Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
You guys will be pleasantly surprised with Beef. The Hornets offensive rating when Beef was for dinner was surprisingly nice the last two seasons. He's one of the better offensive PF in the league as he can stroke the turkey and he's got some playmaking chops too. Moves the ball well.
Now the downsides.... defensively he doesnt always know which side of the pick to stand on so he's an easy target in the PNR and he gets lost a lot leading to some wide open Threebies. He's the worst rebounding big you've ever seen its like his hands are pretending the ball is lava. And speaking of lava the floor is not lava. He never leaves it. He's also a giant prick that no one likes not even like the team manager, city mayor, or crazy lady in the 7th row thats always screaming "HANDS UP ON DEFENSE BOYS" . There's a reason why the Hornets didnt exxtend a QO even though his play would arguably merit it.
Now the downsides.... defensively he doesnt always know which side of the pick to stand on so he's an easy target in the PNR and he gets lost a lot leading to some wide open Threebies. He's the worst rebounding big you've ever seen its like his hands are pretending the ball is lava. And speaking of lava the floor is not lava. He never leaves it. He's also a giant prick that no one likes not even like the team manager, city mayor, or crazy lady in the 7th row thats always screaming "HANDS UP ON DEFENSE BOYS" . There's a reason why the Hornets didnt exxtend a QO even though his play would arguably merit it.
Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
BigRedDog wrote:You guys will be pleasantly surprised with Beef. The Hornets offensive rating when Beef was for dinner was surprisingly nice the last two seasons. He's one of the better offensive PF in the league as he can stroke the turkey and he's got some playmaking chops too. Moves the ball well.
Now the downsides.... defensively he doesnt always know which side of the pick to stand on so he's an easy target in the PNR and he gets lost a lot leading to some wide open Threebies. He's the worst rebounding big you've ever seen its like his hands are pretending the ball is lava. And speaking of lava the floor is not lava. He never leaves it. He's also a giant prick that no one likes not even like the team manager, city mayor, or crazy lady in the 7th row thats always screaming "HANDS UP ON DEFENSE BOYS" . There's a reason why the Hornets didnt exxtend a QO even though his play would arguably merit it.
Keep posting boi. That meal was tasty!
Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.
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Qwigglez wrote:Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.
I agree. I think what’s good is if he is terrible, we can fill his minutes with Diallo and Oubre and make do. So I’m not that concerned.
Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
BigRedDog wrote:You guys will be pleasantly surprised with Beef. The Hornets offensive rating when Beef was for dinner was surprisingly nice the last two seasons. He's one of the better offensive PF in the league as he can stroke the turkey and he's got some playmaking chops too. Moves the ball well.
Now the downsides.... defensively he doesnt always know which side of the pick to stand on so he's an easy target in the PNR and he gets lost a lot leading to some wide open Threebies. He's the worst rebounding big you've ever seen its like his hands are pretending the ball is lava. And speaking of lava the floor is not lava. He never leaves it. He's also a giant prick that no one likes not even like the team manager, city mayor, or crazy lady in the 7th row thats always screaming "HANDS UP ON DEFENSE BOYS" . There's a reason why the Hornets didnt exxtend a QO even though his play would arguably merit it.
Sumptuous post
lilfishi22 wrote:More than ever....we are in the championship or bust endgame
Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
Qwigglez wrote:Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.
I think it will be Oubre for me. Mainly because he's the one getting the big contract and with big contract comes big expectations. Frank on essentially a 1yr deal that is at the Bi-Annual exception is moveable, cheap and a bit whatever even if we decide to only play him 10mpg
lilfishi22 wrote:More than ever....we are in the championship or bust endgame
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Qwigglez wrote:Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.
I dont know he was pretty good last year and he ahs the motivation of a contract year and a fresh start. He will drive you a bit crazy on defense with his lapses and finger pointing. But there's no doubt he helps you on the offensive end.
The Kemba, Frank, Cody trio had crazy high offensive ratings one season.
