ImageImageImageImageImage

Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

Moderators: mpharris36, j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks

What should the Knicks approach be with Frank

Try to develop until prime years (~26) - essentially hold until it's 100% clear what he is
45
30%
Hold and try to develop until the end of rookie contract
64
43%
Hold until season's end/middle of next season to make a decision
13
9%
Look to trade him now for assets and/or a salary dump
23
15%
Other
5
3%
 
Total votes: 150

User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 48,099
And1: 11,028
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#141 » by NoLayupRule » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:40 pm

Quite simply there is no rush or reason to trade frank
Development takes years. For some players and positions it takes even longer. The pg position is the hardest. And frank is still only 20

He’s not expensive and we don’t have any motivation to move him

Just be calm people. Develop over time like real teams do
Thugger HBC
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 49,679
And1: 18,760
Joined: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Defense+efficient offense=titles...what do you have?
       

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#142 » by Thugger HBC » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:47 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:Quite simply there is no rush or reason to trade frank
Development takes years. For some players and positions it takes even longer. The pg position is the hardest. And frank is still only 20

He’s not expensive and we don’t have any motivation to move him

Just be calm people. Develop over time like real teams do

I honestly cant think of but a few teams that actually took time and patience with a pg, didn't trade them and let them develop.

MCW immediately came to mind, won ROTY and got traded. Fultz came back in the season...logged virtually zero playoff minutes despite being healthy to play.

I saw people brought up nash but he didn't stick originally with his drafted team.

Then Billups.

Lakers didn't keep D-Lo, drafted another one in his place. I can see the Knicks doing the same with Ja, and it's precisely why they went out the last two years and added Burke and Mudiay.

You either got it or you don't, the pg position isn't one where teams wait and see.


Frank is 20, but Frank is on the clock.
R. I. P. Mamba 8/23/78 - 1/26/20

Gone, but will never be forgotten
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 71,855
And1: 69,930
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: Newsday: Knicks working on Frank's confidence 

Post#143 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:52 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
robillionaire wrote:This may very well wind up being the worst draft pick in knicks history


please


Frederic Weiss is the worst draft pick in Knicks history.

Mike Sweetney wasn't a great one either.

Frank is nothing close to the worst pick ever no matter how he turns out
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 71,855
And1: 69,930
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#144 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:54 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:Quite simply there is no rush or reason to trade frank
Development takes years. For some players and positions it takes even longer. The pg position is the hardest. And frank is still only 20

He’s not expensive and we don’t have any motivation to move him

Just be calm people. Develop over time like real teams do

I honestly cant think of but a few teams that actually took time and patience with a pg, didn't trade them and let them develop.

MCW immediately came to mind, won ROTY and got traded. Fultz came back in the season...logged virtually zero playoff minutes despite being healthy to play.

I saw people brought up nash but he didn't stick originally with his drafted team.

Then Billups.

Lakers didn't keep D-Lo, drafted another one in his place. I can see the Knicks doing the same with Ja, and it's precisely why they went out the last two years and added Burke and Mudiay.

You either got it or you don't, the pg position isn't one where teams wait and see.


Frank is 20, but Frank is on the clock.


I'd say we can be pretty certain Frank has to up his level during this season to make the FO consider him part of the long-term future.
Thugger HBC
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 49,679
And1: 18,760
Joined: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Defense+efficient offense=titles...what do you have?
       

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#145 » by Thugger HBC » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:01 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:Quite simply there is no rush or reason to trade frank
Development takes years. For some players and positions it takes even longer. The pg position is the hardest. And frank is still only 20

He’s not expensive and we don’t have any motivation to move him

Just be calm people. Develop over time like real teams do

I honestly cant think of but a few teams that actually took time and patience with a pg, didn't trade them and let them develop.

MCW immediately came to mind, won ROTY and got traded. Fultz came back in the season...logged virtually zero playoff minutes despite being healthy to play.

I saw people brought up nash but he didn't stick originally with his drafted team.

Then Billups.

Lakers didn't keep D-Lo, drafted another one in his place. I can see the Knicks doing the same with Ja, and it's precisely why they went out the last two years and added Burke and Mudiay.

You either got it or you don't, the pg position isn't one where teams wait and see.


Frank is 20, but Frank is on the clock.


I'd say we can be pretty certain Frank has to up his level during this season to make the FO consider him part of the long-term future.

