How do the Hawks get better defensively?

Post #1 » by **Jamaaliver** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:38 pm

Is it just a scheme issue? A matter of players being so young?

Or do we need an influx of defensive talent?

The offense has come a long way, but the defense is abhorrent.

Thoughts on how to fix this long term?

King Ken · Post #2 » by **King Ken** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:17 pm

Personnel.

Prince is a good scoring wing who has a nice shot and on D he is good at generating turnovers but his defense is average at best.

Trae and John both need to be get better on defense by a lot but personnel upgrades around them will help.

Coaching is fine, it's clear when they turn the ball over less. They are better for it as it limits transition baskets.

kg01 · Post #3 » by **kg01** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:24 pm

I think it's a combination of better personnel and better effort.

peoriabird · Post #4 » by **peoriabird** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:45 pm

Nah...Its a matter of learning how to play better team defense and maturing as players. So time together is the answer.

turnermx · Post #5 » by **turnermx** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:47 pm

kg01 wrote:I think it's a combination of better personnel and better effort.

Agreed I would only add experience! Trae and John will both get better with experience. I think they both are already showing more effort, and as they get pieces to complement them as part of a team defensive scheme, it will be awesome to watch. This team will turn it around quickly.

1) There needs to be a defensive wing anchor to complement Trae as a 3 and D player(which we were hoping Prince would become and Baze would be with both disappointing one way or another) and
2) There needs to be a Center versatile enough, with enough size and mobility to both handle interior post D and occasionally cover the perimeter to complement John

kg01 · Post #6 » by **kg01** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:50 pm

turnermx wrote:
kg01 wrote:I think it's a combination of better personnel and better effort.

Agreed I would only add experience! Trae and John will both get better with experience. I think they both are already showing more effort, and as they get pieces to complement them as part of a team defensive scheme, it will be awesome to watch. This team will turn it around quickly.

1) There needs to be a defensive wing anchor to complement Trae as a 3 and D player(which we were hoping Prince would become and Baze would be with both disappointing one way or another) and
2) There needs to be a Center versatile enough, with enough size and mobility to both handle interior post D and occasionally cover the perimeter to complement John

Yeah, there are some pieces we need to add personnel-wise. You laid them out well. I think we could add both via the draft.

turnermx · Post #7 » by **turnermx** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:56 pm

kg01 wrote:
turnermx wrote:
kg01 wrote:I think it's a combination of better personnel and better effort.

Agreed I would only add experience! Trae and John will both get better with experience. I think they both are already showing more effort, and as they get pieces to complement them as part of a team defensive scheme, it will be awesome to watch. This team will turn it around quickly.

1) There needs to be a defensive wing anchor to complement Trae as a 3 and D player(which we were hoping Prince would become and Baze would be with both disappointing one way or another) and
2) There needs to be a Center versatile enough, with enough size and mobility to both handle interior post D and occasionally cover the perimeter to complement John

Yeah, there are some pieces we need to add personnel-wise. You laid them out well. I think we could add both via the draft.

Yep. Basically to sum it up we need better players. We are still in the midst of a rebuild but we are a lot closer than I expected to be at this point simply due to the offense exceeding expectations especially now that the turnover issue appears to be resolving itself. It is exciting because the latter point about reducing turnovers also makes it easier to play D..

peoriabird · Post #8 » by **peoriabird** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:18 pm

turnermx wrote: now that the turnover issue appears to be resolving itself.

This is the main problem with the defense...The live ball turnovers! If the team gets those under control which comes with more familiarity with one another, the Defense will be much better. And of course stop Bembry from creating re-steal situations! 8-)

King Ken · Post #9 » by **King Ken** » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:49 pm

We need potential playmakers are can be 3/D players

graymule · Post #10 » by **graymule** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:36 am

Experience and maturity = improved defense. Hawks are getting there, slowly and surely. And, when they get it,
it will stay with them because they will have earned it,

EazyRoc · Post #11 » by **EazyRoc** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:11 am

It’s personnel all day. Improve the 3 and 5 with great defenders and this time will be more than fine long term defensively. We need two All-Defensive caliber defenders in the lineup.

_s_t_u_r_t_ · Post #12 » by **_s_t_u_r_t_** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:55 am

Actually, the two PGs getting most of the minutes in CLE are worse than Young, but the point remains well taken... Trae is too much a defensive liability for me to think of him as becoming one of the elite NBA PGs for now.

It is striking that you have a new head coach who comes in with a resume' that is all about defense... and yet, this.

Prince vs. last season is down 1.4 in DBPM.

Collins is down 3.5

Baze is down 1.2

Bembry is down 0.4

Dedmon is the lone returning Hawk who has improved... by a whopping 0.1.

Of the new guys getting any significant PT in a Hawks uni, Len is down 1.8... Carter down 1.9.

The good news is, we know all of these guys are capable of better... and maybe the amount of youth on the roster getting significant minutes is on its own pushing down everyone's defensive box score contribution.

