Washburn: Coaching Staff Felt Helpless to Solve Locker Room Issues

[SmartWentCrazy]

Tatum and Brown were starters to begin the season. Who would you have started in Gordon's place at the beginning of the year? Rozier? I don't think Mook, Baynes, and Smart aren't the type to be irked if another vet was starting instead of them. Morris was thriving from the start even in his bench role.

The team started 7-2 then 9-6. As a coach, at what point do you say, "this **** ain't working. We need a lineup change?" Hayward was relegated to the second unit on the 17th game.

Baynes. There was no reason to shift off from our lineup from last year.

Everyone keeps talking about Brown and Tatum potentially being be ones held back by Hayward receiving minutes. I 100% doubt Tatum or Brown care whatsoever that Hayward started over Baynes. I doubt anyone cared, and I’m sure it was cool with Baynes. The only one who had any right to be annoyed with Hayward’s return was Morris, and honestly, who cares about Morris.

Brown got yanked early on because he played selfishly. If Hayward went out there and played wrecklessly and selfishly, he would had been yanked too. This thing about Brown having a shorter leash vs Hayward is weird to me. If anything, if I were Brown, I would be annoyed that I had a shorter leash than Tatum, who also plays selfishly quite a lot and is rarely pulled for it despite being younger.

If the young guys were really thrown off by Hayward, they need to grow up. Hayward was a great teammate all year long. Barely anyone in his position would had accepted the bench role as well as he did.

As much as I appreciate Morris’ heart in the most recent series, if Hayward and Stevens were being treated unfairly because the kids couldn’t get out of their own head, Ainge should had traded Morris. That would had solved almost all of this crying about roles and minutes on its own without improperly scapegoating Hayward.

The more I think about it, the root cause of this season does unfortunately fall back on Ainge, and I’m a huge Ainge fan. He has always dismissed chemistry as an important factor of a team’s success (see Perk trade), but the league is changing. Chemistry matters now even if it didn’t in the 80s and 90s. He needs to keep up.

Your missing the externalities and pecking order of it all. Brown lost both minutes and shot attempts to begin the season because Hayward played over Baynes. Tatum was consistently benched for long two’s, but Hayward was rarely punished for playing passive and passing up shots.

Its easy to say young players just need to deal. The harder answer to accept is that Stevens treated Hayward like a dad treated his kid in little league. Hayward is a good person, but he wasnt ready for the role he was given to begin the year after his second surgery 11 months ago.

FWIW, I agree about your critique on Ainge. He knows of the ‘too many players’ theory because Morey believes in it and those two have a similar mindset. When Morris asked to be dealt last summer [per reload], Ainge shouldve acquiesced. He probably shouldve dealt Rozier too, though I get why he didnt. Having too many people that are focused on their future earnings as opposed to winning in the present is a very bad thing, IMO— we fell victim to this last season.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Not if there was someone better on the team.

Hell, we already saw Kerr in this exact situation with David Lee, their multiple time all-star and max-level free agent— he got hurt, a younger player stepped up that was better and Lee returned to the bench. This happens frequently in sports— you play your best players.

Hayward should not have been starting to begin the year. He got to play by a different subset of rules and the other guys on the team were rightfully irked by this.

No one realized how awful Hayward was going to look until a few games into the season. Word before the season was that he looked great in practices.

Baynes can’t be used against all teams. Rozier isn’t a great fit alongside Kyrie. The opening day lineup was exactly the correct lineup that should have been out there. In Hindsight Brad probably should have kept Jaylen in there after Gordon went to the bench, but this was at a time when Jaylen got hurt and Boston went on a run with Smart and everything for dicey after that.

I thought that Smart for JB switch was the best move Stevens did all year. Yes, JB eventually grew up and played his way into decently taking the spot after Smart was hurt, but there is no way he deserved to stay in there after his start to the year.

It was best for Brown long term and he’ll be a much better player for it next season. He learned to play within himself and to his strengths as opposed to trying to do too much.

