OT: Cops kill George Floyd

[Clyde_Style]

I used to read Baldwin, but that quote doesn't cover the situation in full. I still don't understand how this helps understand the willingness of anyone to destroy a local shop run by local people who are not "The Man"

A bodega is not Target or Walmart

Trashing the bodega or local pharmacist whom you or your family and friends have patronized for years doesn't address having your dreams stolen from you, but it does steal the dreams of the shop owner and destroys another resource the community may need

Here in Tampa a Viet Namese restaurant was burned down. For what? They are immigrants who had been there for years and were a part of the community

There has to be some kind of moral line drawn where people are held accountable for hurting others. Walmart will be fine when things go sideways, but that Dominican or Viet Namese merchant that just got burned out probably won't be

I don't condone any of it though, even a Walmart, but I can at least understand that acting out against a mega corporation has key differences from destroying the business of an individual or a family.

Destroying your local bodega is criminal. There is no excuse that can be made to justify it. It may explain the rage, but that is not the same as a justification. It is still crime that brings nobody closer to justice.

Peaceful protests have accomplished nothing in the history of America. **** started burning and now all of a sudden everyone that spent the last 5 years saying they didn't understand how change could be made are finally doing those things.

A store is inconsequential. Who cares about property?

Your concept of harm is conceptual then. Property destruction is inconsequential to you, but not to those affected by it.

Go tell that to the man or woman who invested thirty years of their life in a community store that was burned down and see if they think it was justified or if they believe you have any respect for them.

[E-Balla]

I used to read Baldwin, but that quote doesn't cover the situation in full. I still don't understand how this helps understand the willingness of anyone to destroy a local shop run by local people who are not "The Man"

A bodega is not Target or Walmart

Trashing the bodega or local pharmacist whom you or your family and friends have patronized for years doesn't address having your dreams stolen from you, but it does steal the dreams of the shop owner and destroys another resource the community may need

Here in Tampa a Viet Namese restaurant was burned down. For what? They are immigrants who had been there for years and were a part of the community

There has to be some kind of moral line drawn where people are held accountable for hurting others. Walmart will be fine when things go sideways, but that Dominican or Viet Namese merchant that just got burned out probably won't be

I don't condone any of it though, even a Walmart, but I can at least understand that acting out against a mega corporation has key differences from destroying the business of an individual or a family.

Destroying your local bodega is criminal. There is no excuse that can be made to justify it. It may explain the rage, but that is not the same as a justification. It is still crime that brings nobody closer to justice.

Peaceful protests have accomplished nothing in the history of America. **** started burning and now all of a sudden everyone that spent the last 5 years saying they didn't understand how change could be made are finally doing those things.

A store is inconsequential. Who cares about property?

Your concept of harm is conceptual then. Property destruction is inconsequential to you, but not to those affected by it.

Go tell that to the man or woman who invested thirty years of their life in a community store that was burned down and see if they think it was justified or if they believe you have any respect for them.

Everyone's concept of harm is conceptual. To many the idea of claiming you own land as property is harm. I will tell that to anyone that needs to hear it to their face that their store burning was a necessary means to an end that will benefit them.

Stores can be rebuilt, they have insurance, shut up and enjoy the social change that the burning of a collection of rocks brought you. Like honestly I can't believe its 2020 and we're still acting like a collection of bricks matters in the fight for change.

[2010]

Here’s what it comes down to. The police are dogs, and politicians hold the leash. For decades they’ve been permitted to use excessive and deadly force, while the investigative process has been mostly a mere formality that’s made a mockery.

So cops are used to being devoid of accountability for their decision-making, which leads to injury or loss of life.

Again, the dog/leash/handler theory. If I let my aggressive dog run rampant and bite anyone, at its discretion, without fear of any correction. Even that animal will soon pickup he is not being held accountable and will begin to bite with even less hesitation than in previous occasions. Any provocation or irritation and the teeth will sink into flesh.

Well the teeth is the cops’ baton, their gun, and in Floyd’s case...Chauvin’s knee. The flesh is Black men of America.

So until THE PEOPLE demand that the politicians who hold the leash, must begin to use corrections via the choke chain maneuver on their liability laden dog (the police), nothing will change.

Until the blue wall of silence is dismantled like that of Berlin, nothing will change.

Until the internal affairs departments operate with legitimacy, nothing will change.

Until external agencies get involved in the investigative process for instances of excessive and deadly force, nothing will change.

Until the police culture is systematically transformed from a militarized gang, back to public servants who protect & serve the community, nothing will change.

People only understand when their finances get affected. So until the police administrations are defunded, nothing will change.

We must attack those “untils” with the same level of tenacity as those rabid dogs at the end of the politician’s leash. Who are so eager to sink their teeth in the flesh of melanin laden skin...just because they know they can.

