Sam Vecenie's Top 25 players aged 23 and under.

[BoogieTime]

To be fair, the premise wasn't the same. It was best players in 5 years, so it included a lot of guys who are over 23 right now and even guys still not drafted (Wiseman #1 prospect next year). If you get rid of those, I think Bagley was 19th and Fox 8th. Still low for Bagley IMO, but Bagley is probably not going to be at his peak in 5 years, so the two lists ranked them closer than you think.

For example, this list thinks that Bagley is going to be a better player than Markkanen, M. Turner, D. Russell and J. Murray. The other list thinks that those 4 guys, at 27-28 years old, will be better than 25 years old Bagley. The two things can be true and actually make sense as most players peak around 28.

This list is way better though. I think some guys should go down/up a couple of spots, but I don't think there's anything dumb.

Bro we saw a different list. Somehow, Bagley was in the late 30s.. I mean, what the hell was that?

No we didn't see a different list. Like I said, the other list was best player in 5 years (in 2024-2025 and nothing else), not best player 23 and under. I think Bagley is probably going to be the 35-20th player in 5 years, but he wasn't listed 39th compared to 11th here, considering in the other list he was in competition with guys like Giannis, Jokic, Harden, Curry, etc. Plus guys who will be in their prime in 5 years, even though they will probably have a worst career than him.

You just can't directly compare the two rankings. Fox was basically considered about the same in both lists if you only look at players 23 and under (8th vs 6th).

Well, in any event, even if they weren’t the same exact listings, this is a lot more respectful to Bagley. Anyone who has Gary Harris and Co. ahead of Marvin I collectively put on my garbage list, which is nbcsports

[Nazrmohamed]

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

Yeah. But they have him at number 1. I agree you can have an opinion on his and even project but number 1? I dont even think he projects that high and would probably dispute this idea that he is some once per generation player. I guess we'll see but hes a rim attacker whose 6'7 and cant shoot. The shooting part I'm not concerned with but itll take a couple years. He'll be good, no doubt. I just have an issue with the number 1 projection, especially when looking at this list.

I wonder if in Lebron’s rookie year people made such arguments? If so those arguments probably aged quite quickly like this one no doubt will.

I just dont think Zion is anywhere near as good a prospect as Lebron was.

[sfernald]

Yeah. But they have him at number 1. I agree you can have an opinion on his and even project but number 1? I dont even think he projects that high and would probably dispute this idea that he is some once per generation player. I guess we'll see but hes a rim attacker whose 6'7 and cant shoot. The shooting part I'm not concerned with but itll take a couple years. He'll be good, no doubt. I just have an issue with the number 1 projection, especially when looking at this list.

I wonder if in Lebron’s rookie year people made such arguments? If so those arguments probably aged quite quickly like this one no doubt will.

I just dont think Zion is anywhere near as good a prospect as Lebron was.

Well there you go. He’s the best prospect since Lebron and there’s good reason for that.

[Simmons25]

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

Yeah. But they have him at number 1. I agree you can have an opinion on his and even project but number 1? I dont even think he projects that high and would probably dispute this idea that he is some once per generation player. I guess we'll see but hes a rim attacker whose 6'7 and cant shoot. The shooting part I'm not concerned with but itll take a couple years. He'll be good, no doubt. I just have an issue with the number 1 projection, especially when looking at this list.

I wonder if in Lebron’s rookie year people made such arguments? If so those arguments probably aged quite quickly like this one no doubt will.

LOL Zion is not Lebron coming into this league. Not even close. Lebron was a man coming in and already professional. Zion looks like he is more excited about eating at Popeye's.

But yes that is my exact point. Those arguments will age WHEN he starts playing... and that's when he can maybe be ranked. Up until now he is a kid whose body broke down 15 mins into a summer league game because he turned up out of shape.

[notericjr]

I feel like Ben should be #1 considering he's only 1 of a handful listed that are actually key components to a championship contending team and has been that important since his rookie season.

he's also one of only 2 all stars in that list, with the other all star being d'angelo russell whom ben single handedly shut down in the playoffs this past season.

after ben, dlo, donovan and maybe murray, the rest of these dudes are just young players on bad teams that haven't achieved anything of note yet and/or just 3rd/4th options and are of very little significance unless proven otherwise. the 'yeah man, that guy is a fun young player to watch' type that are in teams fighting for a 30-52 record

[wolfram]

I feel like Ben should be #1 considering he's only 1 of a handful listed that are actually key components to a championship contending team and has been that important since his rookie season.

he's also one of only 2 all stars in that list, with the other all star being d'angelo russell whom ben single handedly shut down in the playoffs this past season.

after ben, dlo, donovan and maybe murray, the rest of these dudes are just young players on bad teams that haven't achieved anything of note yet and/or just 3rd/4th options and are of very little significance unless proven otherwise. the 'yeah man, that guy is a fun young player to watch' type that are in teams fighting for a 30-52 record

Lol that's not how this works. Best players get drafted by the worst teams atm. It takes luck that best players land on good teams. Look at Lebron and how his NBA career started.

