn't finish 2nd worst. They just jumped in the lottery. They were 7th. And the Suns are not seen as a good team leaguewide even if some like our core. But yeah, I am talking about trading multiple of our own future picks and 16, or one of our unprotected picks (Miami) plus 16 and one of our unprotected picks. We can beat them on picks. We can't if they are trading players, but to get the pick and get rid of Parsons it will cost them a lot of players.
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2317 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:25 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
The Kings pick is valuable, but the rest aren't. The Clippers pick is not going to be good absent them blowing it up. Guys like Harris are still improving.

The Memphis pick only becomes valuable if it does in fact roll over. It is not reverse protected though. That is why Memphis wants to win now--they want the pick gone this next draft, which is weak, and they still have Conley and Gasol so should be able to accomplish that barring health. All it takes is for them to finish out of the bottom 9 and that pick becomes not great value. The 10th pick in this next draft should have nowhere near the value as in this draft. If they don't win enough though, then the weaker protections kick in and that pick actually does become valuable, because they are built around 2 old players who are declining and the draft gets better in 2020 and 2021.

Point being, we ought to be able to beat Boston's offer (at least from a picks perspective. Maybe not from player if they are throwing in Tatum or Irving or something), because we can include our own picks, which ought to be more valuable than the Clipper and Memphis picks, and we can include unprotected 1sts in better drafts (Miami, and potentially Milwaukee). Boston's own picks are valueless.

Really we're just talking about the Kings pick here, so it would depend on if Memphis preferred a top 10 pick in next draft (that is the reasonable expectation with the new lottery imo, and the Kings were 7th this year in reverse and are young) versus our own future picks. I think a team like Memphis would prefer the 16th pick in this draft, and 1-2 of our own future picks. And for me I would do that for Doncic or Young.


Yeah, I know all the Celtics picks. The Kings pick is really valuable and the Clips in the tough west could still be pretty good. But they will want someone now, which is why I think if the Celtics threw in Jaylen Brown plus the Kings pick or something like that then they would be in business. Sounds a lot better to me than 16 and our picks, unless you are talking about our own next year, but Kings is still better, or throwing in Jackson who likely has less value than Brown. But, not sure they would put him in there either.

But I don't think that pick gets moved unless they just moved down within top 7 or 8, get a good player and a good future pick...a really good one...because, like you said, they want to win this season. so future assets, particularly not great ones are not too valuable.


The Clips pick isn't valuable even in the tough West. The lowest I can see them with Lou Williams and Harris and Deandre (assuming he doesn't opt out), is late lottery. That isn't valuable in this next draft, and it has no chance of rolling over.

And I am talking about our own, and I don't know that the league really would view the Kings pick as necessarily better. They didn't finish 2nd worst. They just jumped in the lottery. They were 7th. And the Suns are not seen as a good team leaguewide even if some like our core. But yeah, I am talking about trading multiple of our own future picks and 16, or one of our unprotected picks (Miami) plus 16 and one of our unprotected picks. We can beat them on picks. We can't if they are trading players, but to get the pick and get rid of Parsons it will cost them a lot of players.


Multiple picks is a lot, but Memphis won't trade out without a player...a good one...not a guy like TJ...and obviously I really like him but he isn't the guy they would move the pick for. Obviously if we offer like 3 or 4 of our own picks and swaps and 16 and JJ or TJ maybe.
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Kerrsed
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Re: Almost off-season discussion! Trades/Free Agency Ep. 9 

Post#2318 » by Kerrsed » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 am

SO the question is, what assets would it take the Celtics to acquire #4/Parsons?

Then what other assets would it take the Celtics to drop Parsons on a 3rd team?

I thought we were also told that Memphis didnt want to drop too low in the lotto this year, so is the #27 going to cut it, or do they have to make another trade (BEFORE THE MEMPHIS ONE) to obtain a high draft pick....which will also take up assets.

That is a f**k-ton of assets just to go after one guy who hasnt stepped foot in the NBA yet. Seems very un-Celtic like to me.
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