2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome)

[Fury]

This thread doing a good job convincing mpharris to vote Trump.

Here comes the alt-right brigade

[Fury]

Lol @ the Old Lincoln was a republican line. As if the Republican Party hasn’t changed over time

[GONYK]

You're not arguing in good faith because you're just resorting to rhetorical fallacies and evading the points against him

You also don't disagree with his policies, as they are very much in line with the current Republican party, you just wish he were less of a dick about it. Your issue is with the man, not the ideas, but you fail to realize the ideas of the Republicans are always gonna lead to people like Trump being in charge.

The republican party was founded with Abraham Lincoln as its first president for the party (arguably the best president in our history). I don't see how you can make those assertions.

Trump was a registered democrat in the 2000's. So this idea that republicans are always like trump is just wrong.

If Tim Scott wanted to run and he was running against trump I would vote for Tim Scott (I like him significantly better). But I don't think he wants to run too much sh*t comes with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Tim Scott votes in line with Trump 94% of the time.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/tim-scott/

Which is like, top 10 in the Senate. Really just proving my point that your issue isn't the policy, just the way he says it. You want him to stop saying the quiet part out loud.

Also, the Republican party of Lincoln is what became the Democrat party of today.

Lincoln was anti-slavery and thought federal power should supercede states rights regarding slavery. In fact, he used federal power to defeat the socially conservative south and ensure the Union.

Lincoln also protested the Mexican American War, opposed free trade, instituted free public colleges and put in place the income tax.

[DOT]

The republican party was founded with Abraham Lincoln as its first president for the party (arguably the best president in our history). I don't see how you can make those assertions.

Trump was a registered democrat in the 2000's. So this idea that republicans are always like trump is just wrong.

If Tim Scott wanted to run and he was running against trump I would vote for Tim Scott (I like him significantly better). But I don't think he wants to run too much sh*t comes with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Tim Scott votes in line with Trump 94% of the time.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/tim-scott/

Which is like, top 10 in the Senate. Really just proving my point that your issue isn't the policy, just the way he says it. You want him to stop saying the quiet part out loud.

Also, the Republican party of Lincoln is what became the Democrat party of today.

Lincoln was anti-slavery and thought federal power should supercede states rights regarding slavery. In fact, he used federal power to defeat the socially conservative south and ensure the Union.

Lincoln also protested the Mexican American War, opposed free trade, instituted free public colleges and put in place the income tax.

All you have to do is go to a rally for each party

One has Confederate flags, the other does not

The ones who wave the flag of traitors claim to be the Party of Lincoln, who fought against the ones who waived that same flag.

[mpharris36]

You're not arguing in good faith because you're just resorting to rhetorical fallacies and evading the points against him

You also don't disagree with his policies, as they are very much in line with the current Republican party, you just wish he were less of a dick about it. Your issue is with the man, not the ideas, but you fail to realize the ideas of the Republicans are always gonna lead to people like Trump being in charge.

The republican party was founded with Abraham Lincoln as its first president for the party (arguably the best president in our history). I don't see how you can make those assertions.

Trump was a registered democrat in the 2000's. So this idea that republicans are always like trump is just wrong.

If Tim Scott wanted to run and he was running against trump I would vote for Tim Scott (I like him significantly better). But I don't think he wants to run too much sh*t comes with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Tim Scott votes in line with Trump 94% of the time.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/tim-scott/

Which is like, top 10 in the Senate. Really just proving my point that your issue isn't the policy, just the way he says it. You want him to stop saying the quiet part out loud.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy

Upon his taking office in 1969, Nixon also put into effect America’s first affirmative action program. Dubbed the Philadelphia Plan, it imposed racial goals and timetables on the building trade unions, first in Philadelphia and then elsewhere. Now, would a man seeking to build an electoral base of Deep South white supremacists actually promote the first program to legally discriminate in favor of blacks? This is absurd.

Only one Dixiecrat congressman, Albert Watson of South Carolina, switched to the GOP. The rest, more than 200 Dixiecrat senators, congressmen, governors and high elected officials, all stayed in the Democratic Party.

