Woj: Some Players getting cold feet about playing in Orlando

[NBAFan93]

I run a school with about 100 teachers. We are online now, but in August we will be back on campus. If a teacher says "even with the safety precautions, I don't feel safe in returning" I would find a new teacher and let that one go. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Why are these guys different?

If that teacher had co-morbidities and/or was 65+ you'd be acting like an ass and likely get sued into oblivious and lose.

I don’t know about the lawsuit thing. If something is an essential job function you can’t be sued for not hiring or firing people who can’t or won’t do it.

And I don’t think “being at a higher risk of having serious complications to a virus that you may or may not catch in the future” counts as a disability under the Americans w/ Disabilities Act. You can’t claim a disability for something that might happen.

I guess someone will eventually get fired and some lawyer will pick up the case and sue and it may go to the Supreme Court, but I just don’t see how the economy can function w/ that type of thing being allowed.

Basically every company that needs workers physically there to do their job now has to just pay anyone who is old or has an underlying health condition to stay home for free? For as long as they say they are afraid? No way.

And good luck finding anyone to hire those types of individuals if the threat of them doing that (suing to stay home for free) doesn’t get nipped in the bud real fast.

[homecourtloss]

To me this sounds more like, "do I really want to go live in Disney World for the next 3 months" and how it impacts the following seasons schedule more than it does health concerns.

I understand it but at the same time, restaurants are opening, gyms are opening, theme parks are opening.. can't live in this fear forever.

100% this. Who here thinks these players aren’t out and about everywhere just like everyone else? These guys are hooking up and doing whatever. Health concerns are a cover for lifestyle disruption

Media is covering for the players too and will continue to do so as it makes their life easier if they're still getting paid and dont have to churn out weekly or daily content. Silver doesnt seem to care and knows he has no power anyways. Owners seem fine with not playing too (or at least have remained quiet). They are living the good life right now- endless money and no responsibilities. A bubble at Disney, or hell any sort of job commitment after getting a taste of being young, rich, and retired would sound like a downgrade.

Yup. Everyday people have also gotten used to working from home and many dont want to go back. These people can of course be productive (maybe) from home. This has gone in long enough where we have a mindset shift and here we are.

Meanwhile, news of the protests is dying down, and stories about Corona are back

[pipfan]

My example of my school and a teacher not wanting to come in due to safety (after we have met all guidelines) is just that-an example. It goes for hundreds of industries

By the way, it's an international school, no union and we get our teachers from overseas, so we can't just replace one from a standing pool.

Basically, someone could claim (according to the logic I am reading from some) that "I don't feel safe, I won't return until there is a proven vaccine" and they should be paid indefinitely? Business are suffering already-we had to take our a million dollar line of credit just to pay the bills-due to unpaid tuition.

[NBAFan93]

100% this. Who here thinks these players aren’t out and about everywhere just like everyone else? These guys are hooking up and doing whatever. Health concerns are a cover for lifestyle disruption

Media is covering for the players too and will continue to do so as it makes their life easier if they're still getting paid and dont have to churn out weekly or daily content. Silver doesnt seem to care and knows he has no power anyways. Owners seem fine with not playing too (or at least have remained quiet). They are living the good life right now- endless money and no responsibilities. A bubble at Disney, or hell any sort of job commitment after getting a taste of being young, rich, and retired would sound like a downgrade.

Yup. Everyday people have also gotten used to working from home and many dont want to go back. These people can of course be productive (maybe) from home. This has gone in long enough where we have a mindset shift and here we are.

Meanwhile, news of the protests is dying down, and stories about Corona are back

Yeah the media is the biggest hypocritical joke ever now - spent two weeks praising and supporting giant protests all across the country, and now they want us to go back into our little covid fear bubble afraid to go to the grocery store again? Gimme a break.

Their agenda pushing has been completely exposed and no one takes them seriously at all.

CNN had some decent coverage of the first weekend of the protests, but they eventually morphed right back into the political propaganda machine they were pre-protests after about 5 days. Even young children see their hypocrisy. My 7 year old niece was calling them out.

[nedleeds]

Or don't. Nobody is going to arrest you for declining to fulfill your contract. If you show up and play, you get a game check. If you don't, you don't.

This is totally voluntary just like most jobs.

[NBAFan93]

My example of my school and a teacher not wanting to come in due to safety (after we have met all guidelines) is just that-an example. It goes for hundreds of industries

By the way, it's an international school, no union and we get our teachers from overseas, so we can't just replace one from a standing pool.

