Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild

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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#521 » by Andre Roberstan » Thu Aug 8, 2019 12:37 am

BigRedDog wrote:
Andre Roberstan wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:Would you guys be interested in this deal?

Charlotte gets: Chris Paul(3/$124m), Steven Adams (2/$53m), Danilo Gallinari (1/$22.6m)

OKC gets: Nic Batum (2/$52m), Cody Zeller (2/$30m), Bismayck Biyombo (1/$17m), Marvin Williams (1/$15m) MKG (1/$13m), 1st round pick in 2020


Charlotte benefits: Becomes better team...

OKC benefits: First Round pick, Saves $2m in Year 1, Saves $26m in Year 2, Saves $44m in Year 3. Also improves their own draft pick this year.

Beyond that these are also some pretty useful contracts to try to flip in trades of your own. Marv is still a good defender/shooter and should be a trade deadline target for a contender or quasi-contender. Zeller perphaps could fetch something in a trade a year from now. The Biyombo/MKG deals are expiring this year and the Batum deal is a monster expiring next year.


That is not near enough compensation for that much bad money. And if you have to put "improves their draft pick" as a selling point, the value's usually not there.


I don't really see it that way ... The Hornets are the one taking on the money in this scenario...


Gallo is on a $22m expiring deal and He's still a very good player but he's aging and injury prone. A 2020 CHA mid 1st round pick (with potential to be a lot higher if CP3 gets hurt) is fair value for him... no one is giving up a lotto pick for Gallo on an expiring deal... some teams may be willing to give up a late 1st round pick for sure as he could help a contender...anyway... Gallinari $22.6m (expiring) for Biyombo $17m (expiring) + 2020 CHA First rRound pick is relatively fair, if not advantage OKC (if you are not going to try to compete this year).

Then there's Steven Adams 2/$53m deal that you're essentially trading for 2/$52m Nic Batum... obviously that's a big edge to Charlotte... no question. Batum's only value is as an expiring deal next year... he could be a low end playoff rotation piece but realistically he can't really help anyone.


So all that's left is... Chris Paul who was still a good player last year, albeit a far lesser one than in his prime... who realistically career could fall off a cliff at any minute.. would you rather have his deal (3/$124m) or would you rather have a still semi-useful and tradeable Cody Zeller for (2/$30m), a barely useful Michael Kidd Gilchrist (1/$13, expiring), and a still useful and clearly tradeable Marvin Williams (1/$15m)?

You'd be able to get something for Marvin most likely... prob a 2nd rounder... or perhaps a late 1st rounder if youre willing to eat a little 2020 salary....the same perhaps with zeller a year from now (maybe) when he's expiring... and possibly for MKG this year (but i doubt it).

And get out from under an albatross deal while you're absolutely loaded with draft picks and in good shape to rebuild.


THere's really no point in Charlotte trying to rebuild IMO because they dont have enough assets. They're prob better off swapping their expirings for guys and trying to shoot for 45 wins.


Honestly, that trade is probably about as fair as it gets for both sides. Charlotte fans don't want that deal either. They prefer to rebuild. CP3 won't be easy to move if his play declines, and nearly impossible to move if he gets injured again. You guys are in much better shape to rebuild than we are, why not just commit to it?

I posted i thought you guys were going to be much better than most think this year and people here seemed lukewarm about wanting to win games lol..


Honestly I'd rather still have CP3/Adams/Gallo than what's coming back. The point is fair re: Thunder being better than we hope, but I think they can do better dealing each one individually than dumping all of them and getting literally every non-rookie/min Charlotte contract back.

Not that I think there's no deal to be done between the two teams, but I think any deal is going to be smaller.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#522 » by BigRedDog » Thu Aug 8, 2019 12:47 am

Andre Roberstan wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Andre Roberstan wrote:
That is not near enough compensation for that much bad money. And if you have to put "improves their draft pick" as a selling point, the value's usually not there.


I don't really see it that way ... The Hornets are the one taking on the money in this scenario...


Gallo is on a $22m expiring deal and He's still a very good player but he's aging and injury prone. A 2020 CHA mid 1st round pick (with potential to be a lot higher if CP3 gets hurt) is fair value for him... no one is giving up a lotto pick for Gallo on an expiring deal... some teams may be willing to give up a late 1st round pick for sure as he could help a contender...anyway... Gallinari $22.6m (expiring) for Biyombo $17m (expiring) + 2020 CHA First rRound pick is relatively fair, if not advantage OKC (if you are not going to try to compete this year).

Then there's Steven Adams 2/$53m deal that you're essentially trading for 2/$52m Nic Batum... obviously that's a big edge to Charlotte... no question. Batum's only value is as an expiring deal next year... he could be a low end playoff rotation piece but realistically he can't really help anyone.


