Trade for Westbrook?

[Kilo]

JE3 responded to a tweet of mine. Clarification regarding Snell.

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Can be traded by himself I believe, not part of a package. But also he was traded "last season" - so that might impact the ability to trade him sooner if they can.

If we trade him though - we have dick all at SF.

As it is we'll need to go dumpster diving for vet minimum depth if we do a 3-4 for one deal. We're also hard capped because we used the non-tax payer MLE to sign Rose. We either can't go over the tax or just the tax apron, the former would be a killer, the latter gives us some breathing room.

How does it help if he can only be traded by himself? Foesnt that make the proposed deal impossible?

It doesn't. But I'm not clear if Edwards was just correcting that Snell COULD be traded now vs could be traded in the example deal. Traded players can't be flipped in a package for x-number of days, the Dec 15th date restriction is for free agents signed during the off-season.

[Phenomenonsense]

As long as Sekou is here I'll be fine with a trade. Would prefer Kennard stay too, but who knows. I don't think we're doing much in the theoretical championship age while the current teams exist so might as well max out and then go into full rebuild imo

[haulerch]

I think people are overestimating what we would have to give up to get Russ.

[Canadafan]

Here is sort of where I stand. If a trade ends up being:

1 1st + expiring contracts....i'll be sort of meh about it

2 1sts + expiring contracts....i'll be very skeptical but wouldn't completely lose it

Anything more like adding Kennard/ Sekou /additonal 1sts....I'd want Ed and front office team to be fired for completely screwing us over

My exact thoughts

[He Filled it Up]

I think people are overestimating what we would have to give up to get Russ.

There's a difference between what we would have to give up and what we'll actually give up.

[coordinator0]

The indications we have are that OKC is working with Westbrook's camp.

It's entirely possible we called and Russ doesn't want to come here. The Thunder do have the power to deal him anywhere they want (he does NOT have a no trade clause), but if they're working with him they presumably are making an effort not to do that.

Does anyone know if he has a trade kicker? A 15% trade kicker would really make a huge (and negative) difference for anyone dealing for him.

Yes he does. 15%.

[foolinc]

I think people are overestimating what we would have to give up to get Russ.

The issue here is that the Pistons aren't trying to trade for Westbrook, they are in a bidding war with other teams. Multiple teams are going to drive up the asking price.

That's the issue for me. I'd be up for taking on the risks that Westbrook brings. However, I really don't want the Pistons to have a "winning bid" for him.

[Snakebites]

The indications we have are that OKC is working with Westbrook's camp.

It's entirely possible we called and Russ doesn't want to come here. The Thunder do have the power to deal him anywhere they want (he does NOT have a no trade clause), but if they're working with him they presumably are making an effort not to do that.

Does anyone know if he has a trade kicker? A 15% trade kicker would really make a huge (and negative) difference for anyone dealing for him.

Yes he does. 15%.

Then ask yourself: why would he waive it to come to Detroit? He wants out of OKC because they weren’t contenders, even with PG.

Yeah, I know the east makes it easier to reach the finals, but let’s be real here. We all know we’re not contenders with Russ. The fit is iffy and the depth will be worse than it is now.

Not saying it’s impossible, but my guess is he quietly has a list of places he’d like to go and we aren’t on it, at least not at this time.

[Neptune]

One of Kennard or Doumbouya will be traded for Westbrook.

[thesack12]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/08/nba-players-with-trade-kickers-in-201819.html

According to the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement, a trade bonus must be paid by the team that trades the player, rather than the team acquiring him. The new CBA also allows a player to waive his trade kicker as part of a deal, if he so chooses.