He barely even campaigned in the south. Unless you believe he covertly sent secret codes to the dumb racists down south. It was more due to the fact the south was industrializing. And it wasn't until the 1980's and 1990's the south completely switched and that was more due to Reagan where he preached the conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity.

If you want to go back in history you should read up on Southern Democrats.

[Pointgod]

This thread doing a good job convincing mpharris to vote Trump.

Isn’t the right the people that always believe in free speech no matter how abhorrent? This thread has been an exchange of ideas but you somehow believe that pointing out logical fallacies and errors in reasoning somehow push people to support Trump? Tell me how that makes sense.

[Jalen Bluntson]

This is crazy. The Trump administration is allegedly sterilizing women in ICE detention against their will according to a whistleblower, Dawn Wooten, a nurse at one of the facilities.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/like-an-experimental-concentration-camp-whistleblower-complaint-alleges-mass-hysterectomies-at-ice-detention-center/

What are you CNN? NOWHERE is Trump mentioned in there. This is private jails. Are you suggesting this is being ordered by the Trump admin? What makes you say that? I hate when I have to play devil's advocate but your claim needs an explanation.

I’m much better than CNN. Just stick with me and you’ll be fine.

Let me ask you this, why would the hospitals do this on their own? That actually makes less sense.

It is private prison doctors? I am not reading the article again. Nowhere does it mention Trump so....you are implying that it is his admin ordering this. Not that the article has anything to do with your accusation. That is my point.

[Pointgod]

The republican party was founded with Abraham Lincoln as its first president for the party (arguably the best president in our history). I don't see how you can make those assertions.

Trump was a registered democrat in the 2000's. So this idea that republicans are always like trump is just wrong.

If Tim Scott wanted to run and he was running against trump I would vote for Tim Scott (I like him significantly better). But I don't think he wants to run too much sh*t comes with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Tim Scott votes in line with Trump 94% of the time.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/tim-scott/

Which is like, top 10 in the Senate. Really just proving my point that your issue isn't the policy, just the way he says it. You want him to stop saying the quiet part out loud.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy

Upon his taking office in 1969, Nixon also put into effect America’s first affirmative action program. Dubbed the Philadelphia Plan, it imposed racial goals and timetables on the building trade unions, first in Philadelphia and then elsewhere. Now, would a man seeking to build an electoral base of Deep South white supremacists actually promote the first program to legally discriminate in favor of blacks? This is absurd.

Only one Dixiecrat congressman, Albert Watson of South Carolina, switched to the GOP. The rest, more than 200 Dixiecrat senators, congressmen, governors and high elected officials, all stayed in the Democratic Party.

He barely even campaigned in the south. Unless you believe he covertly sent secret codes to the dumb racists down south. It was more due to the fact the south was industrializing. And it wasn't until the 1980's and 1990's the south completely switched and that was more due to Reagan where he preached the conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity.

If you want to go back in history you should read up on Southern Democrats.

Come on my friend. I’m not even American and I know the deeply racist history of the Southern Strategy and the Republican Party. And Nixon’s campaign of law and order (sound familiar?) was a well known covert racist appeal. You’ll need to find a way better argument than Nixon.

[Fury]

The republican party was founded with Abraham Lincoln as its first president for the party (arguably the best president in our history). I don't see how you can make those assertions.

Trump was a registered democrat in the 2000's. So this idea that republicans are always like trump is just wrong.

If Tim Scott wanted to run and he was running against trump I would vote for Tim Scott (I like him significantly better). But I don't think he wants to run too much sh*t comes with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Tim Scott votes in line with Trump 94% of the time.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/tim-scott/

Which is like, top 10 in the Senate. Really just proving my point that your issue isn't the policy, just the way he says it. You want him to stop saying the quiet part out loud.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy

Upon his taking office in 1969, Nixon also put into effect America’s first affirmative action program. Dubbed the Philadelphia Plan, it imposed racial goals and timetables on the building trade unions, first in Philadelphia and then elsewhere. Now, would a man seeking to build an electoral base of Deep South white supremacists actually promote the first program to legally discriminate in favor of blacks? This is absurd.