[DarkAzcura]

Baynes. There was no reason to shift off from our lineup from last year.

Everyone keeps talking about Brown and Tatum potentially being be ones held back by Hayward receiving minutes. I 100% doubt Tatum or Brown care whatsoever that Hayward started over Baynes. I doubt anyone cared, and I’m sure it was cool with Baynes. The only one who had any right to be annoyed with Hayward’s return was Morris, and honestly, who cares about Morris.

Brown got yanked early on because he played selfishly. If Hayward went out there and played wrecklessly and selfishly, he would had been yanked too. This thing about Brown having a shorter leash vs Hayward is weird to me. If anything, if I were Brown, I would be annoyed that I had a shorter leash than Tatum, who also plays selfishly quite a lot and is rarely pulled for it despite being younger.

If the young guys were really thrown off by Hayward, they need to grow up. Hayward was a great teammate all year long. Barely anyone in his position would had accepted the bench role as well as he did.

As much as I appreciate Morris’ heart in the most recent series, if Hayward and Stevens were being treated unfairly because the kids couldn’t get out of their own head, Ainge should had traded Morris. That would had solved almost all of this crying about roles and minutes on its own without improperly scapegoating Hayward.

The more I think about it, the root cause of this season does unfortunately fall back on Ainge, and I’m a huge Ainge fan. He has always dismissed chemistry as an important factor of a team’s success (see Perk trade), but the league is changing. Chemistry matters now even if it didn’t in the 80s and 90s. He needs to keep up.

Your missing the externalities and pecking order of it all. Brown lost both minutes and shot attempts to begin the season because Hayward played over Baynes. Tatum was consistently benched for long two’s, but Hayward was rarely punished for playing passive and passing up shots.

Its easy to say young players just need to deal. The harder answer to accept is that Stevens treated Hayward like a dad treated his kid in little league. Hayward is a good person, but he wasnt ready for the role he was given to begin the year after his second surgery 11 months ago.

FWIW, I agree about your critique on Ainge. He knows of the ‘too many players’ theory because Morey believes in it and those two have a similar mindset. When Morris asked to be dealt last summer [per reload], Ainge shouldve acquiesced. He probably shouldve dealt Rozier too, though I get why he didnt. Having too many people that are focused on their future earnings as opposed to winning in the present is a very bad thing, IMO— we fell victim to this last season.

No I agree with you, it just annoys me that players can be so silly not to see the real issue. That’s why I spoke about the fatal mistake bein not trading Morris and Rozier. This would had increased minutes and shots for Tatum and Brown by necessity and decreased the tension in the locker room without unfairly scapegoating Hayward. It’s a complete misreading of the locker room by the front office, and I think it is because Ainge is too focused on trading for AD that he got a little far sighted to the point where Kyrie might be scared away. I’m no Kyrie fan by any means, but I think the tension in the locker room is what drove him mad, and then he obviously just made it worse with his moodiness after that.

[Gomes3PC]

I actually like the idea of Perk as an assistant. Kyrie has a history with him from the Cavs, and I also think Perk would be a great mentor for Timelord.

[rmal8852]

I actually like the idea of Perk as an assistant. Kyrie has a history with him from the Cavs, and I also think Perk would be a great mentor for Timelord.

How about both Perk and Posey, and then let the ass=kicking begin!!!

They could give little Brad a couple of slaps too.

[Captain_Caveman]

This is what I’ve been saying for the last 3-4 months. This team didn’t like each other and didn’t get along.

On the last West coach trip I go confirmation that the players were still not getting along. I started a thread about how my friend was in the room with 2 Celtic players and one was pissed at all the Celtic players didn’t show up to an event thrown by one Celtic player.

It’s wasn’t at a club. I still can’t say who the player was that threw the event nor name the Celtic player (only player that showed up other than the one that threw “the event”) was going off on his teammates for not showing up.

There was a lot of friction there. I said to fans here, don’t believe the plane trip about how everything was squashed. But I got **** for it from a lot of people here. Some said I wanted attention. Like seriously. **** attention. I was sharing first hand info and people didn’t believe me or brushed it off.

