2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[3toheadmelo]

Are you gonna double down on your claim that the Suns will have a better record than Dallas???

Aytons suspension and injuries prevented that but when he came back they blew out Dallas by 29 points and their starting lineup has the best net rating in the league Next year you will see lol

I remember that game. Booker was running circles around Doncic.

Yep and Ayton made KP look like Bargnani Oubre was torching them too. Suns are gonna be big time soon. Love their core

[newyorker4ever]

Right, so what's this OO hype about? Isaiah Stewart destroyed him in their matchup and Stewart can do all the same things as him plus he's shown more versatility in his game. Jalen Smith too looks more skilled than him. I'm just not getting this Okongwu hype, he's not a unique prospect in any way but folks are hyping him up like he's something special.

I guess it's just people that do believe in his talent just like you don't believe in it, but that's just them assuming he'll be a good NBA player by what they've seen of him and believe he'll grow into because many of these kids are gonna get better as they grow and some aren't but nobody will know until it's actually seen. He could end up a big fat dud or he could end up finding a great fit for him and become a good/great player. Lets just hope that if we draft him it's the latter.

I'd rather hope we don't draft him and let somebody else spend time developing him. We got one big with limited offense, drafting another especially with a lotto pick doesn't make much sense. If they want to gamble on a big like that with a later pick then fine but we gotta aim higher with our lotto pick. If we really needed a big like him then I can understand but we don't we really don't need him. If we want to take a big with that lotto pick then it needs to be somebody who is brining more offensive versatility from day one, you can have those same improvement expectations from a player that is coming in with better tools already and then hope he keeps getting even better with those tools he currently has. A project big makes absolutely no sense for the Knicks right now, none!

Can't say you don't make a lot of sense here but i'm just not sold on Toppin which is how Onyeka's name even came out in this conversation. I love Toppin's athleticism and think his shooting will be alright but i want players that play defense. Like i've already said multiple times, i wanna build this team the way the Jazz and Heat build their teams which is with multiple defenders but not that play only defense but also have offensive games. I'm a huge Jimmy Butler fan and when everyone was on here only talking about KD and Kyrie during free agency i was talking about Kawhi and Butler.

[newyorker4ever]

Can’t blame them for losing cause of the situations their in, although the Suns look like they are starting to turn the corner.

LaVine plays for Jim Boylen.. the worst coach in the whole league. On top of their front office is the worst too.

Utah has been good since before Mitchell got there. Pretty sure if you put Mitchell on the Bulls or suns not much would change.

Are you gonna double down on your claim that the Suns will have a better record than Dallas???

Aytons suspension and injuries prevented that but when he came back they blew out Dallas by 29 points and their starting lineup has the best net rating in the league Next year you will see lol

Haha, so you are doubling down then? I joke with you but nobody can say they don't have a ton of good young talent on that team with all the draft picks they've added over the last 4-5-6 years of drafting in the high lottery or in the lottery. Now they need to put it all together and find that one player that steps into the lead role and not only plays great but makes his teammates better as well. The Hawks are right there with a ton of good young talent.

[3toheadmelo]

Both there offensive production is really good, it just doesn't lead to wins.

I think if we were going after someone Donovan Mitchell is the best of the 3.

Can’t blame them for losing cause of the situations their in, although the Suns look like they are starting to turn the corner.

LaVine plays for Jim Boylen.. the worst coach in the whole league. On top of their front office is the worst too.

Utah has been good since before Mitchell got there. Pretty sure if you put Mitchell on the Bulls or suns not much would change.

i mean I'll give a little bit of pass to lavine because the bulls are bad and Lauri had a bad year.

BUt the suns have no excuse to be bad. Booker, Ayton had a really good year, Oubre was good, Bridges/Rubio/Baynes are solid role players. There is no reason memphis is a 500 taem and the Suns are 13 games under if you just look at from a talent perspective.

And if Booker wants to be considered one of the best players he simply needs to start winning more.

I mean look at the Suns roster and the Utah roster...can you honestly tell me if you consider Mitch and Booker a wash. Does utah really have that much better of a roster?

I think its because Utah's best player has more of an impact than the suns best player.