[Phish Tank]

If I were in power, I'd go after and decimate the police unions with the same ferociousness that Rudy Giuliani went after the Five Families (it'll never happen, but one can hope)

[Context]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Pretty insightful thread

Also from that thread Go:

Excerpt from: "Confessions of a Former Bastard Cop"

I was a police officer for nearly ten years and I was a bastard. We all were.
This essay has been kicking around in my head for years now and I’ve never felt confident enough to write it. It’s a time in my life I’m ashamed of. It’s a time that I hurt people and, through inaction, allowed others to be hurt. It’s a time that I acted as a violent agent of capitalism and white supremacy. Under the guise of public safety, I personally ruined people’s lives but in so doing, made the public no safer… so did the family members and close friends of mine who also bore the badge alongside me.
But enough is enough.
The reforms aren’t working. Incrementalism isn’t happening. Unarmed Black, indigenous, and people of color are being killed by cops in the streets and the police are savagely attacking the people protesting these murders.
American policing is a thick blue tumor strangling the life from our communities and if you don’t believe it when the poor and the marginalized say it, if you don’t believe it when you see cops across the country shooting journalists with less-lethal bullets and caustic chemicals, maybe you’ll believe it when you hear it straight from the pig’s mouth.

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

[Clyde_Style]

Peaceful protests have accomplished nothing in the history of America. **** started burning and now all of a sudden everyone that spent the last 5 years saying they didn't understand how change could be made are finally doing those things.

A store is inconsequential. Who cares about property?

Your concept of harm is conceptual then. Property destruction is inconsequential to you, but not to those affected by it.

Go tell that to the man or woman who invested thirty years of their life in a community store that was burned down and see if they think it was justified or if they believe you have any respect for them.

Everyone's concept of harm is conceptual. To many the idea of claiming you own land as property is harm. I will tell that to anyone that needs to hear it to their face that their store burning was a necessary means to an end that will benefit them.

Stores can be rebuilt, they have insurance, shut up and enjoy the social change that the burning of a collection of rocks brought you. Like honestly I can't believe its 2020 and we're still acting like a collection of bricks matters in the fight for change.

You complain about the GB, then use this board to tell someone who supports equality, but differs on the means, to shut up. I disagree with you, but I'm not going to bully you to make my point.

Just dismissing property rights as trivial and subordinate to racial equality makes it sound like you don't even believe ownership of material goods is a human right at all. One does not negate the other and justify robbing people of their livelihoods.

And your certainty that looting is the reason why white folk are all of a sudden changing their tune is a crude and inaccurate take on the situation. If your claim to historical truth were on the money then past riots would have shifted social consciousness to a more receptive state, but it didn't.

The difference is the times, the ability to communicate in social media over the past decade, the accumulation of documentation of police violence culminating in Floyd's death which became a tipping point. It was becoming harder to put the racial violence back into the bottle once it was exposed that much in broad daylight.

Based on your premise, looting is the tipping point. If that were true, then your assertion is somehow consensus reality has changed because of FEAR, fear of being burned out and attacked by looters. FALSE. If you actually believe fear is what turned public opinion around then you're seriously misguided.

What changed it is the dialogue around race has been progressing for a while now, but the resistance to hearing it by power elites is driven by social pressure, whether that is by political voting, by cancelling advertisers of shows by bigots, by millions on Facebook or Twitter communicating where they stand and by those people showing up in diversity to demonstrate they no longer support the kind of oppression that can be pointed at directly and identified as wrong, whether that is police violence or prisons for profit or institutionalized forms of segregation or limits on opportunities for advancement.

It was moving towards that tipping point for a while now and the cops killing Floyd like it was a TV show and then Trump adding gasoline to the fire were the straws that broke the camel's back. But if you think looting convinced anybody that oppression is wrong then you're justifying YOUR feelings, but you are not explaining the reasons why millions of people who were not previously engaged in this conversation now are. They are not finally agreeing that BLM because they are afraid of being burned down.

They're also agreeing because their eyes are opened that if they let things go any further in the wrong direction the whole society will be lost to violent police rule. If you want to be cynical, then that is a more realistic explanation as to why there is some solidarity that wasn't there before, because when privileged people see they are not safe from the police either then they start to understand why black people aren't. It humanizes their perspective even if it comes from a place of self-interest of not wanting to live in a police state.

Yes, that is fear, but it is not fear of looters, it is a fear that the police are no longer law enforcement officers, but state sanctioned gangs. That's what a lot of people saw when the protests started and the cops around the country were equal opportunity sadists, regardless of race. That turned the tide as much as anything. A black person probably already felt that way about the cops. Now tens of millions of whites saw that and went oh chit that's what you've been dealing with, damn, this can't continue. That's what super-charged the conversation, not looters.

But, in general, it is not that cynical. If a white person is marching now they're damned relieved to be out there showing their support after so many years of tension and social repression.

[Clyde_Style]

Here’s what it comes down to. The police are dogs, and politicians hold the leash. For decades they’ve been permitted to use excessive and deadly force, while the investigative process has been mostly a mere formality that’s made a mockery.

