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Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast

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Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#1 » by Jimmy Recard » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:02 am

Didn’t transcribe their entire convo on the wiz but this is the gist of it. Zach knows his sh*t. Enjoy.

Lowe: That brings us to the other topic that I wanted to talk about which is the 1-5 Washington Wizards who took a collective dump on the court again last night. I watched half of that game last night and the other half this morning and it was pathetic and their team is playing patheticly. So here we are with the wizards again. It took 5 games.

Woj: and here comes Dwight...

Lowe: and here comes Dwight baby...it took 5 games for the wizards to start sniping at each other in public...if I have one regret this season it’s that in my predictions column I chickened out on the wizards missing the playoffs...cause I just don’t like this team.

Woj: you know Washington is a lot like Minnesota in this way, where you said, OK, we know the chemistry is screwed up we know these guys all generally don’t like each other. But you know what, they’ve gotten through it in other seasons and it’s gonna manifest itself at some point in the playoffs...and then all of sudden the season starts and you go, OK this can’t go on anymore. They’ve hit a breaking point.

Lowe: there next game is at Memphis, I believe it’s their last game of this road trip. They need to have a come to Jesus moment now. This is ugly and it’s terrible. If they lose against Memphis. I mean I don’t what you’ve heard, have you heard anything about Scotty? The buzz is that he’s actually safe, partly because he has so much money left of his contract.

Woj: yeah it was a 5 year 35 million dollar deal. 7 a year. By the way Scott Brooks' 7 million a year became a benchmark, a starting point for a lot of coaches negotiations. But anyway, you never say never, but...for the most part Ted Leonsis has had tremendous patience with people in Washington, he's been very loyal. Listen, no one can keep taking on water like that. No matter who the coach is, or management, you can't just keep getting blasted every night. You have to stabilize it. If this just keeps happening, it might feel different in 10 days or 2 weeks or a month. But you have to assume it can't keep going like this but so far it has.

Lowe: They are towards the bottom of the league in both offense and defense. They're switching more this season except they're terrible at it, because they don't talk to each other and part of their switching is just laziness. They just project as a very unhappy team...I thought last night against the Clippers they took a lot of hoggy shots. Like right at the beginning Otto Porter took a terrible baseline fade-away out of nothing, early in the shot clock too. Like why is he taking that shot? And then you remember all these guys were talking about shots and who wants shots. If you watch John wall when he doesn’t have the ball...there was a possession last night where the set called for him to get the ball to Porter at the top of the arc and then go to the corner, and boy, he went to the corner slower than I did when my parents asked me to take out the garbage. And then he puts his hands on his knees cause that’s what he does when he doesn’t have the ball. And then Ian Mahinmi, who’s make 16 million a year for some reason, was late going up to set a screen for Otto, so the timing of the play was screwed up, and John wall in the corner just throws his hands up, rolls his eyes and looks at the bench. And there were multiple things by other players like that. When you see stuff like that, it’s like this is a miserable, miserable team that needs to get wins now.
So if Scott Brooks is safe...

Woj: it’s all relative, I mean Ty Lue was safe Saturday.

Lowe: what can happen then? They’re trapped. They have 3 guys that between them are gonna make 100 mil starting next year. I don’t know what they can do.

Woj: here’s a question, who do you think you can get back more for, which guard?

Lowe: Beal, it’s not even close. As soon as wall signed the super max that became true. I wrote this in one of my preview columns, teams should be sniffing around Brad Beal now. They should be talking illegally to his agent, they should be talking to the wizards, because if this thing breaks apart, John walls trade value is at an all time low because the super max kicks in next year and the numbers are almost literally eye popping. There are questions about his knees and his conditioning. Otto Porter’s fine, he’s a little overpaid, fine, he’s a good player, a lot of teams would be happy to have him. Beal is really really good and on a contract that is very fair and a position if high value in the nba.

Woj: if they could just develop, like if there was one guy, like if kelly Oubre really developed after Otto, you would’ve thought that Otto and one other pretty good young player could’ve got them a third star. Whether it be hypothetically a jimmy butler...

