Around the NBA - All Star Weekend and beyond

[K_ick_God]

Should have gotten a package from the Spurs or Boston for KP.

Not opening up the field to everyone is certainly a failure

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not surprising they also said they had max cat FA meetings set up and almost every FA came out and said they never planed on meeting with the knicks.

Mills is a pathological liar he said we had 8 portential trades lined up and chose one. Seemed like we made the first trade available that gave us cap space (which we ended up using on bums)

Unless this was made up, KP was shopped to the Kings and Jazz because they had young players we coveted. They both said no. Dennis was on the list too.

[3toheadmelo]

Not opening up the field to everyone is certainly a failure

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not surprising they also said they had max cat FA meetings set up and almost every FA came out and said they never planed on meeting with the knicks.

Mills is a pathological liar he said we had 8 portential trades lined up and chose one. Seemed like we made the first trade available that gave us cap space (which we ended up using on bums)

Unless this was made up, KP was shopped to the Kings and Jazz because they had young players we coveted. They both said no. Dennis was on the list too.

Yes, Marc Stein reported that we tried to get Fox, Bagley, Mitchell, etc. They did their homework. KP's value was pretty low. So I am not sure if that guy from SI is legit.

[dakomish23]

not surprising they also said they had max cat FA meetings set up and almost every FA came out and said they never planed on meeting with the knicks.

Mills is a pathological liar he said we had 8 portential trades lined up and chose one. Seemed like we made the first trade available that gave us cap space (which we ended up using on bums)

Unless this was made up, KP was shopped to the Kings and Jazz because they had young players we coveted. They both said no. Dennis was on the list too.

Yes, Marc Stein reported that we tried to get Fox, Bagley, Mitchell, etc. They did their homework. KP's value was pretty low. So I am not sure if that guy from SI is legit.

I think he’s saying it wasn’t league wide

[3toheadmelo]

Unless this was made up, KP was shopped to the Kings and Jazz because they had young players we coveted. They both said no. Dennis was on the list too.

Yes, Marc Stein reported that we tried to get Fox, Bagley, Mitchell, etc. They did their homework. KP's value was pretty low. So I am not sure if that guy from SI is legit.

I think he’s saying it wasn’t league wide

Maybe. But I am not complaining cause the Knicks already tried to get young prospects in return. Good ones too. So whoever missed out would've offered players that the Knicks were not looking at

[Marty McFly]

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[Chanel Bomber]

Wow. Has there ever been a better passing 7 footer than Jokic? Bill Walton comes to mind, but Jokic's vision and creativity seem to be at another level.

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?s=20

Best center in the game for the past two seasons. Better than Embiid and AD for me.

That play is just ridiculous.

I would love for him to get the chip on some 1977 Bill Walton ish.

[Marty McFly]

Wow. Has there ever been a better passing 7 footer than Jokic? Bill Walton comes to mind, but Jokic's vision and creativity seem to be at another level.

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?s=20

he might be a top 10 passer all time regardless of position. man's bball IQ is absurd.

[thebuzzardman]

Wow. Has there ever been a better passing 7 footer than Jokic? Bill Walton comes to mind, but Jokic's vision and creativity seem to be at another level.

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?s=20

he might be a top 10 passer all time regardless of position. man's bball IQ is absurd.

Guy, I think Jokic is a great player and better passer. But the hyperbole on this clip is a little over the top.

The opposing player takes a long 3, where the defender runs at him, and past him. He's in the beginning of releasing to go down the court. Jokic sees this, grabs a rebound, sees the guy released and makes a great pass.

He didn't have to "read the position of all 9 players on the court in a mental snapshot" He had to be aware a player was releasing and make a great pass.
He read 3 players.
The guy he had to box out
His guy releasing
The guy running behind him.

Was it still a cool play and a great pass? Yes.
Was it "reading all 9 players" No. C'mon.

[Marty McFly]

Wow. Has there ever been a better passing 7 footer than Jokic? Bill Walton comes to mind, but Jokic's vision and creativity seem to be at another level.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

he might be a top 10 passer all time regardless of position. man's bball IQ is absurd.

