Political Roundtable Part XXVIII

[montestewart]

"RACIALLY TINGED"?!?!?!?! What kind of cowardly cop out language is that?

Tinge, from the Middle English tange, meaning "the smell of burning hemp," from the Old French tanguy, meaning "with torches and a rope," from the Middle Earth tainkai, meaning "to strangle and roast"

[Pointgod]

"RACIALLY TINGED"?!?!?!?! What kind of cowardly cop out language is that?

Yeah the media has learned nothing from 2016. Not only is he racist dude is pretty much a white supremacist.

[pancakes3]

build the wall, muslim ban, sh*thole countries, Puerto Rico, caravan rapists, children in cages, very fine people on both sides, CHYNAVIRUS and those are just the highlights. any one of those is a career-killer. glad that trump could make america great again and bring back immunity from consequences for blatant racism.

"he says what other politicians are afraid to say. everyone's thinking it, he has the balls to say it!"

or the more cowardly

"while that is sad, the nitty gritty of his policy (abortion or handwavy economic arguments that (1) have nothing to do with Trump; (2) have nothing to do with the republican platform; or (3) are not grounded in facts) benefits me directly, so it balances out."

cool. real cool.

[pancakes3]

“America, in 2016, elected a barroom brawler. Does America need in its president what it needed in 2016? Times have changed,”

- Black aide in the WH

hey man, do whatever you need to sleep at night.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/12/trump-team-race-314720

[pancakes3]

Our police have been letting us live in peace.

- Donald J. Trump. June 8, 2020 in the midst of civil unrest over the fact that police afford white citizens racial preference when it comes to enforcement.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-roundtable-law-enforcement/

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Pointgod]

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**** John Bolton. He chose to fight a congressional supoena instead of being a patriot and telling congress what he knows to hold Trump accountable. The guy is an absolute scumbag that only cares about himself and money.

[dckingsfan]

I wanted to float something out here...

I am all for defund and reimagine the PF. But I am thinking this should apply to any local, state or federal program or institution.

I am going to pick schools as a comparison example (go figure ).

A local community has a theoretical population of 100K. They have a failing school system and a failing PF.

Defunding and then reimaging the PF makes total sense. Rebuild it against what you actually want to accomplish now. The previous PF was probably established with different goals. That doesn't mean you can't have a PF that unionized - it would just need to be a different union with different rules and protections.

Same with a failing school or school district (SD). Defunding and reimagining makes total sense here as well. Rebuild it to look at the current objectives. The previous SD was probably established with goals from the 50s. Reimagine what that SD should accomplish now. Again, that doesn't mean you can't have a SD that unionized - it would just need to be a different union with different rules and protections.

The losers in this might be individual police officers or teachers. The biggest loser is going to be the unions. To do this the local governments would need cover from the voters to take this on. Are we ready for that.

And if we are honest, defunding and reimagining our institutions need to happen fairly often given the rapidly increasing changes to the world.

Thoughts?

[Pointgod]

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[Wizardspride]

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[dckingsfan]

Unproven. While the majority of people who have been infected and survived COVID form antibodies in response to the infection, we still don't have evidence that those antibodies prevent reinfection and if so, for how long. This from folks at NIH who are tracking this carefully.

Okay then. We can forget about a vaccine. No immunity, no vaccine. We must remain locked down forever. Enjoy the rest of your life behind closed doors, never being in a group of 10 or more.

Also, your point is incorrect. There is indeed a lot of proof that contracting the virus gives you immunity. Immunity may not last forever, but typical immunity for coronaviruses is a minimum of 2 years. And reinfections after that result in much milder symptoms.

Taking this over here because we are well out of the realm of hoops now.

Just because the vaccine is far off and immunity is limited we should not equate that to locking down forever. And I haven't seen any governor propose that. So, we aren't locking this thing down again (except in limited areas).

There are definitely things we can do. Test, trace and quarantine. We can mask. We can protect our senior living centers.

Yeah, 35K unmasked at a basketball game right now would be a really bad idea. But given what has happened, the cat is out of the bag. I don't think anyone stops that - except the players possibly.

[payitforward]

& I used to feel critical of Lindsay Graham!

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

[Ruzious]

I wanted to float something out here...

I am all for defund and reimagine the PF. But I am thinking this should apply to any local, state or federal program or institution.

I am going to pick schools as a comparison example (go figure ).

A local community has a theoretical population of 100K. They have a failing school system and a failing PF.

Defunding and then reimaging the PF makes total sense. Rebuild it against what you actually want to accomplish now. The previous PF was probably established with different goals. That doesn't mean you can't have a PF that unionized - it would just need to be a different union with different rules and protections.

Same with a failing school or school district (SD). Defunding and reimagining makes total sense here as well. Rebuild it to look at the current objectives. The previous SD was probably established with goals from the 50s. Reimagine what that SD should accomplish now. Again, that doesn't mean you can't have a SD that unionized - it would just need to be a different union with different rules and protections.

