2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

[slick_watts]

Why does it depend on how you get the shot?


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Increased chance to draw fouls, move the defense, open Lanes for passes and offensive rebounds when you take a shot moving towards the basket.

I get that. That makes sense. But at the same time, in a vacuum, Ferguson’s 31.3% shot holds a hair more value than a Westbrook 3-pointer and a Westbrook mid-range jumper. Again, I repeat, in a vacuum from a mathematical standpoint.

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sure, but you need to factor in usage. ferguson's usage and shot rate is low because he needs a specific set of circumstances to occur in order for him to shoot a three. westbrook can get a mid-range shot with more or less the same expected value any time he wants. so, it's really not comparable.

a player like ferguson shooting 31% from three on .700 3PAr just isn't valuable offensively. in fact, of players with .650 3PAr, it's atrocious. very few players shoot threes that often relative to other shots and shoot so poorly. josh huestis is an example. semi ojeleye in boston. ferguson shooting 31% from three is not a feather in his cap if that's 70% of the shots he's taking bro.

[getrichordie]

YIKES

[Windhorst & The Hoop Collective Podcast] “You talk to scouts, they will tell you that essentially Westbrook has no interest in anything that Billy Donovan has to say offensively from the bench.”

http://reddit.com/r/nba/comments/a0oplk/windhorst_the_hoop_collective_podcast_you_talk_to/

...

Please read the quote before commenting on this.

—

I’m sure some will say that this validates their viewpoint that Donovan is a bad coach, but I see this as a Westbrook issue. Westbrook kind of reminds me of the drummer from the movie Drumline who is amazing but doesn’t know how to read sheet music.


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[Pillendreher]

Yes, a "scout" knows what is coming from the bench and how much of it Westbrook actually listens to. Like when he said they let players stand before a whiteboard during media availability because it makes them less emotional a couple of minutes later. Right.

All pod long he was making an effort to get something negative in there for every thing Royce said. I don't need goo cop bad cops from journalists.

[Old Man Game]

Yes, a "scout" knows what is coming from the bench and how much of it Westbrook actually listens to. Like when he said they let players stand before a whiteboard during media availability because it makes them less emotional a couple of minutes later. Right.

All pod long he was making an effort to get something negative in there for every thing Royce said. I don't need goo cop bad cops from journalists.

Catch me up, please. What was this in reference to?

[Pillendreher]

Yes, a "scout" knows what is coming from the bench and how much of it Westbrook actually listens to. Like when he said they let players stand before a whiteboard during media availability because it makes them less emotional a couple of minutes later. Right.

All pod long he was making an effort to get something negative in there for every thing Royce said. I don't need goo cop bad cops from journalists.

Catch me up, please. What was this in reference to?

Well they were talking about the Denver game and Royce rehashed the whole "shooting after the game thing". That's what Windhorst used as a queue to get his shots in

-This scout thing
-When Royce said the media gets to talk to the Thunder player after they've showered and dressed, Windhorst was trying to get him to badmouth them for that ("And you know Royce why there doing that...").so when Royce wouldn't go along, he said that probably some Thunder people would call him for saying this but he's going to say it anyway - they have that rule so that players cool down and don't say something controversial. And that was why they stand in front of a whiteboard.

It was like he was going out of his way to bash both Westbrook and the Thunder as a franchise even though the conversation didn't even call for it. They were just talking about the Thunder playing well and the Westbrook delaying the whole post game ritual with his shooting practice. For whatever reason Windhorst was desperate to get his spin out there.

Oh and on this scouts thing: That's the exact same bs as those "anonymous scout reports" Ben Golliver has been doing for SI. More often than not these "reports" go beyond the scope of scout and these journalists use them to get their hottakes in by hiding behind this supposed competence and objectivity of the scouts.

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[Old Man Game]

Yes, a "scout" knows what is coming from the bench and how much of it Westbrook actually listens to. Like when he said they let players stand before a whiteboard during media availability because it makes them less emotional a couple of minutes later. Right.

All pod long he was making an effort to get something negative in there for every thing Royce said. I don't need goo cop bad cops from journalists.

Catch me up, please. What was this in reference to?

Well they were talking about the Denver game and Royce rehashed the whole "shooting after the game thing". That's what Windhorst used as a queue to get his shots in

-This scout thing
-When Royce said the media gets to talk to the Thunder player after they've showered and dressed, Windhorst was trying to get him to badmouth them for that ("And you know Royce why there doing that...").so when Royce wouldn't go along, he said that probably some Thunder people would call him for saying this but he's going to say it anyway - they have that rule so that players cool down and don't say something controversial. And that was why they stand in front of a whiteboard.

