James Wiseman

[BlazersBroncos]

He is a lot like Whiteside - except probably without the lousy intangibles.

Whiteside is a bit of a lumberer. He has incredible timing on blocking shots and knows how to use his wingspan, but he really isnt nearly as twitched up as Wiseman. Watch the both run the court from defense down to offense, its not really close.

Wiseman athletically is pretty much a taller, longer Mitchell Robinson, but with a better jumper.

[nolang1]

Using Jokic as positive argument for Wiseman is completly losing the point.

Wiseman WILL NEVER be Jokic. Jokic isn't even a center by the traditional definition. Wiseman will be a rim-runner. You can find rim-runner everywhere.

All I'm saying he's not as good as you are making him to be. I'd draft him top-5 for sure, but stop throwing names like Jokic and Kat around him. He'll never be that player.

You are obsessed with centers.

No, it’s more that others are so obsessed with the idea of a 6’8 two-way playmaking wing that they’ll shoehorn the description onto anyone who vaguely matches it, even players who shoot low percentages and do not figure to be good defenders.

You just have to find good players where you can, and just because most of the good players born in a 5-year span happened to be guards or wings rather than bigs doesn’t mean a whole lot about who the best players will be in a given draft or the direction the league will take.

Again it’s a very dumb strawman to say he actually has to be a certain kind of player, it’s a bad draft at the top and he just has to be better than the other players left on the board when he gets selected. Nobody from this draft is going to be the #1 option on a championship team, and once you get past the notion that the best all-around player who can handle the ball all the time and guard all over the court tends to be better than the best big (which should be so obvious already as to not even be worth mentioning) it becomes clear that once you get down to like the 6th-best player at a given position, there’s not that much difference between the #6 big (Adebayo/Gobert) and the #6 wing (Paul George/Middleton) or point guard (Westbrook/Kyrie).

[NO-KG-AI]

You realize that even if the talent in the league were distributed so evenly that a team's ability to advance in the postseason was dictated solely by how good their best player was, only the 8 best players in the league would get out of the first round each year. AD did in fact get out of the first round in 2018 (then his team lost to the Warriors, what a bum I guess). Jokic got out of the first round last season, and Embiid got out of the first round the two seasons prior. Horrible, horrible examples all around, and that's before even getting into what one would have to be smoking to think that anyone in this draft is even close to Doncic.

Yeah but hes supposed to be a top 8 player. Those yrs I mean. The NO Pelicans weren't lacking in talent. And I think that's what he meant when he said transcendent. He never denied his ability, moreso the ability of coaches or teams nowadays to build a franchise around a big man, which really is a shame of today's basketball. You're more likely to win as a big by submitting to being a role player.

But hey, he won this yr and for the first time in my life I watched Lebron defer to a bigman from a statistical stand point.

He “won” a glorified summer league tourney. I don’t ever see Davis staying healthy enough to win an actual NBA championship as a major piece

Yes, NOLA had solid teams around him. Old timey Centers simply aren’t The Guys in the contemporary league, plain & simple

And to the user above who said “all it takes is one Center to alter perception” lmao. No. Not even close. Huge lumbering centers are dying out for a reason: it’s the most irrelevant player archetype in the modern NBA, due almost solely to the fact that they are unable to defend the perimeter, or to defend anything outside of the paint, really

Our teams in Nola around AD sucked, and they were extremely injured with an awful coach. AD has a lot of dings, but he’s never been injured to the point where it made him miss significant time or affected the record by a lot. You’re stretching a bunch of points to try and defend your awful point.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[baldur]

Who is selecting him? Warriors or hornets?

[Stillwater]

Who is selecting him? Warriors or hornets?

my guess is he only goes top 3 if the pick is traded... none of those orgs are great fits for a project center even if his upside is substantial based on anthro. He is overrated as an athlete compared to Oturu and Okongwu as well.
CHA is the only one that maybe has him ranked as worth that gamble but they rarely ever pick high upside prospects as opposed to highly skilled ones with high floors. I have him going later in the 4-6 range esp if CHA passes and nobody tearing it down traded up into the top 2 for him which could happen because the upside is real just years away.

