2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Frank Lee]

Cam Payne

Don’t get hung up on Paul’s career achievements…

I mean....I like Cam too but come on, Chris Paul was [*]slightly[*] better at the same age. I think we can agree on that.....?

I think you miss my point. Not anti CP… but giving him a chunky 3 yr deal could pinch us. Why not front load it ( his current deal) then he can/should sign for a much smaller amount yrly as Bridges and Ayton then get paid. If you are afraid of him walking, we’ll then it would be because he doesn’t want to be here. Then that’s fine too. Dude has already cashed in 100+ mill. Highly doubt he is all about the $ at this point.

[Blonde]

I thought early bird applies only for players who were under contract for 2 full seasons. I guess Cam qualifies because he signed with us at the end of last year? Pretty cool and great for us.

My ideal offseason:
>shop 29/Smith/Saric - probably not a lot of value there
>draft best (non center) prospect available if keeping 29
>CP3 opt out and extends for a reasonable 3 year deal
>Payne new contract around 3 years 24 million
>FA targets: Noel, Hart, Griffin, Jeff Green, Craig, Derozan (pipe dream), Olynyk, Otto Porter, Kaminsky
>extend Ayton
>open up discussions for Bridges extension, no pressure to lock it in now
>recognize that we have the ability to win a championship next year and those windows close fast, do not dismiss the possibility of trading Johnson, Crowder, or even Bridges for a player that can put us over the top. We’ll see which names shake out this summer but hopefully Booker is talking to people over on Team USA.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

Yeah, no way Sarver/Jones/Monty view a MLE guy, Crowder and Saric more than Bridges, so like I've said, MLE guy is likely only one year...and then we can trade Crowder and/or Saric before those contracts kick in if Sarver doesn't want a big bill.

We still have a lot of depth, especially if Smith contributes. So we sign a cheap big and a one year MLE guy...then we have a bench of the Cams or at least one Cam, Nader and/or Craig, Smith, a rookie this year, Saric (after next year), a cheap big this next year and then the emergency guys after that.

We will have a tax bill for one year, and it will not be nearly what he is saying. But I imagine we will make the most we have made in over a decade the next couple of years in ticket sales and concessions, so a tax bill one or two years will not be a big deal.

Sarver can sell more ownership stakes too for money since the team value probably went way up while maintaining a similar dollar share with a lower percentage of ownership.

1 or 2 years for an MLE guy, I think if you go into the 22-23 offseason with a bunch of expiring deals you can find ways to move off those guys, particularly if you feel like your window is closed/closing.

Lastly, I don't know when luxury tax calculations/payments are made. If you move some guys on like at the deadline, does that affect your cap number?

Yeah, you can move them during the season...GS did that. Anyway, we have over a year to think about it and pre plan...sign MLE to only one year, trade Saric and/or Crowder, etc. All these are way more probable than moving Bridges. Not sure why people think they'd rather have a MLE guy, Saric and Crowder for a year or two over Bridges long term.

trade Saric and/or Crowder, etc.

I know that this might not be the most popular idea, But how about packaging Saric and Crowder together in a trade to New Orleans for Bledsoe?
https://fanspo.com/nba/s/suns/trades/EwanxGgj3rozkZ/suns-pels-vet-swap

Now I only suggest this because his 18 million contract is only partially guaranteed for 3.9 million in 2022 ( IF waived before June 29th 2022) of next summer.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-orleans-pelicans/eric-bledsoe-6900/

That trade alone would save us 14 million (*Not counting for his 4 million partial guarantee). New Orleans does really want to move him badly too. And like it or not, He's still a reliable veteran guard that could be a nice defensive compliment alongside of Booker/ Payne for the short time he'd be here. And would also provide an insurance policy for Paul in the event of injury or for load management.

So that 14 million could go along way towards absorbing Bridges extension, along with any other potential roster adjustments perhaps?

[Slim Charless]

I thought early bird applies only for players who were under contract for 2 full seasons. I guess Cam qualifies because he signed with us at the end of last year? Pretty cool and great for us.

My ideal offseason:
>shop 29/Smith/Saric - probably not a lot of value there
>draft best (non center) prospect available if keeping 29
>CP3 opt out and extends for a reasonable 3 year deal
>Payne new contract around 3 years 24 million
>FA targets: Noel, Hart, Griffin, Jeff Green, Craig, Derozan (pipe dream), Olynyk, Otto Porter, Kaminsky
>extend Ayton
>open up discussions for Bridges extension, no pressure to lock it in now
>recognize that we have the ability to win a championship next year and those windows close fast, do not dismiss the possibility of trading Johnson, Crowder, or even Bridges for a player that can put us over the top. We’ll see which names shake out this summer but hopefully Booker is talking to people over on Team USA.