Basically, someone could claim (according to the logic I am reading from some) that "I don't feel safe, I won't return until there is a proven vaccine" and they should be paid indefinitely? Business are suffering already-we had to take our a million dollar line of credit just to pay the bills-due to unpaid tuition.

It may take a law being passed by Congress or a Supreme Court ruling to prevent people from being able to do that in the United States, but it needs to happen or capitalism as we know it will be destroyed.

Businesses won’t be able to function, develop, etc as they won’t be able to effectively employ workers w/o fear of them turning into non-producing cash sucking liabilities that they can’t fire when they need to.

[NBAFan93]

That is fine but those NBA players should be ready to lose a significant portion of their salary for doing it.

If NBA players are really serious then all of them should sit out because a lot of them have families. I just know that those same NBA players will not be happy losing money when NBA will lose money too.

You have to choose. It is not like NBA players are poor. Cancel the season and play the next one from December.

why should the players lose their salary? These guys have guaranteed contracts and should not be forced to play during a pandemic if they choose. This doesn’t just effect the players, but they also have to worry about their families health. If someone like Joe Ingles decides not to play, he shouldn’t be penalized. Players deserve the right to choose.

I don’t understand why people side with the owners regarding salary. A player getting paid has zero effect on the fans. The owners have an enormous amount of money, if they sign a guy to a guaranteed contract, they’re obligated to pay the full amount.

Contracts are guaranteed for injury, but not everything.
Further, there is a Force Majeure provision in the labor contract that has kicked in. The owners lawyers aren't stupid.

Yes the owners can invoke that clause and invalidate CBA. If enough players don’t want to play, that is what they will do. Think there was a deadline to do it 60 days after play stopped and they extended it another 60 days. Or something like that.

[homecourtloss]

My example of my school and a teacher not wanting to come in due to safety (after we have met all guidelines) is just that-an example. It goes for hundreds of industries

By the way, it's an international school, no union and we get our teachers from overseas, so we can't just replace one from a standing pool.

Basically, someone could claim (according to the logic I am reading from some) that "I don't feel safe, I won't return until there is a proven vaccine" and they should be paid indefinitely? Business are suffering already-we had to take our a million dollar line of credit just to pay the bills-due to unpaid tuition.

It may take a law being passed by Congress or a Supreme Court ruling to prevent people from being able to do that in the United States, but it needs to happen or capitalism as we know it will be destroyed.

Businesses won’t be able to function, develop, etc as they won’t be able to effectively employ workers w/o fear of them turning into non-producing cash sucking liabilities that they can’t fire when they need to.

Exactly. Meanwhile, people will still demand all the services they’ve been used, the same food supply, etc., etc., forever while spouting off “All you care about ie money!” when the same system give them enviably cushy lives full of creature comforts, entertainment, etc. for the most part.

[twyzted]

Was there really no other place to do this? How much of this was throwing a bone to ESPN's parent conglomerate versus actual logistical concerns?

I feel like if they truly put personnel health first, they wouldn't be doing this in such a stupid state where the citizens have been roaming freely since early on yet if a player or hell, camera person steps outside they're at risk of losing their job.

Name a more isolated place with the ability to stage that many games and house that many people while keeping them isolated from the rest of the world? I'm not sure that other place exists.

I'm not sure they should be playing, but if they are going to, this is by far the most logical, safest location to do so.

apparently the nba contacted the basketball association here in iceland about hosting rest of the season but the nba decided stay in usa. We have arenas, not nba standard but they would have worked since no audiance allowed and we have many arenas in the capital area.

And there have been no new cases of covid since last friday and before that maybe 1-2 per week for 3 weeks maybe. But it would have worked we have hotels. They could have quarentined for 2 weeks then given the status now they would not have to be locked in a hotel bubble

[SlimD235]

Leak the names

Orlando Magic players

[Texas Chuck]

Was there really no other place to do this? How much of this was throwing a bone to ESPN's parent conglomerate versus actual logistical concerns?

I feel like if they truly put personnel health first, they wouldn't be doing this in such a stupid state where the citizens have been roaming freely since early on yet if a player or hell, camera person steps outside they're at risk of losing their job.

Name a more isolated place with the ability to stage that many games and house that many people while keeping them isolated from the rest of the world? I'm not sure that other place exists.

I'm not sure they should be playing, but if they are going to, this is by far the most logical, safest location to do so.

apparently the nba contacted the basketball association here in iceland about hosting rest of the season but the nba decided stay in usa. We have arenas, not nba standard but they would have worked since no audiance allowed and we have many arenas in the capital area.

