GAME 63: Clippers (43-19) @ Pelicans (26-34)—Monday 5PM PDT

[RingColluder]

IDK man, don't really buy this "every season si new" particularly when PG and Reggie (and to an extent Kawhi) are older and more injury prone than ever w no history to back it up. Reggie I fear is going to get exposed defensively in the playoffs, I'd much prefer TMann/Rondo/Bev as the rotation with either Kennard or Reggie put in for brief period unless they are hot.

I'm upset by the last game obviously. This really could have cost us some of the ideal matchups for the playoffs. But either way of course I'm all in for the playoffs.

And if we come out the gates hot in round 1, I'll be vert happy and confident. But a lot of that rides on matchups and how in sync the team looks. Don't worry I will be emotionally at both my highest highs and hopefully not my lowest lows come playoff time This is just the warmup.


A nice Suns game tomorrow could help ease the morale, but still this was a very bad game to lose.

If we haven't seen your lowest of lows, and things don't work out well, we might need to send people other there, DeAndre Jordan style, to make sure you don't do anything rash

LOL

Things better work out well then!

[og15]

Well if they on the forum a lot they should be aware enough to realize I'm constantly commenting regardless win or lose. I can't speak fo the other poster, but that's disingenuous.

There is no concern, I was just simply stating that it's really surprising to think he will miraculously turn it around when he's done the exact opposite in playoff scenarios his entire career particularly recently injured or not.

And based on your last comment, I have zero confidence in our ability to trade an injury prone max contract guy like PG for anything other than a salary dump. It's not necessarily Blake Griffin levels, but do you really see teams like the Knicks or others trading for him for anything even close to similar value? We would not be getting a Beal player back (we already saw how he and Westbrook did) nor any strong level of first round picks from players, it just makes no sense to think it will be easy to get rid of IF he does not perform on the team.

That paragraph on your "playoff run" is your opinion, just because you're a mod and say it doesn't make it fact. I won't go further into it, but this was a big game whether you want to admit or not. Just bc we're not playing the Lakers or Suns doesn't matter, this was a game we NEEDED to win against a team we should logically be able to beat fairly easily. Instead, he totally flopped. 2 days off? No excuses.

And I agree, if PG has 1 bad game out of 10 that's fantastic. The problem with him is that as we saw last year, more likely is he has 2 nice games, and 4-5 BAD games below average verging on awful. And where are you getting this 64% success rate in the playoffs with PG in OKC? LMAO. Early first round exits EVERY SINGLE SEASOn he was there. Are you putting all of the blame on Westbrook then? The role players? The coaching? At some point He is the problem not everyone else.

I understand we are all Clippers fans... that doesn't mean any criticism against PG is met with a thousand knives and derision as "Not being a real Clippers fan". That's poppycock.

And again.. I'm not sure where you're getting these %'s from at all...

I don’t know what you mean by my post about playoff run. I’m saying that PG is going to be playing in the playoffs, there’s nothing we can do to change that, he couldn’t be traded this season, and it’s past the trade deadline even if he could have been traded, which he couldn’t. We’re stuck with him, so this isn’t like Lou Williams where one could complain for a change to be made (not that we have influence, but for the fun). Paul George is going to be on the Clippers for their playoff run, however long that is. I don’t really understand how that is my opinion, it is a simple fact.

Who said the game wasn’t important? It is MartintoVaught, and you seem to be inconsistent about whether you are saying so or not, who are saying it was MORE important. Was this game more important than vs Houston, Memphis, Portland or Minnesota? If yes, please explain exactly why. If no, then Paul George played well in 4/5 important recent games, he was trash in one. Okay, that sucked, but unless one was expecting 100% consistency from him, extrapolating that into something larger makes little sense. Yes, we know he had a bad playoff last season, that has NOTHING to do with him having 1 bad game in his last who knows how many.

Again, last season was on OUTLIER for Paul George. Paul George is not a tier 1 star when it comes to consistency, but Paul George doesn’t regularly play poorly in 4-5 out of 6-7 games, please show that data that isn’t last season, it isn’t there.

Where did I say “success rate”, I said CONSISTENCY, and I’m mainly focusing on scoring and efficiency as those are the main areas outside of rebounding that he was being expected to produce in. Consistency doesn’t mean wins, consistency means performing around or above average production. So we’re looking at for example, scoring within PPG average, and having a TS% within his average. There are too many factors to winning and losing a game to say that consistency of a single player is based on teams wins/loses in a series, that makes no sense

Paul George OKC: 11 games
22+ points, 9/11 games (82% of games)
26+ points, 7/11 games (64% of games)
TS% ~56% or higher 7/11 games (64% of games)
TS% - 58% of higher 6/11 games (55% of games)
Individual Ortg 109+ 6/11 games (55% of games)

I’m not basing this on how I “felt” about his performance. His first season with OKC, he averaged 21.9 ppg / 57% TS. They played the top defense in Utah, so one can expect some drop in efficiency against them. Did he have some issues, yes, but 6 games, 20+ pts in 4/6 games, 56% TS or higher in 4/6 games. His main issue was game 6, and of course that’s going to be magnified because it was the closing game, acceptably so. The next season he averaged 28 ppg / 58.3 TS% in the regular season. In the 5 games vs Portland, he had 26+ points in 4/5 games, 57% TS or higher in 3/5 games. He had 36 points in game 5, they were +6 when he was on the court. This time the criticism wasn’t about his performance, but about his team losing.

