Packers 2020 Offseason Thread - Packers Talking Extension with Aaron Jones

[Kerb Hohl]

Most definitely he is THE problem. You can reference his TD:INT ratio, but I know you are a skilled enough fan to see the drive killing plays where he takes sacks, he extends plays that result in holding, and he throws the ball where no one has a chance to make the catch.

I understand this is a very unconventional opinion but I see what I see, and the rest of you will too if Rodgers doesn't grow next year.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Rodgers has taken a turn in his career due to age or whatever but these are the worst takes ever for one reason:

Go out on a tougher limb than basically saying, "if we don't win the Super Bowl, I'm right." Because that's basically what you've set up here.

I'm not understanding your point, so maybe you aren't understanding mine. Let me try again, Rodgers is an ELITE TALENT, particularly with regard to TD:INT ratio. I am saying despite this fact, he is holding this team back and we had a 13-3 record in spite of him.

I don't know how much further of a limb I can got out on than that. Doesn't bother me if other people don't see it yet, but we should have either gone the route of Tennessee or San Fran a year ago, or Rodgers should have bought into the system, which to even the most casual of fans, they seem to see he has not.

I don't know, the team went 13-3 and was a game away from the Super Bowl (in spite of the quarterback, apparently) so the problem is that "you will too if Rodgers doesn't grow next year" means that the Packers could once again win 13 games and nearly win the Super Bowl but you'd be right that the Hall of Fame QB is bad and holding the team back.

[M-C-G]

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Rodgers has taken a turn in his career due to age or whatever but these are the worst takes ever for one reason:

Go out on a tougher limb than basically saying, "if we don't win the Super Bowl, I'm right." Because that's basically what you've set up here.

I'm not understanding your point, so maybe you aren't understanding mine. Let me try again, Rodgers is an ELITE TALENT, particularly with regard to TD:INT ratio. I am saying despite this fact, he is holding this team back and we had a 13-3 record in spite of him.

I don't know how much further of a limb I can got out on than that. Doesn't bother me if other people don't see it yet, but we should have either gone the route of Tennessee or San Fran a year ago, or Rodgers should have bought into the system, which to even the most casual of fans, they seem to see he has not.

I don't know, the team went 13-3 and was a game away from the Super Bowl (in spite of the quarterback, apparently) so the problem is that "you will too if Rodgers doesn't grow next year" means that the Packers could once again win 13 games and nearly win the Super Bowl but you'd be right that the Hall of Fame QB is bad and holding the team back.

Again, I have no beef with people that don't agree with me, just to start there, but I think 9 times out of 10, this team, this year is much more an 8-8 team unless Rodgers gets better or we become a running first team more than we have ever been.

I get if people disagree, but the reason not many felt great about a 13-3 year is because deep down we all felt this wasn't representative of our play on the field, we got lucky, a lot, in my opinion. So if you think we improve next season we got 14-2 I just kind of reject that notion. We need to improve substantially to hit 13 wins again IMO.

[Kerb Hohl]

I'm not understanding your point, so maybe you aren't understanding mine. Let me try again, Rodgers is an ELITE TALENT, particularly with regard to TD:INT ratio. I am saying despite this fact, he is holding this team back and we had a 13-3 record in spite of him.

I don't know how much further of a limb I can got out on than that. Doesn't bother me if other people don't see it yet, but we should have either gone the route of Tennessee or San Fran a year ago, or Rodgers should have bought into the system, which to even the most casual of fans, they seem to see he has not.

I don't know, the team went 13-3 and was a game away from the Super Bowl (in spite of the quarterback, apparently) so the problem is that "you will too if Rodgers doesn't grow next year" means that the Packers could once again win 13 games and nearly win the Super Bowl but you'd be right that the Hall of Fame QB is bad and holding the team back.

Again, I have no beef with people that don't agree with me, just to start there, but I think 9 times out of 10, this team, this year is much more an 8-8 team unless Rodgers gets better or we become a running first team more than we have ever been.

I get if people disagree, but the reason not many felt great about a 13-3 year is because deep down we all felt this wasn't representative of our play on the field, we got lucky, a lot, in my opinion. So if you think we improve next season we got 14-2 I just kind of reject that notion. We need to improve substantially to hit 13 wins again IMO.