Lowe: they should be trying to get jimmy butler.

Woj: yeah I know.

Lowe: I actually thought that they would.

Woj: yeah I did too.

Lowe: they are a really interesting study of team building. They can’t pay Oubre, he didn’t get an extension cause they can’t pay him. They just have too much money on the books. If you look at all there transactions since they picked Wall at number 1, cause you look at them now and you think oh my god they’re just trapped into this team that isn’t good, they’re trapped, they can’t do anything. How did they get here? Where are the support players? And it’s kinda like death by a thousand cuts. There are a couple of things that are abysmally terrible, like Ian Mahinmi’s contract is abysmally terrible and they had Gortat on the books when they signed him. Here are some of the things they’ve done. They miss on Vesely, that hurts. They trade what ends up being the 18th pick for Gortat, that pick could’ve been Gary Harris or jokic. They trade the 13th pick for Morris which could be levert or Siakim. They trade the 22nd pick for Bogdonovic’s expiring deal to Brooklyn. They also dumped Andrew Nicholson who was part of that deal.

Woj: how did they acquire Andrew Nicholson?

Lowe: by signing him to lots and lots of money. Where is Andrew Nicholson?

Woj: he’s in China

Lowe: so all these deals, like Morris on his contract has been fine and all those picks are what they are. Bogdonovic I think they knew he was gonna leave, that one hurts cause that pick’s in the range of OG Anunoby, Derrick White, Kuzma, josh hart, that hurts. They spin Gortat into Austin rivers, fine. Remember way back when they traded rashard lewis’s Non guaranteed contract which was allegedly one of the great trade chips in the league for Ariza and Okafor? everyone laughed at them. Turned out alright. They spin okafor for Gortat from Phoenix along with a pick. Ariza was great for them and then they let Ariza go. Why? Cause they were obsessed with hoarding room for Kevin Durant and then they didn’t get a meeting with Kevin Durant. My point is that all of these moves individually are like no harm no foul, but there’s just some sort of culmative opportunity cost of all the picks out the door and all the cap space used up in ways that are sub optimal...and then you throw in one contract like Mahinmi...

Woj: some of those mistakes have come..when free agency has emptied out and this is who’s left. Detroit signs Jon Leuer, they don’t get Leuer and then they get Nicholson. Another one, remember this one, they came pretty close to signing Luol Deng to a big contract.

Lowe: they offered him 3 years for 50 something

Woj: and that’s when lakers went to 4 years. And so think of that...

Lowe: if you look at some of there stats, I think they were third in assist rate last year. They’re 28th or 29th now. That’s an indication that the ball is not moving. And one thing I’ll give Dwight credit for is he’s a good rebounder and the wizards are dead last in rebounding with a defensive rebounding rate that would be the worst in 7 or 8 years. We’ll see. They should be, on raw talent, even if you think the wall Beal porter core is overrated which I think it’s being exposed as, but it’s the east, on raw talent you cannot miss the playoffs with those two guards on your team
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#2 » by trast66 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:20 am

Thanks for posting this. The two most plugged in guys in the league.

Fun fact that agents use Brooks outrageous contract as a benchmark for negotiations.
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#3 » by Jimmy Recard » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:04 am

trast66 wrote:Thanks for posting this. The two most plugged in guys in the league.

Fun fact that agents use Brooks outrageous contract as a benchmark for negotiations.

Yeah I shook my head during that part. Ernie’s incompetence getting other coaches overpaid too :lol:
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#4 » by gtn130 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:37 am

The Brooks contract is such an embarrassment. Wizards organization top to bottom really has no idea what it’s doing.

Totally punting on trading for Butler shows just how clueless they are - they don’t even realize how bad the situation is and how close they are to being Detroit or Charlotte. They’re basically already there.
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#5 » by Wiz99 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:37 am

This isn’t my worst year as a Wiz/Bullez fan since 1986... Yet.

