Welcome Frank Kaminsky

[BigRedDog]

You guys will be pleasantly surprised with Beef. The Hornets offensive rating when Beef was for dinner was surprisingly nice the last two seasons. He's one of the better offensive PF in the league as he can stroke the turkey and he's got some playmaking chops too. Moves the ball well.

Now the downsides.... defensively he doesnt always know which side of the pick to stand on so he's an easy target in the PNR and he gets lost a lot leading to some wide open Threebies. He's the worst rebounding big you've ever seen its like his hands are pretending the ball is lava. And speaking of lava the floor is not lava. He never leaves it. He's also a giant prick that no one likes not even like the team manager, city mayor, or crazy lady in the 7th row thats always screaming "HANDS UP ON DEFENSE BOYS" . There's a reason why the Hornets didnt exxtend a QO even though his play would arguably merit it.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

You guys will be pleasantly surprised with Beef. The Hornets offensive rating when Beef was for dinner was surprisingly nice the last two seasons. He's one of the better offensive PF in the league as he can stroke the turkey and he's got some playmaking chops too. Moves the ball well.

Now the downsides.... defensively he doesnt always know which side of the pick to stand on so he's an easy target in the PNR and he gets lost a lot leading to some wide open Threebies. He's the worst rebounding big you've ever seen its like his hands are pretending the ball is lava. And speaking of lava the floor is not lava. He never leaves it. He's also a giant prick that no one likes not even like the team manager, city mayor, or crazy lady in the 7th row thats always screaming "HANDS UP ON DEFENSE BOYS" . There's a reason why the Hornets didnt exxtend a QO even though his play would arguably merit it.

Keep posting boi. That meal was tasty!

[Qwigglez]

Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.

[suns12345]

Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.

I agree. I think what’s good is if he is terrible, we can fill his minutes with Diallo and Oubre and make do. So I’m not that concerned.

[lilfishi22]

You guys will be pleasantly surprised with Beef. The Hornets offensive rating when Beef was for dinner was surprisingly nice the last two seasons. He's one of the better offensive PF in the league as he can stroke the turkey and he's got some playmaking chops too. Moves the ball well.

Now the downsides.... defensively he doesnt always know which side of the pick to stand on so he's an easy target in the PNR and he gets lost a lot leading to some wide open Threebies. He's the worst rebounding big you've ever seen its like his hands are pretending the ball is lava. And speaking of lava the floor is not lava. He never leaves it. He's also a giant prick that no one likes not even like the team manager, city mayor, or crazy lady in the 7th row thats always screaming "HANDS UP ON DEFENSE BOYS" . There's a reason why the Hornets didnt exxtend a QO even though his play would arguably merit it.

Sumptuous post

[lilfishi22]

Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.

I think it will be Oubre for me. Mainly because he's the one getting the big contract and with big contract comes big expectations. Frank on essentially a 1yr deal that is at the Bi-Annual exception is moveable, cheap and a bit whatever even if we decide to only play him 10mpg

[BigRedDog]

Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.

I dont know he was pretty good last year and he ahs the motivation of a contract year and a fresh start. He will drive you a bit crazy on defense with his lapses and finger pointing. But there's no doubt he helps you on the offensive end.

The Kemba, Frank, Cody trio had crazy high offensive ratings one season.

The problem is he cant be played at center because of his rebounding allergy and inability to guard the PNR... he HAS to be pllayed at PF or he's very bad

he is tough to pull for sometimes b/c frankly he's a cocky jerk who thinks he is a lot funnier than he is. But he has some game, esp for that type of money.

He was the hornets 3rd best offensive player behind Kemba and lamb

[Qwigglez]

Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.

I think it will be Oubre for me. Mainly because he's the one getting the big contract and with big contract comes big expectations. Frank on essentially a 1yr deal that is at the Bi-Annual exception is moveable, cheap and a bit whatever even if we decide to only play him 10mpg

Well what are you expecting out of Oubre? Ariza got a similar contract last year and averaged 10/5.5/3.3/1.5 on 38/36/84 shooting %s.

