Summer League Thread Part 2: Aug 11 GS @8pm TSN 4

[Tor_Raps]

What is the value of a Draymond who can shoot?

I hate Draymond more than most but you cannot take his playmaking/IQ away from him when playing with talented players. He clearly raises the level of everyone around him.

Now I can agree that he gets exposed when not playing with talented players as his game is meant to feed off others and vice versa.

I see the Draymond similarity with Barnes but I think he has way more upside. He's bigger than Draymond (hand size, height), he's longer as well, I think Draymond is his short term floor. This kid could really be special even if he just develops a decent offensive game.

Top 10 player in the NBA.

[HumbleRen]

Rewatched the game and these are my take aways

Negatives

- Lack of burst in the half court.
- very limited lateral quickness, (shouldn’t guard PG’s in the actual NBA)
- Pretty raw offensive game, high handles so he won’t be a primary playmaker any time soon in the NBA

Positives

- Great feel for the game
- Can impact the game without having a great shooting performance
- Elite in transition
- An amazing connector, will thrive as the 2nd playmaker
- Willingness to shoot and not settle
- Can anchor a defence with his leadership and constant chattering
- Superstar intangibles

[johanliebert]

Well draymond not an elite playmaker.

Let’s not compare barnes to scrubs

huh ? he’s been the best playmaker on one of the best dynasties of all time.

I hate Draymond more than most but you cannot take his playmaking/IQ away from him when playing with talented players. He clearly raises the level of everyone around him.

Now I can agree that he gets exposed when not playing with talented players as his game is meant to feed off others and vice versa.

I just don’t see him as an elite playmaker. He’s a good floor general and can run an offence but he doesn’t create for others.

[WetLikeWater]

Barnes has outplayed Mobley and Green so far

Let’s at least see full 4 qtr? Barnes was bad after 1st

Barnes 1st half performance was better than Mobley and Green. Green has looked good but aside from scoring, he’s done nothing else

Barnes overall impact is much greater

Let’s see what happens in the 2nd half

Cmoon man don't put green down! The kid is fkn amazing!!! Would love to have him on the team!

[garbagnani]

Rewatched the game and these are my take aways

Negatives

- Lack of burst in the half court.
- very limited lateral quickness, (shouldn’t guard PG’s in the actual NBA)
- Pretty raw offensive game, high handles so he won’t be a primary playmaker any time soon in the NBA

Positives

- Great feel for the game
- Can impact the game without having a great shooting performance
- Elite in transition
- An amazing connector, will thrive as the 2nd playmaker
- Willingness to shoot and not settle
- Can anchor a defence with his leadership and constant chattering
- Superstar intangibles

Wasn’t his lateral speed drill time one of the best in entire combine?

[Dalek]

Rewatched the game and these are my take aways

Negatives

- Lack of burst in the half court.
- very limited lateral quickness, (shouldn’t guard PG’s in the actual NBA)
- Pretty raw offensive game, high handles so he won’t be a primary playmaker any time soon in the NBA

Positives

- Great feel for the game
- Can impact the game without having a great shooting performance
- Elite in transition
- An amazing connector, will thrive as the 2nd playmaker
- Willingness to shoot and not settle
- Can anchor a defence with his leadership and constant chattering
- Superstar intangibles

I think it is a fair assessment and consistent with scouting observations. I don't think we thought of Barnes as an immediate starter, but he is already a high floor role player with all-star upside.

One draft writer I really like, Max Feldman has a model that looks at different prospect types: Swing, Hybrid, and Stability. He classed Toronto as ideal for a Hybrid prospect which Barnes happens to be:

At maximum, 10 prospects of the 50 listed are classified as a hybrid , where they bring forward a safe floor that can translate quickly, but their youth and tools provide strong upside.

Teams opting for a HYBRID selection may fall in the following categories.

Teams in a gloomy area – not necessarily competing but their high level players are near or in their peak, making it difficult to enter a rebuild.

https://frontofficegurus.com/the-fog-aggregate-model/

That situation describes Toronto well and Barnes fits because at worst he defends well, moves the ball as a connective wing/forward, and crashes the glass. That can all work in year one and he is such a team guy I don't think it is a worry about underutilizing him.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Rewatched the game and these are my take aways

Negatives

- Lack of burst in the half court.
- very limited lateral quickness, (shouldn’t guard PG’s in the actual NBA)
- Pretty raw offensive game, high handles so he won’t be a primary playmaker any time soon in the NBA

Positives

- Great feel for the game
- Can impact the game without having a great shooting performance
- Elite in transition
- An amazing connector, will thrive as the 2nd playmaker
- Willingness to shoot and not settle
- Can anchor a defence with his leadership and constant chattering
- Superstar intangibles

Wasn’t his lateral speed drill time one of the best in entire combine?

He's Kawhi Leonard's size, hence why he moves like that. He's highly mobile for a guy that's pushing his weight.

They could work on his first step though, it can always get better.

[HumbleRen]

Rewatched the game and these are my take aways

Negatives

- Lack of burst in the half court.
- very limited lateral quickness, (shouldn’t guard PG’s in the actual NBA)
- Pretty raw offensive game, high handles so he won’t be a primary playmaker any time soon in the NBA

Positives

- Great feel for the game
- Can impact the game without having a great shooting performance
- Elite in transition
- An amazing connector, will thrive as the 2nd playmaker
- Willingness to shoot and not settle
- Can anchor a defence with his leadership and constant chattering
- Superstar intangibles

Wasn’t his lateral speed drill time one of the best in entire combine?