The problem is he cant be played at center because of his rebounding allergy and inability to guard the PNR... he HAS to be pllayed at PF or he's very bad
he is tough to pull for sometimes b/c frankly he's a cocky jerk who thinks he is a lot funnier than he is. But he has some game, esp for that type of money.
He was the hornets 3rd best offensive player behind Kemba and lamb
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
lilfishi22 wrote:Qwigglez wrote:Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.
I think it will be Oubre for me. Mainly because he's the one getting the big contract and with big contract comes big expectations. Frank on essentially a 1yr deal that is at the Bi-Annual exception is moveable, cheap and a bit whatever even if we decide to only play him 10mpg
Well what are you expecting out of Oubre? Ariza got a similar contract last year and averaged 10/5.5/3.3/1.5 on 38/36/84 shooting %s.
Or even compare Oubre to other SFs in this free agency class (not including stars).
Harrison Barnes - $21 mil per year 4 year deal
14.3 / 5.5 / 2 on 45/41/80 shooting (Kings stats)
Bojan Bogdanovic - $18mil per year 4 year deal
18 / 4 / 2 /1 on 50 /43/80 shooting
Rudy Gay - $16mil per year 2 year deal
14 / 7 / 2.6 on 50/40/81 shooting
Trevor Ariza also signed for a 2 year deal and then Marcus Morris signed that deal recently too.
Honestly looking at Oubre’s numbers with the Suns looks pretty good. Though if he can shoot in that 36-41% range from 3, I’ll be overjoyed. Looks like all the guys I mentioned above are shooting well from the 3, Oubre needs to join that company.
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Yeah i was a HUGE oubre hater but once he went to Phoenix he definitely turned up the netjets... totally different player
Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
Qwigglez wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Qwigglez wrote:Usually I’m pretty optimistic about new players, but I think Frank will be the scapegoat player I yell at when things go wrong.
I think it will be Oubre for me. Mainly because he's the one getting the big contract and with big contract comes big expectations. Frank on essentially a 1yr deal that is at the Bi-Annual exception is moveable, cheap and a bit whatever even if we decide to only play him 10mpg
Well what are you expecting out of Oubre? Ariza got a similar contract last year and averaged 10/5.5/3.3/1.5 on 38/36/84 shooting %s.
Or even compare Oubre to other SFs in this free agency class (not including stars).
Harrison Barnes - $21 mil per year 4 year deal
14.3 / 5.5 / 2 on 45/41/80 shooting (Kings stats)
Bojan Bogdanovic - $18mil per year 4 year deal
18 / 4 / 2 /1 on 50 /43/80 shooting
Rudy Gay - $16mil per year 2 year deal
14 / 7 / 2.6 on 50/40/81 shooting
Trevor Ariza also signed for a 2 year deal and then Marcus Morris signed that deal recently too.
Honestly looking at Oubre’s numbers with the Suns looks pretty good. Though if he can shoot in that 36-41% range from 3, I’ll be overjoyed. Looks like all the guys I mentioned above are shooting well from the 3, Oubre needs to join that company.
I'm expecting him to continue to improve to get to a level of consistency we saw from him when he averaged around 20/6 on league average efficiency and showed us what he was about on the defensive end when focused in the last 10 games or so of last season. I don't necessarily need the raw numbers to be at that level but I do want that level of effectiveness in the minutes he does play.
That's the player we envision he could be when we signed him and that's the player I think he should be. If you don't think that's realistic or likely then we overpaid for Oubre
lilfishi22 wrote:More than ever....we are in the championship or bust endgame
Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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If it helps compare Kaminsky to a guy like Matt Bonner on the 2013 Spurs... the guy was able to provide spacing, shooting, and passing on the perimeter for a team that delivered one of the most impressive NBA Finals scoring performances in the history of the league.
He's a flawed player for certain. But he absolutely could play a role on a title contender. Without a doubt. This is coming from someone who has watched the NBA religiously for 30 years and has seen Frank play a few hundred NBA games and ~15-20 in college.