Guy, I think Jokic is a great player and better passer. But the hyperbole on this clip is a little over the top.

The opposing player takes a long 3, where the defender runs at him, and past him. He's in the beginning of releasing to go down the court. Jokic sees this, grabs a rebound, sees the guy released and makes a great pass.

He didn't have to "read the position of all 9 players on the court in a mental snapshot" He had to be aware a player was releasing and make a great pass.
He read 3 players.
The guy he had to box out
His guy releasing
The guy running behind him.

Was it still a cool play and a great pass? Yes.
Was it "reading all 9 players" No. C'mon.

Lad, this ain't my tweet. I was making a comment about Jokic in general.

[thebuzzardman]

he might be a top 10 passer all time regardless of position. man's bball IQ is absurd.

Guy, I think Jokic is a great player and better passer. But the hyperbole on this clip is a little over the top.

The opposing player takes a long 3, where the defender runs at him, and past him. He's in the beginning of releasing to go down the court. Jokic sees this, grabs a rebound, sees the guy released and makes a great pass.

He didn't have to "read the position of all 9 players on the court in a mental snapshot" He had to be aware a player was releasing and make a great pass.
He read 3 players.
The guy he had to box out
His guy releasing
The guy running behind him.

Was it still a cool play and a great pass? Yes.
Was it "reading all 9 players" No. C'mon.

Lad, this ain't my tweet. I was making a comment about Jokic in general.

I just quoted you as last person on it.

[Thugger HBC]

Yes, Marc Stein reported that we tried to get Fox, Bagley, Mitchell, etc. They did their homework. KP's value was pretty low. So I am not sure if that guy from SI is legit.

I think he’s saying it wasn’t league wide

Maybe. But I am not complaining cause the Knicks already tried to get young prospects in return. Good ones too. So whoever missed out would've offered players that the Knicks were not looking at

This really is the key here. If these reports are true then yes, the Knicks tried.

KP isn't even on a level where he should be considered a league wide prospect.

We knock roughly a third of the league was talked to at some point in time about KP in an actual trade discussion even dating back to Phil.

Now league execs were baffled and caught by surprise? Nah. KP wasn't that hot of a commodity. Still aint.

[Thugger HBC]

Anthony Davis wasn't shopped league wide either fwiw.

Whats being overlooked somewhat is the Knicks when they do trades as of late anyway, they tend to send a guy where they would like to go if the deal is good enough.

They did it with KP, they did it with Melo. Even Phil did it when he sent Tyson back to Dallas. Might not be the best move for the team, but that's how it's ben done lately.

[Clyde Frazier]

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The knicks among plenty of other teams had *several* chances to pick this guy up over the last few years. And now it seems like the pistons of all teams will reap the benefits of his game. Unless they pass on signing him in the offseason.

Pretty much has the prototypical skillset for a modern big: 37% from 3 on 2.1 attempts per game and 75.2% from the line on 3.9 FTA in 20.3 MPG. Posting a nice +3.3 net rating and a comically high +11.5 on/off due to a **** roster.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/woodch01.html

Putting him and mitch on the floor together for short stretches would be devastating. Oh well

[thebuzzardman]

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The knicks among plenty of other teams had *several* chances to pick this guy up over the last few years. And now it seems like the pistons of all teams will reap the benefits of his game. Unless they pass on signing him in the offseason.

Pretty much has the prototypical skillset for a modern big: 37% from 3 on 2.1 attempts per game and 75.2% from the line on 3.9 FTA in 20.3 MPG. Posting a nice +3.3 net rating and a comically high +11.5 on/off due to a **** roster.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/woodch01.html

Putting and mitch on the floor together for short stretches would be devastating. Oh well

Knicks needed those roster spots for Portis and Gibson

[Worst_to_First]

Heat just put the clamps on the Bucks.

Am not underestimating this team in the playoffs.