Yes, his consistency in scoring, efficiency and rebounding (which I didn’t show, but you can check) was in the mid-60% range with OKC in the playoffs. Playmaking was not a task of his on that team since Westbrook was there. Compare this to last season on the Clippers. If you look at his WHOLE playoff career since he became a star, he had the majority of his low scoring games and low efficiency games last playoffs, it was a large outlier even for a guy like him with tier 2 star consistency.

OK on your first paragraph. I think we have to go in expecting PG to probably most likely be inconsistent and needing OTHERS to pick up his slack. If it's not the case, even better, but expectations should be severely lowered based on his career so far. Good?

If we're living in the present, yes this game was extremely important. Where have I wavered in that? This should have been a game over in the 3rd quarter and us to be able to rest for the Suns, instead we lost badly bc of our leader PG. And all those games you mentioned (other than Portland) are against BAD teams. Of course he Is expected to play good in all of them, ESPECIALLY since we are in the midst of a mad sprint for the 1 seed to end the season. If we get a bad matchup draw and end up with bad playoff results, it's games like these you can look back to and point to why.

You're saying it's an OUTLIER that Paul George typically underperforms and does not STEP UP in the playoffs?? Really???

And if you're going to talk about consistency, why don't you talk about PG's CONSISTENT playoff failures the last 5-6 years of his career?? You cannot continue to blame just everyone around him at all times.

OK onto your next paragraph. You agree that yes he choked in the closing game and once again blew it in year 1. 2 FOR 16 IN A PIVOTAL GAME. Are you kidding me??? You're just brushing that off as if it's nothing??

Got it. In year 2 the Thunder were widely expected to win that series, and he did not get them over the hump. As with the RS, it appears you'e more focused on stat padding from him rather than the results of what happens given he is a MAX PLAYER/MVP supposed player and leader of the team.

I like his rebounding. I do not like especially this season and last the WAY he needs to score in order to succeed when he is playing poorly. And I certainly do not like whatsoever his PLAYMAKING.

If you really think PG is like the Cavs LeBron and just simply doesn't have enough help around him to "win games" then there is absolutely no way we can continue this discussion. time and time again we've seen him fail and underdeliver in the playoffs, it was a total mistake to get him from day 1. I foolishly thought he could do it, but alas his weaknesses get totally exposed in games without Kawhi when he is needed to be counted on.

If you're choosing to just focus on his stats as if he's on some scrub team w the Thunder that should have bene WINNING those series there's nothing to say.

2015: first round exit
2016: first round exit sweep (4-0)
2017: first round exit (2-16 in elimination game)
2018: first round exit (4-1)
2019: total collapse against the Nuggets

Come on. See what's in front of you.

I'm saying what I said in my post, which is not what you are saying, soo....

Again, Paul George's level of poor performance last playoffs was an outlier for his career. There's simply no debate about it, it is easily seen in the data, in watching the games, in whatever you want to look at. So using last playoffs as the baseline of how he performs in the post-season all the time, "2-3 good games and 4-5 bad ones is just disingenuous".

Inconsistent first options easily become great second options or co-first options alongside a better player. Paul George's success or lack thereof as a team leader is far less relevant when he's not the best player on this current team. Last season did not allow us to see how he could perform in that role, because, again, last season's playoffs was an outlier for him. Paul George was also playing alongside Westbrook who is about as unreliable as they come in terms of efficient play (in the playoffs), at times he's all about just putting up numbers and hoping it works (and sometimes it does).

[RingColluder]

I don’t know what you mean by my post about playoff run. I’m saying that PG is going to be playing in the playoffs, there’s nothing we can do to change that, he couldn’t be traded this season, and it’s past the trade deadline even if he could have been traded, which he couldn’t. We’re stuck with him, so this isn’t like Lou Williams where one could complain for a change to be made (not that we have influence, but for the fun). Paul George is going to be on the Clippers for their playoff run, however long that is. I don’t really understand how that is my opinion, it is a simple fact.