For whatever reason he gets a lot of hate around the league. People just don't want him to be good. And since he's played for mostly bad teams he has a reputation as a scrub. But the guy absolutely belongs in the league and hes much closer to a net neutral player (WHEN HE PLAYS PASSABLE DEFENSE) than a negative one overall. Sometimes he is prone to severe mental lapses or just has no one he can cover on defense and those nights he's a towel waver. But other nights, he absolutely belongs in a rotation in this league and is a threat to drop ~15-18 points in fairly short order.
Keep an open mind on him I promise you'll be surprised at what he brings to the table some nights. I mean for a fan base who just watched guys like Josh Jackson, Marquese Chriss, and Dragan Bender every night I know you'll immediately appreciate the level of overall offensive competence he brings. Offesnively, i would put him ahead of TJ Warren at the 4 spot. TJ Warren is a better scorer no doubt, but Frank provides superior spacing and allows your true elite offensive options (like Booker) to excel rather than cramping the court and relying on less efficient mid-range umpshots... It's not all about what the player does HIMSELF... it's often about what he allows others to do...particularly at the 4-spot.
He's only going to open up the middle of the floor for a guy like Ayton and provide driving lanes for guys like Oubre/Booker. He's got range that extends well above the 3 point line and he's not a guy you HAVE to park in the corner. In fact, he's more effective above the break because he can shoot well from there and it opens up more passing lanes for him. He also puts the ball on the floor well if you close out hard on him. From there he's awkward when he tries to get all the way to the basket, but he has some midrange game and passes the ball extremely well. He had one of the best shooting percentages in the entire league between 3-10 feet, a very solid assist rate and a/to ratio, and again he's not strictly a "corner 3" guy which means you can play him above the break and park either a lesser shooter in the corner when he's in the game or a knockdown guy there who can fill it up....
He's a flawed player for certain. But he absolutely could play a role on a title contender. Without a doubt. This is coming from someone who has watched the NBA religiously for 30 years and has seen Frank play a few hundred NBA games and ~15-20 in college.
For whatever reason he gets a lot of hate around the league. People just don't want him to be good. And since he's played for mostly bad teams he has a reputation as a scrub. But the guy absolutely belongs in the league and hes much closer to a net neutral player (WHEN HE PLAYS PASSABLE DEFENSE) than a negative one overall. Sometimes he is prone to severe mental lapses or just has no one he can cover on defense and those nights he's a towel waver. But other nights, he absolutely belongs in a rotation in this league and is a threat to drop ~15-18 points in fairly short order.
Keep an open mind on him I promise you'll be surprised at what he brings to the table some nights. I mean for a fan base who just watched guys like Josh Jackson, Marquese Chriss, and Dragan Bender every night I know you'll immediately appreciate the level of overall offensive competence he brings. Offesnively, i would put him ahead of TJ Warren at the 4 spot. TJ Warren is a better scorer no doubt, but Frank provides superior spacing and allows your true elite offensive options (like Booker) to excel rather than cramping the court and relying on less efficient mid-range umpshots... It's not all about what the player does HIMSELF... it's often about what he allows others to do...particularly at the 4-spot.
He's only going to open up the middle of the floor for a guy like Ayton and provide driving lanes for guys like Oubre/Booker. He's got range that extends well above the 3 point line and he's not a guy you HAVE to park in the corner. In fact, he's more effective above the break because he can shoot well from there and it opens up more passing lanes for him. He also puts the ball on the floor well if you close out hard on him. From there he's awkward when he tries to get all the way to the basket, but he has some midrange game and passes the ball extremely well. He had one of the best shooting percentages in the entire league between 3-10 feet, a very solid assist rate and a/to ratio, and again he's not strictly a "corner 3" guy which means you can play him above the break and park either a lesser shooter in the corner when he's in the game or a knockdown guy there who can fill it up....
Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Years ago i was speaking to a long time assistant coach in the league. And he said something to me that really registered. We were discussing the career trajectory of various players. I can't restate that exact conversation and do it any justice.. but in summary he told me that some guys are in the league based solely on their potential, most others based on their current productivity, and a select few strictly for veteran leadership.