Or even compare Oubre to other SFs in this free agency class (not including stars).
Harrison Barnes - $21 mil per year 4 year deal
14.3 / 5.5 / 2 on 45/41/80 shooting (Kings stats)

Bojan Bogdanovic - $18mil per year 4 year deal
18 / 4 / 2 /1 on 50 /43/80 shooting

Rudy Gay - $16mil per year 2 year deal
14 / 7 / 2.6 on 50/40/81 shooting


Trevor Ariza also signed for a 2 year deal and then Marcus Morris signed that deal recently too.

Honestly looking at Oubre’s numbers with the Suns looks pretty good. Though if he can shoot in that 36-41% range from 3, I’ll be overjoyed. Looks like all the guys I mentioned above are shooting well from the 3, Oubre needs to join that company.

[BigRedDog]

Yeah i was a HUGE oubre hater but once he went to Phoenix he definitely turned up the netjets... totally different player

[lilfishi22]

Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.

I think it will be Oubre for me. Mainly because he's the one getting the big contract and with big contract comes big expectations. Frank on essentially a 1yr deal that is at the Bi-Annual exception is moveable, cheap and a bit whatever even if we decide to only play him 10mpg

Well what are you expecting out of Oubre? Ariza got a similar contract last year and averaged 10/5.5/3.3/1.5 on 38/36/84 shooting %s.

Or even compare Oubre to other SFs in this free agency class (not including stars).
Harrison Barnes - $21 mil per year 4 year deal
14.3 / 5.5 / 2 on 45/41/80 shooting (Kings stats)

Bojan Bogdanovic - $18mil per year 4 year deal
18 / 4 / 2 /1 on 50 /43/80 shooting

Rudy Gay - $16mil per year 2 year deal
14 / 7 / 2.6 on 50/40/81 shooting


Trevor Ariza also signed for a 2 year deal and then Marcus Morris signed that deal recently too.

Honestly looking at Oubre’s numbers with the Suns looks pretty good. Though if he can shoot in that 36-41% range from 3, I’ll be overjoyed. Looks like all the guys I mentioned above are shooting well from the 3, Oubre needs to join that company.

I'm expecting him to continue to improve to get to a level of consistency we saw from him when he averaged around 20/6 on league average efficiency and showed us what he was about on the defensive end when focused in the last 10 games or so of last season. I don't necessarily need the raw numbers to be at that level but I do want that level of effectiveness in the minutes he does play.

That's the player we envision he could be when we signed him and that's the player I think he should be. If you don't think that's realistic or likely then we overpaid for Oubre

[BigRedDog]

If it helps compare Kaminsky to a guy like Matt Bonner on the 2013 Spurs... the guy was able to provide spacing, shooting, and passing on the perimeter for a team that delivered one of the most impressive NBA Finals scoring performances in the history of the league.

He's a flawed player for certain. But he absolutely could play a role on a title contender. Without a doubt. This is coming from someone who has watched the NBA religiously for 30 years and has seen Frank play a few hundred NBA games and ~15-20 in college.

For whatever reason he gets a lot of hate around the league. People just don't want him to be good. And since he's played for mostly bad teams he has a reputation as a scrub. But the guy absolutely belongs in the league and hes much closer to a net neutral player (WHEN HE PLAYS PASSABLE DEFENSE) than a negative one overall. Sometimes he is prone to severe mental lapses or just has no one he can cover on defense and those nights he's a towel waver. But other nights, he absolutely belongs in a rotation in this league and is a threat to drop ~15-18 points in fairly short order.