Who said the game wasn’t important? It is MartintoVaught, and you seem to be inconsistent about whether you are saying so or not, who are saying it was MORE important. Was this game more important than vs Houston, Memphis, Portland or Minnesota? If yes, please explain exactly why. If no, then Paul George played well in 4/5 important recent games, he was trash in one. Okay, that sucked, but unless one was expecting 100% consistency from him, extrapolating that into something larger makes little sense. Yes, we know he had a bad playoff last season, that has NOTHING to do with him having 1 bad game in his last who knows how many.

Again, last season was on OUTLIER for Paul George. Paul George is not a tier 1 star when it comes to consistency, but Paul George doesn’t regularly play poorly in 4-5 out of 6-7 games, please show that data that isn’t last season, it isn’t there.

Where did I say “success rate”, I said CONSISTENCY, and I’m mainly focusing on scoring and efficiency as those are the main areas outside of rebounding that he was being expected to produce in. Consistency doesn’t mean wins, consistency means performing around or above average production. So we’re looking at for example, scoring within PPG average, and having a TS% within his average. There are too many factors to winning and losing a game to say that consistency of a single player is based on teams wins/loses in a series, that makes no sense

Paul George OKC: 11 games
22+ points, 9/11 games (82% of games)
26+ points, 7/11 games (64% of games)
TS% ~56% or higher 7/11 games (64% of games)
TS% - 58% of higher 6/11 games (55% of games)
Individual Ortg 109+ 6/11 games (55% of games)

I’m not basing this on how I “felt” about his performance. His first season with OKC, he averaged 21.9 ppg / 57% TS. They played the top defense in Utah, so one can expect some drop in efficiency against them. Did he have some issues, yes, but 6 games, 20+ pts in 4/6 games, 56% TS or higher in 4/6 games. His main issue was game 6, and of course that’s going to be magnified because it was the closing game, acceptably so. The next season he averaged 28 ppg / 58.3 TS% in the regular season. In the 5 games vs Portland, he had 26+ points in 4/5 games, 57% TS or higher in 3/5 games. He had 36 points in game 5, they were +6 when he was on the court. This time the criticism wasn’t about his performance, but about his team losing.

Yes, his consistency in scoring, efficiency and rebounding (which I didn’t show, but you can check) was in the mid-60% range with OKC in the playoffs. Playmaking was not a task of his on that team since Westbrook was there. Compare this to last season on the Clippers. If you look at his WHOLE playoff career since he became a star, he had the majority of his low scoring games and low efficiency games last playoffs, it was a large outlier even for a guy like him with tier 2 star consistency.

OK on your first paragraph. I think we have to go in expecting PG to probably most likely be inconsistent and needing OTHERS to pick up his slack. If it's not the case, even better, but expectations should be severely lowered based on his career so far. Good?

If we're living in the present, yes this game was extremely important. Where have I wavered in that? This should have been a game over in the 3rd quarter and us to be able to rest for the Suns, instead we lost badly bc of our leader PG. And all those games you mentioned (other than Portland) are against BAD teams. Of course he Is expected to play good in all of them, ESPECIALLY since we are in the midst of a mad sprint for the 1 seed to end the season. If we get a bad matchup draw and end up with bad playoff results, it's games like these you can look back to and point to why.

You're saying it's an OUTLIER that Paul George typically underperforms and does not STEP UP in the playoffs?? Really???

And if you're going to talk about consistency, why don't you talk about PG's CONSISTENT playoff failures the last 5-6 years of his career?? You cannot continue to blame just everyone around him at all times.

OK onto your next paragraph. You agree that yes he choked in the closing game and once again blew it in year 1. 2 FOR 16 IN A PIVOTAL GAME. Are you kidding me??? You're just brushing that off as if it's nothing??

Got it. In year 2 the Thunder were widely expected to win that series, and he did not get them over the hump. As with the RS, it appears you'e more focused on stat padding from him rather than the results of what happens given he is a MAX PLAYER/MVP supposed player and leader of the team.

I like his rebounding. I do not like especially this season and last the WAY he needs to score in order to succeed when he is playing poorly. And I certainly do not like whatsoever his PLAYMAKING.

If you really think PG is like the Cavs LeBron and just simply doesn't have enough help around him to "win games" then there is absolutely no way we can continue this discussion. time and time again we've seen him fail and underdeliver in the playoffs, it was a total mistake to get him from day 1. I foolishly thought he could do it, but alas his weaknesses get totally exposed in games without Kawhi when he is needed to be counted on.

If you're choosing to just focus on his stats as if he's on some scrub team w the Thunder that should have bene WINNING those series there's nothing to say.

2015: first round exit
2016: first round exit sweep (4-0)
2017: first round exit (2-16 in elimination game)
2018: first round exit (4-1)
2019: total collapse against the Nuggets

Come on. See what's in front of you.

I'm saying what I said in my post, which is not what you are saying, soo....