[amcoolio]

Who is selecting him? Warriors or hornets?

my guess is he only goes top 3 if the pick is traded... none of those orgs are great fits for a project center even if his upside is substantial based on anthro. He is overrated as an athlete compared to Oturu and Okongwu as well.
CHA is the only one that maybe has him ranked as worth that gamble but they rarely ever pick high upside prospects as opposed to highly skilled ones with high floors. I have him going later in the 4-6 range esp if CHA passes and nobody tearing it down traded up into the top 2 for him which could happen because the upside is real just years away.

Charlotte is high on Okongwu, and I would love that pick but I hope to god they take Hayes

I don't see the NBA trending away from the current meta any time soon. And in the current NBA, Washington and Miles can be your bigs.

For me to take someone top 3, they have to be an offensive creator. I don't see Wiseman creating offense. He's a nice player to have, but he will have to be taken out of games at the end against most teams because he is useless on the perimeter on defense.

At least Okongwu can guard 3 positions. I can't see Wiseman guarding anything but Drummond/Whiteside/Dwight types, which many teams just don't play in the 4th quarter anymore. Other teams will just play forwards out on the perimeter against Wiseman and negate his shot blocking.

I think the "Charlotte high on Wiseman" stuff is smokescreens. Charlotte has always been secretive and runs a tight ship about who they want in the draft/free agency. If I had to guess Charlotte probably wants Edwards, Okongwu, Avdija, Hayes in that order. (I really dislike Edwards but he at least has some potential if he can grow up quickly)

[TheSuzerain]

He is a lot like Whiteside - except probably without the lousy intangibles.

Whiteside is a bit of a lumberer. He has incredible timing on blocking shots and knows how to use his wingspan, but he really isnt nearly as twitched up as Wiseman. Watch the both run the court from defense down to offense, its not really close.

Wiseman athletically is pretty much a taller, longer Mitchell Robinson, but with a better jumper.

Mitch Robinson is definitely more explosive than Wiseman. Wiseman doesn't jump like him.

[kobyz]

Wiseman is a better prospect than Ayton

[Ruzious]

He is a lot like Whiteside - except probably without the lousy intangibles.

Whiteside is a bit of a lumberer. He has incredible timing on blocking shots and knows how to use his wingspan, but he really isnt nearly as twitched up as Wiseman. Watch the both run the court from defense down to offense, its not really close.

Wiseman athletically is pretty much a taller, longer Mitchell Robinson, but with a better jumper.

Mitch Robinson is definitely more explosive than Wiseman. Wiseman doesn't jump like him.

Yeah, Robinson's the better athlete, while Wiseman is more skilled offensively.

[Stillwater]

Who is selecting him? Warriors or hornets?

my guess is he only goes top 3 if the pick is traded... none of those orgs are great fits for a project center even if his upside is substantial based on anthro. He is overrated as an athlete compared to Oturu and Okongwu as well.
CHA is the only one that maybe has him ranked as worth that gamble but they rarely ever pick high upside prospects as opposed to highly skilled ones with high floors. I have him going later in the 4-6 range esp if CHA passes and nobody tearing it down traded up into the top 2 for him which could happen because the upside is real just years away.

Charlotte is high on Okongwu, and I would love that pick but I hope to god they take Hayes

I don't see the NBA trending away from the current meta any time soon. And in the current NBA, Washington and Miles can be your bigs.

For me to take someone top 3, they have to be an offensive creator. I don't see Wiseman creating offense. He's a nice player to have, but he will have to be taken out of games at the end against most teams because he is useless on the perimeter on defense.

At least Okongwu can guard 3 positions. I can't see Wiseman guarding anything but Drummond/Whiteside/Dwight types, which many teams just don't play in the 4th quarter anymore. Other teams will just play forwards out on the perimeter against Wiseman and negate his shot blocking.

I think the "Charlotte high on Wiseman" stuff is smokescreens. Charlotte has always been secretive and runs a tight ship about who they want in the draft/free agency. If I had to guess Charlotte probably wants Edwards, Okongwu, Avdija, Hayes in that order. (I really dislike Edwards but he at least has some potential if he can grow up quickly)

makes sense...
I also would not be surprised if being at 3 they maybe play it a little different than normal approach as far as prospect upside vs prospect floor, but if they dont I could easily see Haliburton or possibly Lewis getting sleeper looks at 3.But Hayes overall is probably the better long term investment

[shotsquatch]

If we saw this guy play a full college year the discussion about him going number one wouldn't even be a question. An athletic seven footer with a nice shooting stroke. Are you kidding me? If he falls out of the top three it'll be highway robbery for whatever team gets him. I'm willing to die on this hill.