So cops are used to being devoid of accountability for their decision-making, which leads to injury or loss of life.

Again, the dog/leash/handler theory. If I let my aggressive dog run rampant and bite anyone, at its discretion, without fear of any correction. Even that animal will soon pickup he is not being held accountable and will begin to bite with even less hesitation than in previous occasions. Any provocation or irritation and the teeth will sink into flesh.

Well the teeth is the cops’ baton, their gun, and in Floyd’s case...Chauvin’s knee. The flesh is Black men of America.

So until THE PEOPLE demand that the politicians who hold the leash, must begin to use corrections via the choke chain maneuver on their liability laden dog (the police), nothing will change.

Until the blue wall of silence is dismantled like that of Berlin, nothing will change.

Until the internal affairs departments operate with legitimacy, nothing will change.

Until external agencies get involved in the investigative process for instances of excessive and deadly force, nothing will change.

Until the police culture is systematically transformed from a militarized gang, back to public servants who protect & serve the community, nothing will change.

People only understand when their finances get affected. So until the police administrations are defunded, nothing will change.

We must attack those “untils” with the same level of tenacity as those rabid dogs at the end of the politician’s leash. Who are so eager to sink their teeth in the flesh of melanin laden skin...just because they know they can.

I agree with all of that. That's why black power must result in a black vote or else you don't have the power to guide the policy reforms necessary. As Phish says, you have to dismantle a whole lot of the system and start over. That will not happen without a show of power at the ballot box. Bullets won't accomplish that. Only a collective conscience that preserves democratic processes will get those results.

The real solution is to get everyone to register to vote and show up on election day. If every person here got one extra person to register to vote that would help a great deal.

[2010]

Here’s what it comes down to. The police are dogs, and politicians hold the leash. For decades they’ve been permitted to use excessive and deadly force, while the investigative process has been mostly a mere formality that’s made a mockery.

So cops are used to being devoid of accountability for their decision-making, which leads to injury or loss of life.

Again, the dog/leash/handler theory. If I let my aggressive dog run rampant and bite anyone, at its discretion, without fear of any correction. Even that animal will soon pickup he is not being held accountable and will begin to bite with even less hesitation than in previous occasions. Any provocation or irritation and the teeth will sink into flesh.

Well the teeth is the cops’ baton, their gun, and in Floyd’s case...Chauvin’s knee. The flesh is Black men of America.

So until THE PEOPLE demand that the politicians who hold the leash, must begin to use corrections via the choke chain maneuver on their liability laden dog (the police), nothing will change.

Until the blue wall of silence is dismantled like that of Berlin, nothing will change.

Until the internal affairs departments operate with legitimacy, nothing will change.

Until external agencies get involved in the investigative process for instances of excessive and deadly force, nothing will change.

Until the police culture is systematically transformed from a militarized gang, back to public servants who protect & serve the community, nothing will change.

People only understand when their finances get affected. So until the police administrations are defunded, nothing will change.

We must attack those “untils” with the same level of tenacity as those rabid dogs at the end of the politician’s leash. Who are so eager to sink their teeth in the flesh of melanin laden skin...just because they know they can.

I agree with all of that. That's why black power must result in a black vote or else you don't have the power to guide the policy reforms necessary. As Phish says, you have to dismantle a whole lot of the system and start over. That will not happen without a show of power at the ballot box. Bullets won't accomplish that. Only a collective conscience that preserves democratic processes will get those results.

The real solution is to get everyone to register to vote and show up on election day. If every person here got one extra person to register to vote that would help a great deal.

I feel you. My mentality is still being forged. So while I will never rebuke defensive/violent protest, property damage, and looting – as a last resort (cuz I still view it as being a very effective call for awareness); you have made effective points about the end game. So I am with you.

We need to maximize our presence at the polls, and subsequently get people who will advocate for the plight of blacks in America. Then once that is established, advocate for the plight for all Americans.

But we cannot have the 2nd without the 1st. Cuz that illusionary mindset is what has us in this current predicament.

[Zenzibar]

Peaceful protests have accomplished nothing in the history of America. **** started burning and now all of a sudden everyone that spent the last 5 years saying they didn't understand how change could be made are finally doing those things.

A store is inconsequential. Who cares about property?

Your concept of harm is conceptual then. Property destruction is inconsequential to you, but not to those affected by it.

Go tell that to the man or woman who invested thirty years of their life in a community store that was burned down and see if they think it was justified or if they believe you have any respect for them.

Everyone's concept of harm is conceptual. To many the idea of claiming you own land as property is harm. I will tell that to anyone that needs to hear it to their face that their store burning was a necessary means to an end that will benefit them.

Stores can be rebuilt, they have insurance, shut up and enjoy the social change that the burning of a collection of rocks brought you. Like honestly I can't believe its 2020 and we're still acting like a collection of bricks matters in the fight for change.

