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Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant

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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#741 » by Cafu » Mon May 13, 2019 4:25 am

tlifeset wrote:
myersia wrote:
Slava wrote:https://www.theringer.com/2019/5/12/18616750/frank-vogel-los-angeles-lakers-head-coach


He’s our dude. Great article


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app


Refreshing to read an article that doesnt have jason kidd in the first paragraph and is actually about frank vogel. Incredible that a national publication can produce this quality angle but not one local lakers source can do anything other than cry about the process, and spew homespun bs from an endless supply of lies and page view tactics.

They can call the lakers fo embarrassing but nothing is more embarrassing than our media coverage. Period.


Imagine Kobe and Shaq fued in today twitter era lol
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#742 » by DS17 » Mon May 13, 2019 4:43 am

PockyCandy wrote:
Landsberger wrote:The base seems upset that we've looked at older more established coaches. I get the whole "new game" stuff but I also thing it's so overblown it's not funny as well.

A good coach sets up a system to benefit his players rather than bend his players to a system. We hired a retired coach way back in the late 90's who ran a system developed decades earlier and in no way was "modern" and we did OK. Vogel seems to be a pretty good upgrade to Luke and the hate for Kidd seems really misplaced to me. He's seems perfect for an assistant job. A hell of a lot better than Madsen for example.


I haven't read through all 40 pages of this thread, but it seems like most Lakers fans are OK with hiring Vogel. Seems to know how to run a defense and has a decent track record of success.

But Kidd on the other hand......yikes. The off the court stuff is troubling, as well as literally every Bucks fan on this site telling us how Kidd is a terrible person who will ruin the locker room. And it's not like upgrading from Mark Madsen is difficult.

I mean c'mon, they're the Lakers. They should have enough money to hire the best assistant coaches in the industry.

According to that matias laywer dude on twiter, lakers arent that rich. Unlike steve balmer owning the clippers... the lakers have like 10 people owning them. the bus family divide the wealth into 6 segments themselves for example!
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#743 » by Landsberger » Mon May 13, 2019 2:14 pm

DS17 wrote:
PockyCandy wrote:
Landsberger wrote:The base seems upset that we've looked at older more established coaches. I get the whole "new game" stuff but I also thing it's so overblown it's not funny as well.

A good coach sets up a system to benefit his players rather than bend his players to a system. We hired a retired coach way back in the late 90's who ran a system developed decades earlier and in no way was "modern" and we did OK. Vogel seems to be a pretty good upgrade to Luke and the hate for Kidd seems really misplaced to me. He's seems perfect for an assistant job. A hell of a lot better than Madsen for example.


I haven't read through all 40 pages of this thread, but it seems like most Lakers fans are OK with hiring Vogel. Seems to know how to run a defense and has a decent track record of success.

But Kidd on the other hand......yikes. The off the court stuff is troubling, as well as literally every Bucks fan on this site telling us how Kidd is a terrible person who will ruin the locker room. And it's not like upgrading from Mark Madsen is difficult.

I mean c'mon, they're the Lakers. They should have enough money to hire the best assistant coaches in the industry.

According to that matias laywer dude on twiter, lakers arent that rich. Unlike steve balmer owning the clippers... the lakers have like 10 people owning them. the bus family divide the wealth into 6 segments themselves for example!


The Buss family's primary wealth IS the Lakers..... unlike most if not all of the other owners. So money spent by the Lakers is money they don't have. All of the other owners were massively wealthy before they bought a team. They make more away from the NBA while the Buss family subsists off of the team.
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#744 » by tamaraw08 » Mon May 13, 2019 3:16 pm

myersia wrote:
Slava wrote:https://www.theringer.com/2019/5/12/18616750/frank-vogel-los-angeles-lakers-head-coach


He’s our dude. Great article


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

thanks for link, it's informative and not enough explanation for me on how he failed to show any kind of improvement esp on defense.
Perhaps the biggest mistake Vogel made was not waiting after being let go by the Pacers. Vogel jumped straight to Orlando for the 2016-17 season, when their master plan was to acquire two centers (Serge Ibaka and Bismack Biyombo) to their already jam-packed frontcourt. Vogel understood at the time of his hire that the NBA was changing and he’d have to adapt. He held true to the time-honored new coach tradition of saying his team would play fast, as the Magic finished in the top-10 in percentage of fast-break points in both of his two seasons there. Orlando was still predictably bad anyway, as there’s really only so much you can do when you’re drawing up your best stuff for Jonathon Simmons instead of Paul George. You could tell the losing started to wear Vogel down, as he went through a very Obama-in-office aging process. In his last season in Orlando, Vogel had to start 16 different players, and four of those players were out of the league altogether by this season.