Unless your team is already set at the center position, you take this kid. Lamelo Ball over this guy? Give me a break.

[SF_Warriors]

Who is selecting him? Warriors or hornets?

my guess is he only goes top 3 if the pick is traded... none of those orgs are great fits for a project center even if his upside is substantial based on anthro. He is overrated as an athlete compared to Oturu and Okongwu as well.
CHA is the only one that maybe has him ranked as worth that gamble but they rarely ever pick high upside prospects as opposed to highly skilled ones with high floors. I have him going later in the 4-6 range esp if CHA passes and nobody tearing it down traded up into the top 2 for him which could happen because the upside is real just years away.

Charlotte is high on Okongwu, and I would love that pick but I hope to god they take Hayes

I don't see the NBA trending away from the current meta any time soon. And in the current NBA, Washington and Miles can be your bigs.

For me to take someone top 3, they have to be an offensive creator. I don't see Wiseman creating offense. He's a nice player to have, but he will have to be taken out of games at the end against most teams because he is useless on the perimeter on defense.

At least Okongwu can guard 3 positions. I can't see Wiseman guarding anything but Drummond/Whiteside/Dwight types, which many teams just don't play in the 4th quarter anymore. Other teams will just play forwards out on the perimeter against Wiseman and negate his shot blocking.

I think the "Charlotte high on Wiseman" stuff is smokescreens. Charlotte has always been secretive and runs a tight ship about who they want in the draft/free agency. If I had to guess Charlotte probably wants Edwards, Okongwu, Avdija, Hayes in that order. (I really dislike Edwards but he at least has some potential if he can grow up quickly)

You can get away with having an average center if the rest of your team is good, or if the team already has a star PF. The warriors had draymond up front and a great collection of perimeter talent/depth even before they had KD. If you have four all stars at every other position, that fifth position obviously does not need to be above average.

Star big men have always been a part of championship teams. You don't necessarily need a star center, but at least a star front court player.
The heatles had bosh who was an all star big that slid to center.
Kobe lakers had Pau/Bynum
Raps had siakam
We can go on and on

Even today:
Heat has Bam
Lakers have AD who can clearly play center.
Nugs have Jokic
Celts didnt have an all star big, but has probably the best collection of wings in the nba today and a star point guard. And they lost partly due to not having a star frontcourt player.


Looking at the history of the nba, championship teams have always had a star big. Maybe not an elite guy like a shaq or duncan, but at least an all star like Love or Bosh, and they do not necessarily have to be the focal point of the offense. This myth that a good center cant help a team become championship caliber is false imo.

Not saying wiseman is that type of guy, but if he can bring elements of an above average center, he would definitely help a team like the warriors, where a lot of what he is projected to bring is a glaring weakness for them.

[ILOVEIT]

Wiseman is a better prospect than Ayton

Why?

[GregOden]

Wiseman is a better prospect than Ayton

Why?

If you don't get any details, then its probably some obsession about height and/or standing reach.

[Roddy B for 3]

my guess is he only goes top 3 if the pick is traded... none of those orgs are great fits for a project center even if his upside is substantial based on anthro. He is overrated as an athlete compared to Oturu and Okongwu as well.
CHA is the only one that maybe has him ranked as worth that gamble but they rarely ever pick high upside prospects as opposed to highly skilled ones with high floors. I have him going later in the 4-6 range esp if CHA passes and nobody tearing it down traded up into the top 2 for him which could happen because the upside is real just years away.

Charlotte is high on Okongwu, and I would love that pick but I hope to god they take Hayes

I don't see the NBA trending away from the current meta any time soon. And in the current NBA, Washington and Miles can be your bigs.

For me to take someone top 3, they have to be an offensive creator. I don't see Wiseman creating offense. He's a nice player to have, but he will have to be taken out of games at the end against most teams because he is useless on the perimeter on defense.

At least Okongwu can guard 3 positions. I can't see Wiseman guarding anything but Drummond/Whiteside/Dwight types, which many teams just don't play in the 4th quarter anymore. Other teams will just play forwards out on the perimeter against Wiseman and negate his shot blocking.