But the single greatest way to hang onto a career on its downside was to be a B+ at everything or an A+ at something... In other words... If you're Andre Iguodala and can still effectively do a little bit of everything you'll last a long time... but if you're not.. you better figure out something you can do and do it better than just about everyone else in the league.. He actually used James Jones as an example... at the time he was like a ~9-10 year veteran with bad knees who was all but worthless in any capacity except as a sharpshooter. He explained that if you fill that role better than anyone else, coaches can always find a scenario where you may have value... like the end of a quarter, overtime, where they need a reliable rim protector, 3 point shooter, ball handler, or lateral defender . Due to scheduling demands, injuries, or foul trouble a person at the end of the bench who provides a distinct, discernible advantage in one particular aspect of the game is significantly more valuable than "just some guy" who is a C+ across the board.
On that note... figure out a list of players who shot better from 3-10 feet than Frank Kaminsky did last season. Let me save you some time. It's an awfully short list. Like you might not even need to grab a pen. If you really want to make a "list" go ahead and include anyone who has played in the league in the last DECADE just so it more closely resembles a "list" of names.
Then look at a list of 7 footers who shot above 35% above the break in the NBA last year. For that the pen is still probably optional.
Now grab that pen and write down the names of anyone 7'0 or taller who attempted a Qualifying amount of 3-pointers in the league last year. Then compare their assist rate, Assist/Turnover ratio, and FG% from 3-10 feet against Frank Kaminsky's.
After you've done all that research perhaps take a moment to google the name of Frank Kaminsky's agent and compare his credentials against yours and see if perhaps you could have done a better a job of negotiating Frank's next contract than he did. I'd like to think I could have. Then again, I can't stand the guy.
But the single greatest way to hang onto a career on its downside was to be a B+ at everything or an A+ at something... In other words... If you're Andre Iguodala and can still effectively do a little bit of everything you'll last a long time... but if you're not.. you better figure out something you can do and do it better than just about everyone else in the league.. He actually used James Jones as an example... at the time he was like a ~9-10 year veteran with bad knees who was all but worthless in any capacity except as a sharpshooter. He explained that if you fill that role better than anyone else, coaches can always find a scenario where you may have value... like the end of a quarter, overtime, where they need a reliable rim protector, 3 point shooter, ball handler, or lateral defender . Due to scheduling demands, injuries, or foul trouble a person at the end of the bench who provides a distinct, discernible advantage in one particular aspect of the game is significantly more valuable than "just some guy" who is a C+ across the board.
On that note... figure out a list of players who shot better from 3-10 feet than Frank Kaminsky did last season. Let me save you some time. It's an awfully short list. Like you might not even need to grab a pen. If you really want to make a "list" go ahead and include anyone who has played in the league in the last DECADE just so it more closely resembles a "list" of names.
Then look at a list of 7 footers who shot above 35% above the break in the NBA last year. For that the pen is still probably optional.
Now grab that pen and write down the names of anyone 7'0 or taller who attempted a Qualifying amount of 3-pointers in the league last year. Then compare their assist rate, Assist/Turnover ratio, and FG% from 3-10 feet against Frank Kaminsky's.
After you've done all that research perhaps take a moment to google the name of Frank Kaminsky's agent and compare his credentials against yours and see if perhaps you could have done a better a job of negotiating Frank's next contract than he did. I'd like to think I could have. Then again, I can't stand the guy.
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BigRedDog wrote:Years ago i was speaking to a long time assistant coach in the league. And he said something to me that really registered. We were discussing the career trajectory of various players. I can't restate that exact conversation and do it any justice.. but in summary he told me that some guys are in the league based solely on their potential, most others based on their current productivity, and a select few strictly for veteran leadership.