So all that's left is... Chris Paul who was still a good player last year, albeit a far lesser one than in his prime... who realistically career could fall off a cliff at any minute.. would you rather have his deal (3/$124m) or would you rather have a still semi-useful and tradeable Cody Zeller for (2/$30m), a barely useful Michael Kidd Gilchrist (1/$13, expiring), and a still useful and clearly tradeable Marvin Williams (1/$15m)?

You'd be able to get something for Marvin most likely... prob a 2nd rounder... or perhaps a late 1st rounder if youre willing to eat a little 2020 salary....the same perhaps with zeller a year from now (maybe) when he's expiring... and possibly for MKG this year (but i doubt it).

And get out from under an albatross deal while you're absolutely loaded with draft picks and in good shape to rebuild.


THere's really no point in Charlotte trying to rebuild IMO because they dont have enough assets. They're prob better off swapping their expirings for guys and trying to shoot for 45 wins.


Honestly, that trade is probably about as fair as it gets for both sides. Charlotte fans don't want that deal either. They prefer to rebuild. CP3 won't be easy to move if his play declines, and nearly impossible to move if he gets injured again. You guys are in much better shape to rebuild than we are, why not just commit to it?

I posted i thought you guys were going to be much better than most think this year and people here seemed lukewarm about wanting to win games lol..


Honestly I'd rather still have CP3/Adams/Gallo than what's coming back. The point is fair re: Thunder being better than we hope, but I think they can do better dealing each one individually than dumping all of them and getting literally every non-rookie/min Charlotte contract back.

Not that I think there's no deal to be done between the two teams, but I think any deal is going to be smaller.



Fair enough. I mean look at our perspective. If we just "stand pat" we can clearly end up with a top 5 draft choice (probably top 3)..under team control for the next 7 years... with another cheap pick or two from trading our semi useful expirings ourselves...and salary cap space to sign someone pretty good (or a collective group of delon wright type guys)...

So just to get us to do anything there has to be some incentive.just .turning us into a 36 game winner isnt gonna cut it...

A year from now CP3 will be even more upside down in his deal... Adams will be worht a little less... and Gallo wont be worth anything.... meanwhile MKG/Biyombo/Marv expire completely and all youve gto left is a semi-movable zeller and a heck of a expiring deal in batum if you wanted to o try to fish for a big matching salary.

Honestly, we're probably just better off keeping hte package ourselves and keeping that top 5 implied draft pick... but i wouldnt mind watching us be comeptitive for a year or two lol
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#523 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:02 am

Adams is not going to be worth less next year.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#524 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:05 am

slick_watts wrote:i'd just try and move gallo for a 1st this year sometime attached to a crap player (bazemore?) and adams for a 1st next year sometime attached to a crap player (batum?) and have two 1sts instead of one 1st and then chris paul has one more year left or is already gone in a trade and i don't have to look at cody zeller's face in a thunder uniform thank you very much.


exactly what I would do/hope for. A bit more risky because of Gallo and CP3 health (and if a team would be willing to trade for CP3) but it's by far the best option to get the most value in return
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#525 » by Dadouv47 » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:09 am

ThunderBolt wrote:Adams is not going to be worth less next year.


100%
But depending on teams performance he could be worth more at the trade deadline (for example if a team like Boston is playing very well) than next offseason.
Still not sure what's Presti plan with Adams though
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#526 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Aug 8, 2019 11:30 pm

According to Allen, OKC brought him in for an interview. The defensive specialist was intrigued by the potential of a homecoming of sorts. Allen finished his college career at Oklahoma State, where he helped lead the Cowboys to the 2004 Final Four.

“I was so excited to go like, ‘Oh I got an interview, I’m finna go to Oklahoma,” Allen told Vernon.


Allen said the Thunder signed Thabo Sefolosha instead of him, but Allen became a free agent the year after Sefolosha signed a four-year contract extension with OKC. OKC traded for Sefolosha in February 2009, when Allen was in the first season of a two-year contract extension with the Celtics.

Regardless, the personal rivalry had been formed. Russell Westbrook became the specific target of Allen’s revenge.


“Every time I would see them, I would have to go to the most cockiest guy, the most flamboyant guy that’s ready to ride for the team, which was him,” Allen said. “KD (Kevin Durant) was always quiet. … So I would always mess with (Westbrook). We’d never say anything to each other, but we’d know it’s a real clash.

“And I told him the other day, I said , ‘Man, the only reason I went that hard was because (Thunder general manager) Sam Presti didn’t sign me.’ That’s facts,” Allen said.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#528 » by Old Man Game » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:30 pm

Sometimes it feels like City leaders are running out of ideas of what to do with maps money. Streets are pot holed to hell and the city bus system is borderline unusable but sure let's dump more money into an arena.