I think the "Charlotte high on Wiseman" stuff is smokescreens. Charlotte has always been secretive and runs a tight ship about who they want in the draft/free agency. If I had to guess Charlotte probably wants Edwards, Okongwu, Avdija, Hayes in that order. (I really dislike Edwards but he at least has some potential if he can grow up quickly)

You can get away with having an average center if the rest of your team is good, or if the team already has a star PF. The warriors had draymond up front and a great collection of perimeter talent/depth even before they had KD. If you have four all stars at every other position, that fifth position obviously does not need to be above average.

Star big men have always been a part of championship teams. You don't necessarily need a star center, but at least a star front court player.
The heatles had bosh who was an all star big that slid to center.
Kobe lakers had Pau/Bynum
Raps had siakam
We can go on and on

Even today:
Heat has Bam
Lakers have AD who can clearly play center.
Nugs have Jokic
Celts didnt have an all star big, but has probably the best collection of wings in the nba today and a star point guard. And they lost partly due to not having a star frontcourt player.


Looking at the history of the nba, championship teams have always had a star big. Maybe not an elite guy like a shaq or duncan, but at least an all star like Love or Bosh, and they do not necessarily have to be the focal point of the offense. This myth that a good center cant help a team become championship caliber is false imo.

Not saying wiseman is that type of guy, but if he can bring elements of an above average center, he would definitely help a team like the warriors, where a lot of what he is projected to bring is a glaring weakness for them.

I want to tak onto this post by saying,
-the Warriors just before Durant had a center who was a former #1 pick, elite passing for the position, 10ish ppg and a DPOY candidate. That's pretty dang close to a star level play.
Toronto not only had Siakim, but Ibaka and Gasol, two players who've been top 5 DPOY multiple times. And Gasol is an elite passer for the position while bother can stretch the floor.
-i don't think Love was a good that championship run as any if these guys, but yeah a top 5 GOAT having the most important series of his career + a 25ppg efficient PG perinial all-star, + Tristan Thompson + Love can win you a championship.
- the Heatles were a Hassan Whiteside level of player away from winning 4 straight chips imo. But ironically he was brought back to the league from international bball the off-season LBJ walked.


To bring this thread back to Wiseman. The NBA has always been dominated by teams with excellent big man play, but recently 6'9" PG LBJ and 6'7" Draymond+Steph+Iggy+Klay+KD(or Barnes) had about a 4 year run.

Unless you have LBJ or the Warriors death lineup you need an all-star caliber player at C (or a All-star caliber PF who can play C).

I think Wiseman will end up somewhere between Deaandre Jordan and an MVP level player, but I can understand people preferring Edwards if they see Bradley Beal with AllNBA defense or they see Lamelo as a future 20/12/8 guy on 45/35/80 shooting.

I don't understand the people who have Wiseman outside the lottory though. And I think people who don't value franchise centers are just wrong and have been for a long time.

The NBA also did go through a talent drought for centers about after Howard faded, that + Heatles + Warriors death lineup + no one ever crediting Bogut really brought the "center position is irrelevant nonsense to the forefront.

I like Kevin O'Connor but during the WCF this season he had an article arguing if you don't have "special" C it's better to be cheap and value wavy there.... We'll duh. If I don't have a "special" PG is it smarter to sign Eric Bledsoe for the MLE or 4years70mil.

And what does "special" mean? Is Nurkic special? Is Dragic? Is Siakim? Is Ibaka? Is Smart?

Just a vague "if you don't have a great player spend recourses elsewhere.". so insightful

[nolang1]

After one game he's ahead of Rudy Gobert and tied with DeAndre Jordan in career three-pointers made. Only 7 behind Whiteside!

[nolang1]

2 more threes in the 1st half. He might catch Whiteside by next week, and then people might have to come up with different comps for him.

[Stillwater]

A lot better than I thought he would be out of the gate fits right on on that roster

[EvanZ]

Shooting is obviously way ahead of schedule and I was fairly optimistic about that, but he’s looked pretty bad on d. Needs to toughen up.

[SwipeDaFox]

He looks like the real deal.

It just goes to show how you just can't judge a player, good or bad, for a bunch of collage games.

Reading some of the comments here after seeing him in pre-season/yesterday is just mind boggling.