Ayton was out for majority of the season and there was a lot of injuries on that team. That’s why they lost a lot of games. Their starting lineup still has the best net rating in the league. Pretty impressive considering that their the youngest team in the whole league. They just need to stay healthy and improve their bench. This same Suns team blew out Utah by 20 points. If Ayton never got suspended and hurt they would def be an 8th seed team or better. They played like a 43 win team with him on the court.

Utah has always been one of the best ran franchises in the league since before Mitchell got there. Literally won 51 games the season before they drafted him. Let’s not act like he’s carrying them and he’s the only reason why their winning. Dude has a great roster around him and is playing for one of the best coaches in the league. Mitchell is really good but he choked hard in the playoffs last year too. He is in the same tier as Booker and LaVine for me.

[3toheadmelo]

Are you gonna double down on your claim that the Suns will have a better record than Dallas???

Aytons suspension and injuries prevented that but when he came back they blew out Dallas by 29 points and their starting lineup has the best net rating in the league Next year you will see lol

Haha, so you are doubling down then? I joke with you but nobody can say they don't have a ton of good young talent on that team with all the draft picks they've added over the last 4-5-6 years of drafting in the high lottery or in the lottery. Now they need to put it all together and find that one player that steps into the lead role and not only plays great but makes his teammates better as well. The Hawks are right there with a ton of good young talent.

I expect them to make a big jump next year if they can stay healthy and nobody gets suspended lol. They looked pretty good when everybody was healthy

[HEZI]

Aytons suspension and injuries prevented that but when he came back they blew out Dallas by 29 points and their starting lineup has the best net rating in the league Next year you will see lol

I remember that game. Booker was running circles around Doncic.

Yep and Ayton made KP look like Bargnani Oubre was torching them too. Suns are gonna be big time soon. Love their core

Who you like with their pick? I think they can go in a number of directions but personally I would love to see a guy like Haliburton there, he'd be such a perfect fit. They can even take Obi if they move up and that would add a whole different dynamic. If they could somehow add both

[HEZI]

I guess it's just people that do believe in his talent just like you don't believe in it, but that's just them assuming he'll be a good NBA player by what they've seen of him and believe he'll grow into because many of these kids are gonna get better as they grow and some aren't but nobody will know until it's actually seen. He could end up a big fat dud or he could end up finding a great fit for him and become a good/great player. Lets just hope that if we draft him it's the latter.

I'd rather hope we don't draft him and let somebody else spend time developing him. We got one big with limited offense, drafting another especially with a lotto pick doesn't make much sense. If they want to gamble on a big like that with a later pick then fine but we gotta aim higher with our lotto pick. If we really needed a big like him then I can understand but we don't we really don't need him. If we want to take a big with that lotto pick then it needs to be somebody who is brining more offensive versatility from day one, you can have those same improvement expectations from a player that is coming in with better tools already and then hope he keeps getting even better with those tools he currently has. A project big makes absolutely no sense for the Knicks right now, none!

Can't say you don't make a lot of sense here but i'm just not sold on Toppin which is how Onyeka's name even came out in this conversation. I love Toppin's athleticism and think his shooting will be alright but i want players that play defense. Like i've already said multiple times, i wanna build this team the way the Jazz and Heat build their teams which is with multiple defenders but not that play only defense but also have offensive games. I'm a huge Jimmy Butler fan and when everyone was on here only talking about KD and Kyrie during free agency i was talking about Kawhi and Butler.

There's nothing wrong with that approach but then we gotta scrap the whole "youth and development" plan. Those teams are built on experience not youth. Their success comes from having older vets who have been in the league and played in big games and are experienced enough to know how to win. I have no issue with the Knicks building a playoff team as long as it's not too costly to do it and we still have a good enough core to keep building on over time.

[3toheadmelo]

I remember that game. Booker was running circles around Doncic.

Yep and Ayton made KP look like Bargnani Oubre was torching them too. Suns are gonna be big time soon. Love their core

Who you like with their pick? I think they can go in a number of directions but personally I would love to see a guy like Haliburton there, he'd be such a perfect fit. They can even take Obi if they move up and that would add a whole different dynamic. If they could somehow add both

Definitely think Haliburton is a perfect fit there. Would be a great glue guy on that team. I also like Precious Achiuwa on that team cause he can be a nasty defender at the 4 and stretch the floor. Toppin would be insane but idk if they can get him.

They should do something like this

Haliburton
Booker
Mikal
Milsap or Gallinari
Ayton

Then you have Rubio Oubre and Baynes leading the bench mob. Oubre would be a 6th man of the year candidate under this scenario.