Pretty similar to what I want actually. I'd add in going after d12, Batum and Thiess for FA pickups if possible.

I work with a ton of LAL and Celtics fans and have been trolling all of them saying that Booker is in Tatum's ear right now in Tokyo, planning his move to Phoenix in 3 seasons lol. Wishful thinking, but still. I'm like "bro they're having saki bombs and working it out, right at this moment in time."

[Ghost of Kleine]

viewtopic.php?p=92670623#p92670623
In the trade thread, Speculation regarding teams willing to take on Sarics' contract. There are definitely some legitimately interested teams / trade partners. Definitely also some decent contract swapping ideas. One of my favorites is Saric for Hill ( Phoenix/ Philly).

But I'd also inquire about Saric/ Carter/ 29th pick for Joseph / 42nd pick.
https://fanspo.com/nba/s/suns/trades/6zni3-tKYZtb1J/saric-carter-for-cory-joseph

However, IF were willing to move on from Crowder together with Saric, Then we could cut up to 14 million clean from our salary by trading for Bledsoe,
https://fanspo.com/nba/s/suns/trades/EwanxGgj3rozkZ/suns-pels-vet-swap

Whose 18 million contract is only partially guaranteed for 3.9 million if waived before 6/ 29/ 2022. Bledsoe would give us another reliable veteran ball-handler and could provide insurance against injury for Paul as well as a competent defensive compliment alongside of Payne offensively or alongside of Booker as well. And he might have a better attitude this time around, As winning and contending would cure a lot of issues.

[Slim Charless]

Cam Payne

Don’t get hung up on Paul’s career achievements…

I mean....I like Cam too but come on, Chris Paul was [*]slightly[*] better at the same age. I think we can agree on that.....?

I think you miss my point. Not anti CP… but giving him a chunky 3 yr deal could pinch us. Why not front load it ( his current deal) then he can/should sign for a much smaller amount yrly as Bridges and Ayton then get paid. If you are afraid of him walking, we’ll then it would be because he doesn’t want to be here. Then that’s fine too. Dude has already cashed in 100+ mill. Highly doubt he is all about the $ at this point.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a front loaded deal or a declining one when they hash out the details of Paul's final contract. If it's gonna be the 100M we expect then maybe a 40>30>30 or something similar.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2021/7/23/22590360/phoenix-suns-salary-cap-ahead-of-2021-nba-free-agency-trades-draft

A lot of interesting scenarios in this editorial.
Check out the salary cap table and projected scenarios.

[lilfishi22]

Front loaded makes a lot more sense for CP3

[Mr Puddles]

Am I wrong to think that a guy like Jonathan Isaac would be worth pursuing in a trade? He's a huge injury risk ofcourse, but he's also a potential DPOY player with a respectable three point stroke at the power forward position. I'm wondering if a package of Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder, #29 and a future first draft pick would be enough to entice Orlando.

Bridges, Ayton + Isaac would be suffocating defensively.

[Saberestar]

Am I wrong to think that a guy like Jonathan Isaac would be worth pursuing in a trade? He's a huge injury risk ofcourse, but he's also a potential DPOY player with a respectable three point stroke at the power forward position. I'm wondering if a package of Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder, #29 and a future first draft pick would be enough to entice Orlando.

Bridges, Ayton + Isaac would be suffocating defensively.

I would not do it.

We would lose depth and Isaac is not a sure thing.

I think we can not be obsessed about finding our Anti-Anteto. He is unique, there is not other player in the league like him and he plays in the East.

[BobbieL]

I kind of hope Paul opts in and signs a little extension - say 2/45 so that makes it truly a 3/90 but with the lux tax - better I think for more dollars this year.

As for the rest of the team - the Suns will have options. I think Cam Payne will be back as I think his game will continue to improve and really give a solid three guard rotation.

Craig on the BAE - hmm - that might not be a given. I guess depends on the market.

[starbosa10]

This cp3 situation would be easier to handle if we Haliburton lol hope Stix does something next year

[Ghost of Kleine]

A good introspection for Nerlens Noel. If we could get him for around 5-6 million to be our backup center, That would be awesome. He also has put up his best numbers playing with Paul, And accepts his role as a defensive specialist.

Watch on YouTube

If not, Then I'd still seriously consider Dwight Howard or Hassan Whiteside. I know that Whiteside has some ego issues and doesn't mesh really well with our established culture, But he's still absolutely an elite shotblocker and rebounder!! Two areas that we critically struggled with in the finals. I also believe that between Paul, Crowder and Monty and even Craig, etc. We have a stable enough veteran presence to keep him focused. Most importantly, He'd be seen as a reclamation project, And as such could come cheap as a backup center option.

So currently I would prioritize our backup center options as:

1- Nerlens Noel.
2- Dwight Howard.
3- Hassan Whiteside.