Sure, the team got lucky this year.

But call me crazy, I'd assign the odds of winning a Super Bowl in this order:

1. Rodgers plays as well as 2019 but another year of Gute drafting and building gets a better supporting cast and we win it all.
2. Rodgers "gets it" in LaFleur's system and has one more Godgers year and wins it all.
3. Team plays similarly (with luck) to 2019 with Rodgers and 13-3 record, lucks out and other teams play crappy in the playoffs handing us a Super Bowl.

4-99. Some other similar iterations

100. Packers win Super Bowl with a rookie QB but $20 million extra to play with in free agency.

I'm not against some sort of crazy pivot but it very likely won't happen and the odds are very high that we'd just be in the tank for 5 years.

[M-C-G]

I don't know, the team went 13-3 and was a game away from the Super Bowl (in spite of the quarterback, apparently) so the problem is that "you will too if Rodgers doesn't grow next year" means that the Packers could once again win 13 games and nearly win the Super Bowl but you'd be right that the Hall of Fame QB is bad and holding the team back.

Again, I have no beef with people that don't agree with me, just to start there, but I think 9 times out of 10, this team, this year is much more an 8-8 team unless Rodgers gets better or we become a running first team more than we have ever been.

I get if people disagree, but the reason not many felt great about a 13-3 year is because deep down we all felt this wasn't representative of our play on the field, we got lucky, a lot, in my opinion. So if you think we improve next season we got 14-2 I just kind of reject that notion. We need to improve substantially to hit 13 wins again IMO.

Sure, the team got lucky this year.

But call me crazy, I'd assign the odds of winning a Super Bowl in this order:

1. Team plays similarly (with luck) to 2019 with Rodgers and 13-3 record, lucks out and other teams play crappy in the playoffs handing us a Super Bowl.
2. Rodgers "gets it" in LaFleur's system and has one more Godgers year and wins it all.
3. Rodgers plays as well as 2019 but another year of Gute drafting and building gets a better supporting cast and we win it all.

4-99. Some other similar iterations

100. Packers win Super Bowl with a rookie QB but $20 million extra to play with in free agency.

It is probably a conversation for another day, but I am in a minority that David Carr and two high picks put this team in the same or better position than we are currently in. I know this will be laughable for some, but just look at Tannehill taking that Titans team as far as he did because he executed the offense, they focused on the run and defense.

It is weird to think about that with a guy like Rodgers, but to me, I just think the Godgers window is closed and he has become so risk adverse he holds the offense back, in the case of the game yesterday, he put our defense on the field way too often and until he decided to take some risk, our offense was frankly embarrassing.

Our best bet at winning next year is to become a running team and add a playmaker to the offense that can change field position after the catch

[jimmybones]

I don't understand how you can say the 9ers "aren't that good". They're the most complete team in the league from the players to the GM

I'm saying this is not your prototypical #1 seed juggernaut. That is not the 90s Cowboys or 49ers, they're just not. Being the best in the conference this year, to me, is an indictment on the conference and not an indication they are some force. They have an elite front 7 and TE but the rest is a lot of "meh." A lot of what happened yesterday was the Packers playing like ass and not overly impressive things done by them.

[Ayt]

Read on Twitter

Jesus Effing Christmas

This is some bull, at least for this season, given Rodgers couldn't sustain a drive, couldn't hang on to the football, and our punter apparently couldn't punt.

Rodgers is the most overpaid player in the league, and it showed. He also, as far as I am concerned doesn't seem to follow the playcalls and/or know the playbook as well as I would expect, because I can not figure out why he is just literally not seeing guys that are open on the routes and/or taking sacks the way he takes them.

He is THE problem with this team right now. I was mocked for suggesting trading him a little over a year ago, and I am pretty sure at least half those that mocked me would go back in time and trade him, they see it too. He is THE problem

[raysbookclub]

Speed at linebacker has to be the priority. San Fran was so much faster than us it was ridiculous. As others have said this has been a weakness of ours for years.

You literally could have said the same thing after the 2012 playoff debacle when Kap went off on us.

Or you could have said it after the 2014 NFC Championship loss to Seattle.

Or after the 2016 NFC Championship loss to Atlanta.

