DingleJerry wrote:Well, remember Sabonis was a key piece to bringing Paul George to OKC
Yep. And he would have made signing Ersan redundant back then.
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DingleJerry wrote:Well, remember Sabonis was a key piece to bringing Paul George to OKC
He was benched at one point by both kidd and Bud for not playing hard enough.giannis and 1 wrote:DavidDunn21 wrote:Oh really?giannis and 1 wrote:You can argue that Middleton is not a 2nd option on a championship team and you can argue that he has a bad contract. But calling him lazy and not competitive is ridiculous. I'm sorry but that's the truth.
What evidence do you have?
I've got every 4th Quarter and him getting benched for not playing hard and him admitting he didn't shoot for three months and his overall physique and DOZENS OF BIG GAMES IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND PLAYOFFS. I've got statistical, anecdotal, quotes from his own mouth and eye test.
Show your cards sir. I call.
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Benched for not playing hard? Show me proof of this. Him not shooting for months has a million better explanations than him being lazy. If he was lazy, why would he not SHOOT out of all things? That's like one of the easiest things to do no the floor. "Too lazy to shoot" is an amazing take.
Dozens of big games in the playoffs... you mean when he hits those clutch shots against the Bulls in 2015 or the Celtics in 2018 or the Heat this year.
aII part of the growing process. khris has the uItimate oId man game so he has to give effort on defense. when he coasts he stands out Iike a sore thumb. he stiII batties it and aIways wiII to some degree in the reg season especiaIIy. but its no different than giannis being benched or even heId out for emotionai spaz sometimes even borderIne bitch moves. every guy has his warts. it doesnt change the impact if they can diaI it in when it mattersjute2003 wrote:He was benched at one point by both kidd and Bud for not playing hard enough.giannis and 1 wrote:DavidDunn21 wrote:Oh really?
What evidence do you have?
I've got every 4th Quarter and him getting benched for not playing hard and him admitting he didn't shoot for three months and his overall physique and DOZENS OF BIG GAMES IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND PLAYOFFS. I've got statistical, anecdotal, quotes from his own mouth and eye test.
Show your cards sir. I call.
Sent from my moto g(7) power using RealGM mobile app
Benched for not playing hard? Show me proof of this. Him not shooting for months has a million better explanations than him being lazy. If he was lazy, why would he not SHOOT out of all things? That's like one of the easiest things to do no the floor. "Too lazy to shoot" is an amazing take.
Dozens of big games in the playoffs... you mean when he hits those clutch shots against the Bulls in 2015 or the Celtics in 2018 or the Heat this year.
paulpressey25 wrote:DingleJerry wrote:Well, remember Sabonis was a key piece to bringing Paul George to OKC
Yep. And he would have made signing Ersan redundant back then.
humanrefutation wrote:I think Giannis would benefit more from a guy like Lillard or Curry or prime Paul - guys who can take over a game and take the pressure off of Giannis to create.
John Henson wrote:This lady just asked me who I play for and I said the Milwaukee Bucks, she quickly replied “oh the highschool across the street?”
paulpressey25 wrote:coolhandluke121 wrote:Honestly the biggest issue is probably one spectacularly awful personnel move after another during the Kidd era.
We spent years on here talking about it. Bud came and put plywood over the cracks in the hull, but the water finally poured in.
The draft was the area of failures
2014 - Jabari. Not a bad pick in context but we needed to deal him fall of 2016 when the Celtics were calling offering that pick and Crowder. In the 2nd round I wouldn't have expected them to find Jokic, but Inglis and JOB were washouts
2015 - Vaughn and dumping multiple pick for Greivis. Ugh
2016 - We could have Jamal Murray on this roster NOW, but Kidd played injured Middleton 43 minutes and Giannis 41 minutes to get that OT victory on the Sixers the last week of the year bumping us down to #10 slot. Then we compounded it by taking Thon over Sabonis. We did steal Brogdon in round two, but then lost him.
2017 - DJ Wilson. Terrible. Nothing great after us but good active bodies like OG, John Collins, Jarrett Allen and Kuzma
You just can't botch four straight draft years. Add in tying up your salary cap with the Henson extension, Monroe and Plumlee deals.
Baddy Chuck wrote:humanrefutation wrote:I think Giannis would benefit more from a guy like Lillard or Curry or prime Paul - guys who can take over a game and take the pressure off of Giannis to create.
