2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[mpharris36]

Donovan Mitchell another guy who was thought to have a low ceiling. You never know with these guys.

At the range we are picking in, especially in a weak draft, Haliburton seems like a good pick imo. I see the arguments for someone like Hayes though, but even he has his flaws like Haliburton as well.

lot of good points here. This draft is very interesting because you can make a case for nearly anyone and every single prospect has some glaring weaknesses. Depends on what you like and what you think they can become in the NBA.

I would say Mtichell had the athleticism he just had concerns about being a combo guard that shot a pretty low % in college with not so great pg skills. Kinda like where was he gong to fit, but he really thrived with more NBA spacing and his athleticism shined.

I think Haliburton is actually very skilled. He's just lacks that pop and NBA frame that could prevent him reaching a ceiling that some other prospects might get too. And nothing is wrong with that because he can play and he will be a very good pro.

I think I just read that he wants to put on 10-12 lbs. That should help.

If he ever improves his handle, then he’ll be super good. He checks off all the other boxes that I want in a guard.

Even if he doesn’t end up as a star and ends up as a Lonzo/Brogdon type player then I would still be pretty happy.

I would love that, however that might not be possible with his frame though. He is very much built like Shaun Livingston...those guys rarely can put on significant amount of weight. He checks off a lot of boxes for sure. As a main facilitator and ball handler...I just don't see it. That also doesn't mean he won't be good and that doesn't mean I wouldn't take him. Just being realistic of what he does well even with improved handle.

[3toheadmelo]

lot of good points here. This draft is very interesting because you can make a case for nearly anyone and every single prospect has some glaring weaknesses. Depends on what you like and what you think they can become in the NBA.

I would say Mtichell had the athleticism he just had concerns about being a combo guard that shot a pretty low % in college with not so great pg skills. Kinda like where was he gong to fit, but he really thrived with more NBA spacing and his athleticism shined.

I think Haliburton is actually very skilled. He's just lacks that pop and NBA frame that could prevent him reaching a ceiling that some other prospects might get too. And nothing is wrong with that because he can play and he will be a very good pro.

I think I just read that he wants to put on 10-12 lbs. That should help.

If he ever improves his handle, then he’ll be super good. He checks off all the other boxes that I want in a guard.

Even if he doesn’t end up as a star and ends up as a Lonzo/Brogdon type player then I would still be pretty happy.

nobody cares about your happiness

[Deeeez Knicks]

People are limiting themselves then if they want franchise level talent but don't want to consider anything other than a guard. Listen, if that is truly what we want then there is no need to limit ourselves to just a guard in this draft. This means, if we seriously want to aim high for a star, you absolutely have to factor in Wiseman and Obi Toppin into the mix. You can't complain about not having franchise talent then at the same time put a scrub like Deni Avdija over Wiseman and Toppin, it makes no sense. Even Killian Hayes doesn't belong ranked ahead of either of those two.

Facts. That’s why I won’t be mad if the Knicks take Toppin if he’s available. He has more star potential than a lot of the guards in this draft.

I just dont see it with Toppin. 22, dominated a lower league in the post/paint, horrible defender. He will probably score, but might end up being an overall liability...Pass on him.

[HarthorneWingo]

look, if you think haliburton could be the guy who surprises that's fine. i won't argue against your opinion. but if you go into it thinking, he definitely won't be special but he'll be solid, why bother ?

Because he's the type of player who will (1) make others better on the court; (2) create better spacing for RJ and Randle with his ability to shoot the 3 from long range; (3) he plays both sides of the court; and (4) he's another high character player on the team. We can't afford to bomb this pick at the craps table.

i saw your other post. it's not 1972 anymore. you can stop rocking the plaid bell bottoms now too.

They're coming back!

[3toheadmelo]

lot of good points here. This draft is very interesting because you can make a case for nearly anyone and every single prospect has some glaring weaknesses. Depends on what you like and what you think they can become in the NBA.

I would say Mtichell had the athleticism he just had concerns about being a combo guard that shot a pretty low % in college with not so great pg skills. Kinda like where was he gong to fit, but he really thrived with more NBA spacing and his athleticism shined.

I think Haliburton is actually very skilled. He's just lacks that pop and NBA frame that could prevent him reaching a ceiling that some other prospects might get too. And nothing is wrong with that because he can play and he will be a very good pro.

I think I just read that he wants to put on 10-12 lbs. That should help.

If he ever improves his handle, then he’ll be super good. He checks off all the other boxes that I want in a guard.

Even if he doesn’t end up as a star and ends up as a Lonzo/Brogdon type player then I would still be pretty happy.

