spree2kawhi wrote:Did anyone follow Frank's play in those friendly games?
Yes. Fat Kat posted my Twitter threads earlier.
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spree2kawhi wrote:Did anyone follow Frank's play in those friendly games?
spree2kawhi wrote:Did anyone follow Frank's play in those friendly games?
K-DOT wrote:Thugger HBC wrote:
Imo, it makes no sense to compare what the Knicks are doing to other teams actions. We're clearly rebuilding and have all tools available. This shouldnt be rushed, but rather carefully executed no matter how long it takes.
This is the thing though
Would you rather we A: establish a culture from day one, hold guys accountable for not playing defense, and instill an offensive system based on passing the ball
Or B: just throw guys out there and let them do whatever for 48 minutes a game because we're not gonna be good anyways.
My point in using the Nets is to show that teams that do the first option have a higher chance of successfully pulling off a rebuild than teams that do the second option, which is what we're doing
malik959 wrote:Why do people demand to tank, but than complain about not running plays and bad rotations?
Thugger HBC wrote:K-DOT wrote:Thugger HBC wrote:
Imo, it makes no sense to compare what the Knicks are doing to other teams actions. We're clearly rebuilding and have all tools available. This shouldnt be rushed, but rather carefully executed no matter how long it takes.
This is the thing though
Would you rather we A: establish a culture from day one, hold guys accountable for not playing defense, and instill an offensive system based on passing the ball
Or B: just throw guys out there and let them do whatever for 48 minutes a game because we're not gonna be good anyways.
My point in using the Nets is to show that teams that do the first option have a higher chance of successfully pulling off a rebuild than teams that do the second option, which is what we're doing
We saw both. Phil had his culture before the players. Everyone and their mama knew we were running the triangle. The team was absolute garbage, with such system. What role did Phil system provide, when the team itself and opponent hated it?
Now we have a primarily young team, that I do feel should have a system, but also needs to get in games regardless. I don't have any major qualms with what Fiz did last season. Sure I'd like to see a set system, but I also wanted the young guns to get the bulk of minutes.....the latter I favored way over the former. Besides I wanted a hard tank so whether there was a system or not I didn't care, just at the least compete, and mostly they did that.
As for what the team has currently, you have to allow these youngsters to actually play. I think a guy like Knox can see the hand writing, he wont have a long leash this season, he's got guys that can play his position this year, guys that can score some and defend, so i think accountability with naturally arrive through that aspect alone. In honesty, Knox controls his fate better than any coach will. Even Mitch has guys that can hold his position down. He aint safe either. He can't be reckless with his court time either. Trier fits in that mold as well.
And now with another influx of young talent, the "show what you can do" process is rebooted again somewhat. Imagine benching your 3rd pick of the draft because of his defense. That kid just turned 19, let him cook out there. I didnt see any mass uproar about Ayton, Trae or Luka either and none of those guys defense is on nba par. They're young it's not expected to be, but they were allow to play, and undoubtably played through some **** moments.
As for the Nets, I just dont see it. I dont see success, at least not yet. I see a team that likely wont win anytime soon, but likely wont be a bottom dweller either any time soon. I like their coach though. I also see disaster ensuing with Kyrie as well.
K-DOT wrote:But there's no reason not to instill culture and a system from day one
K-DOT wrote:Even by your logic, the worst case scenario for doing that is the same as the best case scenario for standing pat and just allowing players to do whatever. And I highly disagree with your point on Knox, we spent an entire year reinforcing his bad habits, even if he sees the writing on the wall, they're still that much harder to break even if he's trying to break them. It's like getting someone addicted to cigarettes and going, well sure it's bad for them now, but we can always get them off them, they can see the writing on the wall. Like, just don't get them addicted in the first place
K-DOT wrote:And you know as well as I do that I didn't mean bench RJ because his defense is worse than say, Bullock. You know what I mean is, if he's in a game and takes a play off, he needs to be held accountable.
K-DOT wrote:Doing what we did is the lazy way of rebuilding, and yeah it can work out, but why take the risk when there's really no reward? Like, you've given no reason not to do what I said, the best you can say is there's no difference, which isn't a reason not to do something
K-DOT wrote:malik959 wrote:Why do people demand to tank, but than complain about not running plays and bad rotations?
Jesus f*cking Christ on a cheesecake
Because we didn't want a tank, we wanted development. Those are different things. And Fiz isn't handling the development part particularly well, that's why we're complaining. Which you would have known had you actually read my post
I'm tired of explaining this every f*cking time it comes up
Clyde_Style wrote:K-DOT wrote:malik959 wrote:Why do people demand to tank, but than complain about not running plays and bad rotations?