[LloydFree]

It's a dead point in the summer, forgive me. Checkout Sam on twitter @Sam_Vecenie.

Future projection was taken into account, it is not for next season only.

25) MIA - Bam Adebayo

24) ATL - Kevin Huerter

23) CHI - Wendell Carter, Jr.

22) BOS - Jaylen Brown

21) NOP – Brandon Ingram

20) NOP – Lonzo Ball

19) OKC - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

18) NYK - RJ Barrett

17) MEM – Ja Morant

16) CHI - Lauri Markkanen

15) DEN – Jamal Murray

14) ATL – John Collins

13) GSW - D'Angelo Russell

12) IND - Myles Turner

11) SAC - Marvin Bagley III

10) MEM - Jaren Jackson Jr.

9) BOS - Jayson Tatum

8) PHX - DeAndre Ayton

7) ATL – Trae Young

6) SAC - De'Aaron Fox

5) UTA – Donovan Mitchell

4) PHX – Devin Booker

3) PHI – Ben Simmons

2) DAL – Luka Dončić

1) NOP – Zion Williamson

Honorable Mentions were Mitchell Robinson, Jarrett Allen, and Domantas Sabonis.

Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr should be significantly higher. Zion may be very good player, but I think he's going to disappoint those that think he is going to be a transformational star.

[celtics543]

Well, with Fox at 6 and Bagley at 11 it’s more credible (what was that garbage Fox at 14, Bagley at 39 the other day).

I’d still quibble with the list. What has Booker shown in terms of winning? Simmons is a flawed player. Tatum ISO SF, better defending/efficient Rudy Gay

Is a better defending and more efficient version of Rudy Gay not an all star player? I mean that was basically the knock on Gay and he was still a pretty solid player.

[kio80]

I feel like Ben should be #1 considering he's only 1 of a handful listed that are actually key components to a championship contending team and has been that important since his rookie season.

he's also one of only 2 all stars in that list, with the other all star being d'angelo russell whom ben single handedly shut down in the playoffs this past season.

after ben, dlo, donovan and maybe murray, the rest of these dudes are just young players on bad teams that haven't achieved anything of note yet and/or just 3rd/4th options and are of very little significance unless proven otherwise. the 'yeah man, that guy is a fun young player to watch' type that are in teams fighting for a 30-52 record

Lol that's not how this works. Best players get drafted by the worst teams atm. It takes luck that best players land on good teams. Look at Lebron and how his NBA career started.

Philly was bad before they drafted simmons.
Don’t understand what point are you trying to make.


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[Promezclan]

I feel like Ben should be #1 considering he's only 1 of a handful listed that are actually key components to a championship contending team and has been that important since his rookie season.

he's also one of only 2 all stars in that list, with the other all star being d'angelo russell whom ben single handedly shut down in the playoffs this past season.

after ben, dlo, donovan and maybe murray, the rest of these dudes are just young players on bad teams that haven't achieved anything of note yet and/or just 3rd/4th options and are of very little significance unless proven otherwise. the 'yeah man, that guy is a fun young player to watch' type that are in teams fighting for a 30-52 record

Lol that's not how this works. Best players get drafted by the worst teams atm. It takes luck that best players land on good teams. Look at Lebron and how his NBA career started.

Philly was bad before they drafted simmons.
Don’t understand what point are you trying to make.


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That Joel Embiid is a lot better than Ben Simmons?

[kio80]

Lol that's not how this works. Best players get drafted by the worst teams atm. It takes luck that best players land on good teams. Look at Lebron and how his NBA career started.

Philly was bad before they drafted simmons.
Don’t understand what point are you trying to make.


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That Joel Embiid is a lot better than Ben Simmons?

Very random reply, are you delusional because GS is not a contender anymore?


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[ThunderBolt]

I really hate these kind of lists. You just can't put players who have never played a game above good solid players who have been in the year a or more.

[ellobo]

Sam Vercenie is a weenie

There is a guy who is an All star, led his team to the finals being overlooked by a guy who hasnt played against guys who get paid to play the game of Basketball yet.

Zion played in the NCAA, so the bolded statement is not accurate ;-).