But it’s got the makings.
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#6 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:49 am

Wiz99 wrote:This isn’t my worst year as a Wiz/Bullez fan since 1986... Yet.

But it’s got the makings.
Don't fear...

They'll snatch ahold of mediocrity before too long.

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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#7 » by Eli Babak » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:35 am

Thank you. All the people (in the basketball world) should listen to/read this and maybe something would happen. Right now I just want Ted, Ernie, Brooks & Wall gone... :)
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#8 » by closg00 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:01 am

gtn130 wrote:The Brooks contract is such an embarrassment. Wizards organization top to bottom really has no idea what it’s doing.

Totally punting on trading for Butler shows just how clueless they are - they don’t even realize how bad the situation is and how close they are to being Detroit or Charlotte. They’re basically already there.

Ernie also panic-signs GM’s. Does anyone recall how SB became the coach? A desperate Ernie flew to Scott and threw the money at him, no-doubt he feared someone other team would scoop him up so of-course he threw-down ridiculous contract per-usual. I dunno how Ted would ever pay-out again for another EG Coach after Flip. Watching and waiting.
Tank 19/20, trade Brad, Top-5 pick in 2020.
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#9 » by montestewart » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:37 am

Eli Babak wrote:Thank you. All the people (in the basketball world) should listen to/read this and maybe something would happen. Right now I just want Ted, Ernie, Brooks & Wall gone... :)

The Wizards' new "Big 3"?
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#10 » by nate33 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:57 am

Eli Babak wrote:Right now I just want Ted, Ernie, Brooks & Wall gone... :)

That really is what it's going to take to turn this franchise around.

Wall has to go to kickstart the tank and to free up enough cap room so they can at least retain good young players like Sato and Oubre. EG has to go because he has never been a good GM and has no capability of building through the draft. Ted has to go because the team sucks as an institution and needs new institutional leadership.

Of course, none of this is gonna happen. Ted and EG are here for life. The most likely scenario is that Porter is packaged with a pick for a "star" who is probably overpaid, overrated, and over-the-hill; (or the star leaves after one season).

It might be another 20 years before this team ever wins 50 games. It truly is remarkable. It's been 40 years since their last 50-win season! And 50 wins isn't really THAT hard. A quarter of the teams in the league do it every year.
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#11 » by queridiculo » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:03 pm

nate33 wrote:
Eli Babak wrote:Right now I just want Ted, Ernie, Brooks & Wall gone... :)

That really is what it's going to take to turn this franchise around.

Wall has to go to kickstart the tank and to free up enough cap room so they can at least retain good young players like Sato and Oubre. EG has to go because he has never been a good GM and has no capability of building through the draft. Ted has to go because the team sucks as an institution and needs new institutional leadership.

Of course, none of this is gonna happen. Ted and EG are here for life. The most likely scenario is that Porter is packaged with a pick for a "star" who is probably overpaid, overrated, and over-the-hill; (or the star leaves after one season).

It might be another 20 years before this team ever wins 50 games. It truly is remarkable. It's been 40 years since their last 50-win season! And 50 wins isn't really THAT hard. A quarter of the teams in the league do it every year.


You know, and it's not like anything Zach Lowe is saying is news.

This **** has simply flown under the radar because the franchise has been irrelevant for so long that nobody gives a ****.

What other market do Leonsis and Grunfeld get away with this gross incompetence?
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#12 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:20 pm

Damn, guys. I didn't realize things were this dire in Washington. Hang in there fellas. There's...hope?

Read on Twitter



Damn?!?!?

Obvious solution no one wants to admit: You guys gotta dump Beal (and Porter) for young/cheap players and expiring contracts.

Talk to Atlanta.

Spoiler:
NBA Teams That Need To Hit The Reset Button

Bradley Beal is the Wizards' quickest path to a midseason renovation. He's owed a reasonable two years and $55.8 million after 2018-19. Teams will fork over value for someone who can be the central focus of an offense while he moonlights as an orbiting marksman.