Keep an open mind on him I promise you'll be surprised at what he brings to the table some nights. I mean for a fan base who just watched guys like Josh Jackson, Marquese Chriss, and Dragan Bender every night I know you'll immediately appreciate the level of overall offensive competence he brings. Offesnively, i would put him ahead of TJ Warren at the 4 spot. TJ Warren is a better scorer no doubt, but Frank provides superior spacing and allows your true elite offensive options (like Booker) to excel rather than cramping the court and relying on less efficient mid-range umpshots... It's not all about what the player does HIMSELF... it's often about what he allows others to do...particularly at the 4-spot.

He's only going to open up the middle of the floor for a guy like Ayton and provide driving lanes for guys like Oubre/Booker. He's got range that extends well above the 3 point line and he's not a guy you HAVE to park in the corner. In fact, he's more effective above the break because he can shoot well from there and it opens up more passing lanes for him. He also puts the ball on the floor well if you close out hard on him. From there he's awkward when he tries to get all the way to the basket, but he has some midrange game and passes the ball extremely well. He had one of the best shooting percentages in the entire league between 3-10 feet, a very solid assist rate and a/to ratio, and again he's not strictly a "corner 3" guy which means you can play him above the break and park either a lesser shooter in the corner when he's in the game or a knockdown guy there who can fill it up....

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

[BigRedDog]

Years ago i was speaking to a long time assistant coach in the league. And he said something to me that really registered. We were discussing the career trajectory of various players. I can't restate that exact conversation and do it any justice.. but in summary he told me that some guys are in the league based solely on their potential, most others based on their current productivity, and a select few strictly for veteran leadership.

But the single greatest way to hang onto a career on its downside was to be a B+ at everything or an A+ at something... In other words... If you're Andre Iguodala and can still effectively do a little bit of everything you'll last a long time... but if you're not.. you better figure out something you can do and do it better than just about everyone else in the league.. He actually used James Jones as an example... at the time he was like a ~9-10 year veteran with bad knees who was all but worthless in any capacity except as a sharpshooter. He explained that if you fill that role better than anyone else, coaches can always find a scenario where you may have value... like the end of a quarter, overtime, where they need a reliable rim protector, 3 point shooter, ball handler, or lateral defender . Due to scheduling demands, injuries, or foul trouble a person at the end of the bench who provides a distinct, discernible advantage in one particular aspect of the game is significantly more valuable than "just some guy" who is a C+ across the board.

On that note... figure out a list of players who shot better from 3-10 feet than Frank Kaminsky did last season. Let me save you some time. It's an awfully short list. Like you might not even need to grab a pen. If you really want to make a "list" go ahead and include anyone who has played in the league in the last DECADE just so it more closely resembles a "list" of names.

Then look at a list of 7 footers who shot above 35% above the break in the NBA last year. For that the pen is still probably optional.

Now grab that pen and write down the names of anyone 7'0 or taller who attempted a Qualifying amount of 3-pointers in the league last year. Then compare their assist rate, Assist/Turnover ratio, and FG% from 3-10 feet against Frank Kaminsky's.

After you've done all that research perhaps take a moment to google the name of Frank Kaminsky's agent and compare his credentials against yours and see if perhaps you could have done a better a job of negotiating Frank's next contract than he did. I'd like to think I could have. Then again, I can't stand the guy.

[Saberestar]

Years ago i was speaking to a long time assistant coach in the league. And he said something to me that really registered. We were discussing the career trajectory of various players. I can't restate that exact conversation and do it any justice.. but in summary he told me that some guys are in the league based solely on their potential, most others based on their current productivity, and a select few strictly for veteran leadership.

But the single greatest way to hang onto a career on its downside was to be a B+ at everything or an A+ at something... In other words... If you're Andre Iguodala and can still effectively do a little bit of everything you'll last a long time... but if you're not.. you better figure out something you can do and do it better than just about everyone else in the league.. He actually used James Jones as an example... at the time he was like a ~9-10 year veteran with bad knees who was all but worthless in any capacity except as a sharpshooter. He explained that if you fill that role better than anyone else, coaches can always find a scenario where you may have value... like the end of a quarter, overtime, where they need a reliable rim protector, 3 point shooter, ball handler, or lateral defender . Due to scheduling demands, injuries, or foul trouble a person at the end of the bench who provides a distinct, discernible advantage in one particular aspect of the game is significantly more valuable than "just some guy" who is a C+ across the board.