[ozwizard8]

One move isn't related to the other. KP could have back to back 50 point games and I'm still satisfied he's gone. He didn't want to be here. Could have made much better use of that cap space in the immediate timeline, but no real complaints on the trade front itself.

KP didnt want to be here is BS.
He didnt want to work with current FO. And he was right about it.
I'd rather choose to fire incompetent Fizdale-Perry-Mills trio than letting them trade KP away. Mills-Perry also made sure to write articles on how KP and his brother were toxic and many fans just believed those mouthpieces.

Immediate timeline cap space didn't help anything. When you convince big names like Durant-Irving you can always find the right trade package to offload some contracts.
C.Lee expiring or THJ contracts were not immovable contracts. And THJ right now doesnt look like a negative asset at all too.

It was all about Knicks FO. KP did great. If he was successful Dolan would keep KP and fire Fizdale/Perry/Mills or make them KP's bitch. Then Knicks would have a real chance to build on sth with Barrett-KP-Mitchell foundation.
Front office is also responsible to keep their players believe in their vision. Basically keep them happy. Bucks made the right moves to make Giannis happy with right coaching choice and player acquisitions. If they didn't do that Giannis would ask for a trade for sure.

In any case, everyone should acknowledge that Knicks FO was so incompetent that they traded KP at his lowest value.

KP was a risky investment to give a 5 year Max contract.

1) KP was injured, looked fragile and had stamina issues.

2) KP was a inefficient shooter, selfish player (low assists) and kind a tweener (too thin to play center and to tall and awkward to defend perimeter).

3) He as a foreign and young player was not great friend of others stars. Not great odds of buddy-buddy signing with another star.

4) He didnt like the current Front Office and he didnt see a future to the franchise for the next years. He could really had taken the QO. No rookie has refused a max so far. But he is pride and from a different environment and culture. He could had been the first one.

In hindsight,we should have taken the risk (he looks healthy and better). But, we cant analyse this situation in hindsight. The rumor of Durant coming to play for a NYC team with Irving was solid. But we didnt think about the possibilility of signing with the Nets and the the risk of an Durant`s serious injury.

Durant's injury wasnt related with Knicks vs Nets thing.
You do not trade your franchise player that still on rookie contract for rumors of possible FA's!
When FA time comes you can always offload C.Lee's 12m expiring. Or THJr contract. Maybe you'd give a young player or draft pick but its not hard to package those for salary offloading. Trading KP is always easy, you'd recieve assets for him any time.
Mills and Perry reasoning was BS!

For your bullets above:

1) and 4) kinda contradict itself. KP coming off a 1.5 year knee injury would take 5 year extension anywhere he goes. Thats not a huge deal for him or Janis. According to Mills&Perry and their mouthpiece media, KP asked for a trade. If he has the balls to ask trade when he was injured for 1.5 years then he would be ok to take 5 year extension and ask a trade after a year.

2) Inefficient scorer, being between PF/C, low assist numbers. So he's not Dirk Nowitzki with Embiid's size, Jokic's court vision, KAT athleticism. No one here claiming KP is GOAT. Maybe he wont be ever top 5-10 player too. But he already shown he's an allstar level talent.

3) DSJ is buddy buddy American star player and he's great at recruiting! If Knicks traded KP for KAT then you could make this argument. Towns would bring some buddy players etc. But you dont trade your star player for not being American.
With this mentality, Denver should trade Jokic tomorrow.

[ozwizard8]

One move isn't related to the other. KP could have back to back 50 point games and I'm still satisfied he's gone. He didn't want to be here. Could have made much better use of that cap space in the immediate timeline, but no real complaints on the trade front itself.

KP didnt want to be here is BS.
He didnt want to work with current FO. And he was right about it.
I'd rather choose to fire incompetent Fizdale-Perry-Mills trio than letting them trade KP away. Mills-Perry also made sure to write articles on how KP and his brother were toxic and many fans just believed those mouthpieces.