I would love that, however that might not be possible with his frame though. He is very much built like Shaun Livingston...those guys rarely can put on significant amount of weight. He checks off a lot of boxes for sure. As a main facilitator and ball handler...I just don't see it. That also doesn't mean he won't be good and that doesn't mean I wouldn't take him. Just being realistic of what he does well even with improved handle.

I’m not worried about his frame. If his handle improves though I don’t see how he can’t be a main facilitator. He has top notch court vision. An improved handle would allow him to break down defenses more, drive and kicks, etc.

[sol537]

I'll be good with Haliburton, Hayes, or Ball (if we don't have to give up additional assets to get him).

New PG + RJ + Mitch + Frank + get me Jerami Grant and I'm good.

Use leftover cap space to help other teams avoid luxury tax and grab some additional mid to late 1st rounders in 2020 and 2021. Let's goooooooooooooyoooooooooojooooooooooooeeeeeeee

[HEZI]

Haliburton can shoot and pass with a high IQ, but he does seem more like a glue/role/secondary playmaker type. He may never be a big scorer or put up big numbers..just doesn't seem like the aggressive or attacking type of G. Can do a little bit of everything, play smart with efficiency.

I still like Haliburton. Worth a pick in our 6 to 10 range imo. Just would temper expectations for anyone we draft in that range. Seems like we are looking at more of a solid starter type, which we could certainly use.

You never know though with ceilings.

Read on Twitter

I actually love that play. He looks to attack the right side early in the shot clock, the defense shifts over to that strong side, he recognizes that it's sealed off so he swings the ball back over to the other wing who has a lane to attack on the left. Imagine that guy he passed it to is RJ Barrett who now has a lane to go attack left where he loves to go to. Imagine that the guy under the basket is Mitchell Robinson who is waiting to either catch the lob from RJ driving and his man coming over to help or he's waiting to clean up the offensive glass. Easy play, not much clock wasted, no forced shot, just simple ball. Even if RJ gets sealed off on his drive there is plenty of time on the clock left to reset and go into another play. RJ's style is even if that lane gets sealed off he's going to try to attack you or turn around and back you down so if Haliburton's guy drops down even a little bit, there is room to hit Haliburton on the outside for the deep 3 ball. Quick and fast decision making, read and react, floor balance, it's a simple game really. As long as he's not a deer in the headlights and isn't shy to shoot from outside while maintaining a good percentage he's going to be just fine.

He has a mismatch on the perimeter so should be able to take him. Had some room to shoot, but he just doesn't have that mid range game and not a good shooter off the dribble...doesnt get to the rim much either. Just one play, but indicative of his non-aggressive game. He is looking to pass in those plays.

Even in pick n rolls as the ball handler, he was only at .64 PPP in the 36% precentile. He was a great passer, just not a big scoring threat since he doesn't get to the rim much or shoot off the dribble. NBA teams can scout that and play him for the pass.

Unless he becomes a more aggressive scorer and develop a mid range/driving game, it will limit his upside. It is def possible he can develop that type of game. But seems like some parts of that are hard to develop.

Again, i like him as a solid player. He has his strengths and weaknesses like everyone else in the draft. Just doesn't seem like he has big scoring/lead guard potential. Seems more like an off the ball, secondary facilitator...that can still be a good player. Him and RJ might be a good fit.

He could have pulled up for a shot but there was over 20 seconds left on the clock so he didn't really have to. There was a guy in the paint waiting for the ball and a guy in the corner spotting up, so there was help defense all around that right side. That really wasn't a good example of a good iso mismatch opportunity. Like I said he had one opportunity to take a long jumper but with it being so early in the clock it wasn't necessary so his decision was a good play. Rather than forcing it to the inside man or swinging it to the guy in the corner he went to the left wing where his teammate had the angle to attack an opening in the lane.

He doesn't need a mid range game, not at all especially if he's playing with RJ Barrett. He needs to shoot as much from behind the line as possible, push the pace and get out in transition and look to attack the paint in halfcourt every now and then.

[3toheadmelo]

People are limiting themselves then if they want franchise level talent but don't want to consider anything other than a guard. Listen, if that is truly what we want then there is no need to limit ourselves to just a guard in this draft. This means, if we seriously want to aim high for a star, you absolutely have to factor in Wiseman and Obi Toppin into the mix. You can't complain about not having franchise talent then at the same time put a scrub like Deni Avdija over Wiseman and Toppin, it makes no sense. Even Killian Hayes doesn't belong ranked ahead of either of those two.

Facts. That’s why I won’t be mad if the Knicks take Toppin if he’s available. He has more star potential than a lot of the guards in this draft.