It was like he was going out of his way to bash both Westbrook and the Thunder as a franchise even though the conversation didn't even call for it. They were just talking about the Thunder playing well and the Westbrook delaying the whole post game ritual with his shooting practice. For whatever reason Windhorst was desperate to get his spin out there.

Oh and on this scouts thing: That's the exact same bs as those "anonymous scout reports" Ben Golliver has been doing for SI. More often than not these "reports" go beyond the scope of scout and these journalists use them to get their hottakes in by hiding behind this supposed competence and objectivity of the scouts.

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That's interesting (the cool down period thing). It's not actually a bad idea. Stops unnecessary drama. Probably really helps with avoiding fines over officiating as well.

[slick_watts]

everything that was said about westbrook is common knowledge. you don't need a scout to tell anyone that.

[Dadouv47]

Weird that PG13 stayed in OKC to play with someone that is not listening to his coach/team.

Seriously, since cupcake left Westbrook played higher BBIQ when it mattered. First playoff series against the rockets he tried to pass the ball but no one could make a bucket so he had to go solo. Last year was one of his worst years in many aspect but before Roberson's injury he was playing smart basketball and during the playoffs he was trying to play smart and unselfish until he and PG13 had to go solo because our team sucked so much.

[bondom34]

When has Windy been an insider on the Thunder since? Oh, and I for one am shocked, FLOORED GROD still thinks Schroder has been better and posted this. STUNNED

[slick_watts]

Weird that PG13 stayed in OKC to play with someone that is not listening to his coach/team.

Seriously, since cupcake left Westbrook played higher BBIQ when it mattered. First playoff series against the rockets he tried to pass the ball but no one could make a bucket so he had to go solo. Last year was one of his worst years in many aspect but before Roberson's injury he was playing smart basketball and during the playoffs he was trying to play smart and unselfish until he and PG13 had to go solo because our team sucked so much.

WHAT. westbrook was horrific against utah games 1-4. how can you forget game 4 when he promised to shut down rubio and ended up getting himself in foul trouble while wearing all that ridiculous tape on his shoulders? if not for miraculous three point shooting in games 5-6 his series would have been dreadful as a whole.

the problem with westbrook isn't that he doesn't know what to do. obviously he has games or stretches where he can be brilliant because he's a super duper star. the problem is that he's entirely capable and liable to abandon all that to pursue what he believes is the best course to winning-- and usually it isn't! some like to focus on the anecdotal success but in the end we all know that when westbrook plays like 'bad russ' it's bad for the team in the long run.

paul george was quoted in the offseason as enjoying playing for the thunder because there isn't much of a system and they can freestyle or do what they want when they feel its necessary. he's on the exact same page as westbrook in this respect.

did you miss dennis schroder against denver pounding the ball in frustration after westbrook bricked a pull-up three then abandoned his defensive responsibility?

[bondom34]

GROD is taking notes somewhere.

And lol at this conversation.

[slick_watts]

GROD is taking notes somewhere.

And lol at this conversation.

he is on his own path.

[Dadouv47]

Weird that PG13 stayed in OKC to play with someone that is not listening to his coach/team.

Seriously, since cupcake left Westbrook played higher BBIQ when it mattered. First playoff series against the rockets he tried to pass the ball but no one could make a bucket so he had to go solo. Last year was one of his worst years in many aspect but before Roberson's injury he was playing smart basketball and during the playoffs he was trying to play smart and unselfish until he and PG13 had to go solo because our team sucked so much.

WHAT. westbrook was horrific against utah games 1-4. how can you forget game 4 when he promised to shut down rubio and ended up getting himself in foul trouble while wearing all that ridiculous tape on his shoulders? if not for miraculous three point shooting in games 5-6 his series would have been dreadful as a whole.

the problem with westbrook isn't that he doesn't know what to do. obviously he has games or stretches where he can be brilliant because he's a super duper star. the problem is that he's entirely capable and liable to abandon all that to pursue what he believes is the best course to winning-- and usually it isn't! some like to focus on the anecdotal success but in the end we all know that when westbrook plays like 'bad russ' it's bad for the team in the long run.

paul george was quoted in the offseason as enjoying playing for the thunder because there isn't much of a system and they can freestyle or do what they want when they feel its necessary. he's on the exact same page as westbrook in this respect.

did you miss dennis schroder against denver pounding the ball in frustration after westbrook bricked a pull-up three then abandoned his defensive responsibility?