Steven Adams, Thunder (7.5%)
LaMarcus Aldridge, Spurs (15%)
Kyle Anderson, Grizzlies (15%)
Harrison Barnes, Mavericks (8%): Traded
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Lakers (15%)
Anthony Davis, Pelicans (15%)
Andre Drummond, Pistons (8%)
Kevin Durant, Warriors (15%)
Marc Gasol, Grizzlies (15%): Traded
Tim Hardaway Jr., Knicks (15%): Traded
James Harden, Rockets (15%)
Al Horford, Celtics (15%)
Tyler Johnson, Heat (15%): Traded
Kelly Olynyk, Heat (lesser of 5% or $2MM)
J.J. Redick, Sixers (7.5%)
Milos Teodosic, Clippers (15%)
John Wall, Wizards (15%)

The following players have trade bonuses on their contracts, but those bonuses would be voided if they were to be traded during the 2018/19 league year, since they’re already earning this season’s maximum salary:

Stephen Curry, Warriors (15%)
Paul George, Thunder (15%)
Gordon Hayward, Celtics (15%)
LeBron James, Lakers (15%)
Otto Porter, Wizards (15%): Traded
Russell Westbrook, Thunder (15%

Don't know how accurate this site is, but according to them Russ trade kicker won't be triggeres. Even if it does, apparently OKC would have pay it.

[Snakebites]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/08/nba-players-with-trade-kickers-in-201819.html

According to the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement, a trade bonus must be paid by the team that trades the player, rather than the team acquiring him. The new CBA also allows a player to waive his trade kicker as part of a deal, if he so chooses.

Steven Adams, Thunder (7.5%)
LaMarcus Aldridge, Spurs (15%)
Kyle Anderson, Grizzlies (15%)
Harrison Barnes, Mavericks (8%): Traded
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Lakers (15%)
Anthony Davis, Pelicans (15%)
Andre Drummond, Pistons (8%)
Kevin Durant, Warriors (15%)
Marc Gasol, Grizzlies (15%): Traded
Tim Hardaway Jr., Knicks (15%): Traded
James Harden, Rockets (15%)
Al Horford, Celtics (15%)
Tyler Johnson, Heat (15%): Traded
Kelly Olynyk, Heat (lesser of 5% or $2MM)
J.J. Redick, Sixers (7.5%)
Milos Teodosic, Clippers (15%)
John Wall, Wizards (15%)

Don't know how accurate this site is, but according to them Russ doesn't have a trade kicker clause. Even if he does, apparently OKC would have pay it.

The Lakers had to get Davis to waive his kicker for cap purposes.

[haulerch]

I think people are overestimating what we would have to give up to get Russ.

The issue here is that the Pistons aren't trying to trade for Westbrook, they are in a bidding war with other teams. Multiple teams are going to drive up the asking price.

That's the issue for me. I'd be up for taking on the risks that Westbrook brings. However, I really don't want the Pistons to have a "winning bid" for him.

We are bidding against the Heat, who already owes draft picks to the Thunder. No one else wants that albatross contract other than coked up Gores and Pat Riley. If the Pistons trade for him, it’ll be expirings and maybe a protected first. His contract is horrible. John wall horrible.

[thesack12]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/08/nba-players-with-trade-kickers-in-201819.html

According to the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement, a trade bonus must be paid by the team that trades the player, rather than the team acquiring him. The new CBA also allows a player to waive his trade kicker as part of a deal, if he so chooses.

Steven Adams, Thunder (7.5%)
LaMarcus Aldridge, Spurs (15%)
Kyle Anderson, Grizzlies (15%)
Harrison Barnes, Mavericks (8%): Traded
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Lakers (15%)
Anthony Davis, Pelicans (15%)
Andre Drummond, Pistons (8%)
Kevin Durant, Warriors (15%)
Marc Gasol, Grizzlies (15%): Traded
Tim Hardaway Jr., Knicks (15%): Traded
James Harden, Rockets (15%)
Al Horford, Celtics (15%)
Tyler Johnson, Heat (15%): Traded
Kelly Olynyk, Heat (lesser of 5% or $2MM)
J.J. Redick, Sixers (7.5%)
Milos Teodosic, Clippers (15%)
John Wall, Wizards (15%)

Don't know how accurate this site is, but according to them Russ doesn't have a trade kicker clause. Even if he does, apparently OKC would have pay it.

The Lakers had to get Davis to waive his kicker for cap purposes.