Again, Paul George's level of poor performance last playoffs was an outlier for his career. There's simply no debate about it, it is easily seen in the data, in watching the games, in whatever you want to look at. So using last playoffs as the baseline of how he performs in the post-season all the time, "2-3 good games and 4-5 bad ones is just disingenuous".

Inconsistent first options easily become great second options or co-first options alongside a better player. Paul George's success or lack thereof as a team leader is far less relevant when he's not the best player on this current team. Last season did not allow us to see how he could perform in that role, because, again, last season's playoffs was an outlier for him. Paul George was also playing alongside Westbrook who is about as unreliable as they come in terms of efficient play (in the playoffs), at times he's all about just putting up numbers and hoping it works (and sometimes it does).

Has PG become a "great second option"??? Really? Maybe in his "MVP" season in OKC (before the playoffs) where Russ was more the leader, but he has gone from an inconsistent first option to an inconsistent second option making max money. Not good enough at all.

[RingColluder]

IDK man, don't really buy this "every season si new" particularly when PG and Reggie (and to an extent Kawhi) are older and more injury prone than ever w no history to back it up. Reggie I fear is going to get exposed defensively in the playoffs, I'd much prefer TMann/Rondo/Bev as the rotation with either Kennard or Reggie put in for brief period unless they are hot.

But every season IS new. Every GAME is new. On any given night even Kennard is going to be better than Paul George.

Think about it. Except for Kawhi, EVERY Clipper has something to prove. As George Patton or John Lennon said [I don't remember which, maybe it was Mike Tyson], nothing succeeds as planned. Let's let the story unfold.

I dont think Rondo has much to prove either.

The issue is when we have a max guy who is not transforming the team in a significantly positive way. Like CP3 for the Suns, or AD for the Lakers. The other Clippers with something to prove aren't making enough money to justify the burden and responsibility that PG has.

[NickP]

Hate to point the obvious but it's like the whole village trying to raise one petulant child. Smfh!

[MartinToVaught]

I gave this team and organization hell in the off-season because I thought the wrong people got the blame.

No, you gave the team hell because you were blaming the wrong people.

[og15]

OK on your first paragraph. I think we have to go in expecting PG to probably most likely be inconsistent and needing OTHERS to pick up his slack. If it's not the case, even better, but expectations should be severely lowered based on his career so far. Good?

If we're living in the present, yes this game was extremely important. Where have I wavered in that? This should have been a game over in the 3rd quarter and us to be able to rest for the Suns, instead we lost badly bc of our leader PG. And all those games you mentioned (other than Portland) are against BAD teams. Of course he Is expected to play good in all of them, ESPECIALLY since we are in the midst of a mad sprint for the 1 seed to end the season. If we get a bad matchup draw and end up with bad playoff results, it's games like these you can look back to and point to why.

You're saying it's an OUTLIER that Paul George typically underperforms and does not STEP UP in the playoffs?? Really???

And if you're going to talk about consistency, why don't you talk about PG's CONSISTENT playoff failures the last 5-6 years of his career?? You cannot continue to blame just everyone around him at all times.

OK onto your next paragraph. You agree that yes he choked in the closing game and once again blew it in year 1. 2 FOR 16 IN A PIVOTAL GAME. Are you kidding me??? You're just brushing that off as if it's nothing??

Got it. In year 2 the Thunder were widely expected to win that series, and he did not get them over the hump. As with the RS, it appears you'e more focused on stat padding from him rather than the results of what happens given he is a MAX PLAYER/MVP supposed player and leader of the team.

I like his rebounding. I do not like especially this season and last the WAY he needs to score in order to succeed when he is playing poorly. And I certainly do not like whatsoever his PLAYMAKING.

If you really think PG is like the Cavs LeBron and just simply doesn't have enough help around him to "win games" then there is absolutely no way we can continue this discussion. time and time again we've seen him fail and underdeliver in the playoffs, it was a total mistake to get him from day 1. I foolishly thought he could do it, but alas his weaknesses get totally exposed in games without Kawhi when he is needed to be counted on.

If you're choosing to just focus on his stats as if he's on some scrub team w the Thunder that should have bene WINNING those series there's nothing to say.

2015: first round exit
2016: first round exit sweep (4-0)
2017: first round exit (2-16 in elimination game)
2018: first round exit (4-1)
2019: total collapse against the Nuggets

Come on. See what's in front of you.

I'm saying what I said in my post, which is not what you are saying, soo....

Again, Paul George's level of poor performance last playoffs was an outlier for his career. There's simply no debate about it, it is easily seen in the data, in watching the games, in whatever you want to look at. So using last playoffs as the baseline of how he performs in the post-season all the time, "2-3 good games and 4-5 bad ones is just disingenuous".