[darealjuice]

I'm surprised by how many Suns fans would be open with parting ways with CP3 this offseason. He was our best player in the playoffs despite freak stinger and dealing with Covid. He's stayed pretty damn healthy for 2 seasons now and clearly still has game. He didn't play as well against Jrue, but he's one of the best defenders in the league for a reason. If it happens, it happens, but I don't think the grass is greener on the other side based on the options that appear to be available.

[bwgood77]

Am I the only one that sees Paul as the one that’s mucking up our future ? Enigs is right. Go ahead and pay him his contract price this year… But from then out, he’s yr to yr at the MLE. It helps put a better team around him… And if he doesn’t like that… we move in the new younger CP.

I’m very leery of last legging vets, especially expensive ones.

No, I have felt that way since we traded for him and wished we had addressed PG of the future. However, I don't see a better alternative. I hope he opts in and I would also prefer that.

I wouldn't want him to walk though if we wouldn't give him more than 1 year and NY was giving him 3/90. I've watched this team be bad enough that I would prefer to pay him a year extra when he was declining to not having him at all.

Don't forget, before that last game Payne was horrible in the finals. Shooting 40% and 25% the first 5 games. A 44% TS%.

Payne can get this team to the playoffs (I think) but we would be a low seed barring a bunch of injuries to other teams...but if he got hurt we've seen how good we are without a PG. Rubio couldn't get us to the playoffs. Payne might be better....but I am not sure I'd go that far.

The LA teams, GS, Utah, Denver, Dallas and possibly Portland would probably all be better than us without Paul. And maybe Memphis...they were missing JJJ all year and Ja and others for a lot of it and still go the 8 seed.

Ultimately, I probably offer him a $20 year 1 year extension for him to opt in...maybe $25...unless he would opt in without it. But if he was going to sign with the Knicks unless we gave him 3 years I'd rather go that route. I'm sure we will have a plan in place after that...and even a severely declining CP3 is better than most anyone. He was 4th in MVP and had his best season in like 5 years and shot the hell out of the ball in the finals while averaging over 8 assists per game against an extremely tough defense.

Without him we would have been swept in the finals no question. Ayton played well but Book shot 38% and 12.5% from 3. Ayton had a big game with 22/19. He was solid in game 2 as well...held us in there until Book got hot in the 2nd half. In the 3rd it was tough because Book shot 21%. He was poor in game 4 though. Keyed our comeback in game 5 and kept us in there in game 6. Can't really let him go just yet.

CP3 at 35 got us to the finals. Nash at 35 lost in the WCF. Afterward, Nash put in two more quality seasons for the Suns before he was traded to the Lakers. Get Paul to opt-in and offer him 27M for year two and 25M for year 3 which would be a team option with some guaranteed money ($7M). That's a 100M contract of which $80M is guaranteed. The worst case is he becomes a super bench sub ala Melo, Derrick Rose, Milsap, Griffin, etc.

Yeah, that's what I've said often. That's they way I'd d it if they are going for around a 3/100 deal..opt in with declining extension.

While I was worried a lot that he would decline in his 2nd year (next year) and maybe deal with injuries this year given his history of injuries and age, he was a lot more healthy than I expected (except unfortunately got a weird shoulder/arm injury and broken hand ligaments in the playoffs along with COVID) but I think since he has gone Vegan and really gotten healthy with his diet much like Nash did, his body has a lot better chance of holding out.

Of course anyone could have a freak injury at any time as we've seen across the league, so if he has one it's likely not due to age or having played too much.

So given that he held up so well and played his best season in years, I don't have a big issue with paying him. I am a little worried about a third year and possibly a 2nd. I honestly don't think we'd find a better option.

My bigger issue is not having taken Haliburton. It may be hard to find a decent guy at 29 and then we likely don't have a pick next year.

Nash was actually a bit older..a few months...he did go down to 75 games in 2010-11 and then 62 in 2011-12 and then 50 his first year with the Lakers and then 15.

It is interesting to think how much we got for a 38 year old Nash.

[sunsbg]

I'm surprised by how many Suns fans would be open with parting ways with CP3 this offseason. He was our best player in the playoffs despite freak stinger and dealing with Covid. He's stayed pretty damn healthy for 2 seasons now and clearly still has game. He didn't play as well against Jrue, but he's one of the best defenders in the league for a reason. If it happens, it happens, but I don't think the grass is greener on the other side based on the options that appear to be available.

Suns can' t find a better option. Only if he would take 25M rather than 35M and Jones signs another FA for rest 10M we would have a better shot in the title.

[Slim Charless]

A good introspection for Nerlens Noel. If we could get him for around 5-6 million to be our backup center, That would be awesome. He also has put up his best numbers playing with Paul, And accepts his role as a defensive specialist.