Only one Dixiecrat congressman, Albert Watson of South Carolina, switched to the GOP. The rest, more than 200 Dixiecrat senators, congressmen, governors and high elected officials, all stayed in the Democratic Party.

He barely even campaigned in the south. Unless you believe he covertly sent secret codes to the dumb racists down south. It was more due to the fact the south was industrializing. And it wasn't until the 1980's and 1990's the south completely switched and that was more due to Reagan where he preached the conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity.

If you want to go back in history you should read up on Southern Democrats.

Read this, then get back to us

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-republican-choice/

[Pointgod]

And can we please put to rest the lie that Trump inherited a horrible economy from Obama or that he saw more economic success than Obama? Almost every objective measure of economic growth puts Obama’s best years over Trump. Trump continued along a trend that was already happening under Obama.

Read on Twitter

[Pointgod]

Bernie hater, James Carville admits that Bernie's (and Wingo's) critique of Biden's campaign messages is correct.

Watch on YouTube

Since when is Carville a Bernie hater? Favoring one candidate over the other does not make one a hater. He’s probably forgotten more political knowledge than both you and I combined know.

[DOT]

The republican party was founded with Abraham Lincoln as its first president for the party (arguably the best president in our history). I don't see how you can make those assertions.

Trump was a registered democrat in the 2000's. So this idea that republicans are always like trump is just wrong.

If Tim Scott wanted to run and he was running against trump I would vote for Tim Scott (I like him significantly better). But I don't think he wants to run too much sh*t comes with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Tim Scott votes in line with Trump 94% of the time.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/tim-scott/

Which is like, top 10 in the Senate. Really just proving my point that your issue isn't the policy, just the way he says it. You want him to stop saying the quiet part out loud.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy

Upon his taking office in 1969, Nixon also put into effect America’s first affirmative action program. Dubbed the Philadelphia Plan, it imposed racial goals and timetables on the building trade unions, first in Philadelphia and then elsewhere. Now, would a man seeking to build an electoral base of Deep South white supremacists actually promote the first program to legally discriminate in favor of blacks? This is absurd.

Only one Dixiecrat congressman, Albert Watson of South Carolina, switched to the GOP. The rest, more than 200 Dixiecrat senators, congressmen, governors and high elected officials, all stayed in the Democratic Party.

He barely even campaigned in the south. Unless you believe he covertly sent secret codes to the dumb racists down south. It was more due to the fact the south was industrializing. And it wasn't until the 1980's and 1990's the south completely switched and that was more due to Reagan where he preached the conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity.

If you want to go back in history you should read up on Southern Democrats.

I genuinely don't know how to talk to someone who denies objective reality

Like, this stuff happened. Fake historian Dinesh D'Souza is not a valid source on the matter when we have literal quotes from the people involved at the time explaining what they were trying to do. He also lies in that first quote, LBJ created the first affirmative action program, not Nixon. Really not that hard to find, and shows he's not arguing in good faith

AND YES HE DID send codes to the dumb racists, that's what dog whistles are for, for f*ck's sake. Do I need to post the Nixon strategist quote where he literally says they can't say the n-word so they have to code it but people know what they're talking about again?

You're quoting actual propaganda. What's next, are you gonna sell me on the "lost cause" of the Confederacy, that it wasn't about slavery but States' Rights? Or will it be "actually, the Nazis were socialists"?

Facts don't care about your feelings mp. I know you don't think you're racist, and you don't want to be associated with racists, but you are associating with them. The modern Republican party was built on a foundation of racism, and people like Trump are its inevitable conclusion. And you ignoring history and propagating lies to make yourself feel better about supporting these people is not something a good person does.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[mpharris36]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Tim Scott votes in line with Trump 94% of the time.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/tim-scott/

Which is like, top 10 in the Senate. Really just proving my point that your issue isn't the policy, just the way he says it. You want him to stop saying the quiet part out loud.

Also, the Republican party of Lincoln is what became the Democrat party of today.

Lincoln was anti-slavery and thought federal power should supercede states rights regarding slavery. In fact, he used federal power to defeat the socially conservative south and ensure the Union.

Lincoln also protested the Mexican American War, opposed free trade, instituted free public colleges and put in place the income tax.