Inconsistent first options easily become great second options or co-first options alongside a better player. Paul George's success or lack thereof as a team leader is far less relevant when he's not the best player on this current team. Last season did not allow us to see how he could perform in that role, because, again, last season's playoffs was an outlier for him. Paul George was also playing alongside Westbrook who is about as unreliable as they come in terms of efficient play (in the playoffs), at times he's all about just putting up numbers and hoping it works (and sometimes it does)

Has PG become a "great second option"??? Really? Maybe in his "MVP" season in OKC (before the playoffs) where Russ was more the leader, but he has gone from an inconsistent first option to an inconsistent second option making max money. Not good enough at all.

We'll find out in the playoffs how good of a second option he is. He has shown himself to be a great regular season second option, he's able to lead the team to wins without Kawhi, and the Clippers have been a top 3 seed two seasons in a row with second option Paul George.

Playoffs is up in the air, and again for those in the back, last season was an extreme outlier by any measure we can come up with.

That's veering away from the discussion though. The point still stands, Paul George is not tier 1 star consistent, but he's easily tier 2 star consistent and had been even in the first option role for every playoffs before last season.

If the Clippers had gotten OKC George consistency last season, they beat Dallas in 5 and don't lose to Denver. Now, one can argue whether that would have been enough to beat the Lakers, but that's a different argument since the Lakers were the best team, so it takes more than just your second star being consistent to beat them. If both teams stars are similarly consistent, then others things like supporting cast, matchups, coaching would be the determining factor.

I don't expect George to be as consistent as Kawhi, but in a 6 game series, I'd expect 4 above average to good/great games, 1 below average game, and it seems like he'll almost always have one stinker. In a 7 game series, I'd expect 4-5 above average to good games, 1-2 below average games, and 1 stinker. The problem is if we have the Dallas series where he had 3 stinkers, 1 below average/poor game and 2 good games. Again, that was an outlier for his career performance in the playoffs, even though he's a 2 tier star in consistency, that performance was non-star like consistency.

So again, we'll see...

[esqtvd]

I gave this team and organization hell in the off-season because I thought the wrong people got the blame.

This is key to figuring out why you did what you did.

This was for Doc and the "hell" you gave wasn't based on merit.

Not only did they suck but they quit. One of the most shameful and inexcusable chokes in NBA history. The rest is talk. Now let's turn the page.

[esqtvd]

IDK man, don't really buy this "every season si new" particularly when PG and Reggie (and to an extent Kawhi) are older and more injury prone than ever w no history to back it up. Reggie I fear is going to get exposed defensively in the playoffs, I'd much prefer TMann/Rondo/Bev as the rotation with either Kennard or Reggie put in for brief period unless they are hot.

But every season IS new. Every GAME is new. On any given night even Kennard is going to be better than Paul George.

Think about it. Except for Kawhi, EVERY Clipper has something to prove. As George Patton or John Lennon said [I don't remember which, maybe it was Mike Tyson], nothing succeeds as planned. Let's let the story unfold.

I dont think Rondo has much to prove either.

The issue is when we have a max guy who is not transforming the team in a significantly positive way. Like CP3 for the Suns, or AD for the Lakers. The other Clippers with something to prove aren't making enough money to justify the burden and responsibility that PG has.

True about Rondo: I missed him. But all the rest SHOULD play with a chip on their shoulder. Reggie is still finding himself. The stats say he quite adequately replaced Beverley in the starting 5 and now it's looking like he might replace Lou on the second unit when Bev gets back.

Reggie's amazing story of redemption might be just one such story on this year's team. Ibaka was disrespected by Toronto's 1-year offer. Add Batum, who was dumped [at full pay!] by the lowly Hornets. T-Mann was a MID-second-round pick. So was Patrick Beverley, who had to start his career overseas. Zubac was dumped on us by the Lakers for an undisclosed amount of trash [Mike Muscala lol]. Pat Pat is Mr. Ready. Boogie and Yogi were OUT OF THE LEAGUE.

Win or lose, Kawhi's reputation is safe but PG still does have Pandemic P on his back and frankly, despite ok numbers and many millions in the bank, Marcus has yet to make any impression on NBA history whatsoever. There's plenty to prove.

