Moderator: ijspeelman
JonFromVA wrote:Stillwater wrote:When Sexton gets 8 dimes with no DG zero people on here show respect.
That's your job ... the rest of us understand context.
Stillwater wrote:JonFromVA wrote:Stillwater wrote:When Sexton gets 8 dimes with no DG zero people on here show respect.
That's your job ... the rest of us understand context.
you mean the context you have drummed up in your imagination I guess right ? gtfo you are absolutely the epitome of clueless about how much more difficult it is to do what Sexton has done in the NBA compared to what DG does. Of course teams hope Sexton passes more
LivingLegend wrote:I think a lot of it is the offense. I have said on here 1000 times that at the beginning of the year the Cavs actually ran a movement offense with emphasis on passing and cutting. Since that Allen trade that offense no longer exists.
They have been running slow, boring, stand around offense for months now. That needs to chance if we want to get the best out of this team. The current offense only play is high P&R.
The offense changed and team got crappier and now everyone hates everyone. I dont care how many injures you have or what competition your playing your offense should be your offense. Also, this team also reverted back to playing with zero effort on defense--which was a staple of this team the first 2 months.
I think everyone is just burnt out and is mentally checked out waiting for the offseason.
Stillwater wrote:or maybe they just suck
LivingLegend wrote:Stillwater wrote:or maybe they just suck
They suck, but Im blaming at bare minimum 60% of their suckage on the coaching staff. The Cavs have FAR too much talent on thsi roster to be losing to some of the teams they are losing to.
That OKC loss? The one last week against the Magic? IDGAF who the Cavs have injured--I can only name 1 player on the Magic roster and he is a rookie. And you lose? At Home? with a bunch of top 10 draft picks + Love + Jarrett Allen on your team?
No. no no. That should never happen. They Cavs are bad--but have for a large part of the year have been underachieving relative to their talent level.
To be honest, this team should be further along than they currently are. The fact that they are not is a incitement on the coaching staff. Hire Nate McMillian and see how much better this team looks immediately.
JonFromVA wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Stillwater wrote:or maybe they just suck
They suck, but Im blaming at bare minimum 60% of their suckage on the coaching staff. The Cavs have FAR too much talent on thsi roster to be losing to some of the teams they are losing to.
That OKC loss? The one last week against the Magic? IDGAF who the Cavs have injured--I can only name 1 player on the Magic roster and he is a rookie. And you lose? At Home? with a bunch of top 10 draft picks + Love + Jarrett Allen on your team?
No. no no. That should never happen. They Cavs are bad--but have for a large part of the year have been underachieving relative to their talent level.
To be honest, this team should be further along than they currently are. The fact that they are not is a incitement on the coaching staff. Hire Nate McMillian and see how much better this team looks immediately.
Well, it won't be long until we see whether the organization is happy with all the losing and what it's doing for our draft position; or whether they'd rather hit the plunger and fire Altman and Bickerstaff for failing to achieve anything close to a competitive level of play.
I'm not sure why Altman doesn't permit more media access/interviews. In a vacuum of information, there are still plenty of reporters willing to fill in the blanks even for a crappy team without a star. If the team can't communicate a vision to the fans, can they communicate one to the organization?
Signing Jarrett Allen this off-season is another big test for the organization. If they can get that done at a decent price without drama, it would be a very good sign that things are running better behind the scenes than they appear.
LivingLegend wrote:Stillwater wrote:or maybe they just suck
They suck, but Im blaming at bare minimum 60% of their suckage on the coaching staff. The Cavs have FAR too much talent on thsi roster to be losing to some of the teams they are losing to.
That OKC loss? The one last week against the Magic? IDGAF who the Cavs have injured--I can only name 1 player on the Magic roster and he is a rookie. And you lose? At Home? with a bunch of top 10 draft picks + Love + Jarrett Allen on your team?
No. no no. That should never happen. They Cavs are bad--but have for a large part of the year have been underachieving relative to their talent level.
To be honest, this team should be further along than they currently are. The fact that they are not is a incitement on the coaching staff. Hire Nate McMillian and see how much better this team looks immediately.
Prior to the West Coast trip, the offense was Drummond and Sexton taking a lot of shots against mediocre teams. It didn't seem very dynamic to me. Prince, who has been a very streaky shooter his entire career, was knocking down threes. That's really the only change I've seen.LivingLegend wrote:I think a lot of it is the offense. I have said on here 1000 times that at the beginning of the year the Cavs actually ran a movement offense with emphasis on passing and cutting. Since that Allen trade that offense no longer exists.
They have been running slow, boring, stand around offense for months now. That needs to chance if we want to get the best out of this team. The current offense only play is high P&R.
The offense changed and team got crappier and now everyone hates everyone. I dont care how many injures you have or what competition your playing your offense should be your offense. Also, this team also reverted back to playing with zero effort on defense--which was a staple of this team the first 2 months.
I think everyone is just burnt out and is mentally checked out waiting for the offseason.
jbk1234 wrote:Prior to the West Coast trip, the offense was Drummond and Sexton taking a lot of shots against mediocre teams. It didn't seem very dynamic to me. Prince, who has been a very streaky shooter his entire career, was knocking down threes. That's really the only change I've seen.LivingLegend wrote:I think a lot of it is the offense. I have said on here 1000 times that at the beginning of the year the Cavs actually ran a movement offense with emphasis on passing and cutting. Since that Allen trade that offense no longer exists.
They have been running slow, boring, stand around offense for months now. That needs to chance if we want to get the best out of this team. The current offense only play is high P&R.
The offense changed and team got crappier and now everyone hates everyone. I dont care how many injures you have or what competition your playing your offense should be your offense. Also, this team also reverted back to playing with zero effort on defense--which was a staple of this team the first 2 months.
I think everyone is just burnt out and is mentally checked out waiting for the offseason.
But that West Coast trip showed us who this team is. They're too reliant on scoring in the paint. The floor spacing sucks. Our three point shooting has to be bottom five in the NBA.
I'd legitimately considering letting Allen go in a S&T depending on what type of offers he gets because I think Hartenstein might be a better option for the starting unit long term. This is even more so the case if Mobley is on the board when we're picking. Love needs to go to bench. Sexton needs to be traded before his contract becomes an issue. But mostly this team needs a wing who is a pure shooter. I guy like Huerter.
JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:Prior to the West Coast trip, the offense was Drummond and Sexton taking a lot of shots against mediocre teams. It didn't seem very dynamic to me. Prince, who has been a very streaky shooter his entire career, was knocking down threes. That's really the only change I've seen.LivingLegend wrote:I think a lot of it is the offense. I have said on here 1000 times that at the beginning of the year the Cavs actually ran a movement offense with emphasis on passing and cutting. Since that Allen trade that offense no longer exists.
They have been running slow, boring, stand around offense for months now. That needs to chance if we want to get the best out of this team. The current offense only play is high P&R.
The offense changed and team got crappier and now everyone hates everyone. I dont care how many injures you have or what competition your playing your offense should be your offense. Also, this team also reverted back to playing with zero effort on defense--which was a staple of this team the first 2 months.
I think everyone is just burnt out and is mentally checked out waiting for the offseason.
But that West Coast trip showed us who this team is. They're too reliant on scoring in the paint. The floor spacing sucks. Our three point shooting has to be bottom five in the NBA.
I'd legitimately considering letting Allen go in a S&T depending on what type of offers he gets because I think Hartenstein might be a better option for the starting unit long term. This is even more so the case if Mobley is on the board when we're picking. Love needs to go to bench. Sexton needs to be traded before his contract becomes an issue. But mostly this team needs a wing who is a pure shooter. I guy like Huerter.
There's a case to be made that Love or Nance should be seeing a lot more minutes at C, but if we ever want to run an effective defense we will need to pay Allen. I like what we've seen from Hartenstein who is like 20 days younger, but I think Allen has a lot more upside on defense that we haven't seen or unleashed yet thanks to his combination of length, timing, and ability to cover ground.
Nance/Allen as the starting PF/C next year would be wonderful. Neither clogs the lane, Nance can step out to 3, Allen showed he can too if hes forced to, they both play energetic defense, they both are still growing and they both are GOOD TEAMMATES>
With these young players we always have to look forward to what they might do when their 25/26/27/etc. It's tricky in this day and age to be investing in the Center position, but I think there's a good chance we will get a pay off from investing in both of them.
We've seen this playout with Andy and Tristan who both continued to improve up to a point where they fell off. Andy due to injuries and Tristan due to reality TV. If Allen can avoid those pitfalls, I think his upside is much-much higher and Hartenstein's not too shabby either. IH is at nearly 17/13/5 per 36 at 22years which is way ahead of TT/Andy and not far behind Jokic.
So, yeah, there's a chance we could let Allen walk, sign IH and not regret it *if* when given more minutes he can keep up his level of production; but I'd much rather hold on to the few assets we have at this point.
I'd play Mobley at the 4 off the bench his first season. I like Allen, but I am worried whether he limits the team offensively and he's about to get paid. I also worry about how the game is officiated when it comes to smaller guys being able to foul bigger guys.LivingLegend wrote:JonFromVA wrote:jbk1234 wrote:Prior to the West Coast trip, the offense was Drummond and Sexton taking a lot of shots against mediocre teams. It didn't seem very dynamic to me. Prince, who has been a very streaky shooter his entire career, was knocking down threes. That's really the only change I've seen.
But that West Coast trip showed us who this team is. They're too reliant on scoring in the paint. The floor spacing sucks. Our three point shooting has to be bottom five in the NBA.
I'd legitimately considering letting Allen go in a S&T depending on what type of offers he gets because I think Hartenstein might be a better option for the starting unit long term. This is even more so the case if Mobley is on the board when we're picking. Love needs to go to bench. Sexton needs to be traded before his contract becomes an issue. But mostly this team needs a wing who is a pure shooter. I guy like Huerter.
There's a case to be made that Love or Nance should be seeing a lot more minutes at C, but if we ever want to run an effective defense we will need to pay Allen. I like what we've seen from Hartenstein who is like 20 days younger, but I think Allen has a lot more upside on defense that we haven't seen or unleashed yet thanks to his combination of length, timing, and ability to cover ground.
Nance/Allen as the starting PF/C next year would be wonderful. Neither clogs the lane, Nance can step out to 3, Allen showed he can too if hes forced to, they both play energetic defense, they both are still growing and they both are GOOD TEAMMATES>
With these young players we always have to look forward to what they might do when their 25/26/27/etc. It's tricky in this day and age to be investing in the Center position, but I think there's a good chance we will get a pay off from investing in both of them.
We've seen this playout with Andy and Tristan who both continued to improve up to a point where they fell off. Andy due to injuries and Tristan due to reality TV. If Allen can avoid those pitfalls, I think his upside is much-much higher and Hartenstein's not too shabby either. IH is at nearly 17/13/5 per 36 at 22years which is way ahead of TT/Andy and not far behind Jokic.
So, yeah, there's a chance we could let Allen walk, sign IH and not regret it *if* when given more minutes he can keep up his level of production; but I'd much rather hold on to the few assets we have at this point.
I mean gettting rid of Allen just to create another massive hole and spend another high draft pick on filling that position seems less than ideal. They already dug themselves a deep one by getting rid of KPJ prematurely.
Allen is 23 years old. He is already one of the elite rim protectors in the NBA and is more than competent enough as a finisher/lob threat. He has also shown some touch stepping out. He is the type of player you invest in, not dump. Dumping Allen just to draft Mobely seem like a good way to elongate a rebuild.
Not to mention--hes a high charictor guy. Something I actually value now considering the Cavs have more locker room instability over the past 5 years than any other team in the NBA.
jbk1234 wrote:I'd play Mobley at the 4 off the bench his first season. I like Allen, but I am worried whether he limits the team offensively and he's about to get paid. I also worry about how the game is officiated when it comes to smaller guys being able to foul bigger guys.LivingLegend wrote:JonFromVA wrote:
There's a case to be made that Love or Nance should be seeing a lot more minutes at C, but if we ever want to run an effective defense we will need to pay Allen. I like what we've seen from Hartenstein who is like 20 days younger, but I think Allen has a lot more upside on defense that we haven't seen or unleashed yet thanks to his combination of length, timing, and ability to cover ground.
Nance/Allen as the starting PF/C next year would be wonderful. Neither clogs the lane, Nance can step out to 3, Allen showed he can too if hes forced to, they both play energetic defense, they both are still growing and they both are GOOD TEAMMATES>
With these young players we always have to look forward to what they might do when their 25/26/27/etc. It's tricky in this day and age to be investing in the Center position, but I think there's a good chance we will get a pay off from investing in both of them.
We've seen this playout with Andy and Tristan who both continued to improve up to a point where they fell off. Andy due to injuries and Tristan due to reality TV. If Allen can avoid those pitfalls, I think his upside is much-much higher and Hartenstein's not too shabby either. IH is at nearly 17/13/5 per 36 at 22years which is way ahead of TT/Andy and not far behind Jokic.
So, yeah, there's a chance we could let Allen walk, sign IH and not regret it *if* when given more minutes he can keep up his level of production; but I'd much rather hold on to the few assets we have at this point.
I mean gettting rid of Allen just to create another massive hole and spend another high draft pick on filling that position seems less than ideal. They already dug themselves a deep one by getting rid of KPJ prematurely.
Allen is 23 years old. He is already one of the elite rim protectors in the NBA and is more than competent enough as a finisher/lob threat. He has also shown some touch stepping out. He is the type of player you invest in, not dump. Dumping Allen just to draft Mobely seem like a good way to elongate a rebuild.