Fans here said chemistry didn’t matter. They said not liking each other on a team didn’t matter. They were saying wait until the playoffs, talking like Kyrie.

I knew too much too believe in this team. I even skipped watching a playoff game, which I hadn’t done in like 20 years.

I’m glad these reports are coming out again. Everyone knew there were chemistry issues all season but a lot of fans here ignored those signs or believed it didn’t matter.

There was a reason why the team was the most disappointing team this year. There was a reason some fans, including myself were turned off by this team. The team didn’t get a **** about winning or getting along. Why should we? They are the ones getting paid, win or lose.

That's not why you got a hard time for that. People were meh about you starting a thread and making a major announcement about insider gossip that you then didn't even elaborate on.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I actually like the idea of Perk as an assistant. Kyrie has a history with him from the Cavs, and I also think Perk would be a great mentor for Timelord.

Problem is that:

a) Perk recently publicly crushed Kyrie
b) Kyrie is gone regardless

[Edug27]

No one realized how awful Hayward was going to look until a few games into the season. Word before the season was that he looked great in practices.

Baynes can’t be used against all teams. Rozier isn’t a great fit alongside Kyrie. The opening day lineup was exactly the correct lineup that should have been out there. In Hindsight Brad probably should have kept Jaylen in there after Gordon went to the bench, but this was at a time when Jaylen got hurt and Boston went on a run with Smart and everything for dicey after that.

I thought that Smart for JB switch was the best move Stevens did all year. Yes, JB eventually grew up and played his way into decently taking the spot after Smart was hurt, but there is no way he deserved to stay in there after his start to the year.

It was best for Brown long term and he’ll be a much better player for it next season. He learned to play within himself and to his strengths as opposed to trying to do too much.

I still think he tries to do too much. I don’t think much has changed in his game from the start of the season, other than the fact that his shot is actually falling now.

[Parasite]

Anyone wondering why Jaylen got pulled from the starting lineup after 20 games has some pretty selective memory. He was flailing. Team improved instantly and it gave him space to get his head together and eventually rally a bit. While underutilized like the rest, Tatum was also not displaced from in terms of minutes, touches, or starts from Hayward.

It's idiot season. A bunch of people who don't know the game well enough to understand that we ran into a better team get to say what they want.

You think the only issue is that we ran into a better team? That’s real interesting. So are you saying this team played to it’s potential then? You were expecting a 4 seed in the east eh? Do tell.

[Captain_Caveman]

Anyone wondering why Jaylen got pulled from the starting lineup after 20 games has some pretty selective memory. He was flailing. Team improved instantly and it gave him space to get his head together and eventually rally a bit. While underutilized like the rest, Tatum was also not displaced from in terms of minutes, touches, or starts from Hayward.

It's idiot season. A bunch of people who don't know the game well enough to understand that we ran into a better team get to say what they want.

You think the only issue is that we ran into a better team? That’s real interesting. So are you saying this team played to it’s potential then? You were expecting a 4 seed in the east eh? Do tell.

This team was never winning a title, but would still be playing had we drawn Philly, or any of the four teams we played to get to the ECFs in the two seasons prior. I don't feel let down or cheated just because they only took the winningest team this year to five games instead of seven.

If anything, the "issue" is not having a top 10 player. The front office knows this, too.

[return2glory]

Brad lost control of this team and never got it back . Nice guy Mr Indiana only goes so far . He should have benched Kyrie after game 3

I agree. But he shouldn’t. That would not have gone over well with Danny, the owners or Kyrie’s fragile ego. They had to kiss his ass all season so they wouldn’t lose him. But I’m hoping they saw enough by season’s end not to want him back.

At this point it would take a miracle for Ainge to do a sign & trade with Kyrie. I’m hoping that’s what happens.

[MagicBagley18]

This is what I’ve been saying for the last 3-4 months. This team didn’t like each other and didn’t get along.