You gotta remember, these guys didn't draft him. They know this, Frank knows this. Frank is in a really bad position. The team is trying to be supportive, but has no real vested interest there. Frank is a Phil holdover. I would say KP is as well, but KP has proven himself during his time here pretty much from day one, he just needs to recover.

Frank issues are in his head.
R. I. P. Mamba 8/23/78 - 1/26/20

Gone, but will never be forgotten
User avatar
Phish Tank
RealGM
Posts: 19,762
And1: 12,708
Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Location: Your Timepiece
   

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#146 » by Phish Tank » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:13 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:I honestly cant think of but a few teams that actually took time and patience with a pg, didn't trade them and let them develop.

MCW immediately came to mind, won ROTY and got traded. Fultz came back in the season...logged virtually zero playoff minutes despite being healthy to play.

I saw people brought up nash but he didn't stick originally with his drafted team.

Then Billups.

Lakers didn't keep D-Lo, drafted another one in his place. I can see the Knicks doing the same with Ja, and it's precisely why they went out the last two years and added Burke and Mudiay.

You either got it or you don't, the pg position isn't one where teams wait and see.


Frank is 20, but Frank is on the clock.


I'd say we can be pretty certain Frank has to up his level during this season to make the FO consider him part of the long-term future.

You gotta remember, these guys didn't draft him. They know this, Frank knows this. Frank is in a really bad position. The team is trying to be supportive, but has no real vested interest there. Frank is a Phil holdover. I would say KP is as well, but KP has proven himself during his time here pretty much from day one, he just needs to recover.

Frank issues are in his head.


The question is whether any of the replacement PGs you get in this draft are really the solution....

and do you trust Perry & Mills to find that cerebral PG or are they just looking for someone to excite fans via YouTube highlights?
Image
whocares1
RealGM
Posts: 10,125
And1: 6,264
Joined: Oct 31, 2014
     

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#147 » by whocares1 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:23 pm

Phish Tank wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
I'd say we can be pretty certain Frank has to up his level during this season to make the FO consider him part of the long-term future.

You gotta remember, these guys didn't draft him. They know this, Frank knows this. Frank is in a really bad position. The team is trying to be supportive, but has no real vested interest there. Frank is a Phil holdover. I would say KP is as well, but KP has proven himself during his time here pretty much from day one, he just needs to recover.

Frank issues are in his head.


The question is whether any of the replacement PGs you get in this draft are really the solution....

and do you trust Perry & Mills to find that cerebral PG or are they just looking for someone to excite fans via YouTube highlights?


They don’t have to draft a point guard and honestly they shouldn’t. This FO went with Knox even though he wasn’t anyone’s favorite and look how he turned out. There isn’t a clear solution at point guard but Frank has never been even close to one. A point guard will likely come via free agency.
User avatar
br7knicks
RealGM
Posts: 34,739
And1: 10,644
Joined: Dec 01, 2008
     

Re: Newsday: Knicks working on Frank's confidence 

Post#148 » by br7knicks » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:25 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
robillionaire wrote:This may very well wind up being the worst draft pick in knicks history


please


Frederic Weiss is the worst draft pick in Knicks history.

Mike Sweetney wasn't a great one either.

Frank is nothing close to the worst pick ever no matter how he turns out


Yeah, that sentence isn't even opinion, it's just straight wrong. It's like saying the sun is cold; it's not opinion, it's just false.

Just in the last 10 years, frank has already had a better career than:

Jaramaz, early antentkonmpoodidjfmgbd, papanakdilpou, Andy rautins.
RIP, magnumt '19

PG: M Smart/E Bledsoe/I Smith
SG: D Russell/C LeVert/L Stephenson
SF: H Barnes/T Horton Tucker/
PF: T Harris/C Boucher/B Griffin/
C: J Valanciunas/J McGee/
Thugger HBC
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 49,679
And1: 18,760
Joined: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Defense+efficient offense=titles...what do you have?
       

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#149 » by Thugger HBC » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:26 pm

Phish Tank wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
I'd say we can be pretty certain Frank has to up his level during this season to make the FO consider him part of the long-term future.

You gotta remember, these guys didn't draft him. They know this, Frank knows this. Frank is in a really bad position. The team is trying to be supportive, but has no real vested interest there. Frank is a Phil holdover. I would say KP is as well, but KP has proven himself during his time here pretty much from day one, he just needs to recover.

Frank issues are in his head.