The bad news is, we'd like to think but we have no solid clues as to whether Trae will get better... and that sometimes reputations as assistant coaches don't actually emerge as legit.

jayu70 · Post #13 » by **jayu70** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:06 pm

Experience, Effort, Adding talent, reduce turnovers, talk on defense, simetimes the best defense is a great offense.
Practice, Practice, Practice.
In team defense, players have to understand their own assignment as well as their teammates, particularly when we switch a lot.
At times earlier in the year, you would see 2 guys stay with one guy on a switch, they are now talking more so that's happening less and less.
Defensive metrics depends on too many factors so I go by what I see.
Trae was terribad to start the season, no effort at all on defense. The effort is there now.
Prince wasn't playing any defense before he got hurt....he is now. Can still be caught ball watching but he's gotten better.

Like previously, mentioned - Turnovers can kill defensive metrics. Team can't set any defense, so it's an easy score for the other team.
Prince racked up 53 TOs (21 games) before his injury...after the injury he's cut that number by almost half 28 TOs (23 games).

All I'm looking for is for guys to end up better in the 2nd half of the season from where they started the first half.
That's growth.

Spud2nique · Post #14 » by **Spud2nique** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:25 pm

graymule wrote::starwars

Experience and maturity = improved defense. Hawks are getting there, slowly and surely. And, when they get it,
it will stay with them because they will have earned it,

This!

gurpilo · Post #15 » by **gurpilo** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:10 pm

turnermx wrote:
kg01 wrote:I think it's a combination of better personnel and better effort.

Agreed I would only add experience! Trae and John will both get better with experience. I think they both are already showing more effort, and as they get pieces to complement them as part of a team defensive scheme, it will be awesome to watch. This team will turn it around quickly.

1) There needs to be a defensive wing anchor to complement Trae as a 3 and D player(which we were hoping Prince would become and Baze would be with both disappointing one way or another) and
2) There needs to be a Center versatile enough, with enough size and mobility to both handle interior post D and occasionally cover the perimeter to complement John

I agree on the draft Hunter and Bol fill that need. Sekou Doumbouya as well. On FA I don't find defensive specialists at C and SF so I guess our best option is on the draft.

_s_t_u_r_t_ · Post #16 » by **_s_t_u_r_t_** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:50 pm

Well, look guys, the fact that Collins got worse defensively, and that the entire non-rookie roster did except for Dedmon.... that rationally means that either

(a) the 3 draft picks have just imposed that big of a negative impact on defense, or

(b) that our defense-first coach isn't really that savvy of a defensive coach after all.

Which?

I really thought that adding Len would make the overall D better, given what I understood his reputation to be coming in... and especially so, with Dedmon logging the other minutes at 5.

But no, we've regressed by almost anyone's measure.

I want to believe it's more "a" than it is "b". I can't say that with any confidence right now.

observer1995 · Post #17 » by **observer1995** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:16 pm

Collins has problems with defending without fouling. I think he's a rim protector if you can help him fix that as he's not going to be a good defender in space, just adequate.

And he was fine at being a rim protector last year, but it also came with his defense and fouls issue cropping up. This year, there's an easy explanation of what's going on, on two ends. He's not in that role anymore for some reason, and he's choosing to do what he did his second year at Wake Forest and save his fouls instead of trying on defense.

_s_t_u_r_t_ · Post #18 » by **_s_t_u_r_t_** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:34 pm

Even if that explains Collins, it doesn't explain the others. This is a systemic thing, not a one player thing if the numbers are to be believed.

jayu70 · Post #19 » by **jayu70** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:57 pm

Easy explanation: Young, players, new players, new coach, new sysyem to implement and learn. Sometimes we forget that Pierce is alsona rookie learning on the job.

Collins played off the bench last season in limited minutes so trying to compare his defensive metrics equally is misleading.
That team also had Bud who had already established his defense with guys like Baze, Prince etc. - they are now playing with new players and new scheme.
Prince started off the season focused on his offense and his defense suffered.

Are they better now in the 2nd half of the season than they were in the 1st?

_s_t_u_r_t_ · Post #20 » by **_s_t_u_r_t_** » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:43 pm

Collins played 24 min/pg last season. 30 this season.

If the argument is that he's tiring because of all the work, maybe.

But I'd like to think 6 more minutes wouldn't be all that daunting. And besides that, that there would be some natural improvement just because he's not a rookie anymore.

Can't really cut him any slack on those fronts. At least, there shouldn't be any regression all other things being equal.

But again, all other things aren't equal.

And if you're saying "Yeah, probably a lot of both that there's just too much rookie-ness on the court AND on the sideline".... I'm content with that, and/but I share the same question, if anyone wants to take the time to review the stats and answer. Here, it's baseball season, and I'm watching my Nationals on MLB.tv, and just too lazy to go look.

What needs to happen to fix the defense?