I just dont see it with Toppin. 22, dominated a lower league in the post/paint, horrible defender. He will probably score, but might end up being an overall liability...Pass on him.

He is young and athletic enough to work on his defense. He looks like he can be a scoring machine. I would take a shot at him. His upside is huge

[HEZI]

Facts. That’s why I won’t be mad if the Knicks take Toppin if he’s available. He has more star potential than a lot of the guards in this draft.

I just dont see it with Toppin. 22, dominated a lower league in the post/paint, horrible defender. He will probably score, but might end up being an overall liability...Pass on him.

He is young and athletic enough to work on his defense. He looks like he can be a scoring machine. I would take a shot at him. His upside is huge

Not just scoring but he's one of the more underrated passers in the draft. His court awareness and passing is a huge plus.

[Zenzibar]

O.k I would like to know how much is this years #1 pick? I'm asking not because I want Melo (Don't want) but because I went to the Golden State board and they said to trade with the Knicks they want our 6th, next years pick and 2 Dallas picks. The ****???? This weak draft's #1 is barely even worth the #6 and #27th. Next years draft is ten times better than this year so 2021's 10th pick could be better than this years top 3.

Exactly Bro, tell them we said...

[robillionaire]

The Knicks aren’t going to draft a senior citizen like toppin ok

[robillionaire]

Knicks Draft: People close to LaMelo Ball would love to see him in New York

Ian Begley

@PrimeCarmelo: Do you think the Knicks trade up for LaMelo if they don't move up in the lottery?

@Jiggyx_1: How would the lottery results for this draft affect our motivation to trade up?? Is there a specific player they key in on?? How likely is that?

“This shouldn't surprise anyone who has followed the 2020 draft class, but the Knicks have LaMelo Ball ranked as the top point guard on their draft board, an SNY source confirmed. One opposing scout said he assumed most teams have Ball at the top. But since @PrimeCarmelo asked specifically about LaMelo, it's worth pointing out that Knicks people think highly of the young guard.

That said, if the Knicks end up with the No. 6 pick, there are other factors to think about when discussing whether or not they'd move up. Who has the first four picks? Are any of those teams open to moving down for multiple picks or for a player and a pick? Just how much would New York be willing to sacrifice to move up a few spots to draft Ball?

It's tough to even speculate about that without knowing the draft order. I think the one thing you can say with a degree of certainty is that the Knicks, like all teams around the time of the draft, will be open to listening to trade opportunities available to them before they settle on a pick.

Regarding @Jiggyx_1's question, given that the Knicks are in need of a point guard and have Ball currently ranked at the top of their board, it's logical to assume that they'd be open to trading up for him. But it depends on the price, obviously. And that depends on which teams are ahead of the Knicks in the draft order.

We know that LaVar Ball would like to see LaMelo in New York. There are others in LaMelo's circle -- outside of LaVar -- who would love to see him end up in New York, SNY sources say. The New York Post reported that some in the NBA believe LaVar will try to steer LaMelo to the Knicks.

It seems like it would be difficult for Ball's camp to coordinate his landing LaMelo in New York if the Knicks end up with the No. 6 pick. Maybe withholding Ball's medical information from teams ahead of the Knicks could lead him to slide down? But it seems unlikely that he slides all the way to No. 6.”

[newyorker4ever]

Read on Twitter

It’s going to happen folks one way or another.

I love how that someone from the media tweets that the Knicks have L.Ball as their top PG or top player that people actually believe this like it's a fact. Do people really think anyone from any professional organization is gonna tell anyone in the media who their top player on their board is before the draft even gets started? It's just so ridiculous to think that anyone would be the dumb even anyone in the Knicks organization. We're most likely gonna be picking right around the 6 spot and you think the Knicks are gonna lose any leverage they would have to get Ball if he is actually their top ranked player? The NY media is a joke.

[WargamesX]

O.k I would like to know how much is this years #1 pick? I'm asking not because I want Melo (Don't want) but because I went to the Golden State board and they said to trade with the Knicks they want our 6th, next years pick and 2 Dallas picks. The ****???? This weak draft's #1 is barely even worth the #6 and #27th. Next years draft is ten times better than this year so 2021's 10th pick could be better than this years top 3.

Exactly Bro, tell them we said...

Tell them stop sniffing glue. They can take 27 and that top 10 protected 2023 Mavs pick and they should be happy for our generosity.

[HEZI]

Read on Twitter

It’s going to happen folks one way or another.