Porter is a tick overpaid with two years and $55.7 million left on his deal after this season. Teams will absorb him; he's plug-and-play nirvana. But turning him into a net-plus collection of role players, picks and prospects will be tough.
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#13 » by queridiculo » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:25 pm

closg00 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:The Brooks contract is such an embarrassment. Wizards organization top to bottom really has no idea what it’s doing.

Totally punting on trading for Butler shows just how clueless they are - they don’t even realize how bad the situation is and how close they are to being Detroit or Charlotte. They’re basically already there.

Ernie also panic-signs GM’s. Does anyone recall how SB became the coach? A desperate Ernie flew to Scott and threw the money at him, no-doubt he feared someone other team would scoop him up so of-course he threw-down ridiculous contract per-usual. I dunno how Ted would ever pay-out again for another EG Coach after Flip. Watching and waiting.


Brooks becoming headcoach of the Wizards was an edict sent down from Leonsis.

No doubt Ted figured that signing Brooks was the key to landing Durant.

Brooks agent earned himself every penny on that one, spotted a sucker and milked him something fierce.

$7 million is a crazy enough figure, but 5 years? You don't typically see headcoaches being show that kind of trust.

Also hired in 2016:

Mike D’Antoni - 3 years, $15 million, 4th year team option
Nate McMillan - 3 years, compensation unknown but knowing how frugal they are, I'd be surprised if he gets anything close to $5 million a year
Luke Walton - 5 years, $25 million
David Fizdale - 4 years, $10.2 million
Tom Thibodeau - 5 years, $40 million
Frank Vogel - 4 years, $22 million
Earl Watson - 3 years, $7.5 million
Dave Joerger - 3 years, $12 million 4th year team option
Jeff Hornacek - 3 years, $15 million
Kenny Atkinson - 4 years, $10 million

From that list, I'd have a hard time putting Brooks in the top 5.
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#14 » by pcbothwel » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:09 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Damn, guys. I didn't realize things were this dire in Washington. Hang in there fellas. There's...hope?

Read on Twitter



Damn?!?!?

Obvious solution no one wants to admit: You guys gotta dump Beal (and Porter) for young/cheap players and expiring contracts.

Talk to Atlanta.

Spoiler:
NBA Teams That Need To Hit The Reset Button

Bradley Beal is the Wizards' quickest path to a midseason renovation. He's owed a reasonable two years and $55.8 million after 2018-19. Teams will fork over value for someone who can be the central focus of an offense while he moonlights as an orbiting marksman.

Porter is a tick overpaid with two years and $55.7 million left on his deal after this season. Teams will absorb him; he's plug-and-play nirvana. But turning him into a net-plus collection of role players, picks and prospects will be tough.
Bleacher Report


Its bad, but there is some upside with Wall. His strength/balance right now are absurd. He's mini Lebron and finishing through contact like never before. That, along with his improved defense and less iso 2's are enough for me to be okay with where he is. Again, he looks healthy and active on D while showing a MUCH better shot selection and ability to draw Fouls...I'll take it.

His 3 will settle back in to the low-mid 30% range and by seasons end will be a 5-7 PG in the NBA. We can live with that... especially considering the other top PG's are getting up there (Lowry, CP3, Conley, etc.) and I dont see a crop coming up behind them.
I also feel the same about Otto. He seems to be in a funk, but he looks good physically. He needs time.

Beal and Oubre to me would be the big moves to make. I think you can reboot this team on the fly by trading both. I love Beal, but feel someone will give up the ranch for him and we should be willing to do it.

Obviously, a FO move would need to occur first as I dont trust EG, but still. Now, outside of a continued collapse, I wouldnt make any move for another month or 2...
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#15 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:14 pm

pcbothwel wrote:Its bad, but there is some upside with Wall.

Beal and Oubre to me would be the big moves to make. I think you can reboot this team on the fly by trading both. I love Beal, but feel someone will give up the ranch for him and we should be willing to do it.

...I wouldn't make any move for another month or 2...



Noted.