[Clemenza]

The problem seems to be from a few, not naming names here, is that the rest of us aren't ripping PG hard enough after a bad game(one stinker out of seven/eight games) like we really have to go in on him and his career and character on a 24/7/365 nonstop loop of hardcore unabashed unbridled criticism just so we can all have common ground and remain peaceful around here. Of course the bubble was a disaster and PG, Trez, Lou, etc. had some bad games but all BS aside alot of that was on Doc and him refusing to make adjustments offensively and defensively. We're all hoping for the best here. That's all we can do as we're just fans and not apart of the team or front office. Three to four players stay under the microscope but a pass is always given to the rest. It shouldn't be like that around here. Its a damn shame what this board is turning into

[NickP]

The problem seems to be from a few, not naming names here, is that the rest of us aren't ripping PG hard enough after a bad game(one stinker out of seven/eight games) like we really have to go in on him and his career and character on a 24/7/365 nonstop loop of hardcore unabashed unbridled criticism just so we can all have common ground and remain peaceful around here. Of course the bubble was a disaster and PG, Trez, Lou, etc. had some bad games but all BS aside alot of that was on Doc and him refusing to make adjustments offensively and defensively. We're all hoping for the best here. That's all we can do as we're just fans and not apart of the team or front office. Three to four players stay under the microscope but a pass is always given to the rest. It shouldn't be like that around here. Its a damn shame what this board is turning into

Exactly this.
Every damn game thread is a rinse and repeat PG bashing cycle because of one village idiot who draws everyone in including the mod. Go figure.

[RingColluder]

I'm saying what I said in my post, which is not what you are saying, soo....

Again, Paul George's level of poor performance last playoffs was an outlier for his career. There's simply no debate about it, it is easily seen in the data, in watching the games, in whatever you want to look at. So using last playoffs as the baseline of how he performs in the post-season all the time, "2-3 good games and 4-5 bad ones is just disingenuous".

Inconsistent first options easily become great second options or co-first options alongside a better player. Paul George's success or lack thereof as a team leader is far less relevant when he's not the best player on this current team. Last season did not allow us to see how he could perform in that role, because, again, last season's playoffs was an outlier for him. Paul George was also playing alongside Westbrook who is about as unreliable as they come in terms of efficient play, he's all about just putting up numbers and hoping it works.

Has PG become a "great second option"??? Really? Maybe in his "MVP" season in OKC (before the playoffs) where Russ was more the leader, but he has gone from an inconsistent first option to an inconsistent second option making max money. Not good enough at all.

We'll find out in the playoffs how good of a second option he is. He has shown himself to be a great regular season second option, he's able to lead the team to wins without Kawhi, and the Clippers have been a top 3 seed two seasons in a row with second option Paul George.

Playoffs is up in the air, and again for those in the back, last season was an extreme outlier by any measure we can come up with.

That's veering away from the discussion though. The point still stands, Paul George is not tier 1 star consistent, but he's easily tier 2 star consistent and had been even in the first option role for every playoffs before last season.

If the Clippers had gotten OKC George consistency last season, they beat Dallas in 5 and don't lose to Denver. Now, one can argue whether that would have been enough to beat the Lakers, but that's a different argument since the Lakers were the best team, so it takes more than just your second star being consistent to beat them. If both teams stars are similarly consistent, then others things like supporting cast, matchups, coaching would be the determining factor.

I don't expect George to be as consistent as Kawhi, but in a 6 game series, I'd expect 4 above average to good/great games, 1 below average game, and it seems like he'll almost always have one stinker. In a 7 game series, I'd expect 4-5 above average to good games, 1-2 below average games, and 1 stinker. The problem is if we have the Dallas series where he had 3 stinkers, 1 below average/poor game and 2 good games. Again, that was an outlier for his career performance in the playoffs, even though he's a 2 tier star in consistency, that performance was non-star like consistency.

So again, we'll see...

He's proven to be an INCONSISTENT second option in the regular season this year, we already saw last playoffs how he was not even close to a good second option, why are you acting like this is his first playoffs with the Clippers?? Last season was just an extreme outlier for PG?? What about all the other players?? And again, we just went over his record as a LEADER in the playoffs the last 6 years, it's been a total failure. 6 straight 1st round exits?? Come on man.


I'd say he's more like a #3, and probably a #2 on a decent team.

I agree w your OKC George comment. That's why it was so egregious he totally **** the best last year in the PRIME opportunity for us to win. Why do you continue to ignore in elimination games when it matters most Paul George has constantly **** the bed??


In a 6-7 game series, I expect 2-3 GREAT games from PG, 1-2 ok games, and 1 dud game. The problem is PG tends to not do that. We can count when this playoffs starts although I'm sure your definition of a "great" game is my version of an "ok" game wit his turnovers and bad iso possessions. Hopefully Im wrong.

[RingColluder]

The problem seems to be from a few, not naming names here, is that the rest of us aren't ripping PG hard enough after a bad game(one stinker out of seven/eight games) like we really have to go in on him and his career and character on a 24/7/365 nonstop loop of hardcore unabashed unbridled criticism just so we can all have common ground and remain peaceful around here. Of course the bubble was a disaster and PG, Trez, Lou, etc. had some bad games but all BS aside alot of that was on Doc and him refusing to make adjustments offensively and defensively. We're all hoping for the best here. That's all we can do as we're just fans and not apart of the team or front office. Three to four players stay under the microscope but a pass is always given to the rest. It shouldn't be like that around here. Its a damn shame what this board is turning into

Exactly this.
Every damn game thread is a rinse and repeat PG bashing cycle because of one village idiot who draws everyone in including the mod. Go figure.