On the last West coach trip I go confirmation that the players were still not getting along. I started a thread about how my friend was in the room with 2 Celtic players and one was pissed at all the Celtic players didn’t show up to an event thrown by one Celtic player.

It’s wasn’t at a club. I still can’t say who the player was that threw the event nor name the Celtic player (only player that showed up other than the one that threw “the event”) was going off on his teammates for not showing up.

There was a lot of friction there. I said to fans here, don’t believe the plane trip about how everything was squashed. But I got **** for it from a lot of people here. Some said I wanted attention. Like seriously. **** attention. I was sharing first hand info and people didn’t believe me or brushed it off.

Fans here said chemistry didn’t matter. They said not liking each other on a team didn’t matter. They were saying wait until the playoffs, talking like Kyrie.

I knew too much too believe in this team. I even skipped watching a playoff game, which I hadn’t done in like 20 years.

I’m glad these reports are coming out again. Everyone knew there were chemistry issues all season but a lot of fans here ignored those signs or believed it didn’t matter.

There was a reason why the team was the most disappointing team this year. There was a reason some fans, including myself were turned off by this team. The team didn’t get a **** about winning or getting along. Why should we? They are the ones getting paid, win or lose.

That's not why you got a hard time for that. People were meh about you starting a thread and making a major announcement about insider gossip that you then didn't even elaborate on.

And the news was “ team has chemistry issues and still doesn’t get along” anyone with half a brain saw that since thanksgiving

[cloverleaf]

No one realized how awful Hayward was going to look until a few games into the season. Word before the season was that he looked great in practices.

Baynes can’t be used against all teams. Rozier isn’t a great fit alongside Kyrie. The opening day lineup was exactly the correct lineup that should have been out there. In Hindsight Brad probably should have kept Jaylen in there after Gordon went to the bench, but this was at a time when Jaylen got hurt and Boston went on a run with Smart and everything for dicey after that.

I thought that Smart for JB switch was the best move Stevens did all year. Yes, JB eventually grew up and played his way into decently taking the spot after Smart was hurt, but there is no way he deserved to stay in there after his start to the year.

It was best for Brown long term and he’ll be a much better player for it next season. He learned to play within himself and to his strengths as opposed to trying to do too much.

Absolutely, I totally applaud how he ultimately responded. Better than JT or TR IMO BTW.

[cloverleaf]

This is what I’ve been saying for the last 3-4 months. This team didn’t like each other and didn’t get along.

On the last West coach trip I go confirmation that the players were still not getting along. I started a thread about how my friend was in the room with 2 Celtic players and one was pissed at all the Celtic players didn’t show up to an event thrown by one Celtic player.

It’s wasn’t at a club. I still can’t say who the player was that threw the event nor name the Celtic player (only player that showed up other than the one that threw “the event”) was going off on his teammates for not showing up.

There was a lot of friction there. I said to fans here, don’t believe the plane trip about how everything was squashed. But I got **** for it from a lot of people here. Some said I wanted attention. Like seriously. **** attention. I was sharing first hand info and people didn’t believe me or brushed it off.

Fans here said chemistry didn’t matter. They said not liking each other on a team didn’t matter. They were saying wait until the playoffs, talking like Kyrie.

I knew too much too believe in this team. I even skipped watching a playoff game, which I hadn’t done in like 20 years.

I’m glad these reports are coming out again. Everyone knew there were chemistry issues all season but a lot of fans here ignored those signs or believed it didn’t matter.

There was a reason why the team was the most disappointing team this year. There was a reason some fans, including myself were turned off by this team. The team didn’t get a **** about winning or getting along. Why should we? They are the ones getting paid, win or lose.

That's not why you got a hard time for that. People were meh about you starting a thread and making a major announcement about insider gossip that you then didn't even elaborate on.