[kio80]

Sam Vercenie is a weenie

There is a guy who is an All star, led his team to the finals being overlooked by a guy who hasnt played against guys who get paid to play the game of Basketball yet.

Zion played in the NCAA, so the bolded statement is not accurate .

Are you implying that there’s a “Webber”
scandal going on in duke that we do not know of yet?


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[Promezclan]

Philly was bad before they drafted simmons.
Don’t understand what point are you trying to make.


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That Joel Embiid is a lot better than Ben Simmons?

Very random reply, are you delusional because GS is not a contender anymore?


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Delusional? So you disagree that Embiid is better?

And it's hardly random. If your whole theory is based on team success, it's very relevant who's on that team. Harrison Barnes and Embiid are not an equivalent "supporting" cast.

[kio80]

That Joel Embiid is a lot better than Ben Simmons?

Very random reply, are you delusional because GS is not a contender anymore?


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Delusional? So you disagree that Embiid is better?

And it's hardly random. If your whole theory is based on team success, it's very relevant who's on that team. Harrison Barnes and Embiid are not an equivalent "supporting" cast.

We are taking about players the age of 23 or under.
Why don’t you mention Iverson? Or better yet, Jordan?
Embiid hardly played any games in the regular season 2018


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[Crizzle]

It's a dead point in the summer, forgive me. Checkout Sam on twitter @Sam_Vecenie.

Future projection was taken into account, it is not for next season only.

25) MIA - Bam Adebayo

24) ATL - Kevin Huerter

23) CHI - Wendell Carter, Jr.

22) BOS - Jaylen Brown

21) NOP – Brandon Ingram

20) NOP – Lonzo Ball

19) OKC - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

18) NYK - RJ Barrett

17) MEM – Ja Morant

16) CHI - Lauri Markkanen

15) DEN – Jamal Murray

14) ATL – John Collins

13) GSW - D'Angelo Russell

12) IND - Myles Turner

11) SAC - Marvin Bagley III

10) MEM - Jaren Jackson Jr.

9) BOS - Jayson Tatum

8) PHX - DeAndre Ayton

7) ATL – Trae Young

6) SAC - De'Aaron Fox

5) UTA – Donovan Mitchell

4) PHX – Devin Booker

3) PHI – Ben Simmons

2) DAL – Luka Dončić

1) NOP – Zion Williamson

Honorable Mentions were Mitchell Robinson, Jarrett Allen, and Domantas Sabonis.

Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr should be significantly higher. Zion may be very good player, but I think he's going to disappoint those that think he is going to be a transformational star.

i like jjj better than ayton and young personally, but morant hasnt played a game yet and dont think he has a case for being higher.

[LloydFree]

It's a dead point in the summer, forgive me. Checkout Sam on twitter @Sam_Vecenie.

Future projection was taken into account, it is not for next season only.

25) MIA - Bam Adebayo

24) ATL - Kevin Huerter

23) CHI - Wendell Carter, Jr.

22) BOS - Jaylen Brown

21) NOP – Brandon Ingram

20) NOP – Lonzo Ball

19) OKC - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

18) NYK - RJ Barrett

17) MEM – Ja Morant

16) CHI - Lauri Markkanen

15) DEN – Jamal Murray

14) ATL – John Collins

13) GSW - D'Angelo Russell

12) IND - Myles Turner

11) SAC - Marvin Bagley III

10) MEM - Jaren Jackson Jr.

9) BOS - Jayson Tatum

8) PHX - DeAndre Ayton

7) ATL – Trae Young

6) SAC - De'Aaron Fox

5) UTA – Donovan Mitchell

4) PHX – Devin Booker

3) PHI – Ben Simmons

2) DAL – Luka Dončić

1) NOP – Zion Williamson

Honorable Mentions were Mitchell Robinson, Jarrett Allen, and Domantas Sabonis.

Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr should be significantly higher. Zion may be very good player, but I think he's going to disappoint those that think he is going to be a transformational star.

i like jjj better than ayton and young personally, but morant hasnt played a game yet and dont think he has a case for being higher.

Zion hasn't played a game either.

[Crizzle]

Ja Morant and Jaren Jackson Jr should be significantly higher. Zion may be very good player, but I think he's going to disappoint those that think he is going to be a transformational star.

i like jjj better than ayton and young personally, but morant hasnt played a game yet and dont think he has a case for being higher.

Zion hasn't played a game either.

i honestly dont like any of the rookies being on the list. should of clarified. just didnt want to repeat what has already been mentioned a couple times

[moistnessfiscal]

If Allen is part of the HMs, then might as well include-Winslow, Isaac, OG and Shamet