Immediate timeline cap space didn't help anything. When you convince big names like Durant-Irving you can always find the right trade package to offload some contracts.
C.Lee expiring or THJ contracts were not immovable contracts. And THJ right now doesnt look like a negative asset at all too.

It was all about Knicks FO. KP did great. If he was successful Dolan would keep KP and fire Fizdale/Perry/Mills or make them KP's bitch. Then Knicks would have a real chance to build on sth with Barrett-KP-Mitchell foundation.
Front office is also responsible to keep their players believe in their vision. Basically keep them happy. Bucks made the right moves to make Giannis happy with right coaching choice and player acquisitions. If they didn't do that Giannis would ask for a trade for sure.

In any case, everyone should acknowledge that Knicks FO was so incompetent that they traded KP at his lowest value.

I think this would quantify s believing what you choose. It's fine to do so, but the evidence states otherwise.

KP wasn't just unhappy with mills and perry, he didn't care for the exec that drafted him either. Of course that doesn't absolve the current fo as they were terrible.

The latter part of your post is rather unrealistic. Players asked to be traded quite often, and no amount of convincing is gonna make a player change their mind. Once it's out, there is no turning back.

Also winning cures everything....literally. Giannis is happy because of wins. ironically he didn't like the firing of his coach, but winning eclipses that.....for some. Didn't work out quite the same with Kawhi for instance and he's better than both of them.

Of course KP will look happier in dallas...they are winning more games.

I think we're talking about same thing here. Winning would make the player happy.
Bucks FO had a solid plan, signed the right coach and the personnel. They behaved as professionals and they succeed in what they did. Its Bucks FO's success to retain Giannis in a small market team.
Meanwhile, Knicks FO sucked really hard for year after year. And they didnt even try to please KP anyhow.
What was Fizdale nonsense? S.Perry signing? Worst of the worst hired by Knicks. Would you spend your career under those idiots?
TWolves FO isn't a good one but even they made a trade to please KAT. Without the Russell trade and a new plan KAT would be asking for out. Still if they fail in their plan, if they sign/trade wrong players, if they don't change their coach with a good one they'll LOSE more games and KAT will be unhappy.
This is a common thing in NBA. Max contract players asking for a trade after couple years in their extension. A.Davis is a great example. Some finishes their extension contract for instance KD left in FA.
No one would surprise if KAT asks for a trade in a year. Or lets say Jokic might ask for a trade in 3 years.

Knicks FO acted hostile to KP. They didnt try to please him. They weren't able to hire competent coach. They didnt have any real plan for future.
I wouldn't mind if KP stayed 2 more years and asked for a trade. And believe me Knicks would compensated more in a trade like that. Knicks traded KP at his lowest value and thats the issue. KP had many flaws, injury risks but still, Knicks could've got more from him either in a future trade or as a piece in the team with Barrett-KP-Mitchell frontcourt.

[ozwizard8]

Wow. Has there ever been a better passing 7 footer than Jokic? Bill Walton comes to mind, but Jokic's vision and creativity seem to be at another level.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Best center in the game for the past two seasons. Better than Embiid and AD for me.

That play is just ridiculous.

I would love for him to get the chip on some 1977 Bill Walton ish.

I never understand the A.Davis hype.
I was listening to Bill Simmons podcast the day earlier and he put A.Davis in top 4 players for the league.
A.Davis/his agent LeGM must be paying a lot of money to those media people.
They constantly overrate A.Davis.

A.Davis wasnt even able to lift his team to playoffs regularly. He's not as dominant as a scorer too. Jokic is legit low post scorer no matter if its clutch time or the first quarter.
Jokic is also **** clutch as he scores game-winner every now and then. Dirk-Esque shots!
His passing is better than anyone in the league currently. The court vision is impressive. Lebron-Doncic type of guys gets their assist with their drives and passing out of double teams finding the open guy.
Jokic is playmaking like J.Kidd. His passes are so precise.

