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Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers

Moderator: jbk1234

4 Questions

Poll ended at Fri Jun 4, 2021 12:02 am

Q1: Keep the GM
2
8%
Q1: Fire the GM
4
17%
Q2: Keep the coach
4
17%
Q2: Fire the coach
2
8%
Q3: Performed better than expected
1
4%
Q3: Performed as expected
5
21%
Q3: Performed worse than expected
1
4%
Q4: Rising Team
3
13%
Q4: Treadmill Team
1
4%
Q4: Waning Team
1
4%
 
Total votes: 24

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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#21 » by The_Hater » Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:05 pm

kobyz wrote:They need to draft Suggs, he's like James Harden with defense and better leadership, with his size will be great fit with Sexton in the backcourt and great pick and roll partner with Allen...


Do you have any idea how good Harden is? You’ve already got him pegged as a 35/10 guy on offense with superior defense?
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April 14th, 2019.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#22 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:11 am

The_Hater wrote:
Wadzup wrote:
Based on what I saw in the post season either one of Darius Garland or Collin Sexton straight up for Ben Simmons would be a overpay. I would offer Love in a 1 for 1 trade just for a change of scenery for both players.

If you are the Cavs, you do that without hesitation, but as much as Simmons' value is sunk right now, it's still way higher than Love straight up. Simmons isn't quite the sunk cost that Love is being that he is eight years younger.

Personally, I would bite the bullet and do No. 3 over either Sexton or Garland, only because both have shown they have plus-NBA ability. I think both Suggs and Green will get at least to that level, and both could be better than either Sexton/Garland, but there is some risk since they haven't proven it yet.

Plus, I think adding Simmons solves a lot of the issues the Garland/Sexton backcourt brings, mainly defensive liabilities. But running a lineup of:

1. Garland
2. Sexton
3. Simmons
4. Nance
5. Allen

looks pretty intriguing. Simmons, Nance and Allen are not defensive liabilities and Simmons has the versatility to guard pretty much whatever the toughest matchup the other team presents. Nance can space the floor along with Garland/Sexton, so it doesn't clog things up having two limited offensive players in the starting lineup. Okoro would come of the bench as the sixth man.

It's not a lineup that is challenging for a top 5 seed, but a couple more minor moves and they should be able to assemble a 8-9 man rotation that should at least be in the playoff conversation, which has to be the goal now in year 4 of the second post-LeBron teardown/rebuild.


Sexton for Simmons isn’t an overpay. Sexton isn’t exactly full of plus skills and has never been considered for the all star team or all NBA team.

The Cavs need to improve the team defense and ball movement badly and adding Simmons and subtracting Sexton would help do this. Plus a full season of Allen in the middle and then they draft their Sexton replacement at #3 instead of overpaying him as a free agent.

It almost makes too muck sense for me, although Sexton isn’t exactly a Darryle Morey type of player. He might not like this too much. Or he might prefer Garland.


Sexton or Garland for Simmons an overpay? I mean Simmons was disappointing but that's a little ridiculous. I know his contract isn't good so it might be hard to match salaries...maybe they could do it with Love or something, but they'd need to include a pick or two as well.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#23 » by Stillwater » Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:29 am

bwgood77 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Wadzup wrote:
Based on what I saw in the post season either one of Darius Garland or Collin Sexton straight up for Ben Simmons would be a overpay. I would offer Love in a 1 for 1 trade just for a change of scenery for both players.

If you are the Cavs, you do that without hesitation, but as much as Simmons' value is sunk right now, it's still way higher than Love straight up. Simmons isn't quite the sunk cost that Love is being that he is eight years younger.

Personally, I would bite the bullet and do No. 3 over either Sexton or Garland, only because both have shown they have plus-NBA ability. I think both Suggs and Green will get at least to that level, and both could be better than either Sexton/Garland, but there is some risk since they haven't proven it yet.

Plus, I think adding Simmons solves a lot of the issues the Garland/Sexton backcourt brings, mainly defensive liabilities. But running a lineup of:

1. Garland
2. Sexton
3. Simmons
4. Nance
5. Allen

looks pretty intriguing. Simmons, Nance and Allen are not defensive liabilities and Simmons has the versatility to guard pretty much whatever the toughest matchup the other team presents. Nance can space the floor along with Garland/Sexton, so it doesn't clog things up having two limited offensive players in the starting lineup. Okoro would come of the bench as the sixth man.

It's not a lineup that is challenging for a top 5 seed, but a couple more minor moves and they should be able to assemble a 8-9 man rotation that should at least be in the playoff conversation, which has to be the goal now in year 4 of the second post-LeBron teardown/rebuild.


Sexton for Simmons isn’t an overpay. Sexton isn’t exactly full of plus skills and has never been considered for the all star team or all NBA team.

The Cavs need to improve the team defense and ball movement badly and adding Simmons and subtracting Sexton would help do this. Plus a full season of Allen in the middle and then they draft their Sexton replacement at #3 instead of overpaying him as a free agent.