I have about 10 names I can call you if the mods don't take action (again). This is like the 6th time you've made comments like this while others are having intelligent and logical discussions that you just decide to butt into with your boner for PG.

[RingColluder]

The problem seems to be from a few, not naming names here, is that the rest of us aren't ripping PG hard enough after a bad game(one stinker out of seven/eight games) like we really have to go in on him and his career and character on a 24/7/365 nonstop loop of hardcore unabashed unbridled criticism just so we can all have common ground and remain peaceful around here. Of course the bubble was a disaster and PG, Trez, Lou, etc. had some bad games but all BS aside alot of that was on Doc and him refusing to make adjustments offensively and defensively. We're all hoping for the best here. That's all we can do as we're just fans and not apart of the team or front office. Three to four players stay under the microscope but a pass is always given to the rest. It shouldn't be like that around here. Its a damn shame what this board is turning into

You're right, each player should be given equal praise and criticism depending on their performance no matter what their pay check says. Such great logic you have. Really we're missing so much from your posts.

[Quake Griffin]

I gave this team and organization hell in the off-season because I thought the wrong people got the blame.

This is key to figuring out why you did what you did.

This was for Doc and the "hell" you gave wasn't based on merit.

Not only did they suck but they quit. One of the most shameful and inexcusable chokes in NBA history. The rest is talk. Now let's turn the page.

Doc was horrid.

Now let's turn the page.

[esqtvd]

This is key to figuring out why you did what you did.

This was for Doc and the "hell" you gave wasn't based on merit.

Not only did they suck but they quit. One of the most shameful and inexcusable chokes in NBA history. The rest is talk. Now let's turn the page.

Doc was horrid.

Now let's turn the page.

Yeah, look how many shots Doc missed.

Quake--I was going to let you get the last word here with the Doc-blaming again and turn the page but we're looking at the same dilemma here in 2021. Where are we gonna get points?

Trezz came to the bubble late for personal reasons and was physically and psychologically unable to perform at the level that won him 6th Man of the Year just months before. This had a domino effect not just on Lou but on the rest of the team--and in the end, even All-Stars [superstars?] Kawhi and PG folded in the collapse.

The problem was not Lou and Trezz--it was our fatal dependence on them. When Trezz blew up, down came the house of cards. We are in the same situation this year. We may be the NBA's #1 offense, but when you need two points--or 10--where are you going to get them? We have no ready answer. Kawhi is not Kobe and PG is PG--and we have no 3rd scorer.

Right back where we were in The Bubble when it all went to hell.

You beat the Nets and Mavs not with defense but by exploiting their lack of it. The Lakers have the top defense in the league with the Jazz not far behind. You have to solve them on the offensive end and hope your defense holds. I appreciate defense and I appreciate "doing all the little things" but in 2021--especially with the Nets looming--it's about PUTTING THE BALL IN THE HOLE.

Doc is history but the question remains: Where are we gonna get points?? After punting the Denver game [as Kawhi eased himself back in], we have no idea and only 7 games left to find out. Floor's yours.

[Quake Griffin]

Not only did they suck but they quit. One of the most shameful and inexcusable chokes in NBA history. The rest is talk. Now let's turn the page.

Doc was horrid.

Now let's turn the page.

Yeah, look how many shots Doc missed.

Quake--I was going to let you get the last word here with the Doc-blaming again and turn the page but we're looking at the same dilemma here in 2021. Where are we gonna get points?

Trezz came to the bubble late for personal reasons and was physically and psychologically unable to perform at the level that won him 6th Man of the Year just months before. This had a domino effect not just on Lou but on the rest of the team--and in the end, even All-Stars [superstars?] Kawhi and PG folded in the collapse.

The problem was not Lou and Trezz--it was our fatal dependence on them. When Trezz blew up, down came the house of cards. We are in the same situation this year. We may be the NBA's #1 offense, but when you need two points--or 10--where are you going to get them? We have no ready answer. Kawhi is not Kobe and PG is PG--and we have no 3rd scorer.

Right back where we were in The Bubble when it all went to hell.

You beat the Nets and Mavs not with defense but by exploiting their lack of it. The Lakers have the top defense in the league with the Jazz not far behind. You have to solve them on the offensive end and hope your defense holds. I appreciate defense and I appreciate "doing all the little things" but in 2021--especially with the Nets looming--it's about PUTTING THE BALL IN THE HOLE.

Doc is history but the question remains: Where are we gonna get points?? After punting the Denver game [as Kawhi eased himself back in], we have no idea and only 7 games left to find out. Floor's yours.