Maybe even LeBron James or Prime Michael Jordan.
humanrefutation wrote:Baddy Chuck wrote:humanrefutation wrote:I think Giannis would benefit more from a guy like Lillard or Curry or prime Paul - guys who can take over a game and take the pressure off of Giannis to create.
Maybe even LeBron James or Prime Michael Jordan.
Cute. I know those guys are damn good, but my point is more about their style of play.
Middleton is good, but he isn't the right kind of #2 to elevate Giannis's game or vice versa. Even if you believe Middleton is a top 15 guy - and that is debatable but not far off either way - Giannis needs a top 15-20 caliber teammate who can take the pressure off of him, run the offense and break down compact defenses. Middleton isn't that guy.
John Henson wrote:This lady just asked me who I play for and I said the Milwaukee Bucks, she quickly replied “oh the highschool across the street?”
humanrefutation wrote:Baddy Chuck wrote:humanrefutation wrote:I think Giannis would benefit more from a guy like Lillard or Curry or prime Paul - guys who can take over a game and take the pressure off of Giannis to create.
Maybe even LeBron James or Prime Michael Jordan.
Cute. I know those guys are damn good, but my point is more about their style of play.
Middleton is good, but he isn't the right kind of #2 to elevate Giannis's game or vice versa. Even if you believe Middleton is a top 15 guy - and that is debatable but not far off either way - Giannis needs a top 15-20 caliber teammate who can take the pressure off of him, run the offense and break down compact defenses. Middleton isn't that guy.
humanrefutation wrote:Middleton improved this year. He's not the reason we didn't go further. You can argue whether he's a max player - frankly, I'm fairly comfortable saying another team would have given him a max contract if we had let him test free agency. But I don't think he and Giannis do enough to elevate each other during the games. I think Giannis would benefit more from a guy like Lillard or Curry or prime Paul - guys who can take over a game and take the pressure off of Giannis to create. Khris just isn't that guy.
Baddy Chuck wrote:humanrefutation wrote:Baddy Chuck wrote:Maybe even LeBron James or Prime Michael Jordan.
Cute. I know those guys are damn good, but my point is more about their style of play.
Middleton is good, but he isn't the right kind of #2 to elevate Giannis's game or vice versa. Even if you believe Middleton is a top 15 guy - and that is debatable but not far off either way - Giannis needs a top 15-20 caliber teammate who can take the pressure off of him, run the offense and break down compact defenses. Middleton isn't that guy.
I suppose what I meant is that is there anyone disputing that a full blown superstar like the guys you listed wouldn't be better then Middleton?
DavidDunn21 wrote:But it's not full blown superstar guys. Going into next year literally all those guys who people foolishly debated Khris was better or as good as have lapped Khris. Butler, Murray, Booker, Beal, Mitchell, Tatum, healthy Klay, etc. are all better and in most cases much better. Guys like CP3 and Lowry would've been far better for us this last two years but not necessarily moving forward.
We'll probably wait till the trade deadline and see if Beal is available for a King's Ransom, but short of that, we are now officially stuck (even if Giannis resigns) attempting to do the Dirk thing and put a one time collection of very good players together and hoping to catch a few breaks. Which is why Khris will finally be moved along with Bledsoe this year, I think. Middleton simply doesn't move the needle enough for that price, which you all know.
Or another way of looking at it: this year going into the playoffs, would you rather have Bledsoe and Khris or Smart and Brown? Middleton (might) be the best player of the four, but Bledsoe brings our chances of winning down so much and Smart is such a winner that it's a no-brainer, if not for 82 games, definitely for 16.
We need to accept Giannis' limitations, which includes his lack of a go-to shot and the dumb things he does playing from the Dark Side of the Force. When Giannis does dumb or un-clutch things, that would've been surmountable if Khris was a stone cold killer, but he's not. He's a loose handled over-qualified 6th man. So when Giannis does dumb things in big situations it affects the confidence of the team, but Big Balls Cassell isn't coming through that door. But as PP25 said, there are still scenarios where we can put together a Championship squad of one great player and a bunch of very good ones. Would've been nice to still have Brogdon, huh?
John Henson wrote:This lady just asked me who I play for and I said the Milwaukee Bucks, she quickly replied “oh the highschool across the street?”