On that note... figure out a list of players who shot better from 3-10 feet than Frank Kaminsky did last season. Let me save you some time. It's an awfully short list. Like you might not even need to grab a pen. If you really want to make a "list" go ahead and include anyone who has played in the league in the last DECADE just so it more closely resembles a "list" of names.

Then look at a list of 7 footers who shot above 35% above the break in the NBA last year. For that the pen is still probably optional.

Now grab that pen and write down the names of anyone 7'0 or taller who attempted a Qualifying amount of 3-pointers in the league last year. Then compare their assist rate, Assist/Turnover ratio, and FG% from 3-10 feet against Frank Kaminsky's.

After you've done all that research perhaps take a moment to google the name of Frank Kaminsky's agent and compare his credentials against yours and see if perhaps you could have done a better a job of negotiating Frank's next contract than he did. I'd like to think I could have. Then again, I can't stand the guy.

Interesting post.

I think that Kaminsky is an specialist, a big who can spread the floor with his great 3p shooting, but he is limited on everything else.

He is average or bellow average at everything else, and that is why he will probably play more than 10 years in the NBA but at the same time he will never earn big money in the league. Specialists are paid less money than all around players... that is a fact. And it makes sense because those type of players usually can't stay on the floor for long stretches of a game.

We have seen plenty of specialists in the NBA, but I want to give an example. Reggie Evans.

IMO Reggie Evans was the best rebounder in the entire league during his prime. The guy was a nasty rebounder and tough as nails, but he was bellow average at every other basketball skill.

Evans played 13 seasons in the NBA, but his highest salary on one year was $5M. He usually got around minimum contracts per year. He ended his career earnings with a total of $33M.

I know that salaries are a bit higher nowadays in the league, but that is the type of money that Kaminsky probably deserves for his production as a specialist.

He is gonna get more than what Reggie Evans got during his total career because he was a lottery pick, but I think his current contract with the Suns is FAIR. I think his agent did a solid job.

[jcsunsfan]

Read on Twitter

Good grief. This dude's shoulder height is about the same as a 6-9 player. He has a giraffe neck and a huge head. He has the shoulders of a little girl. Frank really needs to hit the upper body some.

[bhawk]

Read on Twitter

Good grief. This dude's shoulder height is about the same as a 6-9 player. He has a giraffe neck and a huge head. He has the shoulders of a little girl. Frank really needs to hit the upper body some.

Your post reminded me of Fletch...

Watch on YouTube

[316Hornets]

Kaminsky is really only good in a handful of match-ups. His reaction time on defense against agile players is abysmal. On offense, he does a lot of standing around, but can go on a heater on occasion. He does do this spin move in the lane that is pretty hard to stop due to how much space he covers, kind of like Giannis but a lot slower.

[lilfishi22]

Kaminsky is really only good in a handful of match-ups. His reaction time on defense against agile players is abysmal. On offense, he does a lot of standing around, but can go on a heater on occasion. He does do this spin move in the lane that is pretty hard to stop due to how much space he covers, kind of like Giannis but a lot slower.

Hardly the perfect PF but I like what he brings in terms of his shooting, size (for what it's worth) and just added depth behind Saric who is out starter and next to Diallo who's a polar opposite in terms of player profile.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

From Bob Young
Maybe training camp and a preseason game aren’t enough evidence to build a case that the culture on Planet Orange has changed yet.

But at least one thing is evident: The Suns have players in their locker room who are expected to provide veteran leadership who really want to be there.

And it doesn’t hurt that they can actually play.

Point guard Ricky Rubio called joining the Suns a “great opportunity” when he signed as a free agent.