[mpharris36]

Can’t blame them for losing cause of the situations their in, although the Suns look like they are starting to turn the corner.

LaVine plays for Jim Boylen.. the worst coach in the whole league. On top of their front office is the worst too.

Utah has been good since before Mitchell got there. Pretty sure if you put Mitchell on the Bulls or suns not much would change.

i mean I'll give a little bit of pass to lavine because the bulls are bad and Lauri had a bad year.

BUt the suns have no excuse to be bad. Booker, Ayton had a really good year, Oubre was good, Bridges/Rubio/Baynes are solid role players. There is no reason memphis is a 500 taem and the Suns are 13 games under if you just look at from a talent perspective.

And if Booker wants to be considered one of the best players he simply needs to start winning more.

I mean look at the Suns roster and the Utah roster...can you honestly tell me if you consider Mitch and Booker a wash. Does utah really have that much better of a roster?

I think its because Utah's best player has more of an impact than the suns best player.

Ayton was out for majority of the season and there was a lot of injuries on that team. That’s why they lost a lot of games. Their starting lineup still has the best net rating in the league. Pretty impressive considering that their the youngest team in the whole league. They just need to stay healthy and improve their bench. This same Suns team blew out Utah by 20 points. If Ayton never got suspended and hurt they would def be an 8th seed team or better. They played like a 43 win team with him on the court.

Utah has always been one of the best ran franchises in the league since before Mitchell got there. Literally won 51 games the season before they drafted him. Let’s not act like he’s carrying them and he’s the only reason why their winning. Dude has a great roster around him and is playing for one of the best coaches in the league. Mitchell is really good but he choked hard in the playoffs last year too. He is in the same tier as Booker and LaVine for me.

They were 14-21 without ayton (40% winning %)
They were 12-18 with ayton (40% winning %)

Its not a specific knock on booker or lavine types. They are good players. But there is a reason that young guys like Mitchell and Tatum win more games. They are more well rounded players.

[HEZI]

Yep and Ayton made KP look like Bargnani Oubre was torching them too. Suns are gonna be big time soon. Love their core

Who you like with their pick? I think they can go in a number of directions but personally I would love to see a guy like Haliburton there, he'd be such a perfect fit. They can even take Obi if they move up and that would add a whole different dynamic. If they could somehow add both

Definitely think Haliburton is a perfect fit there. Would be a great glue guy on that team. I also like Precious Achiuwa on that team cause he can be a nasty defender at the 4 and stretch the floor. Toppin would be insane but idk if they can get him.

They should do something like this

Haliburton
Booker
Mikal
Milsap or Gallinari
Ayton

Then you have Rubio Oubre and Baynes leading the bench mob. Oubre would be a 6th man of the year candidate under this scenario.

They do need to bolster that bench. I like Cam Johnson but I don't like how small they play off the bench with Johnson and Mikal. Saric has been useless over there, I have no idea what happened to that dude he was looking good in Philly then turned into straight trash after leaving there. They gotta add some better frontcourt depth and move either Cam or Mikal to guard

[3toheadmelo]

i mean I'll give a little bit of pass to lavine because the bulls are bad and Lauri had a bad year.

BUt the suns have no excuse to be bad. Booker, Ayton had a really good year, Oubre was good, Bridges/Rubio/Baynes are solid role players. There is no reason memphis is a 500 taem and the Suns are 13 games under if you just look at from a talent perspective.

And if Booker wants to be considered one of the best players he simply needs to start winning more.

I mean look at the Suns roster and the Utah roster...can you honestly tell me if you consider Mitch and Booker a wash. Does utah really have that much better of a roster?

I think its because Utah's best player has more of an impact than the suns best player.

Ayton was out for majority of the season and there was a lot of injuries on that team. That’s why they lost a lot of games. Their starting lineup still has the best net rating in the league. Pretty impressive considering that their the youngest team in the whole league. They just need to stay healthy and improve their bench. This same Suns team blew out Utah by 20 points. If Ayton never got suspended and hurt they would def be an 8th seed team or better. They played like a 43 win team with him on the court.