I love how that someone from the media tweets that the Knicks have L.Ball as their top PG or top player that people actually believe this like it's a fact. Do people really think anyone from any professional organization is gonna tell anyone in the media who their top player on their board is before the draft even gets started? It's just so ridiculous to think that anyone would be the dumb even anyone in the Knicks organization. We're most likely gonna be picking right around the 6 spot and you think the Knicks are gonna lose any leverage they would have to get Ball if he is actually their top ranked player? The NY media is a joke.

This is like when Durant was coming

[WargamesX]

Read on Twitter

It’s going to happen folks one way or another.

I love how that someone from the media tweets that the Knicks have L.Ball as their top PG or top player that people actually believe this like it's a fact. Do people really think anyone from any professional organization is gonna tell anyone in the media who their top player on their board is before the draft even gets started? It's just so ridiculous to think that anyone would be the dumb even anyone in the Knicks organization. We're most likely gonna be picking right around the 6 spot and you think the Knicks are gonna lose any leverage they would have to get Ball if he is actually their top ranked player? The NY media is a joke.

It’s complicated. There have always been leaks because there have always been politics and disgruntled Knicks employees. This isn’t like Mills Or Walsh where we are open with the plan, but I believe it.

The real question are 1) is this actionable news like the knicks have plan to move up for LaMelo 2) is this a smokescreen because while LaMelo might be the best talent they identified nearly as talentEd PG’s they can grab later.

[newyorker4ever]

People are limiting themselves then if they want franchise level talent but don't want to consider anything other than a guard. Listen, if that is truly what we want then there is no need to limit ourselves to just a guard in this draft. This means, if we seriously want to aim high for a star, you absolutely have to factor in Wiseman and Obi Toppin into the mix. You can't complain about not having franchise talent then at the same time put a scrub like Deni Avdija over Wiseman and Toppin, it makes no sense. Even Killian Hayes doesn't belong ranked ahead of either of those two.

Facts. That’s why I won’t be mad if the Knicks take Toppin if he’s available. He has more star potential than a lot of the guards in this draft.

My worry with Toppin is that he's just an athletic player but not any great skills like shooting or defense or vision/passing or rebounding. I don't know if he won't have any of those skills but sometimes players with his athleticism get too rapped up into just throwing down big dunks but forgets about making players around him better.

[HEZI]

People are limiting themselves then if they want franchise level talent but don't want to consider anything other than a guard. Listen, if that is truly what we want then there is no need to limit ourselves to just a guard in this draft. This means, if we seriously want to aim high for a star, you absolutely have to factor in Wiseman and Obi Toppin into the mix. You can't complain about not having franchise talent then at the same time put a scrub like Deni Avdija over Wiseman and Toppin, it makes no sense. Even Killian Hayes doesn't belong ranked ahead of either of those two.

Facts. That’s why I won’t be mad if the Knicks take Toppin if he’s available. He has more star potential than a lot of the guards in this draft.

My worry with Toppin is that he's just an athletic player but not any great skills like shooting or defense or vision/passing or rebounding. I don't know if he won't have any of those skills but sometimes players with his athleticism get too rapped up into just throwing down big dunks but forgets about making players around him better.

Excellent footwork in the post, soft touch around the rim, underrated as a passer and he's made plenty of high IQ passes nothing flashy but little tip passes to his teammates or zip passes cross court he has really nice understanding of the game. The guy is very skilled, we aren't talking about just a leaper here, he is a very talented all around player with star potential.

[robillionaire]

We have all the leverage because LaVar is speaking it into existence and utilizing the methods of “the source” via the law of attraction and collective positive thoughts to get him to the Knicks with the first pick. All we have to do is visualize lamelo on the knicks crossing people over and throwing crazy behind the back passes and lobs to Mitch and holding up the Larry O’Brien trophy on the knicks logo and it will manifest itself into reality

This must by why RAP (Rose, Aller, Perrin) must already know it’s a done deal. We don’t have to worry about how it happens just the end result and as GreenArrow said it’s going to happen one way or another

(and you will like it)

[newyorker4ever]

Read on Twitter

It’s going to happen folks one way or another.

I love how that someone from the media tweets that the Knicks have L.Ball as their top PG or top player that people actually believe this like it's a fact. Do people really think anyone from any professional organization is gonna tell anyone in the media who their top player on their board is before the draft even gets started? It's just so ridiculous to think that anyone would be the dumb even anyone in the Knicks organization. We're most likely gonna be picking right around the 6 spot and you think the Knicks are gonna lose any leverage they would have to get Ball if he is actually their top ranked player? The NY media is a joke.

This is like when Durant was coming

Screamin Stephen said it was a 95% chance that KD and Kyrie end up with the Knicks.