There is no hiding an AJ Hawk, Jake Ryan, or Blake Martinez against good teams and Martinez was better than the losers who played next to him like Morrison last year and Goodson this season.

Slow inside linebackers and poor defense have been a Packers calling card for about a decade now.

Gutey needs to rectify the situation just like he did at outside linebacker last offseason or we'll be saying the same things about the D heading into 2021.

Actually ILB wasn’t a problem in the post-bye 2014 season or in the 2014 playoffs—until about the 4:00 mark in the fourth quarter of the NFCC game. That was because they moved Clay there during the bye, and it turned an ok defense into a top defense.

Multiple reasons we lost the NFCC—the onside kick, running to run the clock instead of passing, MM maybe not realizing Sherman was hurt, Haha oddly letting up and not contesting a moonball 2-point conversion pass, Burnett sliding after the pick—but one less mentioned but big reason for the defensive collapse at the end of the game was that Clay went out with an injury (concussion?) and missed the last three Seattle drives.

[jute2003]

I feel like the team will likely be better next year with a worse record...that's all I got.

[Wisky4life]

Re-sign Crosby, Veldheer and Bulaga. All the rest of the UFA can walk
Bring back all RFA

Cut Graham
Trade Lane Taylor

Sign AJ Green (If Cheap)

[Frank Nova]

I dont hate the idea of drafting Tua if he falls to 30. I just wanted to say that.

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I don’t think he makes it out of the top 5 still.

Almost every mock I've seen has him going #5 to Miami. The one oddball had Miami taking Love and then the Chargers taking Tua.

Just no Herbert, please. He reminds me of Tebow, except not as successful.

Yeah if he throws well he should be a top QB to go. However, if he is the 1 to slide I would jump on him. Other than that, none of the higher ranked QBs impress me enough to worry about wasting high draft capital yet. Declining Rodgers can still be elite, drafting a WR should be high priority. Laviska Shenault would be sexy at 30. It sucks because WR would be a non issue if we just drafted AJ Brown at 12 like I said last year lol.

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[humanrefutation]

Introduce Rodgers to Alex Guerrero. He's supposed to be close with Brady - perhaps he can get him in rejuvenation mode.

Let me offer a counter to all of this Rodgers criticism:

This is his first season with LaFleur. Learning a brand new offensive system, with different timing and different checks and different looks. Couple that with a bunch of targets he just didn't have a lot of experience throwing to. So many of his mistakes involved underthrowing and overthrowing guys. I don't think he lost arm strength. I think it was just timing and footwork.

He's definitely not as mobile as he used to be, but this offensive line just got decimated by dominant defensive fronts like SF and SD. He often looked out of his element.

I'm not ready to say that he won't come back next year and return to being an elite QB with another year with MLF and perhaps a new acquisition or three to bolster the offense.

[ibanezjp]

I feel like the team will likely be better next year with a worse record...that's all I got.

I agree. 11-5 or 12-4 but more dangerous. The 2010 was way better than 10-6. Although it would be nice to get the 1 seed for once.

[th87]

I’m really struggling with the “how did this happen” as far as giving up record rushing yards. Yes our run defense was not great all year but never bad enough to give up that many. Nobody had beat us like that all year so it wasn’t like there was a template. Also our tackling had gotten much tighter down the stretch. The obvious big reaction would be to fire Petine the way Capers should have been fired after the Kaep game in 2012. Was it that Shanahan just massively out coached Petine? Even so Petine was good enough to get this team to 13-3 when the offense’s numbers were about as productive as the 6-9-1 team last year, so that makes me think the defense was the biggest reason for our turnaround. We knew what the offseason holes were gonna be prior to this game (getting more weapons on offense) but now giving up this many rush yards kinda makes you re-think. Although the only obvious holes on D are ILB and maybe another D line guy. It’s not like in 2012 where you could see we needed help in all levels of the D. Obviously the offense pissing itself in the first half did not help the defense and I wonder how much of yesterday’s performance on D was their will just being broke by seeing the offense crap the bed but that first TD they gave up to Mostert looked like the rest of the game which leads me to believe it was more scheme, like they didn’t think the 49ers would be running it so much almost like we dared them to run. I’m just really scratching my head on this one. Also I don’t think Rodgers is done but after seeing the inaccuracy this year it’s scares me how quick he might fall of a cliff when he really loses it. I feel it will be drastic like Peyton Manning where he went from MVP season in 2013 to a noodle arm in 2015. Yes they won the owl but that defense was historic.

