Freeish

[babyjax13]

I let this thread unfold because of the particular Utah angle, because there probably isn't anywhere else to discuss this on RealGM. While I want to commend everyone for conducting a very respectful debate (seriously, much respect), I feel this thread is veering into a more general political discussion, and as such, there is a better place to discuss the more general issues, which is the Current Affairs board.

Probably a solid idea. It is, at least, encouraging to see that the people on this forum seem to all support and sympathize with where Donovan is coming from right now, and agree that some things need to change (even if there are disagreements about what those are).

[vryadli]

I'm going to be honest here. Two weeks ago, we were outraged at continued instances of police brutality against black people. Everyone agrees that this is unacceptable, criminal behavior on the part of police officers.

And now, two weeks later, it seems that cultural marxists and 'antifa' mobs want to tear down statues all over the country, including figures like Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson and Theodore Roosevelt.

Did I miss something?

Can I ask how do you define "cultural marxists"?

Marxism/Leninism advocates for destroying traditional culture, destroying national patriotism, destroying the family unit, destroying religion, and eliminating private property--all things that would stand in the way of the populace becoming loyal first and foremost to a central, communist state. Mobs and rioters, who are comprised of angry and disenfranchised members of the underclasses, serve as 'useful idiots' who are employed to carry out the destruction of the status quo, while being led by a class of so-called "progressive" intellectuals.

Spoiler alert: It doesn't work, but it does incite a lot of violence.

What's taking place in Seattle isn't about protecting black people from incompetent police. It's about lashing out at the establishment and trying to remove law and order. Antifa has been around for more than 30 years all over the world. They're basically a mob of angry anarchists who wear black and like to smash things. They're using the anger and the protests against police brutality as cover to attack the monuments.

Hm... how do you manage to to fit in one diatribe a central, communist state. and "mobs and rioters"? Isn't it kind of two much opposite?

...as far as I can tell your monster is a hybrid of at least 3 distinct left ideologies ("mob of angry anarchists" - that part you got right)', none of them is directly related to Marx or Lenin. If you like not essence by name that's Freud , Trotsky and Bakunin. I'm not sure who has to personify hippies, but I can assure you that they also have nothing in common with serious socialist views (spoiler: those are view about natural social progress, progress (surprise!) based on hard work and scientifically oriented education - and strongly disapprove mob and riots in DEMOCRATIC state) .

I also can inform you that Thomas Jefferson and Theodore Roosevelt are quite popular among non-marginal socialists, as they considered being progressive for their own times and situations.

And as for family, starting from second half of XX the Soviet families were way more traditional, than American - with only exception that man and women had about equal rights.

I think I skip topic of "traditional culture" and "modern art".
----------------
I wrote it just to has pure conscience... in case, you know, somebody cheated you on the matters - but truth and reality matters for you... but in the other case, if you are more comfy with your straw man, then just disregard my post.

(Don't get me wrong, USSR was very ugly state, it has no democracy, no freedom of speech and was ten times more corrupted from top to the bottom than USA. but those crimes and vices tare rather opposite to those of USA left marginals... it's kind of like leprosy versus plague)

[Inigo Montoya]

Can I ask how do you define "cultural marxists"?

Marxism/Leninism advocates for destroying traditional culture, destroying national patriotism, destroying the family unit, destroying religion, and eliminating private property--all things that would stand in the way of the populace becoming loyal first and foremost to a central, communist state. Mobs and rioters, who are comprised of angry and disenfranchised members of the underclasses, serve as 'useful idiots' who are employed to carry out the destruction of the status quo, while being led by a class of so-called "progressive" intellectuals.

Spoiler alert: It doesn't work, but it does incite a lot of violence.

What's taking place in Seattle isn't about protecting black people from incompetent police. It's about lashing out at the establishment and trying to remove law and order. Antifa has been around for more than 30 years all over the world. They're basically a mob of angry anarchists who wear black and like to smash things. They're using the anger and the protests against police brutality as cover to attack the monuments.

Hm... how do you manage to to fit in one diatribe a central, communist state. and "mobs and rioters"? Isn't it kind of two much opposite?