You never ever criticize Doc. Then, when Kawhi balls out in Games 5 and 6 (particularly down the stretch of those games), you say nothing. When he finally throws up a stinker in Game 7, you cant even just provide criticism, you malign his character in a scathing fashion.

Doesn’t pass muster.

Our “problem” wasn’t a “problem” 4 games into that series. In fact, there’s an argument for the idea that we should have swept the Nuggets given how we just laid an egg in Game 2.

The melt down was on Doc and his garbage coaching and culture - not the ability to put the ball in the hole. Lue is afforded the ability that that may be his issue. Not Mr. I Blow 3-1 Leads.

[esqtvd]

Doc was horrid.

Now let's turn the page.

Yeah, look how many shots Doc missed.

Quake--I was going to let you get the last word here with the Doc-blaming again and turn the page but we're looking at the same dilemma here in 2021. Where are we gonna get points?

Trezz came to the bubble late for personal reasons and was physically and psychologically unable to perform at the level that won him 6th Man of the Year just months before. This had a domino effect not just on Lou but on the rest of the team--and in the end, even All-Stars [superstars?] Kawhi and PG folded in the collapse.

The problem was not Lou and Trezz--it was our fatal dependence on them. When Trezz blew up, down came the house of cards. We are in the same situation this year. We may be the NBA's #1 offense, but when you need two points--or 10--where are you going to get them? We have no ready answer. Kawhi is not Kobe and PG is PG--and we have no 3rd scorer.

Right back where we were in The Bubble when it all went to hell.

You beat the Nets and Mavs not with defense but by exploiting their lack of it. The Lakers have the top defense in the league with the Jazz not far behind. You have to solve them on the offensive end and hope your defense holds. I appreciate defense and I appreciate "doing all the little things" but in 2021--especially with the Nets looming--it's about PUTTING THE BALL IN THE HOLE.

Doc is history but the question remains: Where are we gonna get points?? After punting the Denver game [as Kawhi eased himself back in], we have no idea and only 7 games left to find out. Floor's yours.

You never ever criticize Doc. Then, when Kawhi balls out in Games 5 and 6 (particularly down the stretch of those games), you say nothing. When he finally throws up a stinker in Game 7, you cant even just provide criticism, you malign his character in a scathing fashion.

Doesn’t pass muster.

Our “problem” wasn’t a “problem” 4 games into that series. In fact, there’s an argument for the idea that we should have swept the Nuggets given how we just laid an egg in Game 2.

The melt down was on Doc and his garbage coaching and culture - not the ability to put the ball in the hole. Lue is afforded the ability that that may be his issue. Not Mr. I Blow 3-1 Leads.

Yeah, look how many shots Doc missed.

I've got my story--that Our Big Two sucked ass not only on the court when it counted but also OFF the court as bad leaders who even had their OWN PRIVATE DRESSING ROOM. The team lost because it was never a team. Their most passionate player was treated as just a slob. That wasn't Doc's "culture." That was Kawhi's.

And you have your story--which is the organization's story--we lost because the coach didn't make adjustments and he lost the team so they kicked Doc and Trezz, and to a lesser degree Shamet and J-Myke to the curb. They were blamed; they were axed.


FOR THE RECORD: I DO think Doc lost the team and had to be fired; I agreed with the move. You can't blame and fire your two big megastars, the rest of the MIA supporting cast, the whole front office who put together that mismatched roster and certainly not the hands-on owner who signed off on everything.

I admit I didn't see that coming, but finding a scapegoat was the only alternative to backing up the truck and losing Kawhi. You had no choice but to run it back and you couldn't run it back with the status quo. Ballmer had just just gone ALL IN--traded the Clippers' present [SGA and Doc's 2018-19 surprise playoff team] and future [our 1st rounders through the next decade and pick swaps in between].


In for a penny, in for a pound. In for a decade. This is Ballmer's baby. On that I think we can agree.


Well, Quake, the org added as good as could be hoped for--Ibaka and Batum and now Cousins and Yogi in the late-season dumpster dive. And as much abuse as Ring Collider takes for speaking the obvious too loudly and too often--this is STILL the same team, albeit less arrogant and hopefully less lazy. 6MOY Trezz is gone but Zu is still Zu. Lou's regular-season 18 ppg are gone but now we have Playoff Rondo's magic playmaking in its place.

So we're running it back with Kawhi and his PG, with upgrades---hopefully. Let's watch, shall we??

What happens now will also tell us a lot about what happened then. I'm a historian of sorts, if you ever look me up. Glaciers tell us more than volcanoes.

[Quake Griffin]

We'll see. Never been sipping any kind of Lue kool-aid either. I am hoping he has the recipe for us to at minimum make our first CF but I've never said he was the one with the recipe.

I did like our offseason though. If Ibaka ever makes it back (-_-), I think we have a chance to be formidable and accomplish that goal.