But the single greatest way to hang onto a career on its downside was to be a B+ at everything or an A+ at something... In other words... If you're Andre Iguodala and can still effectively do a little bit of everything you'll last a long time... but if you're not.. you better figure out something you can do and do it better than just about everyone else in the league.. He actually used James Jones as an example... at the time he was like a ~9-10 year veteran with bad knees who was all but worthless in any capacity except as a sharpshooter. He explained that if you fill that role better than anyone else, coaches can always find a scenario where you may have value... like the end of a quarter, overtime, where they need a reliable rim protector, 3 point shooter, ball handler, or lateral defender . Due to scheduling demands, injuries, or foul trouble a person at the end of the bench who provides a distinct, discernible advantage in one particular aspect of the game is significantly more valuable than "just some guy" who is a C+ across the board.
On that note... figure out a list of players who shot better from 3-10 feet than Frank Kaminsky did last season. Let me save you some time. It's an awfully short list. Like you might not even need to grab a pen. If you really want to make a "list" go ahead and include anyone who has played in the league in the last DECADE just so it more closely resembles a "list" of names.
Then look at a list of 7 footers who shot above 35% above the break in the NBA last year. For that the pen is still probably optional.
Now grab that pen and write down the names of anyone 7'0 or taller who attempted a Qualifying amount of 3-pointers in the league last year. Then compare their assist rate, Assist/Turnover ratio, and FG% from 3-10 feet against Frank Kaminsky's.
After you've done all that research perhaps take a moment to google the name of Frank Kaminsky's agent and compare his credentials against yours and see if perhaps you could have done a better a job of negotiating Frank's next contract than he did. I'd like to think I could have. Then again, I can't stand the guy.
Interesting post.
I think that Kaminsky is an specialist, a big who can spread the floor with his great 3p shooting, but he is limited on everything else.
He is average or bellow average at everything else, and that is why he will probably play more than 10 years in the NBA but at the same time he will never earn big money in the league. Specialists are paid less money than all around players... that is a fact. And it makes sense because those type of players usually can't stay on the floor for long stretches of a game.
We have seen plenty of specialists in the NBA, but I want to give an example. Reggie Evans.
IMO Reggie Evans was the best rebounder in the entire league during his prime. The guy was a nasty rebounder and tough as nails, but he was bellow average at every other basketball skill.
Evans played 13 seasons in the NBA, but his highest salary on one year was $5M. He usually got around minimum contracts per year. He ended his career earnings with a total of $33M.
I know that salaries are a bit higher nowadays in the league, but that is the type of money that Kaminsky probably deserves for his production as a specialist.
He is gonna get more than what Reggie Evans got during his total career because he was a lottery pick, but I think his current contract with the Suns is FAIR. I think his agent did a solid job.
Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
Saberestar wrote:
Good grief. This dude's shoulder height is about the same as a 6-9 player. He has a giraffe neck and a huge head. He has the shoulders of a little girl. Frank really needs to hit the upper body some.
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
jcsunsfan wrote:Saberestar wrote:
Good grief. This dude's shoulder height is about the same as a 6-9 player. He has a giraffe neck and a huge head. He has the shoulders of a little girl. Frank really needs to hit the upper body some.
Your post reminded me of Fletch...
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Kaminsky is really only good in a handful of match-ups. His reaction time on defense against agile players is abysmal. On offense, he does a lot of standing around, but can go on a heater on occasion. He does do this spin move in the lane that is pretty hard to stop due to how much space he covers, kind of like Giannis but a lot slower.
The Charlotte Hornets will win their first round series against the Boston Celtics in the 2021 Playoffs
Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
316Hornets wrote:Kaminsky is really only good in a handful of match-ups. His reaction time on defense against agile players is abysmal. On offense, he does a lot of standing around, but can go on a heater on occasion. He does do this spin move in the lane that is pretty hard to stop due to how much space he covers, kind of like Giannis but a lot slower.
Hardly the perfect PF but I like what he brings in terms of his shooting, size (for what it's worth) and just added depth behind Saric who is out starter and next to Diallo who's a polar opposite in terms of player profile.
lilfishi22 wrote:More than ever....we are in the championship or bust endgame
Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
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Re: Welcome Frank Kaminsky
Spoiler: