OT: Miami Marlins hire FIRST EVER WOMAN AS GM

[LivingLegend]

[Balllin]

An asian woman is less capable of achieving this, but not because of anything about her inherently. She is less capable of achieving this because outside systems and people exist to make it hard on her to achieve it. She didn't create the society which makes it hard on her, but she has had to overcome it. So the fact that she did achieve it is commendable.

checking her background - her father was a financial analyst, while her mother was a banker. which implies high socio-economical status as well as high social capital. this immensely helped her to attend university of chicago, a top tier university. A degree from a local top tier university makes it exponentially more likely to become an intern with the local pro sports team chicago white sox. when reading her wikipedia, i do not get the impression that her gender or race played a hugely positive nor negative role in her getting that GM gig. So why make it about her gender?

i would claim that a low socio-economic status white male would have a harder path to becoming a pro sports GM than her personally.

[xdrta+]

An asian woman is less capable of achieving this, but not because of anything about her inherently. She is less capable of achieving this because outside systems and people exist to make it hard on her to achieve it. She didn't create the society which makes it hard on her, but she has had to overcome it. So the fact that she did achieve it is commendable.

checking her background - her father was a financial analyst, while her mother was a banker. which implies high socio-economical status as well as high social capital. this immensely helped her to attend university of chicago, a top tier university. A degree from a local top tier university makes it exponentially more likely to become an intern with the local pro sports team chicago white sox. when reading her wikipedia, i do not get the impression that her gender played a hugely positive nor negative role in her getting that GM gig. So why make it about her gender?

i would claim that a low socio-economic status white male would have a harder path to becoming a pro sports GM than her personally.

That's probably why white males, many of them "low socio-economic status" have been the norm as pro sports GMs for the past 100 years while she's the first woman. That makes sense.

[Balllin]

That's probably why white males, many of them "low socio-economic status" have been the norm as pro sports GMs for the past 100 years while she's the first woman. That makes sense.

that could be more a matter of choice rather than systemic oppression. pro sports, especially baseball and football, are much more popular among working class white males than among women, making a career in pro sports much more desirable among this demographic. So of course there will be more low-SES white males in these positions, because there are simply many, many more that try. it's a numbers game. also take into account many executive who might be from a working class background but were actually former players.

how many women actually want to get into pro sports management?

check this paper, that basically says the higher gender equality is in a country, the less women enrol in a STEM university program.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797617741719

[Jakay]

So Eve was hired to be a GM?

[Pelon chingon]

Hiring her was easy its firing her that will come with backlash.

[Harry Garris]

Lets be honest with that resume she should have been hired earlier than this but this is good to hear. Always tougher when you are basically a pioneer.

Society is slow to change and is never going to develop at the pace that we young idealists want it to. Its better to be happy about the good changes that DO happen rather than being negative about everything, imo.

[Neutral 123]

It cheapens her accomplishment according to YOU. That's not what other people think when they hear "1st woman GM". Other people might actually look at her accomplishment as even more special than it is, including her. I'll wait until I hear something from her that indicates that she feels her accomplishment is "cheapened".

you are implicitly saying that being an asian woman makes her inherently less capable of achieving this, which in turn makes it extra remarkable that she has actually pulled it off. it sounds as if you were talking about a mentally disabled person that in spite of their disability has been able to solve a mathematical problem and due to their inherent disability needs extra admiration and acknowledgement for their feat. patronizing much?

An asian woman is less capable of achieving this, but not because of anything about her inherently. She is less capable of achieving this because outside systems and people exist to make it hard on her to achieve it. She didn't create the society which makes it hard on her, but she has had to overcome it. So the fact that she did achieve it is commendable.

Is that what happened? I hear people parrot this kind of stuff over and over again without a speck of evidence. Repeating something ad nauseum doesn't transform it into a fact.

[Neutral 123]

Lets be honest with that resume she should have been hired earlier than this but this is good to hear. Always tougher when you are basically a pioneer.

Society is slow to change and is never going to develop at the pace that we young idealists want it to. Its better to be happy about the good changes that DO happen rather than being negative about everything, imo.

There's a very good reason for that. The change young idealists want has often been tried and failed already. Tradition exists for a reason, and that reason is that the countless millions that have lived before, figured out this was the best way to go and sometimes for reasons even they didn't understand.

There's this odd assumption that if it weren't for sinister outside forces that everyone would be equally represented in every endeavor.

But that hasn't happened anywhere or any time in Earth's history.

The MLB is in America and America has a small Asian population, that's a factor. Women, despite similar access to sports, don't have nearly the same interest in sports as men, that's a factor. Women, being the ones who give birth, and generally not wanting to sacrifice a home life, not wanting to sacrifice having and caring for her children, certain careers are going to be far less palatable, that's a huge factor.

There's nothing unusual or sinister about some made up delay to the rise of a woman to this position. She's just a very intelligent, hard working and dedicated woman who chose a field most women aren't interested in. An interesting story or curiosity perhaps but that's it. No need for so much of the virtue signaling that cheapens what she's done.

[Durant Durant]

Surely a trailblazer of sorts. Expect lady GMs in the Nba as early as 2022.

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[Curmudgeon]

This has nothing to do with her sex. She's smart and she's paid her dues. She's been highly successful in every role, starting with her stint as an intern with the White Sox.

[Jadoogar]

... because it's a big deal?

Instead of being congratulated for being the most qualified and fit for the job, she'll simply be commended for beingthe first woman in that position.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using RealGM mobile app

[Phish Tank]

This was a long time coming. There were only like 4 female assistant GMs in history, including her. Her history with the Yankees 1998-2001 certainly made a difference, but it's not like she's unqualified by any means. She has a vast experience that many won't possess.

In any perfect world, she would've entered the GM ranks around the same time Cashman & others like Theo Epstein did, as wonder kids. She's not old though, so I think she'll be with the Marlins and make her stamp immediately.

As an Asian American myself, this is pretty dope to see.

[dhsilv2]

Lets be honest with that resume she should have been hired earlier than this but this is good to hear. Always tougher when you are basically a pioneer.

Society is slow to change and is never going to develop at the pace that we young idealists want it to. Its better to be happy about the good changes that DO happen rather than being negative about everything, imo.

There's a very good reason for that. The change young idealists want has often been tried and failed already. Tradition exists for a reason, and that reason is that the countless millions that have lived before, figured out this was the best way to go and sometimes for reasons even they didn't understand.

There's this odd assumption that if it weren't for sinister outside forces that everyone would be equally represented in every endeavor.

But that hasn't happened anywhere or any time in Earth's history.

The MLB is in America and America has a small Asian population, that's a factor. Women, despite similar access to sports, don't have nearly the same interest in sports as men, that's a factor. Women, being the ones who give birth, and generally not wanting to sacrifice a home life, not wanting to sacrifice having and caring for her children, certain careers are going to be far less palatable, that's a huge factor.

There's nothing unusual or sinister about some made up delay to the rise of a woman to this position. She's just a very intelligent, hard working and dedicated woman who chose a field most women aren't interested in. An interesting story or curiosity perhaps but that's it. No need for so much of the virtue signaling that cheapens what she's done.

This is mostly true. That said there is 100% a level of difficulty for people to excel in fields that don't fit gender norms. Yeah this is mostly a story of a woman who has very different goals from most women being successful in a world that doesn't care nearly as much about all this stuff as some people think. But by no means is being an oddity in every room not going to be a challenge to someone. This is the classic case of too many extremes being looked at.

But both those who seem to think this is a nothing story and those who think the old boys club has been cracked are over shooting things. The "old boys" club are the owners anyway and they just want to make more money.

[Woodsanity]

Lets be honest with that resume she should have been hired earlier than this but this is good to hear. Always tougher when you are basically a pioneer.

Society is slow to change and is never going to develop at the pace that we young idealists want it to. Its better to be happy about the good changes that DO happen rather than being negative about everything, imo.

There's a very good reason for that. The change young idealists want has often been tried and failed already. Tradition exists for a reason, and that reason is that the countless millions that have lived before, figured out this was the best way to go and sometimes for reasons even they didn't understand.

There's this odd assumption that if it weren't for sinister outside forces that everyone would be equally represented in every endeavor.

But that hasn't happened anywhere or any time in Earth's history.

The MLB is in America and America has a small Asian population, that's a factor. Women, despite similar access to sports, don't have nearly the same interest in sports as men, that's a factor. Women, being the ones who give birth, and generally not wanting to sacrifice a home life, not wanting to sacrifice having and caring for her children, certain careers are going to be far less palatable, that's a huge factor.

There's nothing unusual or sinister about some made up delay to the rise of a woman to this position. She's just a very intelligent, hard working and dedicated woman who chose a field most women aren't interested in. An interesting story or curiosity perhaps but that's it. No need for so much of the virtue signaling that cheapens what she's done.

This isn't about why women generally wouldn't be interested in trying for the GM position.
Its about how someone with 30+ years of experience on top tier teams didn't get a GM position for now. Passed up for unqualified, white male GMs with little to no experience. People have been saying that she was a great GM candidate since the early 2000s but it took 15-20 years for her finally to get a job.

So naturally, her race and gender played a big role. With her credentials if she were a white male she would have gotten the job ages ago. Asians have it hard in America. Most minorities have lower standards to get into top colleges.

Asians actually have the opposite problem, they are discriminated against and face higher standards than whites and other minorities when applying for colleges since "too many" Asians are in top colleges. This is just one of many examples.

[KqWIN]

It's notable that Dirk was the first European NBA MVP and the greatest European basketball player ever. The acknowledgement of this historical context does not cheapen his accomplishment, nor does "being European" trump his playing career. It actually is possible to appreciate someone's accomplishments in a different context because they did it in a special context. Europeans can look up to Dirk and be proud of him because they some kind of kinship with him. Everyone has felt this. It's like someone from your town or state going on to do big things.

Same thing here for Kim Ng. She's the first female and the first Asian American GM. It is notable, and very impressive to me. Both women and Asian Americans as a whole have a hard time achieving leadership positions in the American workplace. Unfortunately, whenever a woman enters a "male" space people lose their mind. Some can only see woman in a certain context, and their manly sports don't include them. It's a shame, but it does make me appreciate the historical context of this more.

[Neutral 123]

It's notable that Dirk was the first European NBA MVP and the greatest European basketball player ever. The acknowledgement of this historical context does not cheapen his accomplishment, nor does "being European" trump his playing career. It actually is possible to appreciate someone's accomplishments in a different context because they did it in a special context. Europeans can look up to Dirk and be proud of him because they some kind of kinship with him. Everyone has felt this. It's like someone from your town or state going on to do big things.

Same thing here for Kim Ng. She's the first female and the first Asian American GM. It is notable, and very impressive to me. Both women and Asian Americans as a whole have a hard time achieving leadership positions in the American workplace. Unfortunately, whenever a woman enters a "male" space people lose their mind. Some can only see woman in a certain context, and their manly sports don't include them. It's a shame, but it does make me appreciate the historical context of this more.

Right. The difference and the issue is the narrative which at the heart of this story. I still remember the movie Cool Runnings. It never occurred to me that the reason why jamaicans never participated in bobsledding previously was because jamaicans were denied 'access' to snow and it was a great accomplishment and story bc they overcame an exclusive and predatory system to keep them out.

Nothing wrong with making note and women and Asians saying to themselves to this could be something to they could do as well. That's very different from characterizing this position of one denied all Asians and women, and therefore handed to her whether she is qualified or not. It's insulting. I have no reason to believe she is in that position because someone thinks she's the best for it. These other narratives are belittling.

[Harry Garris]

Lets be honest with that resume she should have been hired earlier than this but this is good to hear. Always tougher when you are basically a pioneer.

Society is slow to change and is never going to develop at the pace that we young idealists want it to. Its better to be happy about the good changes that DO happen rather than being negative about everything, imo.

There's a very good reason for that. The change young idealists want has often been tried and failed already. Tradition exists for a reason, and that reason is that the countless millions that have lived before, figured out this was the best way to go and sometimes for reasons even they didn't understand.

There's this odd assumption that if it weren't for sinister outside forces that everyone would be equally represented in every endeavor.

But that hasn't happened anywhere or any time in Earth's history.

The MLB is in America and America has a small Asian population, that's a factor. Women, despite similar access to sports, don't have nearly the same interest in sports as men, that's a factor. Women, being the ones who give birth, and generally not wanting to sacrifice a home life, not wanting to sacrifice having and caring for her children, certain careers are going to be far less palatable, that's a huge factor.

There's nothing unusual or sinister about some made up delay to the rise of a woman to this position. She's just a very intelligent, hard working and dedicated woman who chose a field most women aren't interested in. An interesting story or curiosity perhaps but that's it. No need for so much of the virtue signaling that cheapens what she's done.

Yeah I'm realistic about that and also realize that just because I want a certain societal change to happen doesn't mean I'm entitled to it.

[Neutral 123]

Society is slow to change and is never going to develop at the pace that we young idealists want it to. Its better to be happy about the good changes that DO happen rather than being negative about everything, imo.

There's a very good reason for that. The change young idealists want has often been tried and failed already. Tradition exists for a reason, and that reason is that the countless millions that have lived before, figured out this was the best way to go and sometimes for reasons even they didn't understand.

There's this odd assumption that if it weren't for sinister outside forces that everyone would be equally represented in every endeavor.

But that hasn't happened anywhere or any time in Earth's history.

The MLB is in America and America has a small Asian population, that's a factor. Women, despite similar access to sports, don't have nearly the same interest in sports as men, that's a factor. Women, being the ones who give birth, and generally not wanting to sacrifice a home life, not wanting to sacrifice having and caring for her children, certain careers are going to be far less palatable, that's a huge factor.

There's nothing unusual or sinister about some made up delay to the rise of a woman to this position. She's just a very intelligent, hard working and dedicated woman who chose a field most women aren't interested in. An interesting story or curiosity perhaps but that's it. No need for so much of the virtue signaling that cheapens what she's done.

This isn't about why women generally wouldn't be interested in trying for the GM position.
Its about how someone with 30+ years of experience on top tier teams didn't get a GM position for now. Passed up for unqualified, white male GMs with little to no experience. People have been saying that she was a great GM candidate since the early 2000s but it took 15-20 years for her finally to get a job.

So naturally, her race and gender played a big role. With her credentials if she were a white male she would have gotten the job ages ago. Asians have it hard in America. Most minorities have lower standards to get into top colleges.

Asians actually have the opposite problem, they are discriminated against and face higher standards than whites and other minorities when applying for colleges since "too many" Asians are in top colleges. This is just one of many examples.

That is a statement that requires at least a bit of evidence don't you think?

As for Asians facing higher standards it is precisely a push for diversity at all costs which is why that's the case. This is why I believe you higher or admit who is the best. Something many people do not like because it will mean disparities, like less women in baseball.

[Neutral 123]

Society is slow to change and is never going to develop at the pace that we young idealists want it to. Its better to be happy about the good changes that DO happen rather than being negative about everything, imo.

There's a very good reason for that. The change young idealists want has often been tried and failed already. Tradition exists for a reason, and that reason is that the countless millions that have lived before, figured out this was the best way to go and sometimes for reasons even they didn't understand.

There's this odd assumption that if it weren't for sinister outside forces that everyone would be equally represented in every endeavor.

But that hasn't happened anywhere or any time in Earth's history.

The MLB is in America and America has a small Asian population, that's a factor. Women, despite similar access to sports, don't have nearly the same interest in sports as men, that's a factor. Women, being the ones who give birth, and generally not wanting to sacrifice a home life, not wanting to sacrifice having and caring for her children, certain careers are going to be far less palatable, that's a huge factor.

There's nothing unusual or sinister about some made up delay to the rise of a woman to this position. She's just a very intelligent, hard working and dedicated woman who chose a field most women aren't interested in. An interesting story or curiosity perhaps but that's it. No need for so much of the virtue signaling that cheapens what she's done.

Yeah I'm realistic about that and also realize that just because I want a certain societal change to happen doesn't mean I'm entitled to it.

What change do you want? If you recognize that people are different and went different things in life then to have equality would mean forcing people to do things they don't want to do and having people in positions they may not be qualified for.

The change I'd love to see is everyone accept that people are different and that will mean different outcomes. I'd love to see everyone reach their full potential in whatever they want to do, not see everyone equally represented because that's somehow more pleasing to my eyes.