Vogel shouldn’t get a free pass for what happened in Orlando. There are legitimate concerns with whether or not he can build a modern offense that is less predicated on sets with multiple screens away from the ball and more focused on creating and maintaining spacing. With Kidd shoehorned in as his top assistant—the Littlefinger to Vogel’s Ned Stark, let’s say—it’s far from a sure thing that Vogel’s staff properly leverages LeBron’s passing ability. If you subscribe to the idea that spacing is offense and offense is spacing—which certainly seems true in Milwaukee in the wake of Kidd’s departure—Vogel is going to need some real shooters in order to make some of his five-out sets shine, especially as LeBron’s patience for anyone else’s ideas seem to grow shorter by the day.

so Ok I get it the roster were not talented enough to win a lot of games, and yes I want to add that the core of Vucevic, Gordon, Fournier etc ,the year he was fired, missed about 24 games each. But this might be partly bec they were tanking at the end of the season.
But still, Vogel could have gathered his players to play hard and execute the great defensive schemes he created that will show in stats like DRTG. Before Frank under Skiles, they ranked 16th, first year with him, 22nd. The next year, 18th on defense rating. After he left, they IMPROVED to 8th BEST UNDER Steve Clifford. :o It would been so easy to excuse him if he coached a bunch of 19 yr olds his first year at Orlando, but except of Gordon who was 21, Fournier was 24, Vucevic was 26, Augustin was 29, these guys are still playing there with improved DRTG, plus Ibaka, 27, Biyombo, 27, Payton, 22.
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#745 » by Rosque » Mon May 13, 2019 4:35 pm

Are we really going to act like Gordon, Fournier, Vučević, DJ Augustin were good defenders back then? Vučević was a sieve on defense and Biyombo is solid rim protector but should be sent to 2004 since he cannot switch and has stone hands. That 2017 ORL team is just abysmal.
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#746 » by tamaraw08 » Mon May 13, 2019 5:01 pm

Rosque wrote:Are we really going to act like Gordon, Fournier, Vučević, DJ Augustin were good defenders back then? Vučević was a sieve on defense and Biyombo is solid rim protector but should be sent to 2004 since he cannot switch and has stone hands. That 2017 ORL team is just abysmal.

So please tell me what changed then? Ranked 16th with Skiles then From 18th with Frank to 8th in DRTG without him? I really want to know the reason.
I’m not bashing the guy and also I was impressed what he did in Indiana but I can’t help to wonder if it’s more about the players and McMillan whom btw have been doing great with Vogel’s former team.
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Re: Lakers and Lue end contract talks, now considering Vogel, L. Hollins, Mike Woodson, Juwan, Kidd 

Post#747 » by gts1 » Mon May 13, 2019 10:11 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:
gts1 wrote:I think there is more to the story, it'll probably leak out that they whole 3 years vs 5 years deal was not the only hurdle or it was never the hurdle Lues' people made it out to be, that leak feels like a whole lot of face saving from the Lue camp. Lakers may not have ever been sold on Lue in the first place so unless it was on their terms it was never gonna happen... To me it was a good offer, Lue was only interviewing because of Lebron, the Lakers were only talking to him because of Lebron and Lebron is only here for three more years

I actually see this as one of the first positive decisions to come out of the FO in weeks


I respect you from way way back from another site. So I am going to ask you to please explain specifically your REASONS why this is a positive decision the FO made. :o



Hey there... easy. I think Lue is a so so coach at best, the only reason he has a title next to his name because the Warriors were beat up and Dramond went full airhead and was suspended, Bogut went down in the same game with a season ending knee injury.. Curry fouled out in Game 6 in Cleveland, Barnes was a no show for the series...The title was basically gift wrapped for the Cavs, it wasn't like Lue pulled a rabbit out of his hat and coached the team back into the series against a full Warriors squad.. take that away and what did he do? reached the finals on the back of Lebron James multiple times in a conference that was never a challenge for them... add in his last season he was struggling with the pressures of coaching and had to take time off.

It would not shock me if he never coached a game again.. not sure anybody will give him the chance.. 3 years was a fair offer if he wanted to get back into coaching... good decision not to go further.
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#748 » by LAKESHOW » Mon May 13, 2019 11:54 pm

Its simple, Lue was made an offer to coach again. And did not take it. Despite coaching staff. Despite years. Etc. His ego thought he deserved more, and wanted a more perfect situation for himself
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#749 » by Danny Darko » Tue May 14, 2019 6:04 am

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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#750 » by Kilroy » Tue May 14, 2019 6:30 am

Yeah, on Vogle, I find myself starting to go from mediocre to medio-core...