And there have been no new cases of covid since last friday and before that maybe 1-2 per week for 3 weeks maybe. But it would have worked we have hotels. They could have quarentined for 2 weeks then given the status now they would not have to be locked in a hotel bubble

Thanks! I stand corrected. Iceland potentially a possibility assuming the Icelandic government was willing to take the risk on that many people coming from the US/Canada and other parts of Europe. You would know better than I how much of an obstacle that might be.

[old skool]

Lots of limited thinking and over reaction here, in my opinion.

1. The NBA has been having discussions with 40-50 players (10%-12%?) who have concerns about the planned restart. IMO, that is a good thing, something that every employer should do. That forum gives players a voice, and gives the NBA the chance to make improvements to the plan where possible.

2. These discussions come after extensive discussions with team owners, GMs, a group of star players, and NBPA reps, but before the entire plan is 100% finalized. IMO that seems to be a measured approach that will lead to the best possible outcome. The NBA is trying to get buy-in from as many of the people involved as possible.

3. The 40-50 players expressing concerns about the planned restart have not formally petitioned the NBPA to get out of the planned 22 team start. IMO this sounds like a small group of players are expressing concerns, but not actually asking their players association to get anything changed.

4. The majority of players questioning the wisdom of the restart plans are on teams that have virtually no chance of contending. IMO, it seems valid to question why a team should do the strenuously hard work to get back into NBA game shape when they are virtually assured of either missing the playoffs or ending up as cannon fodder for a much better first round opponent. A well conditioned NBA team playing out the season is a much different proposition than a laid off NBA team working their butts off to get back to NBA shape for questionable (in their minds) reasons.

Wow. Labor and management are not in total agreement about the best ways to operate. It should be so easy for 30 ownership groups and 500 or so NBPA member highly paid employees to agree completely on one of the most complicated mid-season overhauls of a professional sports season in the history of mankind.

Let's criticize one side or the other with arguments and comments that take less than a minute to develop. Let's apply extreme labels to one side or the other with simplistic characterizations of their motives, without hearing a single word from anyone involved in the discussions. Let's waste the opportunity to learn from everyone involved; to learn both facts not known to us and perspectives we have not yet considered. Let's pretend that we grasp even 10% of the issues at hand in these discussions.

[In2ition]

One of them is probably Devin Booker.

I don't think so at all, but I'm curious what your thought process is on this?

[dhsilv2]

100% this. Who here thinks these players aren’t out and about everywhere just like everyone else? These guys are hooking up and doing whatever. Health concerns are a cover for lifestyle disruption

Media is covering for the players too and will continue to do so as it makes their life easier if they're still getting paid and dont have to churn out weekly or daily content. Silver doesnt seem to care and knows he has no power anyways. Owners seem fine with not playing too (or at least have remained quiet). They are living the good life right now- endless money and no responsibilities. A bubble at Disney, or hell any sort of job commitment after getting a taste of being young, rich, and retired would sound like a downgrade.

Yup. Everyday people have also gotten used to working from home and many dont want to go back. These people can of course be productive (maybe) from home. This has gone in long enough where we have a mindset shift and here we are.

Meanwhile, news of the protests is dying down, and stories about Corona are back

If anything this has proven to a HELL of a lot of companies that working in the office is insanely inefficient and ineffective with only a few exceptions.

[dhsilv2]

Media is covering for the players too and will continue to do so as it makes their life easier if they're still getting paid and dont have to churn out weekly or daily content. Silver doesnt seem to care and knows he has no power anyways. Owners seem fine with not playing too (or at least have remained quiet). They are living the good life right now- endless money and no responsibilities. A bubble at Disney, or hell any sort of job commitment after getting a taste of being young, rich, and retired would sound like a downgrade.

Yup. Everyday people have also gotten used to working from home and many dont want to go back. These people can of course be productive (maybe) from home. This has gone in long enough where we have a mindset shift and here we are.

Meanwhile, news of the protests is dying down, and stories about Corona are back

Yeah the media is the biggest hypocritical joke ever now - spent two weeks praising and supporting giant protests all across the country, and now they want us to go back into our little covid fear bubble afraid to go to the grocery store again? Gimme a break.

Their agenda pushing has been completely exposed and no one takes them seriously at all.

CNN had some decent coverage of the first weekend of the protests, but they eventually morphed right back into the political propaganda machine they were pre-protests after about 5 days. Even young children see their hypocrisy. My 7 year old niece was calling them out.