All you have to do is go to a rally for each party

One has Confederate flags, the other does not

The ones who wave the flag of traitors claim to be the Party of Lincoln, who fought against the ones who waived that same flag.

Again I can't speak for everyone. I am not from the south, I have no family or affiliation with the confederate flag. Butfreedom of speech is a constitutional right and even if we don't like something we have to deal with it...because the alternative is to have the gov't suppress freedom of speech and who would be in charge of what should be suppressed and what can not?

Don't get me wrong, send all the racist to hell. If I knew someone in my life was racist I wouldn't associate with them. If I was buying coffee from a known racist I would go somewhere else because I wouldn't support his business. My point is the people should suppress racists by not giving them the time of day instead of lumping everyone within a political party a racist.

[mpharris36]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Tim Scott votes in line with Trump 94% of the time.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/tim-scott/

Which is like, top 10 in the Senate. Really just proving my point that your issue isn't the policy, just the way he says it. You want him to stop saying the quiet part out loud.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy

Upon his taking office in 1969, Nixon also put into effect America’s first affirmative action program. Dubbed the Philadelphia Plan, it imposed racial goals and timetables on the building trade unions, first in Philadelphia and then elsewhere. Now, would a man seeking to build an electoral base of Deep South white supremacists actually promote the first program to legally discriminate in favor of blacks? This is absurd.

Only one Dixiecrat congressman, Albert Watson of South Carolina, switched to the GOP. The rest, more than 200 Dixiecrat senators, congressmen, governors and high elected officials, all stayed in the Democratic Party.

He barely even campaigned in the south. Unless you believe he covertly sent secret codes to the dumb racists down south. It was more due to the fact the south was industrializing. And it wasn't until the 1980's and 1990's the south completely switched and that was more due to Reagan where he preached the conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity.

If you want to go back in history you should read up on Southern Democrats.

I genuinely don't know how to talk to someone who denies objective reality

Like, this stuff happened. Fake historian Dinesh D'Souza is not a valid source on the matter when we have literal quotes from the people involved at the time explaining what they were trying to do. He also lies in that first quote, LBJ created the first affirmative action program, not Nixon. Really not that hard to find, and shows he's not arguing in good faith

AND YES HE DID send codes to the dumb racists, that's what dog whistles are for, for f*ck's sake. Do I need to post the Nixon strategist quote where he literally says they can't say the n-word so they have to code it but people know what they're talking about again?

You're quoting actual propaganda. What's next, are you gonna sell me on the "lost cause" of the Confederacy, that it wasn't about slavery but States' Rights? Or will it be "actually, the Nazis were socialists"?

Facts don't care about your feelings mp. I know you don't think you're racist, and you don't want to be associated with racists, but you are associating with them. The modern Republican party was built on a foundation of racism, and people like Trump are its inevitable conclusion. And you ignoring history and propagating lies to make yourself feel better about supporting these people is not something a good person does.

KDOT you have used Wikipedia a few times and want to lecture me on valid sources?

So we got the crux. You are calling me a racist because of the way I vote. Well done. Glad we settled that.

[2010]

Also, the Republican party of Lincoln is what became the Democrat party of today.

Lincoln was anti-slavery and thought federal power should supercede states rights regarding slavery. In fact, he used federal power to defeat the socially conservative south and ensure the Union.

Lincoln also protested the Mexican American War, opposed free trade, instituted free public colleges and put in place the income tax.

All you have to do is go to a rally for each party

One has Confederate flags, the other does not

The ones who wave the flag of traitors claim to be the Party of Lincoln, who fought against the ones who waived that same flag.

Again I can't speak for everyone. I am not from the south, I have no family or affiliation with the confederate flag. Butfreedom of speech is a constitutional right and even if we don't like something we have to deal with it...because the alternative is to have the gov't suppress freedom of speech and who would be in charge of what should be suppressed and what can not?

Don't get me wrong, send all the racist to hell. If I knew someone in my life was racist I wouldn't associate with them. If I was buying coffee from a known racist I would go somewhere else because I wouldn't support his business. My point is the people should suppress racists by not giving them the time of day instead of lumping everyone within a political party a racist.