Loyalists, Fence-sitters, and Patriots...circa 1815
https://www.ushistory.org/us/11b.asp

....."Patriots subjected Loyalists to public humiliation and violence. Many Loyalists found their property vandalized, looted, and burned. The patriots controlled public discourse. Woe to the citizen who publicly proclaimed sympathy to Britain."

[E-Balla]

You complain about the GB, then use this board to tell someone who supports equality, but differs on the means, to shut up. I disagree with you, but I'm not going to bully you to make my point.

I didn't complain about the GB. If anything I defended them and criticized the CA board. That said another poster saying people complaining about their stores burning need to shut up and enjoy the progress isn't telling you to shut up and isn't comparable to mods banning you for calling other posters racist. Don't play dumb Clyde we know each other more than well enough for you to know what you were doing there and I find it funny you had the nerve to play that card then say you aren't going to try to bully me to make your point.

Just dismissing property rights as trivial and subordinate to racial equality makes it sound like you don't even believe ownership of material goods is a human right at all. One does not negate the other and justify robbing people of their livelihoods.

You dismissed the actions that lead to social progress as trivial just as easily and here you go again with that rhetoric. We all know next to no one is going to be ruined because their store burned down and now the insurance company has to pay to replace it. Stop it.

And your certainty that looting is the reason why white folk are all of a sudden changing their tune is a crude and inaccurate take on the situation. If your claim to historical truth were on the money then past riots would have shifted social consciousness to a more receptive state, but it didn't.

The difference is the times, the ability to communicate in social media over the past decade, the accumulation of documentation of police violence culminating in Floyd's death which became a tipping point. It was becoming harder to put the racial violence back into the bottle once it was exposed that much in broad daylight.

Based on your premise, looting is the tipping point. If that were true, then your assertion is somehow consensus reality has changed because of FEAR, fear of being burned out and attacked by looters. FALSE. If you actually believe fear is what turned public opinion around then you're seriously misguided.

If you believe it isn't you're incredibly misguided and know nothing about US history or the history of the black struggle for human rights. Past riots HAVE shifted political consciousness. Last time black people uniformly started riots nationwide was in 1968, you telling me we didn't gain social progress? The US government passed the Civil Rights Act without voters even supporting it because of that fear.

I'll be 100% real here I'm not playing to this nonsense that white people saw a man die and their hearts finally grew like the **** Grinch. That politicians saw on man die and now they finally understand what needs to be done. We've been kidnapped and miseducated but we weren't born yesterday. I understand how America, Americans, and most importantly white people and the system of white supremacy works. Step 1 is always to act as if white people suddenly gained empathy, it destroys the militancy of the movement and leads to our destruction because the second we stop being angry white supremacy goes back to doing what they do best. No progress made in the 5 decades between us tearing **** up but I'm supposed to believe that us tearing **** up again isn't what changed the minds of people? Yeah ight...

[E-Balla]

Here’s what it comes down to. The police are dogs, and politicians hold the leash. For decades they’ve been permitted to use excessive and deadly force, while the investigative process has been mostly a mere formality that’s made a mockery.

So cops are used to being devoid of accountability for their decision-making, which leads to injury or loss of life.

Again, the dog/leash/handler theory. If I let my aggressive dog run rampant and bite anyone, at its discretion, without fear of any correction. Even that animal will soon pickup he is not being held accountable and will begin to bite with even less hesitation than in previous occasions. Any provocation or irritation and the teeth will sink into flesh.

Well the teeth is the cops’ baton, their gun, and in Floyd’s case...Chauvin’s knee. The flesh is Black men of America.

So until THE PEOPLE demand that the politicians who hold the leash, must begin to use corrections via the choke chain maneuver on their liability laden dog (the police), nothing will change.

Until the blue wall of silence is dismantled like that of Berlin, nothing will change.

Until the internal affairs departments operate with legitimacy, nothing will change.

Until external agencies get involved in the investigative process for instances of excessive and deadly force, nothing will change.

Until the police culture is systematically transformed from a militarized gang, back to public servants who protect & serve the community, nothing will change.

People only understand when their finances get affected. So until the police administrations are defunded, nothing will change.

We must attack those “untils” with the same level of tenacity as those rabid dogs at the end of the politician’s leash. Who are so eager to sink their teeth in the flesh of melanin laden skin...just because they know they can.

I agree with all of that. That's why black power must result in a black vote or else you don't have the power to guide the policy reforms necessary. As Phish says, you have to dismantle a whole lot of the system and start over. That will not happen without a show of power at the ballot box. Bullets won't accomplish that. Only a collective conscience that preserves democratic processes will get those results.

The real solution is to get everyone to register to vote and show up on election day. If every person here got one extra person to register to vote that would help a great deal.