Not to mention--hes a high charictor guy. Something I actually value now considering the Cavs have more locker room instability over the past 5 years than any other team in the NBA.
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LivingLegend wrote:jbk1234 wrote:I'd play Mobley at the 4 off the bench his first season. I like Allen, but I am worried whether he limits the team offensively and he's about to get paid. I also worry about how the game is officiated when it comes to smaller guys being able to foul bigger guys.LivingLegend wrote:
I mean gettting rid of Allen just to create another massive hole and spend another high draft pick on filling that position seems less than ideal. They already dug themselves a deep one by getting rid of KPJ prematurely.
Allen is 23 years old. He is already one of the elite rim protectors in the NBA and is more than competent enough as a finisher/lob threat. He has also shown some touch stepping out. He is the type of player you invest in, not dump. Dumping Allen just to draft Mobely seem like a good way to elongate a rebuild.
Not to mention--hes a high charictor guy. Something I actually value now considering the Cavs have more locker room instability over the past 5 years than any other team in the NBA.
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I think by playing Sexton/Garland together, the Cavs have pigeon holed themselves into having to keep Allen around for a long time strictly for his rim protection.
Stillwater wrote:LivingLegend wrote:jbk1234 wrote:I'd play Mobley at the 4 off the bench his first season. I like Allen, but I am worried whether he limits the team offensively and he's about to get paid. I also worry about how the game is officiated when it comes to smaller guys being able to foul bigger guys.
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I think by playing Sexton/Garland together, the Cavs have pigeon holed themselves into having to keep Allen around for a long time strictly for his rim protection.
This team is one high draft pick away from being competitive or completely overhauled. If they pick in the top 2 it stays as is in the short term imo unless they view Cade as a pg. I don't. So with one of Cade or Mobley being taken nothing changes with the smaller back court & if they pick in the 3-4 range and don't upgrade to Suggs or Green in the starting line up maybe moving down a couple spots then the time of development for Kuminga or Barnes or unknown other prospect will require another season of little spacing but maybe long term will be the best 2 way players and have to be taken, although neither would replace the small back court unless they use Barnes like they did for FLA ST. If there is any chance he can be a pg in the ben Simmons mold I would entertain the idea but I doubt that happens because the Cavs are going to be picking 10th after they beat the Mavs tonight and will walk away with the sleeper of the lottery: Josh Giddey the Lamelo of this draft.
LivingLegend wrote:I love any and every idea that would move Sexton to being a super 6th man and getting rid of Love.
tundraknight wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I love any and every idea that would move Sexton to being a super 6th man and getting rid of Love.
We used to have our super 6th man in Jordan Clarkson, who is currently a PERFECT FIT on the Jazz.
If the Cavaliers get lucky in the draft lottery, another direction they could take is to draft Jalen Green to start along side Garland in the backcourt.
And Sexton could be that energetic, scoring machine, super 6th man off the bench.
Those types of players are very important for teams with contender aspirations.
LivingLegend wrote:tundraknight wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I love any and every idea that would move Sexton to being a super 6th man and getting rid of Love.
We used to have our super 6th man in Jordan Clarkson, who is currently a PERFECT FIT on the Jazz.
If the Cavaliers get lucky in the draft lottery, another direction they could take is to draft Jalen Green to start along side Garland in the backcourt.
And Sexton could be that energetic, scoring machine, super 6th man off the bench.
Those types of players are very important for teams with contender aspirations.
Agreed, problem is convincing Sexton in a contract year to come off the bench. I dont think that will end well. The Cavs need to trade him because if the 2nd half of this season has taught me anything its that 1) Garland is the superior player to build around and 2) Kevin Love is beyond washed and needs to stop being a diva every 2 weeks.
I think the decision on whether you trade Sexton is going to be closely tied to what you can get for him. The important thing is not to extend him early and ruin his trade value by poison pilling him.LivingLegend wrote:tundraknight wrote:LivingLegend wrote:I love any and every idea that would move Sexton to being a super 6th man and getting rid of Love.
We used to have our super 6th man in Jordan Clarkson, who is currently a PERFECT FIT on the Jazz.
If the Cavaliers get lucky in the draft lottery, another direction they could take is to draft Jalen Green to start along side Garland in the backcourt.
And Sexton could be that energetic, scoring machine, super 6th man off the bench.
Those types of players are very important for teams with contender aspirations.
Agreed, problem is convincing Sexton in a contract year to come off the bench. I dont think that will end well. The Cavs need to trade him because if the 2nd half of this season has taught me anything its that 1) Garland is the superior player to build around and 2) Kevin Love is beyond washed and needs to stop being a diva every 2 weeks.