Utah has always been one of the best ran franchises in the league since before Mitchell got there. Literally won 51 games the season before they drafted him. Let’s not act like he’s carrying them and he’s the only reason why their winning. Dude has a great roster around him and is playing for one of the best coaches in the league. Mitchell is really good but he choked hard in the playoffs last year too. He is in the same tier as Booker and LaVine for me.

They were 14-21 without ayton (40% winning %)
They were 12-18 with ayton (40% winning %)

Its not a specific knock on booker or lavine types. They are good players. But there is a reason that young guys like Mitchell and Tatum win more games. They are more well rounded players.

Thats pretty meaningless considering that they brought back Ayton slowly, had him coming off the bench and was experimenting with different lineups.

Ayton off the court suns net rating is 22nd best in league. Ayton on the court is tied for 12 best in the league. Massive difference.

Since were are mainly talking about Booker I’ll even tell you what it is for Booker

Booker off the court: 26th best team in the league
Booker on the court: 14th best team in league. So he also has a massive effect on the team.

You really haven’t said anything to dispute the fact that the Jazz was winning games before Mitchell got there. 51 games won in the season prior they drafted him and have not won 51 games or more since. They have a great roster around him and is playing under one of the best coaches in the league. And I don’t recall Mitchell doing anything in last years playoffs. He was terrible. Who’s fault is that.


You can even say the same for Tatum, who I love. They are maximizing the strengths for them while having the perfect pieces around them to make them successful.

Still the fact remains that Mitchell is not some tier above Booker and LaVine. All great young players while 2 of them were under unfortunate circumstances for most of their careers while Mitchell was drafted to a winning team.

[3toheadmelo]

Who you like with their pick? I think they can go in a number of directions but personally I would love to see a guy like Haliburton there, he'd be such a perfect fit. They can even take Obi if they move up and that would add a whole different dynamic. If they could somehow add both

Definitely think Haliburton is a perfect fit there. Would be a great glue guy on that team. I also like Precious Achiuwa on that team cause he can be a nasty defender at the 4 and stretch the floor. Toppin would be insane but idk if they can get him.

They should do something like this

Haliburton
Booker
Mikal
Milsap or Gallinari
Ayton

Then you have Rubio Oubre and Baynes leading the bench mob. Oubre would be a 6th man of the year candidate under this scenario.

They do need to bolster that bench. I like Cam Johnson but I don't like how small they play off the bench with Johnson and Mikal. Saric has been useless over there, I have no idea what happened to that dude he was looking good in Philly then turned into straight trash after leaving there. They gotta add some better frontcourt depth and move either Cam or Mikal to guard

Facts Saric is trash now. They need to trade him. I don’t like Cam at the 4 either cause he’s too slow.. not sure what to do with him.
Mikal is too weak to be a long term 4 so I hope they upgrade their front court. If they get someone like Millsap or Gallinari that would be great.

Their bench is so weak and was one of the main reasons they ended up losing games. That should be their biggest focus this offseason after upgrading the 4 spot.

[mpharris36]

Ayton was out for majority of the season and there was a lot of injuries on that team. That’s why they lost a lot of games. Their starting lineup still has the best net rating in the league. Pretty impressive considering that their the youngest team in the whole league. They just need to stay healthy and improve their bench. This same Suns team blew out Utah by 20 points. If Ayton never got suspended and hurt they would def be an 8th seed team or better. They played like a 43 win team with him on the court.

Utah has always been one of the best ran franchises in the league since before Mitchell got there. Literally won 51 games the season before they drafted him. Let’s not act like he’s carrying them and he’s the only reason why their winning. Dude has a great roster around him and is playing for one of the best coaches in the league. Mitchell is really good but he choked hard in the playoffs last year too. He is in the same tier as Booker and LaVine for me.

They were 14-21 without ayton (40% winning %)
They were 12-18 with ayton (40% winning %)

Its not a specific knock on booker or lavine types. They are good players. But there is a reason that young guys like Mitchell and Tatum win more games. They are more well rounded players.

Thats pretty meaningless considering that they brought back Ayton slowly, had him coming off the bench and was experimenting with different lineups.

Ayton off the court suns net rating is 22nd best in league. Ayton on the court is tied for 12 best in the league. Massive difference.

Since were are mainly talking about Booker I’ll even tell you what it is for Booker

Booker off the court: 26th best team in the league
Booker on the court: 14th best team in league. So he also has a massive effect on the team.