I think he’s very good at stationary drills when it comes to athleticism but he lacks the fast twitch muscles to apply his burst in one quick step in an actual game.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Rewatched the game and these are my take aways

Negatives

- Lack of burst in the half court.
- very limited lateral quickness, (shouldn’t guard PG’s in the actual NBA)
- Pretty raw offensive game, high handles so he won’t be a primary playmaker any time soon in the NBA

Positives

- Great feel for the game
- Can impact the game without having a great shooting performance
- Elite in transition
- An amazing connector, will thrive as the 2nd playmaker
- Willingness to shoot and not settle
- Can anchor a defence with his leadership and constant chattering
- Superstar intangibles

Wasn’t his lateral speed drill time one of the best in entire combine?

the shuttle run ? he had elite speed when it came to lateral quickness apparently

[HumbleRen]

Rewatched the game and these are my take aways

Negatives

- Lack of burst in the half court.
- very limited lateral quickness, (shouldn’t guard PG’s in the actual NBA)
- Pretty raw offensive game, high handles so he won’t be a primary playmaker any time soon in the NBA

Positives

- Great feel for the game
- Can impact the game without having a great shooting performance
- Elite in transition
- An amazing connector, will thrive as the 2nd playmaker
- Willingness to shoot and not settle
- Can anchor a defence with his leadership and constant chattering
- Superstar intangibles

I think it is a fair assessment and consistent with scouting observations. I don't think we thought of Barnes as an immediate starter, but he is already a high floor role player with all-star upside.

One draft writer I really like, Max Feldman has a model that looks at different prospect types: Swing, Hybrid, and Stability. He classed Toronto as ideal for a Hybrid prospect which Barnes happens to be:

At maximum, 10 prospects of the 50 listed are classified as a hybrid , where they bring forward a safe floor that can translate quickly, but their youth and tools provide strong upside.

Teams opting for a HYBRID selection may fall in the following categories.

Teams in a gloomy area – not necessarily competing but their high level players are near or in their peak, making it difficult to enter a rebuild.

https://frontofficegurus.com/the-fog-aggregate-model/

That situation describes Toronto well and Barnes fits because at worst he defends well, moves the ball as a connective wing/forward, and crashes the glass. That can all work in year one and he is such a team guy I don't think it is a worry about underutilizing him.

Great read, cheers for the link. Makes a lot of sense that we would go for a hybrid method.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

It really comes down to can you find a 6'10" guy that can stay in front of him, while not getting bullied.

Let's hope Simmons goes West.

[HolyMage110]

Barnes looked really slow in the half court and with his dribble penetration.
I'm hoping his handle develops to improve in those areas

[ItsDanger]

Some of these criticisms, I just don't see it. His real weakness to me is his off the dribble moves. That's going to take quite a while to improve. In the meantime, if he can be 30-35% in catch and shoot 3 pt shots that should be fine for us in year 1. His BBIQ is off the charts though so other guys need to keep up as I assume he will play mostly with the bench at least for the 1st half.

[Courtside]

Green will always and can always get his shot off. size won't matter when he has elite separation on the move. 6'6" isn't that small for an elite scorer and defending other guards. prototypical shooting guard size.

what will separate him is mental makeup and defense as a lead guy and some of those are problems today as you listed. I don't think his size is going to be a problem though.

he's not really 6'6" though. he's not even 6'6" in shoes. likely closer to 6'4" without shoes. with a 6'7" wingspan. and thin.

At the age of 16, three summers ago, Green measured 6 foot 4 without shoes, and 6 foot 5 in shoes. I think he has probably grown an inch since that time, so 6 foot 6 in shoes is most likely. However, he is still 180 pounds, and needs to put on extra weight to deal with the bigger shooting guards/small forwards he will be matching up with.

Why are you trying to use 3 year old high school measurements to guess what his height is now when there was literally a draft combine a couple of months back that measured every prospect with the same "official" standards? Who knows how that high school measurement was done, accurate it was, or whether they rounded up to make him look better as a prospect?

[ruckus]

Maybe its the hair but I always think of this guy when they show Cade:

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Barnes gives a lot of what Lowry gave the Raps

[Senor Waffles]

Maybe its the hair but I always think of this guy when they show Cade:

Knew he reminded me of someone! I got some YouTube videos to watch

(That's Eric Andre if you're wondering)

[Dalek]

Maybe its the hair but I always think of this guy when they show Cade:

Knew he reminded me of someone! I got some YouTube videos to watch

(That's Eric Andre if you're wondering)

The Eric Andre with Blake Griffin episode was the best-worst thing ever.

[StopitLeo]

Rewatched the game and these are my take aways

Negatives

- Lack of burst in the half court.
- very limited lateral quickness, (shouldn’t guard PG’s in the actual NBA)
- Pretty raw offensive game, high handles so he won’t be a primary playmaker any time soon in the NBA

Positives

- Great feel for the game
- Can impact the game without having a great shooting performance
- Elite in transition
- An amazing connector, will thrive as the 2nd playmaker
- Willingness to shoot and not settle
- Can anchor a defence with his leadership and constant chattering
- Superstar intangibles

Wasn’t his lateral speed drill time one of the best in entire combine?

the shuttle run ? he had elite speed when it came to lateral quickness apparently

Barnes was 2nd in the shuttle run at 2.99 seconds - the fastest was 2.98.

He was 7th in lane agility at 10.88 seconds - the fastest was 10.45 seconds.

[Dalek]

Read on Twitter

Quick observations:
FVV is full-on Dad mode based on his fit. I fully expect him to verbally share his disappointment in prospects who "should know better by now."

Pascal looking less like Spice P and more like Spicy Paisley. Also, I see his smart Red Bull on camera promo. I doubt he needs a Red Bull to take in a casual summer league game, but glad for the product placement op.

It was cool to see the gang support the team.