And the news was “ team has chemistry issues and still doesn’t get along” anyone with half a brain saw that since thanksgiving

Then and now, the pair sounded to me like JB throwing the event and TR showing up.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Was true all season, partly because of the confusion around what to do with Hayward's recovery, partly because Brown and Tatum wanted bigger roles, partly because there were too many good and similar players for the shots we had to go around, partly because the whole team never gelled into unselfishness, all made worse by Kyrie's midseason free agency drama, which to be fair was him protecting himself as a player by showing respect to teams who might bid on him in free agency. The fact he had promised publicly to return in October made it worse.

The roster isn't Stevens' fault - he's a good coach and has been until now a good manager of his players, a steady hand in leading them through ups and downs. I didn't get the sense anyone on the team was particularly angry at Brad. But being a patient coach who gives gentle reminders and messages about work and improvement can be a shortcoming when there are times to bring the hammer down. I'm not sure if Brad is reluctant to do that because he thinks it's ineffective, or if he's afraid he can't pull it off, or doesn't have credibility with young and star players.

No idea where this story is coming from, either - it could be sourced from a player, an agent, people around the team, the front office.. I wouldn't put it past Kyrie to angle for a coaching change as a term of his return.

Getting sick of this drama, though - someone needs to put the players' problems in perspective - hope it all works out, Brad stays, players mature, Irving re-ups with a new dedication to his psychological strength and leadership.

This is also all making drama to explain a very foreseeable loss to Milwaukee. It was obvious to me in our early-season loss to Toronto we probably wouldn't be ready this year. It doesn't change the long-term trajectory of the team.

[cloverleaf]

Was true all season, partly because of the confusion around what to do with Hayward's recovery, partly because Brown and Tatum wanted bigger roles, partly because there were too many good and similar players for the shots we had to go around, partly because the whole team never gelled into unselfishness, all made worse by Kyrie's midseason free agency drama, which to be fair was him protecting himself as a player by showing respect to teams who might bid on him in free agency. The fact he had promised publicly to return in October made it worse.

The roster isn't Stevens' fault - he's a good coach and has been until now a good manager of his players, a steady hand in leading them through ups and downs. I didn't get the sense anyone on the team was particularly angry at Brad. But being a patient coach who gives gentle reminders and messages about work and improvement can be a shortcoming when there are times to bring the hammer down. I'm not sure if Brad is reluctant to do that because he thinks it's ineffective, or if he's afraid he can't pull it off, or doesn't have credibility with young and star players.

No idea where this story is coming from, either - it could be sourced from a player, an agent, people around the team, the front office.. I wouldn't put it past Kyrie to angle for a coaching change as a term of his return.

Getting sick of this drama, though - someone needs to put the players' problems in perspective - hope it all works out, Brad stays, players mature, Irving re-ups with a new dedication to his psychological strength and leadership.

This is also all making drama to explain a very foreseeable loss to Milwaukee. It was obvious to me in our early-season loss to Toronto we probably wouldn't be ready this year. It doesn't change the long-term trajectory of the team.

Kyrie took veiled shots at Brad all year, and TR could only muster that Brad had a tough job to do -- he had no words of respect or appreciation for Brad or Danny after the bad end to the season, with a terse "no comment" speaking volumes. Plus, there clearly were player gripes about his starting rotation, time for Hayward, etc., leaking to the media through the year.

[GoGreen]

I just want to know why Danny decided not to trade anyone??

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

I just want to know why Danny decided not to trade anyone??

He was looking at the big picture knowing that AD could be available.


Probably should have traded Rozier but it's a good thing they didn't because they need him for next season.

[canman1971]

I just want to know why Danny decided not to trade anyone??

He was looking at the big picture knowing that AD could be available.


Probably should have traded Rozier but it's a good thing they didn't because they need him for next season.

Well, come on. Why would you trade a top PG in the NBA? And this is no critique towards you, but rather Terry.

[cloverleaf]

I just want to know why Danny decided not to trade anyone??

He was looking at the big picture knowing that AD could be available.


Probably should have traded Rozier but it's a good thing they didn't because they need him for next season.

Well, come on. Why would you trade a top PG in the NBA? And this is no critique towards you, but rather Terry.

I'll be very surprised if Mr. Rozier is back.