You really haven’t said anything to dispute the fact that the Jazz was winning games before Mitchell got there. 51 games won in the season prior they drafted him and have not won 51 games or more since. They have a great roster around him and is playing under one of the best coaches in the league. And I don’t recall Mitchell doing anything in last years playoffs. He was terrible. Who’s fault is that.


You can even say the same for Tatum, who I love. They are maximizing the strengths for them while having the perfect pieces around them to make them successful.

Still the fact remains that Mitchell is not some tier above Booker and LaVine. All great young players while 2 of them were under unfortunate circumstances for most of their careers while Mitchell was drafted to a winning team.

I agree that Booker and Mitchell aren't in differnt tiers. I was just suggesting if I had the choice I would go with Mitchell over Booker if I am given the choice because he's a bit more versitle of a player.

You also can't get on Mitchell for being the best player on a playoff team when Booker hasn't even won 30 games in a season before in his NBA career.

Young players do usually struggle in the post season early in there careers because its a different animal. I wont hold it against Mitchell or Tatum struggling a bit in the post season when they are consistently getting to the most season. Eventually they will need to take there team to the next level. But they are already the best player on a playoff team.

I would rather have that then the best player on a team that doesn't win 30 games.

Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't acquire Booker if I had the chance, I would. If given the choice I would prefer Mitchell.

[3toheadmelo]

They were 14-21 without ayton (40% winning %)
They were 12-18 with ayton (40% winning %)

Its not a specific knock on booker or lavine types. They are good players. But there is a reason that young guys like Mitchell and Tatum win more games. They are more well rounded players.

Thats pretty meaningless considering that they brought back Ayton slowly, had him coming off the bench and was experimenting with different lineups.

Ayton off the court suns net rating is 22nd best in league. Ayton on the court is tied for 12 best in the league. Massive difference.

Since were are mainly talking about Booker I’ll even tell you what it is for Booker

Booker off the court: 26th best team in the league
Booker on the court: 14th best team in league. So he also has a massive effect on the team.

You really haven’t said anything to dispute the fact that the Jazz was winning games before Mitchell got there. 51 games won in the season prior they drafted him and have not won 51 games or more since. They have a great roster around him and is playing under one of the best coaches in the league. And I don’t recall Mitchell doing anything in last years playoffs. He was terrible. Who’s fault is that.


You can even say the same for Tatum, who I love. They are maximizing the strengths for them while having the perfect pieces around them to make them successful.

Still the fact remains that Mitchell is not some tier above Booker and LaVine. All great young players while 2 of them were under unfortunate circumstances for most of their careers while Mitchell was drafted to a winning team.

I agree that Booker and Mitchell aren't in differnt tiers. I was just suggesting if I had the choice I would go with Mitchell over Booker if I am given the choice because he's a bit more versitle of a player.

You also can't get on Mitchell for being the best player on a playoff team when Booker hasn't even won 30 games in a season before in his NBA career.

Young players do usually struggle in the post season early in there careers because its a different animal. I wont hold it against Mitchell or Tatum struggling a bit in the post season when they are consistently getting to the most season. Eventually they will need to take there team to the next level. But they are already the best player on a playoff team.

I would rather have that then the best player on a team that doesn't win 30 games.

Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't acquire Booker if I had the chance, I would. If given the choice I would prefer Mitchell.

I don’t really have a preference between them 3 and would love for the Knicks to have someone of their caliber but imo I think you’re being a bit harsh on Booker given the circumstances he was placed in. I strongly believe that if Booker was on the Jazz, the narrative surrounding him would be much different. Mitchell was already placed into a great situation when he got drafted. It is not like he turned that team around like Carmelo did on the Nuggets when he got drafted. Still, Mitchell deserves a lot of credit for being the best player on a playoff team, but again he didn’t turn a losing team into a winning one. Instead they are winning about the same games they did before he got there.

[newyorker4ever]

Aytons suspension and injuries prevented that but when he came back they blew out Dallas by 29 points and their starting lineup has the best net rating in the league Next year you will see lol

Haha, so you are doubling down then? I joke with you but nobody can say they don't have a ton of good young talent on that team with all the draft picks they've added over the last 4-5-6 years of drafting in the high lottery or in the lottery. Now they need to put it all together and find that one player that steps into the lead role and not only plays great but makes his teammates better as well. The Hawks are right there with a ton of good young talent.