You guys have any interest in Taurean Prince/John Collins and Kent Bazemore for contract matching? Maybe throw in a top-5 protected pick from Dallas so that we can get our hands on Bradley Beal?


3 & D wings on manageable contracts, young exciting big man. That's gotta at least be in the ballpark, right?
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#16 » by queridiculo » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:18 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:

Noted.

You guys have any interest in Taurean Prince/John Collins and Kent Bazemore for contract matching? Maybe throw in a top-5 protected pick from Dallas so that we can get our hands on Bradley Beal?


3 & D wings on manageable contracts, young exciting big man. That's gotta at least be in the ballpark, right?


No interest at all, and no, it's not close.

Beal has more value than a bunch of role players (including one on a bad deal) and a protected pick.

Also, dealing in division alone demands a premium.

We also have a trade thread for this kind of stuff..
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#17 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:24 pm

queridiculo wrote:No interest at all, and no, it's not close.

We also have a trade thread for this kind of stuff..



Image

Noted.


(I was under the impression salary relief was one of the desired goals of breaking up this...core.)
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#18 » by pcbothwel » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:27 pm

Nope. Ceiling is too low. Prince is almost 25 and looks to be a 'good' player, but nothing more. If we miss out on that pick, we look stupid. Beal is the best player on the team and will be a top 3-4 SG by the AS break. At his age and contract, he's a premium player.

ATL is simply too early in the rebuild to get him. I'd want a top 5-7 pick plus an asset, and the Mavs protection makes it too risky.

Philly, LAL, maybe Denver all have better assets and are in position to make a Win-now move.
I'd also see if Houston would do a Gordon, filler, plus 3-4 picks for Beal as well. Might not be the best package, but an intriguing one.
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#19 » by nate33 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:28 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Damn, guys. I didn't realize things were this dire in Washington. Hang in there fellas. There's...hope?

Read on Twitter



Damn?!?!?

Obvious solution no one wants to admit: You guys gotta dump Beal (and Porter) for young/cheap players and expiring contracts.

Talk to Atlanta.

Spoiler:
NBA Teams That Need To Hit The Reset Button

Bradley Beal is the Wizards' quickest path to a midseason renovation. He's owed a reasonable two years and $55.8 million after 2018-19. Teams will fork over value for someone who can be the central focus of an offense while he moonlights as an orbiting marksman.

Porter is a tick overpaid with two years and $55.7 million left on his deal after this season. Teams will absorb him; he's plug-and-play nirvana. But turning him into a net-plus collection of role players, picks and prospects will be tough.
Bleacher Report

What's the point of trading Beal for cap room and picks? There will never be cap room as long as Wall is on the roster and Wall doesn't have enough time in his career to wait for a rebuild through the draft.

Better to trade Wall, even if the return is much less. At least Beal and Porter are just 25 years old and are young enough to go through a rebuild.
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Re: Zach Lowe and Woj talk ‘pathetic’ Wizards on Lowe podcast 

Post#20 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:35 pm

nate33 wrote:What's the point of trading Beal for cap room and picks? There will never be cap room as long as Wall is on the roster and Wall doesn't have enough time in his career to wait for a rebuild through the draft.

Better to trade Wall, even if the return is much less. At least Beal and Porter are just 25 years old and are young enough to go through a rebuild.




If you say so; but know that Beal is likely to be moved in the next year plus.


FTR, I was advocating moving Wall years ago before general consensus caught on. That suggestion was received about as well as the suggestion to trade Beal now.

But it is inevitable that Bradley leaves the dysfunction on that team. It's best for Wiz fans that you capitalize while his stock is at its highest.


Spoiler:
Jamaaliver wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:Your words are hurtful. PS You guys should consider trading Wall



Tricky_Kid wrote:No point of trading allstar PG for picks we aren't in rebuild mode.



Seriously...you guys need to consider trading John Wall. Don't wait until his value tanks and it's too late.

Miami, Philly, New Orleans, Sacramento each seem like natural trading partners.
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