Jokic>Embiid>>A.Davis

[Richard4444]

KP didnt want to be here is BS.
He didnt want to work with current FO. And he was right about it.
I'd rather choose to fire incompetent Fizdale-Perry-Mills trio than letting them trade KP away. Mills-Perry also made sure to write articles on how KP and his brother were toxic and many fans just believed those mouthpieces.

Immediate timeline cap space didn't help anything. When you convince big names like Durant-Irving you can always find the right trade package to offload some contracts.
C.Lee expiring or THJ contracts were not immovable contracts. And THJ right now doesnt look like a negative asset at all too.

It was all about Knicks FO. KP did great. If he was successful Dolan would keep KP and fire Fizdale/Perry/Mills or make them KP's bitch. Then Knicks would have a real chance to build on sth with Barrett-KP-Mitchell foundation.
Front office is also responsible to keep their players believe in their vision. Basically keep them happy. Bucks made the right moves to make Giannis happy with right coaching choice and player acquisitions. If they didn't do that Giannis would ask for a trade for sure.

In any case, everyone should acknowledge that Knicks FO was so incompetent that they traded KP at his lowest value.

KP was a risky investment to give a 5 year Max contract.

1) KP was injured, looked fragile and had stamina issues.

2) KP was a inefficient shooter, selfish player (low assists) and kind a tweener (too thin to play center and to tall and awkward to defend perimeter).

3) He as a foreign and young player was not great friend of others stars. Not great odds of buddy-buddy signing with another star.

4) He didnt like the current Front Office and he didnt see a future to the franchise for the next years. He could really had taken the QO. No rookie has refused a max so far. But he is pride and from a different environment and culture. He could had been the first one.

In hindsight,we should have taken the risk (he looks healthy and better). But, we cant analyse this situation in hindsight. The rumor of Durant coming to play for a NYC team with Irving was solid. But we didnt think about the possibilility of signing with the Nets and the the risk of an Durant`s serious injury.

Durant's injury wasnt related with Knicks vs Nets thing.
You do not trade your franchise player that still on rookie contract for rumors of possible FA's!
When FA time comes you can always offload C.Lee's 12m expiring. Or THJr contract. Maybe you'd give a young player or draft pick but its not hard to package those for salary offloading. Trading KP is always easy, you'd recieve assets for him any time.
Mills and Perry reasoning was BS!

For your bullets above:

1) and 4) kinda contradict itself. KP coming off a 1.5 year knee injury would take 5 year extension anywhere he goes. Thats not a huge deal for him or Janis. According to Mills&Perry and their mouthpiece media, KP asked for a trade. If he has the balls to ask trade when he was injured for 1.5 years then he would be ok to take 5 year extension and ask a trade after a year.

2) Inefficient scorer, being between PF/C, low assist numbers. So he's not Dirk Nowitzki with Embiid's size, Jokic's court vision, KAT athleticism. No one here claiming KP is GOAT. Maybe he wont be ever top 5-10 player too. But he already shown he's an allstar level talent.

3) DSJ is buddy buddy American star player and he's great at recruiting! If Knicks traded KP for KAT then you could make this argument. Towns would bring some buddy players etc. But you dont trade your star player for not being American.
With this mentality, Denver should trade Jokic tomorrow.

A) Nobody really knows how different the situation could be if Durant were healthy. Durant could have taken a more challenging path and have chosen the Knicks solo. He could have recruited some star like Butler, Kemba, etc. We could have showed more interest in his signing (through back channels).

B) Unload Lee and THjr after Durant signing would cost us a few FRPs. Teams would try to take advantage of our desperation.

C) If KP didnt healed well or suffered subsequent injuries due to his thin frame, his contract would be another STAT`s contract hurting our cap space. We are a team haunted from past albatroz contracts.

D) Asking for a trade would not be a tragedy if he comes back healthy because we would get equivalent value in return. If KP takes the QO, his contract looses all the market value. It would be a expiring contract. If the anger between FO and player were so great, KP could throw away money to get back on them.