I feel you. My mentality is still being forged. So while I will never rebuke defensive/violent protest, property damage, and looting – as a last resort (cuz I still view it as being a very effective call for awareness); you have made effective points about the end game. So I am with you.

We need to maximize our presence at the polls, and subsequently get people who will advocate for the plight of blacks in America. Then once that is established, advocate for the plight for all Americans.

But we cannot have the 2nd without the 1st. Cuz that illusionary mindset is what has us in this current predicament.

Black people voted from 1980 to 2019. What progress that lead to? Don't fall for the trickery, voting isn't a fix for black issues. It'll fix our issues we have as Americans and you should vote as an American to fix issues affecting all of us but politicians won't do **** for black people we don't fight for. They'll shutdown the government for DACA, we gotta shutdown society to stop being murdered.

[Clyde_Style]

Here’s what it comes down to. The police are dogs, and politicians hold the leash. For decades they’ve been permitted to use excessive and deadly force, while the investigative process has been mostly a mere formality that’s made a mockery.

So cops are used to being devoid of accountability for their decision-making, which leads to injury or loss of life.

Again, the dog/leash/handler theory. If I let my aggressive dog run rampant and bite anyone, at its discretion, without fear of any correction. Even that animal will soon pickup he is not being held accountable and will begin to bite with even less hesitation than in previous occasions. Any provocation or irritation and the teeth will sink into flesh.

Well the teeth is the cops’ baton, their gun, and in Floyd’s case...Chauvin’s knee. The flesh is Black men of America.

So until THE PEOPLE demand that the politicians who hold the leash, must begin to use corrections via the choke chain maneuver on their liability laden dog (the police), nothing will change.

Until the blue wall of silence is dismantled like that of Berlin, nothing will change.

Until the internal affairs departments operate with legitimacy, nothing will change.

Until external agencies get involved in the investigative process for instances of excessive and deadly force, nothing will change.

Until the police culture is systematically transformed from a militarized gang, back to public servants who protect & serve the community, nothing will change.

People only understand when their finances get affected. So until the police administrations are defunded, nothing will change.

We must attack those “untils” with the same level of tenacity as those rabid dogs at the end of the politician’s leash. Who are so eager to sink their teeth in the flesh of melanin laden skin...just because they know they can.

I agree with all of that. That's why black power must result in a black vote or else you don't have the power to guide the policy reforms necessary. As Phish says, you have to dismantle a whole lot of the system and start over. That will not happen without a show of power at the ballot box. Bullets won't accomplish that. Only a collective conscience that preserves democratic processes will get those results.

The real solution is to get everyone to register to vote and show up on election day. If every person here got one extra person to register to vote that would help a great deal.

I feel you. My mentality is still being forged. While I will never rebuke defensive/violent protest, property damage, and looting – as a last resort (cuz I still view it at being a very effective call for awareness). You have made effective points about the end game.

So I am with you. We need to maximize our presence at the polls, and subsequently get people who will advocate for plight of blacks in America. Then once that is established, advocate for the plight for all Americans.

But we cannot have the 2nd without the 1st. Cuz that illusionary mindset is what has us in this current situation.

I'll tell you what pisses me off.

It is other white people telling me they founded and built this country.

It makes me boil inside.

Personally, I don't feel responsible for America's slave trade and if any person tries to guilt trip me like that I'll tell them to pound sand. I'm continuously open to expanding my self-awareness of possible acts of unintended complicity, but I am not going to be held accountable for the actions of people a century or more before I was born. That's just reverse racism implying that because I'm white I'm just as guilty as the original slave masters. No sir, that's bogus

But I've been told by white guys this is their country, it was founded by white people and built by them. And that is when I feel fairly violent emotionally, but I keep my cool. Inside, I want to punch their lights out. It is obscene to me. I can't believe anyone actually believes this stuff, but they do.

When I try to argue that the country was actually built on the back of people brought here against their will they simply do not care.

And I hate confederate flags. I see them every day.

Racism is a mental illness. We all are affected by it to some degree, but what I see every day is pretty bad, probably worse than your average day in NYC. Not trying to say my data sample is bigger and better, just saying I'm a white guy who can't stand what I see around me and I do my best to address it when I can.

It really doesn't matter what I say to them. They are lost causes. No reasoning will change their allegiances.

What matters more is those people whose opinions are in flux and working it out with them. The last thing this country needs now is rage against the machine blinding people of their need to collaborate with each other.

Luckily, most of the bigoted white guys here have never voted in their lives. Trust me when I tell you this, but if all of the white nationalist type of people actually bothered to vote the problems we're facing would be so much worse. I still think around half of the white males in America are some kind of racist. But that's not enough for the bad apples to hold on to power if everyone else works together.

I've also asked several black people here if they vote. Not one said yes. Damn shame too considering what an advantage they'd have if they did.

[2010]

I agree with all of that. That's why black power must result in a black vote or else you don't have the power to guide the policy reforms necessary. As Phish says, you have to dismantle a whole lot of the system and start over. That will not happen without a show of power at the ballot box. Bullets won't accomplish that. Only a collective conscience that preserves democratic processes will get those results.