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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#529 » by PerkinsFor3 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:12 am

Dn4sty wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:I want a full rebuild so I'm fine with his statement. I hope it's a 3 year (and not 5-6 years) full rebuild while developing SGA and maybe keeping Adams as our main pieces for the future with some of the 6 guys we will draft in the first round, then we could trade some future assets to improve our roster.

EDIT : still hope we can trade this trade deadline or next offseason for a good prospect to develop as well but they are really expensive :(


I asked a similar question regarding trading for another young player to develop and play next to Shai. We basically came up with

Kevin Knox
Anfernee Simons
DSJ
Dejounte Murray
Derrick White
Jonathan Isaac
Ntilikina
Rodions Kurucs

Ferguson
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#530 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:07 am

PerkinsFor3 wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:I want a full rebuild so I'm fine with his statement. I hope it's a 3 year (and not 5-6 years) full rebuild while developing SGA and maybe keeping Adams as our main pieces for the future with some of the 6 guys we will draft in the first round, then we could trade some future assets to improve our roster.

EDIT : still hope we can trade this trade deadline or next offseason for a good prospect to develop as well but they are really expensive :(


I asked a similar question regarding trading for another young player to develop and play next to Shai. We basically came up with

Kevin Knox
Anfernee Simons
DSJ
Dejounte Murray
Derrick White
Jonathan Isaac
Ntilikina
Rodions Kurucs

Ferguson

At times Ferguson has shown potential to be a good defender and capable three point shooter. I would be happy if he could do those two things consistently, especially at higher volume three point shooting. Some of his other offensive limitations are kind and of disappointing considering his athleticism. If we could blend Diallo and Ferguson into one player then we might have something.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#531 » by thor19 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:16 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
PerkinsFor3 wrote:
Dn4sty wrote:
I asked a similar question regarding trading for another young player to develop and play next to Shai. We basically came up with

Kevin Knox
Anfernee Simons
DSJ
Dejounte Murray
Derrick White
Jonathan Isaac
Ntilikina
Rodions Kurucs

Ferguson

At times Ferguson has shown potential to be a good defender and capable three point shooter. I would be happy if he could do those two things consistently, especially at higher volume three point shooting. Some of his other offensive limitations are kind and of disappointing considering his athleticism. If we could blend Diallo and Ferguson into one player then we might have something.


I know he dont fit the type of player Presti sign but do you sign Marquese Chriss he is only 22
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#532 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:00 pm

thor19 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
PerkinsFor3 wrote:Ferguson

At times Ferguson has shown potential to be a good defender and capable three point shooter. I would be happy if he could do those two things consistently, especially at higher volume three point shooting. Some of his other offensive limitations are kind and of disappointing considering his athleticism. If we could blend Diallo and Ferguson into one player then we might have something.


I know he dont fit the type of player Presti sign but do you sign Marquese Chriss he is only 22

God I hope not. He’s not shown anything that makes me think he can bean nba rotation player.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#533 » by thor19 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:45 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
thor19 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:At times Ferguson has shown potential to be a good defender and capable three point shooter. I would be happy if he could do those two things consistently, especially at higher volume three point shooting. Some of his other offensive limitations are kind and of disappointing considering his athleticism. If we could blend Diallo and Ferguson into one player then we might have something.


I know he dont fit the type of player Presti sign but do you sign Marquese Chriss he is only 22

God I hope not. He’s not shown anything that makes me think he can bean nba rotation player.

I dont like him, he only figth in games and dont look like he want to give some effort, the only good thing is that he is young
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#534 » by PerkinsFor3 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:52 am

Chriss is a more horrible version of the horrible Terrence Jones.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#535 » by Old Man Game » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:27 am

No one wants to talk schedule release? For my part I'll say I'm glad not to have so many nationally televised games. Those games always get over later, oftentimes start later and are mostly (other than the Sunday afternoon variety) a pain in the ass. So good riddance.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#536 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:47 am

Old Man Game wrote:No one wants to talk schedule release? For my part I'll say I'm glad not to have so many nationally televised games. Those games always get over later, oftentimes start later and are mostly (other than the Sunday afternoon variety) a pain in the ass. So good riddance.


viewtopic.php?f=334&t=1882161

I agree although the Christmas day game was nice exposure.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#537 » by Old Man Game » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:43 pm

I saw that we signed Justin Patton and at first I was like what are you doing Presti. But then I remembered oh yeah we're trying to suck so this move actually makes a ton of sense. Just a totally different mindset we have to get used to.

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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#538 » by oreojenkins » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:51 pm

Justin Patton was a good prospect 2 years ago. He's just never been healthy. Smart dice roll IMO.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#539 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:19 pm

How many times has he broke his foot?
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread Part Deux: Rebuild 

Post#540 » by thor19 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:07 pm

maybe we trade adams and noel start or we send noel with cp3 or gallo or roberson in atrade

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