E) DSjr was in a rookie contract deal. We could bring 2 stars in max salary in a buddy buddy deal with Dennis contract in the books. But with a KP Max in the books, we could not.

We lost the trade. But was not an obvious decision to make at the time.

[Marty McFly]

KP was a risky investment to give a 5 year Max contract.

1) KP was injured, looked fragile and had stamina issues.

2) KP was a inefficient shooter, selfish player (low assists) and kind a tweener (too thin to play center and to tall and awkward to defend perimeter).

3) He as a foreign and young player was not great friend of others stars. Not great odds of buddy-buddy signing with another star.

4) He didnt like the current Front Office and he didnt see a future to the franchise for the next years. He could really had taken the QO. No rookie has refused a max so far. But he is pride and from a different environment and culture. He could had been the first one.

In hindsight,we should have taken the risk (he looks healthy and better). But, we cant analyse this situation in hindsight. The rumor of Durant coming to play for a NYC team with Irving was solid. But we didnt think about the possibilility of signing with the Nets and the the risk of an Durant`s serious injury.

Durant's injury wasnt related with Knicks vs Nets thing.
You do not trade your franchise player that still on rookie contract for rumors of possible FA's!
When FA time comes you can always offload C.Lee's 12m expiring. Or THJr contract. Maybe you'd give a young player or draft pick but its not hard to package those for salary offloading. Trading KP is always easy, you'd recieve assets for him any time.
Mills and Perry reasoning was BS!

For your bullets above:

1) and 4) kinda contradict itself. KP coming off a 1.5 year knee injury would take 5 year extension anywhere he goes. Thats not a huge deal for him or Janis. According to Mills&Perry and their mouthpiece media, KP asked for a trade. If he has the balls to ask trade when he was injured for 1.5 years then he would be ok to take 5 year extension and ask a trade after a year.

2) Inefficient scorer, being between PF/C, low assist numbers. So he's not Dirk Nowitzki with Embiid's size, Jokic's court vision, KAT athleticism. No one here claiming KP is GOAT. Maybe he wont be ever top 5-10 player too. But he already shown he's an allstar level talent.

3) DSJ is buddy buddy American star player and he's great at recruiting! If Knicks traded KP for KAT then you could make this argument. Towns would bring some buddy players etc. But you dont trade your star player for not being American.
With this mentality, Denver should trade Jokic tomorrow.

A) Nobody really knows how different the situation could be if Durant were healthy. Durant could have taken a more challenging path and have chosen the Knicks solo. He could have recruited some star like Butler, Kemba, etc. We could have showed more interest in his signing (through back channels).

B) Unload Lee and THjr after Durant signing would cost us a few FRPs. Teams would try to take advantage of our desperation.

C) If KP didnt healed well or suffered subsequent injuries due to his thin frame, his contract would be another STAT`s contract hurting our cap space. We are a team haunted from past albatroz contracts.

D) Asking for a trade would not be a tragedy if he comes back healthy because we would get equivalent value in return. If KP takes the QO, his contract looses all the market value. It would be a expiring contract. If the anger between FO and player were so great, KP could throw away money to get back on them.

E) DSjr was in a rookie contract deal. We could bring 2 stars in max salary in a buddy buddy deal with Dennis contract in the books. But with a KP Max in the books, we could not.

We lost the trade. But was not an obvious decision to make at the time.

as the subpar donnie walsh once said, one player is good at one price and not so good at another. this is one of those instances where you take the gamble of extending the best player that you have drafted since Patrick Ewing, because the fact of the matter is, no one wants to come here.

Capspace is useful when you can use it appropriately, and unfortunately for the knicks, our infamy precedes us so any player with half a brain is not going to waste their time coming to play for this team. that's just the reality.

you also aren't considering the kind of relationships players like him, (whether their stardom is deserved or not) develop. Mills and Perry wanted to maintain the capspace (that Mills blew on Tim) for KD/Kyrie, Or Giannis, the same Giannis that has a relationship with KP.

Our cap space goes to the julius randles, morris' and Portis of the world. That was the Alternative.