:rock:

Ok, maybe I'm not quite there yet...
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#751 » by Laker_Kid » Tue May 14, 2019 11:40 am

every candidate wouldve been criticized til kingdom come, unless it was Pop, and other than him i cant really think of anybody else.

so I think Vogel is a safe get.I feel like i like him over Lue. just my opinion.
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#752 » by kobe808lak » Tue May 14, 2019 12:59 pm

I'm just glad we had smart basketball people making the decision on these hires.....
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Re: Lakers and Lue end contract talks, now considering Vogel, L. Hollins, Mike Woodson, Juwan, Kidd 

Post#753 » by tamaraw08 » Tue May 14, 2019 3:01 pm

gts1 wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
gts1 wrote:I think there is more to the story, it'll probably leak out that they whole 3 years vs 5 years deal was not the only hurdle or it was never the hurdle Lues' people made it out to be, that leak feels like a whole lot of face saving from the Lue camp. Lakers may not have ever been sold on Lue in the first place so unless it was on their terms it was never gonna happen... To me it was a good offer, Lue was only interviewing because of Lebron, the Lakers were only talking to him because of Lebron and Lebron is only here for three more years

I actually see this as one of the first positive decisions to come out of the FO in weeks


I respect you from way way back from another site. So I am going to ask you to please explain specifically your REASONS why this is a positive decision the FO made. :o



Hey there... easy. I think Lue is a so so coach at best, the only reason he has a title next to his name because the Warriors were beat up and Dramond went full airhead and was suspended, Bogut went down in the same game with a season ending knee injury.. Curry fouled out in Game 6 in Cleveland, Barnes was a no show for the series...The title was basically gift wrapped for the Cavs, it wasn't like Lue pulled a rabbit out of his hat and coached the team back into the series against a full Warriors squad.. take that away and what did he do? reached the finals on the back of Lebron James multiple times in a conference that was never a challenge for them... add in his last season he was struggling with the pressures of coaching and had to take time off.

It would not shock me if he never coached a game again.. not sure anybody will give him the chance.. 3 years was a fair offer if he wanted to get back into coaching... good decision not to go further.

Hey, wow, took you some time to reply,you must be a busy man, thank you for explaining your position about Lue. You probably should have added how Lebron and Kyrie balled out of their minds that series they best GSW. :D
But for me it's not just about that particular series. Cavs should have CRUMBLED when they traded Kyrie for an injured Thomas, but they didn't. Yes, being in the very weak East made it a lot easier to beat up very bad teams 3-4 times that year but still, his team shouldn't be the 5th best in ORTG when you lose Kyrie for nothing. And It's not like they went butchered the East and lost 90% of their games vs the West, I mean they beat teams like Portland, Jazz, Clips etc. But let's move on. So I understand you must be very busy but would you care to reveal who was your preference to coach the Lakers? Are you happy with Vogel, would you rather have Kidd or anybody else and can you elaborate why? thanks again.
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Re: Lakers and Lue end contract talks, now considering Vogel, L. Hollins, Mike Woodson, Juwan, Kidd 

Post#754 » by gts1 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:35 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:
gts1 wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
I respect you from way way back from another site. So I am going to ask you to please explain specifically your REASONS why this is a positive decision the FO made. :o



Hey there... easy. I think Lue is a so so coach at best, the only reason he has a title next to his name because the Warriors were beat up and Dramond went full airhead and was suspended, Bogut went down in the same game with a season ending knee injury.. Curry fouled out in Game 6 in Cleveland, Barnes was a no show for the series...The title was basically gift wrapped for the Cavs, it wasn't like Lue pulled a rabbit out of his hat and coached the team back into the series against a full Warriors squad.. take that away and what did he do? reached the finals on the back of Lebron James multiple times in a conference that was never a challenge for them... add in his last season he was struggling with the pressures of coaching and had to take time off.

It would not shock me if he never coached a game again.. not sure anybody will give him the chance.. 3 years was a fair offer if he wanted to get back into coaching... good decision not to go further.

Hey, wow, took you some time to reply,you must be a busy man, thank you for explaining your position about Lue. You probably should have added how Lebron and Kyrie balled out of their minds that series they best GSW. :D
But for me it's not just about that particular series. Cavs should have CRUMBLED when they traded Kyrie for an injured Thomas, but they didn't. Yes, being in the very weak East made it a lot easier to beat up very bad teams 3-4 times that year but still, his team shouldn't be the 5th best in ORTG when you lose Kyrie for nothing. And It's not like they went butchered the East and lost 90% of their games vs the West, I mean they beat teams like Portland, Jazz, Clips etc. But let's move on. So I understand you must be very busy but would you care to reveal who was your preference to coach the Lakers? Are you happy with Vogel, would you rather have Kidd or anybody else and can you elaborate why? thanks again.


yeah crazy busy this time of year... always am early in the season then everybody's money dries up and i'm free to screw around...lol

Vogel is fine, he' done some good things and from what I have heard his players like him. not a Kidd fan but that's okay he does know the game and if that can fill in some gaps all the better. To me it's clear both 3 year hires are meant to get us through the Lebron years then they'll look at it all once that's done.