Don't recall a day that corona and the protests weren't on CNN's main page in relation to how the protests would lead to more of it...

[dhsilv2]

My example of my school and a teacher not wanting to come in due to safety (after we have met all guidelines) is just that-an example. It goes for hundreds of industries

By the way, it's an international school, no union and we get our teachers from overseas, so we can't just replace one from a standing pool.

Basically, someone could claim (according to the logic I am reading from some) that "I don't feel safe, I won't return until there is a proven vaccine" and they should be paid indefinitely? Business are suffering already-we had to take our a million dollar line of credit just to pay the bills-due to unpaid tuition.

It may take a law being passed by Congress or a Supreme Court ruling to prevent people from being able to do that in the United States, but it needs to happen or capitalism as we know it will be destroyed.

Businesses won’t be able to function, develop, etc as they won’t be able to effectively employ workers w/o fear of them turning into non-producing cash sucking liabilities that they can’t fire when they need to.

It's capitalism, adapt or die! We could make it so nobody who works together will ever be in the same room again and our economy will keep growing.

[levon]

Name a more isolated place with the ability to stage that many games and house that many people while keeping them isolated from the rest of the world? I'm not sure that other place exists.

I'm not sure they should be playing, but if they are going to, this is by far the most logical, safest location to do so.

apparently the nba contacted the basketball association here in iceland about hosting rest of the season but the nba decided stay in usa. We have arenas, not nba standard but they would have worked since no audiance allowed and we have many arenas in the capital area.

And there have been no new cases of covid since last friday and before that maybe 1-2 per week for 3 weeks maybe. But it would have worked we have hotels. They could have quarentined for 2 weeks then given the status now they would not have to be locked in a hotel bubble

Thanks! I stand corrected. Iceland potentially a possibility assuming the Icelandic government was willing to take the risk on that many people coming from the US/Canada and other parts of Europe. You would know better than I how much of an obstacle that might be.

twyzted brings up a good point of arena size not mattering as much since there are no fans anyway. I think flying outside of the US would bring its own logistical challenges. And since Disney owns ESPN, they have mutual investment with the NBA to keep it on in the face of adversity. I just don't want anyone to feint that they're putting personnel health and safety first by choosing this location. This was obviously primarily a cold business decision, and the NBA has definitely done stringent work to manage the health risks with policies.

[twyzted]

Name a more isolated place with the ability to stage that many games and house that many people while keeping them isolated from the rest of the world? I'm not sure that other place exists.

I'm not sure they should be playing, but if they are going to, this is by far the most logical, safest location to do so.

apparently the nba contacted the basketball association here in iceland about hosting rest of the season but the nba decided stay in usa. We have arenas, not nba standard but they would have worked since no audiance allowed and we have many arenas in the capital area.

And there have been no new cases of covid since last friday and before that maybe 1-2 per week for 3 weeks maybe. But it would have worked we have hotels. They could have quarentined for 2 weeks then given the status now they would not have to be locked in a hotel bubble

Thanks! I stand corrected. Iceland potentially a possibility assuming the Icelandic government was willing to take the risk on that many people coming from the US/Canada and other parts of Europe. You would know better than I how much of an obstacle that might be.

The government would have allowed it im fairly certain about that. It would have been a massive boost for the economy here.
We have plenty hotel space, we have maybe 15-20 arenas in the capital region who would atleast fit a basketball court but they are no bigger than 500-5000 capacity not that it matters if no one is allowed to attend the games. Travel would be no problem its all in the space of 1 borough in new york.

Travel time would not be that bad from usa it took me 4-5 hours to fly to boston so at most 9-10 hours from west coast (i think). Maybe they would have to quarantine for 2 weeks maybe it couldve been negotiated so they did not need that.

A friend of mine was working in norway the other day and when he came back he quarentined himself before he went home to his family but i think its up to the people to decide if the quarantine or not (im not 100% on this though)

I would have loved it if they wouldve come here.

[JayMKE]

I think the issue is more the restrictions of "the bubble", not being able to leave and see friends/family outside of it more so than the overall safety about playing. Something that can be worked out I think with their concerns heard.

[Smitty731]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the NBA did not consider playing in a bubble outside of the United States. Not sure where Iceland came from, but that wasn't a thing.

I can also tell you that only three sites were under any sort of serious consideration: Walt Disney World, Las Vegas and Houston. Houston came in too late and Las Vegas had way too many concerns to be worked through. What landed the NBA at WDW is that WDW is private property and can restrict access far easier than anywhere else can.