The losers in this might be individual police officers or teachers. The biggest loser is going to be the unions. To do this the local governments would need cover from the voters to take this on. Are we ready for that.

And if we are honest, defunding and reimagining our institutions need to happen fairly often given the rapidly increasing changes to the world.

Thoughts?

I guess I don't understand exactly what the goal is. What do you expect to accomplish from this other than to weaken the police unions?

[Zonkerbl]

I wanted to float something out here...

I am all for defund and reimagine the PF. But I am thinking this should apply to any local, state or federal program or institution.

I am going to pick schools as a comparison example (go figure ).

A local community has a theoretical population of 100K. They have a failing school system and a failing PF.

Defunding and then reimaging the PF makes total sense. Rebuild it against what you actually want to accomplish now. The previous PF was probably established with different goals. That doesn't mean you can't have a PF that unionized - it would just need to be a different union with different rules and protections.

Same with a failing school or school district (SD). Defunding and reimagining makes total sense here as well. Rebuild it to look at the current objectives. The previous SD was probably established with goals from the 50s. Reimagine what that SD should accomplish now. Again, that doesn't mean you can't have a SD that unionized - it would just need to be a different union with different rules and protections.

The losers in this might be individual police officers or teachers. The biggest loser is going to be the unions. To do this the local governments would need cover from the voters to take this on. Are we ready for that.

And if we are honest, defunding and reimagining our institutions need to happen fairly often given the rapidly increasing changes to the world.

Thoughts?

Currently the US public education system has two functions -
1) To train nuclear bomb scientists to compete with the Soviets
2) to serve as a means of funneling black boys into the industrial prison system

It is absolutely part of the slightly evolved slave catcher system we inherited from the Civil War and should be part of the reimagining and rebuilding process.

[dckingsfan]

I wanted to float something out here...

I am all for defund and reimagine the PF. But I am thinking this should apply to any local, state or federal program or institution.

I am going to pick schools as a comparison example (go figure ).

A local community has a theoretical population of 100K. They have a failing school system and a failing PF.

Defunding and then reimaging the PF makes total sense. Rebuild it against what you actually want to accomplish now. The previous PF was probably established with different goals. That doesn't mean you can't have a PF that unionized - it would just need to be a different union with different rules and protections.

Same with a failing school or school district (SD). Defunding and reimagining makes total sense here as well. Rebuild it to look at the current objectives. The previous SD was probably established with goals from the 50s. Reimagine what that SD should accomplish now. Again, that doesn't mean you can't have a SD that unionized - it would just need to be a different union with different rules and protections.

The losers in this might be individual police officers or teachers. The biggest loser is going to be the unions. To do this the local governments would need cover from the voters to take this on. Are we ready for that.

And if we are honest, defunding and reimagining our institutions need to happen fairly often given the rapidly increasing changes to the world.

Thoughts?

I guess I don't understand exactly what the goal is. What do you expect to accomplish from this other than to weaken the police unions?

It was more of a general question.

With the PDs, we want to "temporarily" remove unions and reconstruct them to reduce the excessive use of force, have training to treat all people with respect, de-militarize them, increase community outreach, reduce unnecessary searches and seizures, as much as possible break down the "blue wall". And if possible, add mental health experts, a domestic abuse experts, drug addiction specialists and social workers to respond to those issues rather than police.

Once that has been completed, then you can add the unions back into PDs.

Where you have a failing school, you do the same. You reconstruct the school to succeed.

And then layer the unions back in after the transition has been completed.

But this could be any part of government that needs to be reimagined to succeed.

[Wizardspride]

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[pancakes3]

toppling whites from atop the perch of power is the point.

[pancakes3]

Re: Cops

In Alexandria, there were tons of eye rolls when city council forced the PD to have a few officers go through CIT (Crisis Intervention Team training - a program developed to peacefully engage with mentally ill suspects) and even active resistance. it's like $1500/officer, and officers/citizens were pissed that the money was being "wasted." 5 years later, every officer in Alexandria goes through the program because arrests were way down and there was overwhelmingly positive feedback from the ones who were trained. one of the parts of CIT that opened up a lot of officers' eyes was re schizophrenia where they put on headphones that would mimic the voices that they heard. not only did they see it was disorienting, they were shown that with these voices going off, they couldn't pick out the real voice of saying to put down the weapon; hand gestures and other nonverbal cues are part of the training.

there are other anecdotes too like arrests spiking for no apparent reason until they figured out that the bus stop for a mental health clinic was moved from one corner of an intersection to the next, and it really messed with a lot of mentally ill ppl who were used to the routine. they weren't getting help, they weren't getting meds, and it just cascaded into a string of incidents and it wasn't until an officer who went through CIT sat down and talked with a repeat offender - "what's up? why are you like this? you were doing so well. are you on your meds?" that they figured it out.

just a lot of misplaced ego. a lot of "i have 20 years on the force and i know what i'm doing" **** while not giving credence to social workers and mental health experts who also have decades of experience and training trying to make the world a better place.

but the point is that they CAN be retrained and it doesn't even take a Camden-type sea change to implement it.