Wait, didn't LAL want to expand the trade to include other teams/players in order to maximize their cap? Maybe AD waived the kicker as a solid to New Orleans for giving in and trading him to his preferred spot.

[thesack12]

I've also read a couple places that players who are already earning their maximum, won't be awarded their trade kickers.

[Snakebites]

I've also read a couple places that players who are already earning their maximum, won't be awarded their trade kickers.

Same, but then why do max deals with trade kickers exist? Only in the event that cap increases outpace the salary increase for a player? Did that happen in this case?

[DBC10]

I think people are overestimating what we would have to give up to get Russ.

The issue here is that the Pistons aren't trying to trade for Westbrook, they are in a bidding war with other teams. Multiple teams are going to drive up the asking price.

That's the issue for me. I'd be up for taking on the risks that Westbrook brings. However, I really don't want the Pistons to have a "winning bid" for him.

Effectively, yes. Those are the facts.

If teams somehow go crazy and bid for him and drive up the price, they're really going to regret it within 2 years, when he's already on the decline right now. He can't even make his FTs consistently anymore, almost always splitting at the line, it's almost as if he doesn't even have legs for his shots.

Call me crazy, but I don't think he can change his style of "Westbrook" ball into something more team friendly. He is what he is.

[thesack12]

I've also read a couple places that players who are already earning their maximum, won't be awarded their trade kickers.

Same, but then why do max deals with trade kickers exist? Only in the event that cap increases outpace the salary increase for a player? Did that happen in this case?

After further reading, it looks like the trade kickers get triggered if they are traded in the offseason. If they are traded in season, the kickers don't get triggered.

Also, regarding who is responsible for paying them...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2812061-anthony-davis-trade-kicker-gives-la-lakers-leverage

One wrinkle in any Davis deal is the 15 percent trade bonus in his contract. The Pelicans would be responsible for an extra $4.1 million payment to Davis if he's dealt in July

So it would appear, that if Russ is traded before the season starts he would enact his trade kicker but OKC would have to pay it. In which case, unless Russ agrees to waive it I can definitely see OKC keeping him until December 15.

[coordinator0]

I've also read a couple places that players who are already earning their maximum, won't be awarded their trade kickers.

Same, but then why do max deals with trade kickers exist? Only in the event that cap increases outpace the salary increase for a player? Did that happen in this case?

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q99

For what it's worth, Westbrook's 15% trade bonus is gigantic. The reaming years of his contract are $38,506,482, $41,358,814, and $44,211,146 since his final year is a player option and not an ETO. Still, 15% of that is $18,611,466.30. He's not waiving that.

[Snakebites]

I've also read a couple places that players who are already earning their maximum, won't be awarded their trade kickers.

Same, but then why do max deals with trade kickers exist? Only in the event that cap increases outpace the salary increase for a player? Did that happen in this case?

After further reading, it looks like the trade kickers get triggered if they are traded in the offseason. If they are traded in season, the kickers don't get triggered.

Also, regarding who is responsible for paying them...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2812061-anthony-davis-trade-kicker-gives-la-lakers-leverage

One wrinkle in any Davis deal is the 15 percent trade bonus in his contract. The Pelicans would be responsible for an extra $4.1 million payment to Davis if he's dealt in July

So it would appear, that if Russ is traded before the season starts he would enact his trade kicker but OKC would have to pay it. In which case, unless Russ agrees to waive it I can definitely see OKC keeping him until December 15.

I also believe they’re working on a trade with him now because there are some teams he’d waive his kicker for to join now. Otherwise there’s not much point.

Are we one of those teams? Possible but highly unlikely.

[ComboGuardCity]

There are really not many teams that will want to risk upgrading their point guard situation to a max player. Only viable buyers during the summer are:

1. Orlando - can offer Fournier, Fultz, prospect + picks
2. Pistons - Expirings, prospects, + picks
3. Bulls - porter, prospects + picks
4. Minnesota - Wiggins + picks
5. Heat - Winslow, Dragic + picks