Jesus f*cking Christ on a cheesecake
Because we didn't want a tank, we wanted development. Those are different things. And Fiz isn't handling the development part particularly well, that's why we're complaining. Which you would have known had you actually read my post
I'm tired of explaining this every f*cking time it comes up
Store please or GTFO
Thugger HBC wrote:In the period of our most recent drafts we've had wo different front offices with two different visions. Phil wanted a hybrid rebuild, with some youth, but also known established players to compete with. Melo D- Rose and Noah were on the same team establishes this.
KP was a good pick by Phil, Frank not so much, but I wouldnt close the book just yet. Phil pretty much whiffed on all his other selections whether 2nd rounder, undrafted, whatever. Overall he was subpar as a talent evaluator. Phil also forced a system on the team as well, and that didn't work out either.
Comparatively this regime has done decent with their building primarily drafting. Knox still has opportunity and RJ certainly has opportunity. Our 2nd round picks have been good as well as undrafted guys g-leaguers etc. We dont have high end talent yet, but there's no reason to think not a single one wouldnt develop into that, unless two years is all they should be given.
Imo, it makes no sense to compare what the Knicks are doing to other teams actions. We're clearly rebuilding and have all tools available. This shouldnt be rushed, but rather carefully executed no matter how long it takes.
Clyde_Style wrote:Thugger HBC wrote:In the period of our most recent drafts we've had wo different front offices with two different visions. Phil wanted a hybrid rebuild, with some youth, but also known established players to compete with. Melo D- Rose and Noah were on the same team establishes this.
KP was a good pick by Phil, Frank not so much, but I wouldnt close the book just yet. Phil pretty much whiffed on all his other selections whether 2nd rounder, undrafted, whatever. Overall he was subpar as a talent evaluator. Phil also forced a system on the team as well, and that didn't work out either.
Comparatively this regime has done decent with their building primarily drafting. Knox still has opportunity and RJ certainly has opportunity. Our 2nd round picks have been good as well as undrafted guys g-leaguers etc. We dont have high end talent yet, but there's no reason to think not a single one wouldnt develop into that, unless two years is all they should be given.
Imo, it makes no sense to compare what the Knicks are doing to other teams actions. We're clearly rebuilding and have all tools available. This shouldnt be rushed, but rather carefully executed no matter how long it takes.
Yeah, comparing the Phil Jackson Knicks to the Nets is way different than the Scott Perry Knicks. That's just two years and some of the time was spent undoing Phil's mistakes (and Mills THJr signing).
Thugger HBC wrote:K-DOT wrote:But there's no reason not to instill culture and a system from day one
I've agreed I'd like to see a system, but I have stated why there wasn't one that was instilled......the youngsters needed to play, pretty much unbridled and unfiltered. The same way Mitch was allowed to make silly fouls, sometimes just being reckless out there and learn through mistakes, Knox was given same opportunity, and should have been given that. The youth should be the priority, especially when the team has been given the keys to actually do a complete rebuild.
As I stated before, I don't think either of these two in particular will have those keys in similar fashion, they'll have guys who actually can hold down those spots when they botch it up, so that accountability should happened based on roster composition at minimumK-DOT wrote:Even by your logic, the worst case scenario for doing that is the same as the best case scenario for standing pat and just allowing players to do whatever. And I highly disagree with your point on Knox, we spent an entire year reinforcing his bad habits, even if he sees the writing on the wall, they're still that much harder to break even if he's trying to break them. It's like getting someone addicted to cigarettes and going, well sure it's bad for them now, but we can always get them off them, they can see the writing on the wall. Like, just don't get them addicted in the first place
Nah, the team let Knox in particular play as they should have. Now he has to play with purpose,while growing, but being a viable contributor as well.K-DOT wrote:And you know as well as I do that I didn't mean bench RJ because his defense is worse than say, Bullock. You know what I mean is, if he's in a game and takes a play off, he needs to be held accountable.
You don't expect a19 year old rookie to take plays off? You're in for a long season if you think otherwise. He's not gonna get benched for it either, nor should he.K-DOT wrote:Doing what we did is the lazy way of rebuilding, and yeah it can work out, but why take the risk when there's really no reward? Like, you've given no reason not to do what I said, the best you can say is there's no difference, which isn't a reason not to do something
The team tanked last year, it was blatant too. The reward was the worst record. They did their part. the lottery balls just didnt fall competely their way.
I seriously doubt the team tanks lke it did last season. I dont think the coaches nor the players will alow it. They have enough talent to win some games that they toss to the curb last year.
Fat Kat wrote:spree2kawhi wrote:Did anyone follow Frank's play in those friendly games?
Yep. Here are some highlights
Clyde_Style wrote:With the guys we signed plus Mitch, Frank and hopefully RJ if we don't hear chants of DEEEEE-FENSE! something is seriously wrong.
