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2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1321 » by Blonde » Thu Aug 2, 2018 7:07 pm

phnart wrote:Bender....Chriss....both total underachievers. I can't wait for the day when we have something better to discuss.

The good thing is that our success no longer depends on either of them panning out. If they do that’s great, but we aren’t relying on it like we were their first two years.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1322 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Aug 2, 2018 7:42 pm

Blonde wrote:
phnart wrote:Bender....Chriss....both total underachievers. I can't wait for the day when we have something better to discuss.

The good thing is that our success no longer depends on either of them panning out. If they do that’s great, but we aren’t relying on it like we were their first two years.


I think that Dragan's progress remains hugely important to our being a top-level team. Marquese's development at this point is gravy - if he comes on strong at some point, we're simply stacked.

....... but all of this is contingent on the success of exactly one player - Ayton. If he hits, we will contend. If he does not, it will be a struggle.

If JJ figures it out and Ayton does as well, we'll be a terror. If Dragan joins that group, our reign over the west will be pure tyranny.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1323 » by Fo-Real » Thu Aug 2, 2018 8:15 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:I don't think comparing Bender to Len is even close to being the same thing. Len is a traditional center who has stone hands, while Bender is a versatile 7 footer, capable of handling the ball and shooting above average from 3-point range. I think under Koko, Bender will have a breakout year. I'm not talking some crazy eye-popping numbers, but just having a positive impact on the floor that translates to wins. I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 12 points, 5.5 rebounds, 3 assist, 38% from 3. He should be shooting at least 5 3's a game. Bender doesn't have to be a star, he just needs to be productive, and with the correct system I think he can contribute.



I think the comparisons were each was picked high ( Bender 4th and Len 5th), when you pick in that range you expect to get an impact player if not right away at least in the near future. Also the fact that after each failing to initially live up to even near expatiation, neither seem to progress at the rate that anyone would hope. Actually the comparison is not far off in the fact that just like Len, the Suns are in the position of it being questioned if the option will be picked up on another high yet disappointing draft pick. Much like I hoped Len would work out his demons, I also hope Bender will, If Koko can make that happen I would be thrilled. I also hoped coaches, styles, vets like Chandler would help Len every different year and that has left me holding the bag. Its not about positions played, its about being on the same trajectory so far as brief flashes of good followed with blinding lasting blasts of failure from each, and Len is gone because of it. Same for Chriss, I hope as I always do that Chriss and Bender get their **** together (Im higher on Chriss than others, think he winds up better, and has been since the begining since he started over him from jump), but I hope they both find their mojo. Each has had brief flashes of not suckage, hope those flashes can be extended by good coaching, teammates, and system.

You have to forget about where the player was drafted and determine if he is useful or not. A big man who shoots 37% from three is useful.


The subject was comparison between the two, not shot percentage or being useful.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1324 » by lilfishi22 » Fri Aug 3, 2018 1:29 am

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
Blonde wrote:
phnart wrote:Bender....Chriss....both total underachievers. I can't wait for the day when we have something better to discuss.

The good thing is that our success no longer depends on either of them panning out. If they do that’s great, but we aren’t relying on it like we were their first two years.


I think that Dragan's progress remains hugely important to our being a top-level team. Marquese's development at this point is gravy - if he comes on strong at some point, we're simply stacked.

....... but all of this is contingent on the success of exactly one player - Ayton. If he hits, we will contend. If he does not, it will be a struggle.

If JJ figures it out and Ayton does as well, we'll be a terror. If Dragan joins that group, our reign over the west will be pure tyranny.

Totally agree. Both Bender and Chriss have both basically shown they don't have that high end potential which there was some hope for and they likely have role palyer potential at this stage. That's not necessarily a bad thing because Bender's profiles as an excellent complementary role player with his size and shooting abilities. Chriss is a bit more difficult to evaluate because he doesn't have that shooting consistency/abilities which means it would be difficult to play him in a stretch big role and he doesn't have a high level offensive skill either inside the 3pt line. Defensively his advanced stats show he had a decent season so there could be some value there but with his size and low BBIQ, it's hard to see him having defensive big potential either. Similarly but to a much lesser extent, I don't know about JJ's high end potential but given what I've seen, I still like his starting potential.

Our future success really does depend on our #1 pick, Ayton. I'll say this until Luka busts but I still think Luka should've been the guy but I'm happy with Ayton. Ayton's game doesn't quite fit as well in today's NBA where bigs are marginalised even on offense unless they are at that top 1% of big men who can carry a major offensive load like an AD, Boogie, Embiid and KAT. If you look at the big men in the league, the gulf between the best bigs and the rest is massive. Absolutely massive. That's what scared the hell out of me about taking a big man in this past draft. I do think Ayton is near that level of talent but whether he can put it into practice and impact the game like those guys will hinge on how much he wants to improve, how receptive he is to coaching and development and of course, how he's used on the court. The guy has all the tools, all the talent and from interviews, has said all the right things, so that's a good a foundation as you could hope for.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1325 » by NTB » Fri Aug 3, 2018 9:16 pm

Read on Twitter
carey wrote:It is 2-time, every time.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1326 » by King4Day » Fri Aug 3, 2018 9:39 pm

NTB wrote:
Read on Twitter


Really happy for him. Great video to watch too.