Watch on YouTube

If not, Then I'd still seriously consider Dwight Howard or Hassan Whiteside. I know that Whiteside has some ego issues and doesn't mesh really well with our established culture, But he's still absolutely an elite shotblocker and rebounder!! Two areas that we critically struggled with in the finals. I also believe that between Paul, Crowder and Monty and even Craig, etc. We have a stable enough veteran presence to keep him focused. Most importantly, He'd be seen as a reclamation project, And as such could come cheap as a backup center option.

So currently I would prioritize our backup center options as:

1- Nerlens Noel.
2- Dwight Howard.
3- Hassan Whiteside.

I agree with you GoK. I'd love Noel too as I wanted us to draft him way back in his class, but instead we got Len

He'd be great and is a professional player who wouldn't cause any waves while adding positives to what we need.

Only problem is I think that the Knicks will resign him as they have like 60M available in cap room. They need a guy like that too. I also think NYK are dark horses for Beal and Dame so they really wanna keep their vets to help those dudes if they got one. That said, Id love to add Noel on this team.

Think D12, Thiess, Javale McGee and even Whiteside are legit possibilities. Though I wouldn't be as happy about Whiteside as I would the other options.

[bwgood77]

Cam Payne

Don’t get hung up on Paul’s career achievements…

I mean....I like Cam too but come on, Chris Paul was [*]slightly[*] better at the same age. I think we can agree on that.....?

I think you miss my point. Not anti CP… but giving him a chunky 3 yr deal could pinch us. Why not front load it ( his current deal) then he can/should sign for a much smaller amount yrly as Bridges and Ayton then get paid. If you are afraid of him walking, we’ll then it would be because he doesn’t want to be here. Then that’s fine too. Dude has already cashed in 100+ mill. Highly doubt he is all about the $ at this point.

The only way to front load it is have him opt in with extension. Ideally it would be a total of 3/$90 (or less obviously)...but the second $46 could be declining like around $24/$22...or better yet, if he'd do it, a one year extension for $26 or something for a total of 3/70. He could potentially get one more contract after that somewhere if we didn't want to give him another one year deal then...maybe 2 more years somewhere or more.

[bwgood77]

I thought early bird applies only for players who were under contract for 2 full seasons. I guess Cam qualifies because he signed with us at the end of last year? Pretty cool and great for us.

My ideal offseason:
>shop 29/Smith/Saric - probably not a lot of value there
>draft best (non center) prospect available if keeping 29
>CP3 opt out and extends for a reasonable 3 year deal
>Payne new contract around 3 years 24 million
>FA targets: Noel, Hart, Griffin, Jeff Green, Craig, Derozan (pipe dream), Olynyk, Otto Porter, Kaminsky
>extend Ayton
>open up discussions for Bridges extension, no pressure to lock it in now
>recognize that we have the ability to win a championship next year and those windows close fast, do not dismiss the possibility of trading Johnson, Crowder, or even Bridges for a player that can put us over the top. We’ll see which names shake out this summer but hopefully Booker is talking to people over on Team USA.

I agree with all that, though I'd rather keep 29 and Smith, not only for two potential key contributors while I feel our depth could be ok. FA targets in order of preference...hopefully 1 year deal with MLE before extensions/new contracts kick in..Noel/Olynyk/DeRozan/Porter if a workout/physical looks good...He would be better than Craig/Nader if he gets even close to previous form.

I think we can agree with Bridges...and think he would rather lock in for a little less for future security and not contract hanging over head. David Nash things 4/$90/$100...that seems like a bit much. I think 4/$80 would be good, but maybe would do up to 4/$90. But ultimately not up to me..if Sarver is willing to pony up more..fine. But I don't think he should reasonably expect more than a certain amount...we could phrase it as "we will be tight...look at OG....look at Porter...he got a lot but then got traded because cash got too tight. $20 a year (more than OK is fair). No one else can offer more and there is a chance for injury next year.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I'm surprised by how many Suns fans would be open with parting ways with CP3 this offseason. He was our best player in the playoffs despite freak stinger and dealing with Covid. He's stayed pretty damn healthy for 2 seasons now and clearly still has game. He didn't play as well against Jrue, but he's one of the best defenders in the league for a reason. If it happens, it happens, but I don't think the grass is greener on the other side based on the options that appear to be available.

I'm definitely in the keep him camp personally. But for the right price that doesn't severely hamstring us once we extend Ayton and Bridges. I'm thinking 90/3 with a 3rd yr team option ( partial guarantee for 15 million) ? Would be best and still allow us to upgrade the roster a bit and continue our contention with Paul during his tenure here! But if he does intend to move on, Then I'd hope that he does us a solid and gets us a nice return in a sign 'n' trade. Ideally though, I'd hope for him to finish his career here with us, And maybe move into coaching as Monty's assistant, or into a front office role to further promote our franchise alongside Jones.