It's a gut feeling but I think Lebron was a Magic hire and not one that's popular throughout the front office or something has played out behind the scenes that changes how they look at Lebron and his people. Maybe there's more to the AD trade stuff or maybe it's something else but for some reason I just get the feeling the Lakers are not going out of their way to bend over backwards for Lebron and his camp.
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#756 » by LAKESHOW » Fri May 24, 2019 6:24 am

KidA24 wrote:Hey all. Bucks fan here.

Let me give you my super brief JKidd rundown.

He's a terrible coach. He didn't develop young players at all - See MCW, Thon, Rashard Vaughn, Jabari.

He favored playing guys who offered no reasonable skill beyond looking like they tried hard or that were his friends (or friends kids) such as GP3, DeAndre Liggins and Miles Plumlee, and 54 year old Jason Terry.

He also ran an offense that regularly featured initiating it at the elbow through John Henson.

Yes. That elite playmaker, John Henson. Over Middleton, Brogdon or a Giannis.

I have no doubt he'll cause dysfunction in your locker room or on the coaching staff, he avoids blame, and forces it upon everyone else publicly to make himself look good (the opposite of what a good leader does).

Good luck with him.

Ahahaha. The bucks may win. But they are choking hard right now. And let me give you a hint son, it aint giannis or JKidd. Those offensive sets and schemes absolutely suck. Yes thats right, IF THEY BLOW THIS SERIES, ITS ALL ON YOUR MAN....BUDENHOLZER. Who is flat out getting out coached. Your series shouldve been over in 5. But his mismanagement of personnel is glaring. Hey, nice subbing out of giannis with 30 seconds left in the game...LOL
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#757 » by KidA24 » Fri May 24, 2019 6:26 am

LAKESHOW wrote:
KidA24 wrote:Hey all. Bucks fan here.

Let me give you my super brief JKidd rundown.

He's a terrible coach. He didn't develop young players at all - See MCW, Thon, Rashard Vaughn, Jabari.

He favored playing guys who offered no reasonable skill beyond looking like they tried hard or that were his friends (or friends kids) such as GP3, DeAndre Liggins and Miles Plumlee, and 54 year old Jason Terry.

He also ran an offense that regularly featured initiating it at the elbow through John Henson.

Yes. That elite playmaker, John Henson. Over Middleton, Brogdon or a Giannis.

I have no doubt he'll cause dysfunction in your locker room or on the coaching staff, he avoids blame, and forces it upon everyone else publicly to make himself look good (the opposite of what a good leader does).

Good luck with him.

Ahahaha. The bucks may win. But they are choking hard right now. And let me give you a hint son, it aint giannis or JKidd. Those offensive sets and schemes absolutely suck. Yes thats right, IF THEY BLOW THIS SERIES, ITS ALL ON YOUR MAN....BUDENHOLZER. Who is flat out getting out coached. Your series shouldve been over in 5. But his mismanagement of personnel is glaring. Hey, nice subbing out of giannis with 30 seconds left in the game...LOL


I mean, congrats on quoting my two week old post?
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#758 » by stan francisco » Sat May 25, 2019 2:42 am

kobe808lak wrote:I'm just glad we had smart basketball people making the decision on these hires.....


Both Brian Shaw and Curt Rambis should know him well enough to judge if Vogel’s gut and psyche are built to hold the King accountable on a daily basis. That’s gotta be what it came down to, IMO.
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#759 » by ScHoolBoy B » Sun May 26, 2019 5:56 am

I mean ever since Lue declined the Lakers' offer, I don't see any other teams with coaching vacancies lining up for his services. That should really tell you how much value Lue has around the league.
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Re: Confirmed: Frank Vogel has agreed to deal to become new head coach, Kidd will be assistant 

Post#760 » by Pythagoras » Sun May 26, 2019 9:58 pm

ScHoolBoy B wrote:I mean ever since Lue declined the Lakers' offer, I don't see any other teams with coaching vacancies lining up for his services. That should really tell you how much value Lue has around the league.


Is it that really surprising? I thought he was nuts to turn down this job, and I said its going to be a minute if before he even sniffs another HC job, let alone land one.

Meanwhile I'm at least liking the things I'm hearing from Vogel early on. Time will tell how good he can actually be here.
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