The real solution is to get everyone to register to vote and show up on election day. If every person here got one extra person to register to vote that would help a great deal.

I feel you. My mentality is still being forged. So while I will never rebuke defensive/violent protest, property damage, and looting – as a last resort (cuz I still view it as being a very effective call for awareness); you have made effective points about the end game. So I am with you.

We need to maximize our presence at the polls, and subsequently get people who will advocate for the plight of blacks in America. Then once that is established, advocate for the plight for all Americans.

But we cannot have the 2nd without the 1st. Cuz that illusionary mindset is what has us in this current predicament.

Black people voted from 1980 to 2019. What progress that lead to? Don't fall for the trickery, voting isn't a fix for black issues. It'll fix our issues we have as Americans and you should vote as an American to fix issues affecting all of us but politicians won't do **** for black people don't fight for. They'll shutdown the government for DACA, we gotta shutdown society to stop being murdered.

I feel you. I think it's a two-step tho. We both know a two-step requires rhythm. I think both methods must coordinate to create that rhythm till we find the step that beats and breaks down this system.

So I agree with the defensive/violent protest, property damage, and looting (aka appropriation). I also agree with an end game of getting advocates in political office to advance our plight.

There is no reason both methods can't work in unison. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

But ultimately, like I told Clyde, I firmly believe we need to:

get people who will advocate [politically] for the plight of blacks in America [as their primary objective]. Then once that is established, advocate for the plight for all Americans.

But we cannot have the 2nd without the 1st. Cuz that illusionary mindset is what has us in this current predicament.

[mpharris36]

If I were in power, I'd go after and decimate the police unions with the same ferociousness that Rudy Giuliani went after the Five Families (it'll never happen, but one can hope)

Unions are a big big problem. It might be the biggest issue. They are basically untouchable in that bubble.

To get any radical change the police union needs to be one of the main targets.

[Clyde_Style]

You complain about the GB, then use this board to tell someone who supports equality, but differs on the means, to shut up. I disagree with you, but I'm not going to bully you to make my point.

I didn't complain about the GB. If anything I defended them and criticized the CA board. That said another poster saying people complaining about their stores burning need to shut up and enjoy the progress isn't telling you to shut up and isn't comparable to mods banning you for calling other posters racist. Don't play dumb Clyde we know each other more than well enough for you to know what you were doing there and I find it funny you had the nerve to play that card then say you aren't going to try to bully me to make your point.

Just dismissing property rights as trivial and subordinate to racial equality makes it sound like you don't even believe ownership of material goods is a human right at all. One does not negate the other and justify robbing people of their livelihoods.

You dismissed the actions that lead to social progress as trivial just as easily and here you go again with that rhetoric. We all know next to no one is going to be ruined because their store burned down and now the insurance company has to pay to replace it. Stop it.

And your certainty that looting is the reason why white folk are all of a sudden changing their tune is a crude and inaccurate take on the situation. If your claim to historical truth were on the money then past riots would have shifted social consciousness to a more receptive state, but it didn't.

The difference is the times, the ability to communicate in social media over the past decade, the accumulation of documentation of police violence culminating in Floyd's death which became a tipping point. It was becoming harder to put the racial violence back into the bottle once it was exposed that much in broad daylight.

Based on your premise, looting is the tipping point. If that were true, then your assertion is somehow consensus reality has changed because of FEAR, fear of being burned out and attacked by looters. FALSE. If you actually believe fear is what turned public opinion around then you're seriously misguided.

If you believe it isn't you're incredibly misguided and know nothing about US history or the history of the black struggle for human rights. Past riots HAVE shifted political consciousness. Last time black people uniformly started riots nationwide was in 1968, you telling me we didn't gain social progress? The US government passed the Civil Rights Act without voters even supporting it because of that fear.

I'll be 100% real here I'm not playing to this nonsense that white people saw a man die and their hearts finally grew like the **** Grinch. That politicians saw on man die and now they finally understand what needs to be done. We've been kidnapped and miseducated but we weren't born yesterday. I understand how America, Americans, and most importantly white people and the system of white supremacy works. Step 1 is always to act as if white people suddenly gained empathy, it destroys the militancy of the movement and leads to our destruction because the second we stop being angry white supremacy goes back to doing what they do best. No progress made in the 5 decades between us tearing **** up but I'm supposed to believe that us tearing **** up again isn't what changed the minds of people? Yeah ight...

Are you planning on committing arson or just supporting those do?

[Capn'O]

It frustrates me when the damage is willy nilly but a lot of that was infiltrators and (white) people that thought they were being helpful and weren't and are now mostly staying in their lane. When the damage is Targeted, so to speak, I can't be mad. And the statue toppling is just the best. The. Best.

It's pretty clear what gets coverage.