K-DOT wrote:Thugger HBC wrote:K-DOT wrote:But there's no reason not to instill culture and a system from day one
I've agreed I'd like to see a system, but I have stated why there wasn't one that was instilled......the youngsters needed to play, pretty much unbridled and unfiltered. The same way Mitch was allowed to make silly fouls, sometimes just being reckless out there and learn through mistakes, Knox was given same opportunity, and should have been given that. The youth should be the priority, especially when the team has been given the keys to actually do a complete rebuild.
As I stated before, I don't think either of these two in particular will have those keys in similar fashion, they'll have guys who actually can hold down those spots when they botch it up, so that accountability should happened based on roster composition at minimumK-DOT wrote:Even by your logic, the worst case scenario for doing that is the same as the best case scenario for standing pat and just allowing players to do whatever. And I highly disagree with your point on Knox, we spent an entire year reinforcing his bad habits, even if he sees the writing on the wall, they're still that much harder to break even if he's trying to break them. It's like getting someone addicted to cigarettes and going, well sure it's bad for them now, but we can always get them off them, they can see the writing on the wall. Like, just don't get them addicted in the first place
Nah, the team let Knox in particular play as they should have. Now he has to play with purpose,while growing, but being a viable contributor as well.K-DOT wrote:And you know as well as I do that I didn't mean bench RJ because his defense is worse than say, Bullock. You know what I mean is, if he's in a game and takes a play off, he needs to be held accountable.
You don't expect a19 year old rookie to take plays off? You're in for a long season if you think otherwise. He's not gonna get benched for it either, nor should he.K-DOT wrote:Doing what we did is the lazy way of rebuilding, and yeah it can work out, but why take the risk when there's really no reward? Like, you've given no reason not to do what I said, the best you can say is there's no difference, which isn't a reason not to do something
The team tanked last year, it was blatant too. The reward was the worst record. They did their part. the lottery balls just didnt fall competely their way.
I seriously doubt the team tanks lke it did last season. I dont think the coaches nor the players will alow it. They have enough talent to win some games that they toss to the curb last year.
This is just gonna keep coming back to a fundamental disagreement
You think it's okay to allow guys to do what they want and reinforce bad habits, cause they're just gonna naturally break them on their own in the future. I think we shouldn't reinforce those bad habits, so that when we're actually trying to win, we don't have to break them, they just won't be there
We need to be development first, not draft position first. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. And we should be active in developing our guys, not passive
Clyde_Style wrote:With the guys we signed plus Mitch, Frank and hopefully RJ if we don't hear chants of DEEEEE-FENSE! something is seriously wrong.
Thugger HBC wrote:K-DOT wrote:Thugger HBC wrote:
I've agreed I'd like to see a system, but I have stated why there wasn't one that was instilled......the youngsters needed to play, pretty much unbridled and unfiltered. The same way Mitch was allowed to make silly fouls, sometimes just being reckless out there and learn through mistakes, Knox was given same opportunity, and should have been given that. The youth should be the priority, especially when the team has been given the keys to actually do a complete rebuild.
As I stated before, I don't think either of these two in particular will have those keys in similar fashion, they'll have guys who actually can hold down those spots when they botch it up, so that accountability should happened based on roster composition at minimum
Nah, the team let Knox in particular play as they should have. Now he has to play with purpose,while growing, but being a viable contributor as well.
You don't expect a19 year old rookie to take plays off? You're in for a long season if you think otherwise. He's not gonna get benched for it either, nor should he.
The team tanked last year, it was blatant too. The reward was the worst record. They did their part. the lottery balls just didnt fall competely their way.
I seriously doubt the team tanks lke it did last season. I dont think the coaches nor the players will alow it. They have enough talent to win some games that they toss to the curb last year.
This is just gonna keep coming back to a fundamental disagreement
You think it's okay to allow guys to do what they want and reinforce bad habits, cause they're just gonna naturally break them on their own in the future. I think we shouldn't reinforce those bad habits, so that when we're actually trying to win, we don't have to break them, they just won't be there
We need to be development first, not draft position first. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. And we should be active in developing our guys, not passive
I don't have an issue with a system being in place. I do have an issue that such system prevents the youth from playing maximum minutes. I want the youth to play regardless, and let them learn while they play.
And btw, Fiz does have a system. He wants a certain style of play. The team played it pretty much all last year.
K-DOT wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:With the guys we signed plus Mitch, Frank and hopefully RJ if we don't hear chants of DEEEEE-FENSE! something is seriously wrong.
I predict we're bottom 5 defense again. At best, bottom 10
So, there will be chants, but it'll be more like a plea than anything
Clyde_Style wrote:K-DOT wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:With the guys we signed plus Mitch, Frank and hopefully RJ if we don't hear chants of DEEEEE-FENSE! something is seriously wrong.
I predict we're bottom 5 defense again. At best, bottom 10
So, there will be chants, but it'll be more like a plea than anything
You seem to know the future. I don't. Just hoping like the eternal homer that I am.