49ers basically spammed Pettine with "Run 1" from Tecmo Bowl, and made Mostert (a former journeyman) look like Jim Brown. Would've set the NFL rushing record if they didn't stop trying.

And yet, he provided no adjustments or imagination to counter the flooding. Nothing to even slow him down. Bet Shanahan found the revenge absolutely delicious.

So Pettine is incredibly stubborn, and/or incredibly stupid. Every day I see he's still in the employ of the Packers, I will be furious.

[Treebeard]

IF Martinez is gone, obviously the Packers need a replacement, preferably a quicker and a more versatile defender(or two). Which is a more reasonable way to fill that need? This years draft, or via Free Agency? Are there any realistic options in the upcoming FA group?

[jimmybones]

I’m really struggling with the “how did this happen” as far as giving up record rushing yards. Yes our run defense was not great all year but never bad enough to give up that many. Nobody had beat us like that all year so it wasn’t like there was a template. Also our tackling had gotten much tighter down the stretch. The obvious big reaction would be to fire Petine the way Capers should have been fired after the Kaep game in 2012. Was it that Shanahan just massively out coached Petine? Even so Petine was good enough to get this team to 13-3 when the offense’s numbers were about as productive as the 6-9-1 team last year, so that makes me think the defense was the biggest reason for our turnaround. We knew what the offseason holes were gonna be prior to this game (getting more weapons on offense) but now giving up this many rush yards kinda makes you re-think. Although the only obvious holes on D are ILB and maybe another D line guy. It’s not like in 2012 where you could see we needed help in all levels of the D. Obviously the offense pissing itself in the first half did not help the defense and I wonder how much of yesterday’s performance on D was their will just being broke by seeing the offense crap the bed but that first TD they gave up to Mostert looked like the rest of the game which leads me to believe it was more scheme, like they didn’t think the 49ers would be running it so much almost like we dared them to run. I’m just really scratching my head on this one. Also I don’t think Rodgers is done but after seeing the inaccuracy this year it’s scares me how quick he might fall of a cliff when he really loses it. I feel it will be drastic like Peyton Manning where he went from MVP season in 2013 to a noodle arm in 2015. Yes they won the owl but that defense was historic.

49ers basically spammed Pettine with "Run 1" from Tecmo Bowl, and made Mostert (a former journeyman) look like Jim Brown. Would've set the NFL rushing record if they didn't stop trying.

And yet, he provided no adjustments or imagination to counter the flooding. Nothing to even slow him down. Bet Shanahan found the revenge absolutely delicious.

So Pettine is incredibly stubborn, and/or incredibly stupid. Every day I see he's still in the employ of the Packers, I will be furious.

The lack of adjustments were driving me insane. Dude, their QB is JIMMY GALAPAGOS(?). Put the entire defense in the box and beg them to throw the ball. Any RB on earth would have feasted on those running lanes.

[CWoodfan]

Speed at linebacker has to be the priority. San Fran was so much faster than us it was ridiculous. As others have said this has been a weakness of ours for years.

You literally could have said the same thing after the 2012 playoff debacle when Kap went off on us.

Or you could have said it after the 2014 NFC Championship loss to Seattle.

Or after the 2016 NFC Championship loss to Atlanta.

There is no hiding an AJ Hawk, Jake Ryan, or Blake Martinez against good teams and Martinez was better than the losers who played next to him like Morrison last year and Goodson this season.

Slow inside linebackers and poor defense have been a Packers calling card for about a decade now.

Gutey needs to rectify the situation just like he did at outside linebacker last offseason or we'll be saying the same things about the D heading into 2021.

Actually ILB wasn’t a problem in the post-bye 2014 season or in the 2014 playoffs—until about the 4:00 mark in the fourth quarter of the NFCC game. That was because they moved Clay there during the bye, and it turned an ok defense into a top defense.