What I'm saying is that It wasn't low basketball IQ or not following Donovan's orders : he just played terrible basketball. That's different. If that was the case he would have attacked the paint despite knowing Gobert was there (which he didn't). And he took an average of 3.5 3pts shoots between game 1 and 4 (which is not crazy high)

[Patches Perry]

Weird that PG13 stayed in OKC to play with someone that is not listening to his coach/team.

And Adams. And Grant. And Roberson.

Do Westbrook's teammates get frustrated if he takes a bad shot or tries to make a hero play? Of course! Same can be said of every player in the league not named Steph Curry I'm guessing. Harden, Durant, even LeBron try to make those hero shots regularly. The only way to escape that is to go to a team without one of the best players in the league, in which case, your team will likely not win a lot of games.

[Pillendreher]

Windhorst knows he's talking to a certain audience with this stuff.

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[slick_watts]

i think it's interesting we're deflecting criticism of westbrook's behavior on the court by naming players who have re-signed with the thunder. kevin durant really scarred you guys, huh.

james harden, kevin durant, and lebron james try to make hero shots yes. but they are >>>>>> better shot makers <<<<<<. this is a part of their skillsets, especially harden and durant. of players who attempted 500 or more jump shots last year, westbrook ranked 93 of 98 on eFG. you are creating a false equivalence.

[bondom34]

Ah yes, clearly he should be Ricky Rubio.

[slick_watts]

Ah yes, clearly he should be Ricky Rubio.

no of course not. this isn't fox news, every discussion point doesn't need to be polarized or straw manned into oblivion. westbrook doesn't have to be ricky rubio. but he also shouldn't be attempting 12 threes in a game. none of those other star players would so blatantly defy their skillsets on such a regular basis. this is why there is a 'bad russ' moniker and you don't hear people talking about 'bad durant' or 'bad harden'. this is a westbrook-specific thing among players of his caliber.

you're not less of a fan for accepting this, it's part of who he is. i mean, is it a shock that a player with catchphrases like 'why not?' and 'now i do what i want' is difficult to coach? come on.

[bondom34]

I don't think anyone wants him taking 12 threes on most occassions. And you don't hear about "bad Durant" or "bad Harden" yet they have games fairly regularly like Harden's 11 TOs last night or Durant tuning down GSW's offense. And why didn't Durant run a different offense when the team was structured around him? Or why did he trash Donovan? Or why hasn't the offense changed when Westbrook missed time? Or why hasn't Brooks coached ball movement? Maybe the coaches aren't preaching the things being stated. Because I'd say if Windhorst were trashing Donovan and praising Westbrook you'd be on record with Windy as a hack.

[getrichordie]

Catch me up, please. What was this in reference to?

Well they were talking about the Denver game and Royce rehashed the whole "shooting after the game thing". That's what Windhorst used as a queue to get his shots in

-This scout thing
-When Royce said the media gets to talk to the Thunder player after they've showered and dressed, Windhorst was trying to get him to badmouth them for that ("And you know Royce why there doing that...").so when Royce wouldn't go along, he said that probably some Thunder people would call him for saying this but he's going to say it anyway - they have that rule so that players cool down and don't say something controversial. And that was why they stand in front of a whiteboard.

It was like he was going out of his way to bash both Westbrook and the Thunder as a franchise even though the conversation didn't even call for it. They were just talking about the Thunder playing well and the Westbrook delaying the whole post game ritual with his shooting practice. For whatever reason Windhorst was desperate to get his spin out there.

Oh and on this scouts thing: That's the exact same bs as those "anonymous scout reports" Ben Golliver has been doing for SI. More often than not these "reports" go beyond the scope of scout and these journalists use them to get their hottakes in by hiding behind this supposed competence and objectivity of the scouts.

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That's interesting (the cool down period thing). It's not actually a bad idea. Stops unnecessary drama. Probably really helps with avoiding fines over officiating as well.

The whiteboard thing is taken out of context just a bit. They are simply saying it’s less crowded for them in front of the whiteboard, which is why it was mentioned.

Windhorst is pretty much saying whatever is on his mind on that podcast. He’s not trying to pretty it up like on TV. I wouldn’t say he was bashing OKC but instead he just seemed flabbergasted about the whole Westbrook keeping people from going home thing.


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