I expect them to make a big jump next year if they can stay healthy and nobody gets suspended lol. They looked pretty good when everybody was healthy

They're about to add another lottery pick to a team full of young lottery picks and other young players so they should start playing well together the more they play with each other (NoHomo) I'm thinking they'll go PG if there's one they like sitting there at their pick with only having R.Rubio as the only legit PG on the team as of now. They could end up with one of the PG's we've been talking about for the Knicks in T.Haliburton, K.Hayes or C.Anothony.

[newyorker4ever]

I'd rather hope we don't draft him and let somebody else spend time developing him. We got one big with limited offense, drafting another especially with a lotto pick doesn't make much sense. If they want to gamble on a big like that with a later pick then fine but we gotta aim higher with our lotto pick. If we really needed a big like him then I can understand but we don't we really don't need him. If we want to take a big with that lotto pick then it needs to be somebody who is brining more offensive versatility from day one, you can have those same improvement expectations from a player that is coming in with better tools already and then hope he keeps getting even better with those tools he currently has. A project big makes absolutely no sense for the Knicks right now, none!

Can't say you don't make a lot of sense here but i'm just not sold on Toppin which is how Onyeka's name even came out in this conversation. I love Toppin's athleticism and think his shooting will be alright but i want players that play defense. Like i've already said multiple times, i wanna build this team the way the Jazz and Heat build their teams which is with multiple defenders but not that play only defense but also have offensive games. I'm a huge Jimmy Butler fan and when everyone was on here only talking about KD and Kyrie during free agency i was talking about Kawhi and Butler.

There's nothing wrong with that approach but then we gotta scrap the whole "youth and development" plan. Those teams are built on experience not youth. Their success comes from having older vets who have been in the league and played in big games and are experienced enough to know how to win. I have no issue with the Knicks building a playoff team as long as it's not too costly to do it and we still have a good enough core to keep building on over time.

The Jazz are built with R.Gobert, D.Mitchell, J.Ingles and R.O'Neale as 4 of their starting 5 players who all came in through the draft or were picked up as UDFA's.

[newyorker4ever]

Definitely think Haliburton is a perfect fit there. Would be a great glue guy on that team. I also like Precious Achiuwa on that team cause he can be a nasty defender at the 4 and stretch the floor. Toppin would be insane but idk if they can get him.

They should do something like this

Haliburton
Booker
Mikal
Milsap or Gallinari
Ayton

Then you have Rubio Oubre and Baynes leading the bench mob. Oubre would be a 6th man of the year candidate under this scenario.

They do need to bolster that bench. I like Cam Johnson but I don't like how small they play off the bench with Johnson and Mikal. Saric has been useless over there, I have no idea what happened to that dude he was looking good in Philly then turned into straight trash after leaving there. They gotta add some better frontcourt depth and move either Cam or Mikal to guard

Facts Saric is trash now. They need to trade him. I don’t like Cam at the 4 either cause he’s too slow.. not sure what to do with him.
Mikal is too weak to be a long term 4 so I hope they upgrade their front court. If they get someone like Millsap or Gallinari that would be great.

Their bench is so weak and was one of the main reasons they ended up losing games. That should be their biggest focus this offseason after upgrading the 4 spot.

They can have J.Randle for C.Johnson and D.Saric. Two forwards who can shoot the rock....yes please.

[HEZI]

Can't say you don't make a lot of sense here but i'm just not sold on Toppin which is how Onyeka's name even came out in this conversation. I love Toppin's athleticism and think his shooting will be alright but i want players that play defense. Like i've already said multiple times, i wanna build this team the way the Jazz and Heat build their teams which is with multiple defenders but not that play only defense but also have offensive games. I'm a huge Jimmy Butler fan and when everyone was on here only talking about KD and Kyrie during free agency i was talking about Kawhi and Butler.

There's nothing wrong with that approach but then we gotta scrap the whole "youth and development" plan. Those teams are built on experience not youth. Their success comes from having older vets who have been in the league and played in big games and are experienced enough to know how to win. I have no issue with the Knicks building a playoff team as long as it's not too costly to do it and we still have a good enough core to keep building on over time.

The Jazz are built with R.Gobert, D.Mitchell, J.Ingles and R.O'Neale as 4 of their starting 5 players who all came in through the draft or were picked up as UDFA's.