Multiple reasons we lost the NFCC—the onside kick, running to run the clock instead of passing, MM maybe not realizing Sherman was hurt, Haha oddly letting up and not contesting a moonball 2-point conversion pass, Burnett sliding after the pick—but one less mentioned but big reason for the defensive collapse at the end of the game was that Clay went out with an injury (concussion?) and missed the last three Seattle drives.

Could not agree more that the ILB play improved immediately when Clay moved there (and finally sent Hawk to the bench) after the Saints crushed us on Sunday Night Football in 2014 and surprise, surprise that speed and effective ILB play had us going to the SB if Clay had not gotten hurt and Hawk had not been inserted in is place to remind us one final time just how bad he was playing that position.

Unfortunately, Clay returned to play OLB ineffectively in 2015 and Ted decided to revert back to drafting plodders like Ryan (2015) and Martinez (2016) to play ILB.

[Lippo]

Having only 1 quality defensive lineman in a 3-4 defense and no stud inside linebackers reared its head in a big way tonight. You simply can't play defense that way. You need to find Clark a running mate on the line and find a linebacker that knows how to fill his gaps in the run game. If you dont fix those 2 things nothing else matters.

Antonio Morrison would have been useful this game, Hodges too...

[Lippo]

Turn Gary into a MLB, profit...
A faster Kirkland

[th87]

I’m really struggling with the “how did this happen” as far as giving up record rushing yards. Yes our run defense was not great all year but never bad enough to give up that many. Nobody had beat us like that all year so it wasn’t like there was a template. Also our tackling had gotten much tighter down the stretch. The obvious big reaction would be to fire Petine the way Capers should have been fired after the Kaep game in 2012. Was it that Shanahan just massively out coached Petine? Even so Petine was good enough to get this team to 13-3 when the offense’s numbers were about as productive as the 6-9-1 team last year, so that makes me think the defense was the biggest reason for our turnaround. We knew what the offseason holes were gonna be prior to this game (getting more weapons on offense) but now giving up this many rush yards kinda makes you re-think. Although the only obvious holes on D are ILB and maybe another D line guy. It’s not like in 2012 where you could see we needed help in all levels of the D. Obviously the offense pissing itself in the first half did not help the defense and I wonder how much of yesterday’s performance on D was their will just being broke by seeing the offense crap the bed but that first TD they gave up to Mostert looked like the rest of the game which leads me to believe it was more scheme, like they didn’t think the 49ers would be running it so much almost like we dared them to run. I’m just really scratching my head on this one. Also I don’t think Rodgers is done but after seeing the inaccuracy this year it’s scares me how quick he might fall of a cliff when he really loses it. I feel it will be drastic like Peyton Manning where he went from MVP season in 2013 to a noodle arm in 2015. Yes they won the owl but that defense was historic.

49ers basically spammed Pettine with "Run 1" from Tecmo Bowl, and made Mostert (a former journeyman) look like Jim Brown. Would've set the NFL rushing record if they didn't stop trying.

And yet, he provided no adjustments or imagination to counter the flooding. Nothing to even slow him down. Bet Shanahan found the revenge absolutely delicious.

So Pettine is incredibly stubborn, and/or incredibly stupid. Every day I see he's still in the employ of the Packers, I will be furious.

The lack of adjustments were driving me insane. Dude, their QB is JIMMY GALAPAGOS(?). Put the entire defense in the box and beg them to throw the ball. Any RB on earth would have feasted on those running lanes.

As time passes, I'm finding myself more disappointed that we squandered this opportunity without giving them our best shot. It's possible adjusting would've resulted in an aerial fireworks display, but there is no way to know. We were content with sticking with what clearly didn't work. I wonder if the halftime speech consisted of "energy and effort".

Also, how do we beat Shanahan if he's a better version of Lafleur?

[galena]

As time passes, I'm finding myself more disappointed that we squandered this opportunity without giving them our best shot. It's possible adjusting would've resulted in an aerial fireworks display, but there is no way to know. We were content with sticking with what clearly didn't work. I wonder if the halftime speech consisted of "energy and effort".

Also, how do we beat Shanahan if he's a better version of Lafleur?[/quote]

Well said. What a disaster that whole game was. Played not to lose instead of to win... allowed them to absolutely dictate the game... and yeah LeFleur is baby Shanahan. Always the bridesmaid never the bride. SMH.