It almost makes too muck sense for me, although Sexton isn’t exactly a Darryle Morey type of player. He might not like this too much. Or he might prefer Garland.


Sexton or Garland for Simmons an overpay? I mean Simmons was disappointing but that's a little ridiculous. I know his contract isn't good so it might be hard to match salaries...maybe they could do it with Love or something, but they'd need to include a pick or two as well.

Cavs had little spacing when Love went down again so as it is no chance either guard is included if they go after Simmons(highly doubtful after his epic choke job in the playoffs with that contract) Maybe if for some reason Philly is fine with dumping him for an injury prone KLove and that is the best they can get for him... Otherwise Cavs interest ends right there imo. Simmons at this point might be a worst contract than Love
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#24 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:30 am

I'm not sure who moved this here or why, but just as a courtesy, it would've cool to inform the moderator. We already have a thread I would've merged this with.

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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#25 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:35 am

jbk1234 wrote:I'm not sure who moved this here or why, but just as a courtesy, it would've cool to inform the moderator. We already have a thread I would've merged this with.

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I did. I figured as these died down on the GB maybe people on their team forums would like to read unbiased thoughts from others and maybe add to the discussion but feel free to lock it or whatever.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#26 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:54 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm not sure who moved this here or why, but just as a courtesy, it would've cool to inform the moderator. We already have a thread I would've merged this with.


I did. I figured as these died down on the GB maybe people on their team forums would like to read unbiased thoughts from others and maybe add to the discussion but feel free to lock it or whatever.


That made me chuckle.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#27 » by Stillwater » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:41 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm not sure who moved this here or why, but just as a courtesy, it would've cool to inform the moderator. We already have a thread I would've merged this with.


I did. I figured as these died down on the GB maybe people on their team forums would like to read unbiased thoughts from others and maybe add to the discussion but feel free to lock it or whatever.


That made me chuckle.

Yeah I mean pretty much everyone is biased they just hide it more on the GB
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#28 » by bwgood77 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:49 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:I'm not sure who moved this here or why, but just as a courtesy, it would've cool to inform the moderator. We already have a thread I would've merged this with.


I did. I figured as these died down on the GB maybe people on their team forums would like to read unbiased thoughts from others and maybe add to the discussion but feel free to lock it or whatever.


That made me chuckle.


Well surely Cavs fans are more biased overall than non Cavs fans. It's not like there is a big debate or rival who are bashing players like the Trae vs Doncic discussions there.

I know Suns fans, for example are far more biased with a homerish view of the team. And while other fans don't watch our teams as much or have as much knowledge it can be interesting to read or simply take with a grain of salt.

But if it is deemed to not be a thread that interests anyone who may not have already seen it on the GB, it can always be locked by the local moderator.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#29 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:13 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I did. I figured as these died down on the GB maybe people on their team forums would like to read unbiased thoughts from others and maybe add to the discussion but feel free to lock it or whatever.


That made me chuckle.


Well surely Cavs fans are more biased overall than non Cavs fans. It's not like there is a big debate or rival who are bashing players like the Trae vs Doncic discussions there.

I know Suns fans, for example are far more biased with a homerish view of the team. And while other fans don't watch our teams as much or have as much knowledge it can be interesting to read or simply take with a grain of salt.

But if it is deemed to not be a thread that interests anyone who may not have already seen it on the GB, it can always be locked by the local moderator.


Just different biases ... but still biases.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#30 » by FluLikeSymptoms » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:00 pm

How do Cleveland fans rate Garland’s season/prospects? Is he a keeper? Can’t say I watched much of the Cavs, I was busy avoiding my own favourite team’s games. Numbers are mixed but I have no idea of the context. I ask because Zach Lowe said it was unlikely Cleveland would move him “after the season he had,” but that could go either way.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#31 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:15 pm

FluLikeSymptoms wrote:How do Cleveland fans rate Garland’s season/prospects? Is he a keeper? Can’t say I watched much of the Cavs, I was busy avoiding my own favourite team’s games. Numbers are mixed but I have no idea of the context. I ask because Zach Lowe said it was unlikely Cleveland would move him “after the season he had,” but that could go either way.
He's a keeper. He had a really good season for a 21 year old PG his second year in the NBA.

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Re: Post-Mortem: 2020-21 Cleveland Cavaliers 

Post#32 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:08 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
FluLikeSymptoms wrote:How do Cleveland fans rate Garland’s season/prospects? Is he a keeper? Can’t say I watched much of the Cavs, I was busy avoiding my own favourite team’s games. Numbers are mixed but I have no idea of the context. I ask because Zach Lowe said it was unlikely Cleveland would move him “after the season he had,” but that could go either way.
He's a keeper. He had a really good season for a 21 year old PG his second year in the NBA.


The organization is fully behind Garland and his development as a PG has been fine. Of course that doesn't mean they're prepared to offer him a max deal, but they have another year before they need to start worrying about that.

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