With all that said, you should denounce Trump and Rasho for consistency purposes.

[2010]

I will never call mpharris a racist. I respect him and firmly believe he has no malice. He's just sort of like Dolan. His alliances be kinda shakey (Trump, republican'ts, police officers, etc.)

[Fury]

Also, the Republican party of Lincoln is what became the Democrat party of today.

Lincoln was anti-slavery and thought federal power should supercede states rights regarding slavery. In fact, he used federal power to defeat the socially conservative south and ensure the Union.

Lincoln also protested the Mexican American War, opposed free trade, instituted free public colleges and put in place the income tax.

All you have to do is go to a rally for each party

One has Confederate flags, the other does not

The ones who wave the flag of traitors claim to be the Party of Lincoln, who fought against the ones who waived that same flag.

Again I can't speak for everyone. I am not from the south, I have no family or affiliation with the confederate flag. Butfreedom of speech is a constitutional right and even if we don't like something we have to deal with it...because the alternative is to have the gov't suppress freedom of speech and who would be in charge of what should be suppressed and what can not?

Don't get me wrong, send all the racist to hell. If I knew someone in my life was racist I wouldn't associate with them. If I was buying coffee from a known racist I would go somewhere else because I wouldn't support his business. My point is the people should suppress racists by not giving them the time of day instead of lumping everyone within a political party a racist.

Why don’t you read the article I linked? The political party you support depends on racists. They pander to them.

Romney had pushed for the adoption of a civil rights plank to the 1964 Republican platform, but his efforts failed miserably. Instead, Goldwater’s nomination marked a full embrace of a strategy that sought to win the votes of white Southern Democrats disillusioned by their party’s embrace of reforms aimed at racial equity. Today’s GOP is still informed by this “Southern strategy.”

It goes more in depth and it’s really informative. You should read it.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-republican-choice/amp/

[DOT]

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy





He barely even campaigned in the south. Unless you believe he covertly sent secret codes to the dumb racists down south. It was more due to the fact the south was industrializing. And it wasn't until the 1980's and 1990's the south completely switched and that was more due to Reagan where he preached the conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity.

If you want to go back in history you should read up on Southern Democrats.

I genuinely don't know how to talk to someone who denies objective reality

Like, this stuff happened. Fake historian Dinesh D'Souza is not a valid source on the matter when we have literal quotes from the people involved at the time explaining what they were trying to do. He also lies in that first quote, LBJ created the first affirmative action program, not Nixon. Really not that hard to find, and shows he's not arguing in good faith

AND YES HE DID send codes to the dumb racists, that's what dog whistles are for, for f*ck's sake. Do I need to post the Nixon strategist quote where he literally says they can't say the n-word so they have to code it but people know what they're talking about again?

You're quoting actual propaganda. What's next, are you gonna sell me on the "lost cause" of the Confederacy, that it wasn't about slavery but States' Rights? Or will it be "actually, the Nazis were socialists"?

Facts don't care about your feelings mp. I know you don't think you're racist, and you don't want to be associated with racists, but you are associating with them. The modern Republican party was built on a foundation of racism, and people like Trump are its inevitable conclusion. And you ignoring history and propagating lies to make yourself feel better about supporting these people is not something a good person does.

KDOT you have used Wikipedia a few times and want to lecture me on valid sources?

So we got the crux. You are calling me a racist because of the way I vote. Well done. Glad we settled that.

Wikipedia has sources at the bottom. It's just simpler to link to the whole thing, but you can read the direct quotes which were given freely at the time

I didn't say you were a racist. I said you associate with them, and you're free to do so as long as you understand exactly what you're doing, but you're denying what you're doing, and denying the reality of things that happened like the Southern Strategy.

[DOT]

I will never call mpharris a racist. I respect him and firmly believe he has no malice. He's just sort of like Dolan. His alliances be kinda shakey (Trump, republican'ts, police officers, etc.)

I don't think he's racist either

I think there are a lot of Republicans who aren't racist and genuinely believe what the party is selling them

But you can't deny the objective reality that the modern Republican party was built to cater to racists, and that almost all racists will vote Republican.