[2010]

I agree with all of that. That's why black power must result in a black vote or else you don't have the power to guide the policy reforms necessary. As Phish says, you have to dismantle a whole lot of the system and start over. That will not happen without a show of power at the ballot box. Bullets won't accomplish that. Only a collective conscience that preserves democratic processes will get those results.

The real solution is to get everyone to register to vote and show up on election day. If every person here got one extra person to register to vote that would help a great deal.

I feel you. My mentality is still being forged. While I will never rebuke defensive/violent protest, property damage, and looting – as a last resort (cuz I still view it at being a very effective call for awareness). You have made effective points about the end game.

So I am with you. We need to maximize our presence at the polls, and subsequently get people who will advocate for plight of blacks in America. Then once that is established, advocate for the plight for all Americans.

But we cannot have the 2nd without the 1st. Cuz that illusionary mindset is what has us in this current situation.

I'll tell you what pisses me off.

It is other white people telling me they founded and built this country.

It makes me boil inside.

Personally, I don't feel responsible for America's slave trade and if any person tries to guilt trip me like that I'll tell them to pound sand. I'm continuously open to expanding my self-awareness of possible acts of unintended complicity, but I am not going to be held accountable for the actions of people a century or more before I was born. That's just reverse racism implying that because I'm white I'm just as guilty as the original slave masters. No sir, that's bogus

But I've been told by white guys this is their country, it was founded by white people and built by them. And that is when I feel fairly violent emotionally, but I keep my cool. Inside, I want to punch their lights out. It is obscene to me. I can't believe anyone actually believes this stuff, but they do.

When I try to argue that the country was actually built on the back of people brought here against their will they simply do not care.

And I hate confederate flags. I see them every day.

Racism is a mental illness. We all are affected by it to some degree, but what I see every day is pretty bad, probably worse than your average day in NYC. Not trying to say my data sample is bigger and better, just saying I'm a white guy who can't stand what I see around me and I do my best to address it when I can.

It really doesn't matter what I say to them. They are lost causes. No reasoning will change their allegiances.

What matters more is those people whose opinions are in flux and working it out with them. The last thing this country needs now is rage against the machine blinding people of their need to collaborate with each other.

Luckily, most of the bigoted white guys here have never voted in their lives. Trust me when I tell you this, but if all of the white nationalist type of people actually bothered to vote the problems we're facing would be so much worse. I still think around half of the white males in America are some kind of racist. But that's not enough for the bad apples to hold on to power if everyone else works together.

I've also asked several black people here if they vote. Not one said yes. Damn shame too considering what an advantage they'd have if they did.

I feel you on all the other stuff, so what's understood doesn't need to be addressed. But regarding the enlarged, do you acknowledge being a beneficiary of white privilege tho?

[E-Balla]

I feel you. My mentality is still being forged. So while I will never rebuke defensive/violent protest, property damage, and looting – as a last resort (cuz I still view it as being a very effective call for awareness); you have made effective points about the end game. So I am with you.

We need to maximize our presence at the polls, and subsequently get people who will advocate for the plight of blacks in America. Then once that is established, advocate for the plight for all Americans.

But we cannot have the 2nd without the 1st. Cuz that illusionary mindset is what has us in this current predicament.

Black people voted from 1980 to 2019. What progress that lead to? Don't fall for the trickery, voting isn't a fix for black issues. It'll fix our issues we have as Americans and you should vote as an American to fix issues affecting all of us but politicians won't do **** for black people don't fight for. They'll shutdown the government for DACA, we gotta shutdown society to stop being murdered.

I feel you. I think it's a two-step tho. We both know a two-step requires rhythm. I think both methods must coordinate to create that rhythm till we find the step that beats and breaks down this system.

So I agree with the defensive/violent protest, property damage, and looting (aka appropriation). I also agree with an end game of getting advocates in political office to advance our plight.

There is no reason both methods can't work in unison. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

But ultimately, like I told Clyde, I firmly believe we need to:

get people who will advocate [politically] for the plight of blacks in America [as their primary objective]. Then once that is established, advocate for the plight for all Americans.

But we cannot have the 2nd without the 1st. Cuz that illusionary mindset is what has us in this current predicament.

You're not wrong but after seeing mainstream politics pick up the most fringe of fringe issues for groups with less power than us so often I realized that at least beyond a local level we'll never have the first step. Politicians know more than anyone else no one stands with us. Hell we barely stand with each other on issues besides our literal deaths. We can't even get 60% support for reparations among black people. Any politician centering our issues would get laughed off stage just as quickly as Marianne (yeah I know she was **** but still).

[E-Balla]

I feel you. My mentality is still being forged. While I will never rebuke defensive/violent protest, property damage, and looting – as a last resort (cuz I still view it at being a very effective call for awareness). You have made effective points about the end game.

So I am with you. We need to maximize our presence at the polls, and subsequently get people who will advocate for plight of blacks in America. Then once that is established, advocate for the plight for all Americans.