...as far as I can tell your monster is a hybrid of at least 3 distinct left ideologies ("mob of angry anarchists" - that part you got right)', none of them is directly related to Marx or Lenin. If you like not essence by name that's Freud , Trotsky and Bakunin. I'm not sure who has to personify hippies, but I can assure you that they also have nothing in common with serious socialist views (spoiler: those are view about natural social progress, progress (surprise!) based on hard work and scientifically oriented education - and strongly disapprove mob and riots in DEMOCRATIC state) .

I also can inform you that Thomas Jefferson and Theodore Roosevelt are quite popular among non-marginal socialists, as they considered being progressive for their own times and situations.

And as for family, starting from second half of XX the Soviet families were way more traditional, than American - with only exception that man and women had about equal rights.

I think I skip topic of "traditional culture" and "modern art".
----------------
I wrote it just to has pure conscience... in case, you know, somebody cheated you on the matters - but truth and reality matters for you... but in the other case, if you are more comfy with your straw man, then just disregard my post.

(Don't get me wrong, USSR was very ugly state, it has no democracy, no freedom of speech and was ten times more corrupted from top to the bottom than USA. but those crimes and vices tare rather opposite to those of USA left marginals... it's kind of like leprosy versus plague)

As I previously stated in this thread, this type of (a more broad and general) discussion belongs on the Current Affairs board. Feel free to continue it over there.

[vryadli]

As I previously stated in this thread, this type of (a more broad and general) discussion belongs on the Current Affairs board. Feel free to continue it over there.

Sorry, I was kind of startled so didn't proceed to read the whole conversation and consequently din't read your remark. Sorry for that mistake, I appreciate your work on keeping the board between mess and death... and please feel free to delete any my comments which are inappropriate.

[goober]

I may be one of the younger ones here on the board, I graduated high school in 2017 in Utah County, and it’s very much an ignorance thing. People don’t experience different cultures a lot of the time and it causes ignorance. I feel bad for Donovan.

[Inigo Montoya]

As I previously stated in this thread, this type of (a more broad and general) discussion belongs on the Current Affairs board. Feel free to continue it over there.

Sorry, I was kind of startled so didn't proceed to read the whole conversation and consequently din't read your remark. Sorry for that mistake, I appreciate your work on keeping the board between mess and death... and please feel free to delete any my comments which are inappropriate.

No worries, it's all good.

"between mess and death" - that's a pretty awesome description.

[MeestR]

When I saw his post, I initially thought Mitchell was just setting a bait and trying to draw out the trolls. I thought he couldn't actually feel this way because he is currently making more money than I could ever dream of making at his age, and he has very realistic hopes of making up to TEN TIMES more in the near future. He obviously has put in the work for it. Not the mention the fame and visibility he experiences daily. This is a privilege that most of America could only dream of having.

And maybe I should have prefaced this with I have been trying so hard to see and understand. I am trying to be more of an online ally on Twitter, Facebook, and other places. And I know I still have a ways to go in teaching my kids IRL and making my friends, family, and coworkers more aware of the worlds which exist beyond our own.

But after seeing "FREE-ISH" posted by Donovan, even in his position, I had to step back and think. Does he have this privilege - I jumped to seeing so quickly - BECAUSE of his skin color, or IN SPITE of it? I mean, really, considering all the preparation modern athletes have to do to even play at a competitive, let alone pro level, doesn't fair skin give people even a little more privilege in playing on public baskets, tracks, fields, or even weight rooms? Even more well off people who have private access to privileged areas and leagues experience more obstacles with dark skin sometimes in merely transporting themselves to and from their events.

This I think is what Mitchell was trying to communicate with his post. Freedoms of people with dark skin are VERY different from people with fair skin. So much so, that the definition of the word is not even the same for different skin colors. He is using his privilege to open up others' bubbles.

I don't think most people are naturally racist. I think people naturally just want to group the unknown world into convenient boxes. And I think when we realize the boxes we've been using our whole lives can be outright wrong, that can painful and we want to put up defenses. On top of doing our part in getting rid of systemic racism, we can also try to not be so defensive and outspoken when we learn one of our presumptive boxes were housing something incorrect. I think the main thing is keep trying to learn from people and places you haven't traditionally learned from, and not get so defensive. Maybe even change your mind after you've learned a new fact?