The question is whether any of the replacement PGs you get in this draft are really the solution....

and do you trust Perry & Mills to find that cerebral PG or are they just looking for someone to excite fans via YouTube highlights?

Only time will tell, but sports is entertainment. I think you can find a good pg and one that excites in the same package.
R. I. P. Mamba 8/23/78 - 1/26/20

Gone, but will never be forgotten
User avatar
Phish Tank
RealGM
Posts: 19,762
And1: 12,708
Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Location: Your Timepiece
   

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#150 » by Phish Tank » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:27 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:You gotta remember, these guys didn't draft him. They know this, Frank knows this. Frank is in a really bad position. The team is trying to be supportive, but has no real vested interest there. Frank is a Phil holdover. I would say KP is as well, but KP has proven himself during his time here pretty much from day one, he just needs to recover.

Frank issues are in his head.


The question is whether any of the replacement PGs you get in this draft are really the solution....

and do you trust Perry & Mills to find that cerebral PG or are they just looking for someone to excite fans via YouTube highlights?

Only time will tell, but sports is entertainment. I think you can find a good pg and one that excites in the same package.


then I guess the Spurs are a dying breed :lol:
Image
Thugger HBC
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 49,679
And1: 18,760
Joined: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Defense+efficient offense=titles...what do you have?
       

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#151 » by Thugger HBC » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:29 pm

Phish Tank wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
The question is whether any of the replacement PGs you get in this draft are really the solution....

and do you trust Perry & Mills to find that cerebral PG or are they just looking for someone to excite fans via YouTube highlights?

Only time will tell, but sports is entertainment. I think you can find a good pg and one that excites in the same package.


then I guess the Spurs are a dying breed :lol:

Tony Parker was far from boring. playing solid basketball doesn't mean you cant be exciting to watch.
R. I. P. Mamba 8/23/78 - 1/26/20

Gone, but will never be forgotten
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 71,855
And1: 69,930
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#152 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:42 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:Only time will tell, but sports is entertainment. I think you can find a good pg and one that excites in the same package.


then I guess the Spurs are a dying breed :lol:

Tony Parker was far from boring. playing solid basketball doesn't mean you cant be exciting to watch.


Tony Parker was very exciting to me. I loved his craftiness which gave me more oh snap did you see that moments than watching a sledgehammer like D.Rose
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 71,855
And1: 69,930
Joined: Jul 12, 2009

Re: Newsday: Knicks working on Frank's confidence 

Post#153 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:44 pm

br7knicks wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
please


Frederic Weiss is the worst draft pick in Knicks history.

Mike Sweetney wasn't a great one either.

Frank is nothing close to the worst pick ever no matter how he turns out


Yeah, that sentence isn't even opinion, it's just straight wrong. It's like saying the sun is cold; it's not opinion, it's just false.

Just in the last 10 years, frank has already had a better career than:

Jaramaz, early antentkonmpoodidjfmgbd, papanakdilpou, Andy rautins.


My pet spelling bee just dropped dead from exhaustion reading that
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 48,099
And1: 11,028
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#154 » by NoLayupRule » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:49 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:Quite simply there is no rush or reason to trade frank
Development takes years. For some players and positions it takes even longer. The pg position is the hardest. And frank is still only 20

He’s not expensive and we don’t have any motivation to move him

Just be calm people. Develop over time like real teams do

I honestly cant think of but a few teams that actually took time and patience with a pg, didn't trade them and let them develop.

MCW immediately came to mind, won ROTY and got traded. Fultz came back in the season...logged virtually zero playoff minutes despite being healthy to play.

I saw people brought up nash but he didn't stick originally with his drafted team.

Then Billups.

Lakers didn't keep D-Lo, drafted another one in his place. I can see the Knicks doing the same with Ja, and it's precisely why they went out the last two years and added Burke and Mudiay.

You either got it or you don't, the pg position isn't one where teams wait and see.


Frank is 20, but Frank is on the clock.
there are only a couple teams who did stick with their rookies PG studs - its true

SA and Den come to mind


But as far as the clock goes for Frank there are only two clocks that matter for him

1} his rookie contract. he has to show value to be resigned or extended
2} if we become a playoff team next year. He has to prove his worth on the team or be moved for someone who can
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 48,099
And1: 11,028
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#155 » by NoLayupRule » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:52 pm

Phish Tank wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
The question is whether any of the replacement PGs you get in this draft are really the solution....

and do you trust Perry & Mills to find that cerebral PG or are they just looking for someone to excite fans via YouTube highlights?