Center Aron Baynes, who came in a trade with Boston, discovered a feeling different than he had anticipated when he got to Phoenix, “a good feeling, there’s an excited feeling,” he said.

But maybe none of the newcomers is happier to be here than big man Frank Kaminsky, who was buried at the end of the bench for much of last season in Charlotte.

“I can’t tell you how much different I feel just being here,” he said. “I’m just so happy. It’s been a great transition, something I was kind of prepared for, something I really wanted to do, just to get a new opportunity, get a fresh start.”

They bring a whole different vibe to the Suns than a year ago when veteran center Tyson Chandler and offseason acquisitions Trevor Ariza and Ryan Anderson didn’t even last a full season with the club. At least Anderson tried to contribute in the locker room, but his game was gone on the floor.

Guard Jamal Crawford was an exception. Crawford was a positive influence in the locker room and a contributor on the court, despite being pressed into a playmaking role on a team bereft of point guards.

But unlike last year’s veterans, Rubio, Baynes and Kaminsky still have a lot of basketball ahead of them.

Rubio has been playing professionally for 14 years, but he’s still only 28 years old. Baynes is 32, just beginning his eighth NBA season. And Kaminsky, who spent his first four seasons with the Hornets, is only 26.

Of the three, Kaminsky might be the biggest X-factor, and he definitely has the most to prove.

It wasn’t that long ago that Kaminsky was the consensus national player of the year at Wisconsin and a noted Arizona Wildcats killer. Twice he and Wisconsin denied the Wildcats a berth in the Final Four, beating them in back-to-back Elite Eight games.

And in his senior season, he helped the Badgers avenge a Final Four loss to the Kentucky Wildcats in 2014 by knocking off a 38-0 Kentucky team in the 2015 Final Four. The Badgers eventually lost to Duke for the NCAA title.

By the time the Suns held their annual media day, Kaminsky said he already had heard about the two Arizona games “about 20 times.”

“Sorry but, like, I’m not that sorry,” he cracked.

At least he can joke around these days. Last season was mostly drudgery for Kaminsky, who had three solid if not spectacular seasons in Charlotte before James Borrego , a former assistant of Suns coach Monty Williams when Williams was head coach in New Orleans, was hired before last season.

Kaminsky didn’t play in 11 of Charlotte’s first 16 games. Later, he endured a stretch of 24 DNPs in 31 games.

“For all intents and purposes, the first 60 games of the season I wasn’t really a factor,” he said. “I wasn’t playing too much. I had a small opportunity in January, but that was just because of injuries and then people came back and it went back to pretty much the same situation.

“The last 20 games of the season, when our backs were kind of against the wall, they asked me to step up and play, just go out there and do what they knew I could do. I think I answered that.”

In game 62, at the end of that 31-game stretch, he came off the bench in Brooklyn and scored 15 points on 7-of-12 shooting with seven rebounds in 24 minutes and Charlotte won.

To commemorate his revival, Kaminsky posted a meme on Twitter of The Undertaker, of WWE fame, sitting up in his coffin.

The resurrection continued with Kaminsky playing in every game for the remainder of the season. He scored in double figures in 13 of those 20 games, including outbursts of 21, 22 and 24 late in the season when the Hornets were trying to sneak into the playoffs.

Kaminsky said that late stretch gave him confidence going into the offseason and into training camp, but it was a testing final year in Charlotte.

“It’s hard. It’s definitely hard,” he said. “Obviously you’re viewed as a basketball player, but it starts to wear on other parts of your life.”

He said he tried to remain ready and be a positive influence while waiting to get another chance from Borrego.

“That last year was obviously a big test for me mentally, you know, trying to stay patient, be the best teammate I could be, not make anything about myself,” he said. “(You) try not to be selfish, just try to go out there every single day and try to help the team and try to keep the culture in the right spot.