But we cannot have the 2nd without the 1st. Cuz that illusionary mindset is what has us in this current situation.

I'll tell you what pisses me off.

It is other white people telling me they founded and built this country.

It makes me boil inside.

Personally, I don't feel responsible for America's slave trade and if any person tries to guilt trip me like that I'll tell them to pound sand. I'm continuously open to expanding my self-awareness of possible acts of unintended complicity, but I am not going to be held accountable for the actions of people a century or more before I was born. That's just reverse racism implying that because I'm white I'm just as guilty as the original slave masters. No sir, that's bogus

But I've been told by white guys this is their country, it was founded by white people and built by them. And that is when I feel fairly violent emotionally, but I keep my cool. Inside, I want to punch their lights out. It is obscene to me. I can't believe anyone actually believes this stuff, but they do.

When I try to argue that the country was actually built on the back of people brought here against their will they simply do not care.

And I hate confederate flags. I see them every day.

Racism is a mental illness. We all are affected by it to some degree, but what I see every day is pretty bad, probably worse than your average day in NYC. Not trying to say my data sample is bigger and better, just saying I'm a white guy who can't stand what I see around me and I do my best to address it when I can.

It really doesn't matter what I say to them. They are lost causes. No reasoning will change their allegiances.

What matters more is those people whose opinions are in flux and working it out with them. The last thing this country needs now is rage against the machine blinding people of their need to collaborate with each other.

Luckily, most of the bigoted white guys here have never voted in their lives. Trust me when I tell you this, but if all of the white nationalist type of people actually bothered to vote the problems we're facing would be so much worse. I still think around half of the white males in America are some kind of racist. But that's not enough for the bad apples to hold on to power if everyone else works together.

I've also asked several black people here if they vote. Not one said yes. Damn shame too considering what an advantage they'd have if they did.

I feel you on all the other stuff, so what's understood doesn't need to be addressed. But regarding the enlarged, do you acknowledge being a beneficiary of white privilege tho?

Yeah no one wants white guilt. We want y'all to take responsibility.

I'm not guilty for the newspaper being thrown on my lawn but I'm responsible for picking it up.

[E-Balla]

You complain about the GB, then use this board to tell someone who supports equality, but differs on the means, to shut up. I disagree with you, but I'm not going to bully you to make my point.

I didn't complain about the GB. If anything I defended them and criticized the CA board. That said another poster saying people complaining about their stores burning need to shut up and enjoy the progress isn't telling you to shut up and isn't comparable to mods banning you for calling other posters racist. Don't play dumb Clyde we know each other more than well enough for you to know what you were doing there and I find it funny you had the nerve to play that card then say you aren't going to try to bully me to make your point.

Just dismissing property rights as trivial and subordinate to racial equality makes it sound like you don't even believe ownership of material goods is a human right at all. One does not negate the other and justify robbing people of their livelihoods.

You dismissed the actions that lead to social progress as trivial just as easily and here you go again with that rhetoric. We all know next to no one is going to be ruined because their store burned down and now the insurance company has to pay to replace it. Stop it.

And your certainty that looting is the reason why white folk are all of a sudden changing their tune is a crude and inaccurate take on the situation. If your claim to historical truth were on the money then past riots would have shifted social consciousness to a more receptive state, but it didn't.

The difference is the times, the ability to communicate in social media over the past decade, the accumulation of documentation of police violence culminating in Floyd's death which became a tipping point. It was becoming harder to put the racial violence back into the bottle once it was exposed that much in broad daylight.

Based on your premise, looting is the tipping point. If that were true, then your assertion is somehow consensus reality has changed because of FEAR, fear of being burned out and attacked by looters. FALSE. If you actually believe fear is what turned public opinion around then you're seriously misguided.

If you believe it isn't you're incredibly misguided and know nothing about US history or the history of the black struggle for human rights. Past riots HAVE shifted political consciousness. Last time black people uniformly started riots nationwide was in 1968, you telling me we didn't gain social progress? The US government passed the Civil Rights Act without voters even supporting it because of that fear.

I'll be 100% real here I'm not playing to this nonsense that white people saw a man die and their hearts finally grew like the **** Grinch. That politicians saw on man die and now they finally understand what needs to be done. We've been kidnapped and miseducated but we weren't born yesterday. I understand how America, Americans, and most importantly white people and the system of white supremacy works. Step 1 is always to act as if white people suddenly gained empathy, it destroys the militancy of the movement and leads to our destruction because the second we stop being angry white supremacy goes back to doing what they do best. No progress made in the 5 decades between us tearing **** up but I'm supposed to believe that us tearing **** up again isn't what changed the minds of people? Yeah ight...

Are you planning on committing arson or just supporting those do?

Are you planning on defending storefronts with a gun or just supporting those who do?

I can ask insulting questions too Clyde you don't want that smoke.