Only time will tell, but sports is entertainment. I think you can find a good pg and one that excites in the same package.


then I guess the Spurs are a dying breed :lol:

Id love a boring PG like Dejounte Murray on our team
User avatar
blueNorange
Knicks Forum Contrarian
Posts: 53,437
And1: 21,151
Joined: Jul 29, 2005
Location: mgmt: caa

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#156 » by blueNorange » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:03 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:Quite simply there is no rush or reason to trade frank
Development takes years. For some players and positions it takes even longer. The pg position is the hardest. And frank is still only 20

He’s not expensive and we don’t have any motivation to move him

Just be calm people. Develop over time like real teams do

I honestly cant think of but a few teams that actually took time and patience with a pg, didn't trade them and let them develop.

MCW immediately came to mind, won ROTY and got traded. Fultz came back in the season...logged virtually zero playoff minutes despite being healthy to play.

I saw people brought up nash but he didn't stick originally with his drafted team.

Then Billups.

Lakers didn't keep D-Lo, drafted another one in his place. I can see the Knicks doing the same with Ja, and it's precisely why they went out the last two years and added Burke and Mudiay.

You either got it or you don't, the pg position isn't one where teams wait and see.


Frank is 20, but Frank is on the clock.

but frank isn't a pg, he's a guy that's capable of running it but he's not a pg.

fizdale sorta had it right in making him the sf but what he did wrong was not having frank run plays as the sf.

nicolas batum/joe ingles should be the blue print for frank.
LOL Y U MAD THO?
Image
mitchell robinson has blocked zion williamson 3 times as of 7/6/19.
User avatar
Phish Tank
RealGM
Posts: 19,762
And1: 12,708
Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Location: Your Timepiece
   

Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#157 » by Phish Tank » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:06 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:Only time will tell, but sports is entertainment. I think you can find a good pg and one that excites in the same package.


then I guess the Spurs are a dying breed :lol:

Tony Parker was far from boring. playing solid basketball doesn't mean you cant be exciting to watch.


Sure but relative to the stephon marburys of the world, tony parker was boring.

People would have rather salivated over this than anything Parker did in his prime:

Image
User avatar
stuporman
RealGM
Posts: 32,028
And1: 21,024
Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Location: optimistic skeptical realist

Re: Newsday: Knicks working on Frank's confidence 

Post#158 » by stuporman » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:09 pm

Weiss over Artest is much worse than Frank over DMitch because the only thing Weiss ever accomplished was being a prop for a Vince Carter dunk and being the answer to two different trivia questions. Who did the Knicks draft instead of Artest and who's the guy Carter jumped over in the Olympics.

I've come to the conclusion that Frank just won't ever have the type of aggressiveness that fan's crave regardless of how 'confident' he is.

There will be three players drafted after him from that year which will have rookie scoring highs likely more than Frank will ever have as a career high..... magic number for Frank to hit is 27 points.... will he ever score that much in one game in his career?
If you'd rather see your team fail so you can be right
...you are a fan of your opinion not the team.
Image?
Knowledge is just information stuffed into a mental bag
Wisdom is knowing what to pull out of the bag to do the job
User avatar
prophet_of_rage
RealGM
Posts: 18,172
And1: 7,394
Joined: Jan 06, 2005

Re: Newsday: Knicks working on Frank's confidence 

Post#159 » by prophet_of_rage » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:18 pm

br7knicks wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
please


Frederic Weiss is the worst draft pick in Knicks history.

Mike Sweetney wasn't a great one either.

Frank is nothing close to the worst pick ever no matter how he turns out


Yeah, that sentence isn't even opinion, it's just straight wrong. It's like saying the sun is cold; it's not opinion, it's just false.

Just in the last 10 years, frank has already had a better career than:

Jaramaz, early antentkonmpoodidjfmgbd, papanakdilpou, Andy rautins.
Those are second round guys. Hisncomp is Weiss at 15, Sweetney at 8 and Kenny Walker at 5 if I recall.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk
Knicks Byke
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,861
And1: 4,896
Joined: Aug 11, 2015
   

Re: Newsday: Knicks working on Frank's confidence 

Post#160 » by Knicks Byke » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:34 pm

PorzinGAWD wrote:Billups would be a great mentor for Frank


**** billups bitch ass

Return to New York Knicks