Gobert is 28 and been in the league for a while now
Ingles is 32
Oneal is 26 and he's a fringe starter. Meh
Mike Conley is 32
Bogdanovic is 31
Ed Davis is 30
Jordan Clarkson is 27

[mpharris36]

Thats pretty meaningless considering that they brought back Ayton slowly, had him coming off the bench and was experimenting with different lineups.

Ayton off the court suns net rating is 22nd best in league. Ayton on the court is tied for 12 best in the league. Massive difference.

Since were are mainly talking about Booker I’ll even tell you what it is for Booker

Booker off the court: 26th best team in the league
Booker on the court: 14th best team in league. So he also has a massive effect on the team.

You really haven’t said anything to dispute the fact that the Jazz was winning games before Mitchell got there. 51 games won in the season prior they drafted him and have not won 51 games or more since. They have a great roster around him and is playing under one of the best coaches in the league. And I don’t recall Mitchell doing anything in last years playoffs. He was terrible. Who’s fault is that.


You can even say the same for Tatum, who I love. They are maximizing the strengths for them while having the perfect pieces around them to make them successful.

Still the fact remains that Mitchell is not some tier above Booker and LaVine. All great young players while 2 of them were under unfortunate circumstances for most of their careers while Mitchell was drafted to a winning team.

I agree that Booker and Mitchell aren't in differnt tiers. I was just suggesting if I had the choice I would go with Mitchell over Booker if I am given the choice because he's a bit more versitle of a player.

You also can't get on Mitchell for being the best player on a playoff team when Booker hasn't even won 30 games in a season before in his NBA career.

Young players do usually struggle in the post season early in there careers because its a different animal. I wont hold it against Mitchell or Tatum struggling a bit in the post season when they are consistently getting to the most season. Eventually they will need to take there team to the next level. But they are already the best player on a playoff team.

I would rather have that then the best player on a team that doesn't win 30 games.

Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't acquire Booker if I had the chance, I would. If given the choice I would prefer Mitchell.

I don’t really have a preference between them 3 and would love for the Knicks to have someone of their caliber but imo I think you’re being a bit harsh on Booker given the circumstances he was placed in. I strongly believe that if Booker was on the Jazz, the narrative surrounding him would be much different. Mitchell was already placed into a great situation when he got drafted. It is not like he turned that team around like Carmelo did on the Nuggets when he got drafted. Still, Mitchell deserves a lot of credit for being the best player on a playoff team, but again he didn’t turn a losing team into a winning one. Instead they are winning about the same games they did before he got there.

thats a fair take. But when is it time to get on Booker for not winning. Is it next year if they don't make the playoffs?

I think we all agree Ayton took a big step. They have talent. At some point that does need to translate to wins.

[3toheadmelo]

I agree that Booker and Mitchell aren't in differnt tiers. I was just suggesting if I had the choice I would go with Mitchell over Booker if I am given the choice because he's a bit more versitle of a player.

You also can't get on Mitchell for being the best player on a playoff team when Booker hasn't even won 30 games in a season before in his NBA career.

Young players do usually struggle in the post season early in there careers because its a different animal. I wont hold it against Mitchell or Tatum struggling a bit in the post season when they are consistently getting to the most season. Eventually they will need to take there team to the next level. But they are already the best player on a playoff team.

I would rather have that then the best player on a team that doesn't win 30 games.

Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't acquire Booker if I had the chance, I would. If given the choice I would prefer Mitchell.

I don’t really have a preference between them 3 and would love for the Knicks to have someone of their caliber but imo I think you’re being a bit harsh on Booker given the circumstances he was placed in. I strongly believe that if Booker was on the Jazz, the narrative surrounding him would be much different. Mitchell was already placed into a great situation when he got drafted. It is not like he turned that team around like Carmelo did on the Nuggets when he got drafted. Still, Mitchell deserves a lot of credit for being the best player on a playoff team, but again he didn’t turn a losing team into a winning one. Instead they are winning about the same games they did before he got there.

thats a fair take. But when is it time to get on Booker for not winning. Is it next year if they don't make the playoffs?

I think we all agree Ayton took a big step. They have talent. At some point that does need to translate to wins.

Next season is big for Booker and the Suns. If they are healthy and still fail to make the playoffs... then yeah it’s definitely fair to start criticizing him and question his true impact. I guess we’ll see. Imo I think they make that jump next season.