“When I finally got that opportunity to play, I was so excited to get out there and play. I love playing basketball. When you’re around a team every single day and you’re putting all the work in and you don’t get to see the results within games, it obviously works on you mentally.

“So I was just so excited when I finally got back out there. I wanted to do whatever I could to make sure it wouldn’t go back to what it was.”

And he picked up where he left off in the Suns preseason opener against Minnesota, playing center in some small lineups and power forward for a short stint with starters Rubio, Devin Booker, Deandre Ayton and Cameron Johnson, and longer stretches with reserves. He hit six of nine shots, including a pair of 3-pointers in five attempts, and grabbed four rebounds.

He was the first big man off the bench, and will likely play mostly as a floor-spacing power forward with Baynes at center in relief of Ayton.

“That’s what it’s been so far (in camp),” he said. “There’s obviously going to be some times when I’ll probably have to play five. You never know what’s going to happen. It’s a long season, so the preseason is all about being prepared for whatever you’re going to see.

“I just want to come in and have a role with this team. I’m not demanding anything. I know things go up and things go down, and it’s not always going to be perfect. But I will try to make the right plays. I feel like I’ve improved a lot on the defensive end, and I want to keep getting better and better at that. I know I can make all those moves and all those shots on offense. I have that in my game. But I want to keep getting better on the defensive end.”

Kaminsky spent the offseason working on his mid-range game to complement his long-range shooting. Mid-range skills are becoming a lost art in the modern NBA game, which emphasizes 3-point shots or going all the way to the rim.

But he is also trying to be a steadying presence on a young team, especially for the Phoenix reserves. He’s the kind of player who creates chemistry, a virtue that was sorely missed in the Suns locker room last season.

“I feel like my ability to get along and understand how people play is going to be a useful tool for this team,” he said. “Everybody likes to do different things. There’s got to be somebody that’s going to be a leader. You’ve got to have first-team leaders but you’ve also got to have a second-team leader.

“We have a really young team, so it’s important to have somebody out there who has kind of been through it, who can go out there and get people organized, get them in the right spots and try to make plays for them so they don’t have to handle too much.”

Kaminsky said he has worked on other aspects of his game that he never had the chance to show last season in Charlotte. But his basketball IQ has always been there.

“I get kind of get labeled as a spot-up 3-point shooter,” he said. “I think I can do a lot more than that. I can put the ball on the floor. I can create for other people. Within an offense, I’m going to be able to figure out how to help other guys play better and play to their strengths
and avoid their weaknesses.”

His other priority is staying in Ayton’s ear, but not to criticize. Quite the opposite.

“I try to get DA, every single day, to understand how dominant he can be in the NBA,” Kaminsky said, gazing across the locker room at the Suns man-child with a bemused look. “I haven’t played with somebody that has the potential that he has. You saw him. He can do it on both sides of the floor. He can be such a menace on defense. And he can be such a dominant force on offense.

“I know he wants to start shooting 3s and everything; he keeps telling me he’s looking at my shot to figure out how to shoot 3s. But that part of his game will come.

“It’s kind of crazy. He’s so comfortable shooting fade-away jumpers and turn-around jump shots. There’s not many guys that are comfortable with that part of the game before they’re comfortable shooting a 3. It’s kind of weird how his game has developed into this mid-range, floater, shoot-over-the top-of-you game before he’s developed away from the basket.

“I think you see that soft touch, his ability to read defenses and make good moves and finish them. So it’s only natural he’ll be able to move farther away. But the way he can dominate inside for us is just going to open up everything for everyone else.

“I truly don’t think he understands how good he can be. He can be first-team All-NBA, first-team All-Defense, get 25 (points) and 13 (rebounds) a night. I think he has that kind of potential.”

Kaminsky smiled, perhaps remembering for a moment how quickly fortunes can change in the NBA.

“And I hope I’m here to be able to see it,” he added.

[Frank Lee]

‘Beef’ ?

Where does that come from? I’d guess ‘cheese’