I wonder if this is a two-way contract.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1327 » by Puff » Fri Aug 3, 2018 10:40 pm

DarkHawk wrote:
NTB wrote:
Read on Twitter


Really happy for him. Great video to watch too.

I wonder if this is a two-way contract.


He was the best point guard on the roster last year.

I looked forward to the time he entered games, prior to his injury.

The Suns became totally unwatchable on most nights after his injury.

I hope he earns a roster spot at training camp.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1328 » by BobbieL » Sat Aug 4, 2018 12:15 am

that still leaves one player too many for the roster as I am not cutting Reed or Shaq for Canaan.

I don't mind if Canaan makes the roster but it probably means Chandler doesn't or Danielsof course
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1329 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sat Aug 4, 2018 1:04 am

BobbieL wrote:that still leaves one player too many for the roster as I am not cutting Reed or Shaq for Canaan.

I don't mind if Canaan makes the roster but it probably means Chandler doesn't or Danielsof course


Just means he'll be here for camp and preseason. Who knows what happens between now and the start of the year. We had a bunch of injuries last offseason - Reed, Knight, Williams. Those injuries are what put that tank engine at the top of the hill. We need steadiness, and Canaan's a part of our crew. Makes sense to me.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1330 » by jcsunsfan » Sat Aug 4, 2018 6:14 am

He worked hard and was injured playing hard. The Suns did right by him. He deserves a legit shot.


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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1331 » by Jdiddy701 » Sat Aug 4, 2018 7:01 am

I really really really like Isaiah Canaan, i really really really like Shaq Harrison. I’m torn.


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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1332 » by Puff » Sat Aug 4, 2018 7:23 am

Jdiddy701 wrote:I really really really like Isaiah Canaan, i really really really like Shaq Harrison. I’m torn.


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I like them both as well. Harrison is the better defender but Canaan is a better distributor and shooter.

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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1333 » by ATTL » Sat Aug 4, 2018 7:35 am

Get rid of troy, we have reed and bridges to play backup 2 minutes.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1334 » by Fo-Real » Sat Aug 4, 2018 3:31 pm

ATTL wrote:Get rid of troy, we have reed and bridges to play backup 2 minutes.


Or Shaq can play 1 and 2 in this offense.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1335 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sat Aug 4, 2018 4:44 pm

Fo-Real wrote:
ATTL wrote:Get rid of troy, we have reed and bridges to play backup 2 minutes.


Or Shaq can play 1 and 2 in this offense.


So can Knight.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1336 » by rcc8884 » Sat Aug 4, 2018 5:30 pm

I would think we could trade Troy for a top 45 protected second rounder from a team like the Lakers. Am I wrong in this assumption? I just think his scoring of the bench is valuable
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1337 » by Saberestar » Sat Aug 4, 2018 5:47 pm

rcc8884 wrote:I would think we could trade Troy for a top 45 protected second rounder from a team like the Lakers. Am I wrong in this assumption? I just think his scoring of the bench is valuable

We got him from Memphis next to a second round pick, so his value around the league was negative just a year ago.

I prefer Canaan or Harrison over Daniels, so I would be OK waive him.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1338 » by rcc8884 » Sat Aug 4, 2018 7:08 pm

Saberestar wrote:
rcc8884 wrote:I would think we could trade Troy for a top 45 protected second rounder from a team like the Lakers. Am I wrong in this assumption? I just think his scoring of the bench is valuable

We got him from Memphis next to a second round pick, so his value around the league was negative just a year ago.

I prefer Canaan or Harrison over Daniels, so I would be OK waive him.


Completely forgot how we got an asset in that trade. I would also rather waive him and keep Harrison and Canaan I just thought he might have improved his value over this past year and we could get something
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1339 » by Blonde » Sat Aug 4, 2018 7:59 pm

Daniels value increased by virtue of him only having one year left on his contract. He could be attractive to contenders down the stretch for a late 2nd but more than likely he’ll get waived/bought out.
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Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#1340 » by Saberestar » Sat Aug 4, 2018 8:53 pm

Blonde wrote:Daniels value increased by virtue of him only having one year left on his contract. He could be attractive to contenders down the stretch for a late 2nd but more than likely he’ll get waived/bought out.

If I was a GM of a team looking for a great shooter with no defense I would prefer to sign Fredette over trading for Daniels.

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