Masai: We have a Young Team and there will be Growing Pains

[JShuttlesworth]

Think raps will be somewhere between 6-8th seed this year.

I only see 5 teams definitely being 100% better than us: Nets, Bucks, Miami, 76ers and Boston.

Bulls, Pacers, and Knicks don't scare me.

Hawks are better than us too imo.

[vulture]

The Celtics have a superstar caliber player. Their two best are better than anyone on our team. Think they’re more of a build issue than talent one.

Knicks I would agree with but they do have Barrett who could very well make a huge leap. His talent is more than anyone on the team.

Bulls stink yes though they are better. Dunno if it’s that much better but in the hunt for sure.

Pacers are in our category but I think more talent than us. Sabonis, Brogdon, Levert, Turner, Warren (if healthy), is a team that probably has more talent than us.

Hornets are a young team with a budding star in Lamelo.

We were also fourth with Kyle and Norm which for some reason has been valued very little.

Another pick would do this team well but again it will come to fruition this season when no TB excuses exist.

this is super negative, but I'm not surprised it's coming from you. come one man RJ Barrett is not better than Siakam, OG or Fred.
I do hope we get another lottery pick, but this team is too well coached and organized to tank again.

I didn’t say he’s better - I said they have a player capable of taking a leap who has the talent to surpass everyone on the team.

His age and talent level is scary considering he’s already shooting 40% from distance. I did also say we’re probably in their realm which is a team not going to do anything.

No matter how good coaching you have, if you’re not good, you’re not good.

RGM doing a top 25 players post on the main page and Siakam and Fred not in the picture. Raptors are somehow some up and coming team without a top 30 player?

Let's wait to see if RJ can shoot off the dribble first rather than all the assisted catch and shoot he got last year before saying he is going to take some big leap.

If people on realgm don't think that Siakam and fred are top 30 players in this league then they shouldn't be watching basketball.

[Saul Goodman]

We lost Kawhi, Gasol, Green, Ibaka, Powell and Lowry for a grand total of Gary Trent Jr. and Precious Achuiwa. I guess we haven't lost any picks, but we haven't gained any significant ones either.

Comments like these drive me crazy.

First off, we won a title because of those players. So it's Gary Trent, Achuiwa and a TITLE.

Secondly,

Kawhi got us that title. Getting anything for him would have meant not winning.
Danny Green was pretty toast near the end of the playoffs. And we had OG and Norm to fill his role for the next year. Didn't lose out on much.
We were still contenders the next year and Gasol and Ibaka were big reasons for it. Trading them wouldn't have made sense.
Taking a shot on Giannis turned out bad, but would we want Ibaka now? With his surgery?

So Norm and Lowry for Trent and Achuiwa. Trent is 5 years younger than Norm, so ... good. I would have loved more for Lowry, but it clearly wasn't in the cards. He's criminally underrated and was making 30 million and asking for 20-30 million extension. Made it hard to deal him.

PREACH. The entire team could have left in free agency and became the 1999 Bulls and it would still be a gigantic win because we won a TIIIIITLE.

[GM89]

Hawks are better than us too imo.

Maybe, I watched them in the playoffs and they basically needed 35+ a night from Trae just to have a chance. Nurse is great at devising defensive schemes for these one man show type of teams.

They shouldn't have gotten passed Philly but their epic meltdown is a whole other topic.

[canada_dry]

I'm just curious - how many people commenting on here actually listened to the CBC podcast where Masai made this comment?

It seems as though people are making a lot of inferences about what he might have meant from this one quote, but much of that is stuff that didn't come through for me at all based upon the full context of the conversation.

Absolutely factual. It has nothing to do with tanking. Or trying to be bad.

It also goes to ignore what bobby said straight up about trying to compete while building around our core 3 of pascal fvv and og, while maybe eventually being opportunistic in the trade market. His literal words.

But ok lets make a big deal out of a sentence masai said. Jokers.

What masai said is it wont be a great team yet. But they damn sure arent looking to be a bad team either.

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[canada_dry]

My humble suggestion is that:

those posters who are optimistic that this team can make the playoffs will revise their thinking and be happy to angle for the lottery if midway through the season it becomes apparent that this team is really not as good as they thought and that the young guys need another year to be ready to make that leap

and

those posters who believe this team has little to no chance to make the playoffs and who are convinced that tanking is the best approach to this season will revise their thinking and be happy to be doing well should the team actually prove to be better than they thought and our young guys take big steps towards success

any chance y'all can do that instead of us having a damn war all season? let's see what happens and hope for the best, whether it is a high lottery pick or a playoff spot.

I personally already am in the first group. Im not expecting the team to be great, but they might be a little better than expected. Anything from 35-45 wouldn't surprise me. I wouldn't mind a pivot to "tanking" post all star break if the team just doesn't have it. Thats a logical move , same way it was last year.

What i, and most, have issues with is the belief that we should enter the season trying to be bad. Thats just bad form and absolutely goes against what the front office philosophy is. But that side will take any out of context sentence to try and convince themselves that thats what the front office will do , while ignoring full statements by the gm literall saying otherwise.

If we're 20-30 50 games in, bring on the pivot. Absolutely no problem with that.

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[canada_dry]

By ignoring Duncan, Wade, Lebron…

Thats y'all issue about his thread and mischaracterizing it like u do a lot of things. Thats between u guys. What he put on this thread here did a fine job of illustrating where the other side falls. Ur guy changed the topic to try n discredit him as if he doesn't have any say about the anti tank perspective...but again he did a fine job of telling u what it was.

So lets go from there rather than changing the topic and trying to poo poo his "right" to talk from the other side, eh?

Its ur boy that absolutely mischaracterized the anti tank viewpoint, as he usually does, while also exposing himself in the process as a day 1 tanker for this coming season.

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No he literally was untruthful.

The irony of mischaracterization when that’s exactly what you’re doing.

He said no player with the top pick one a title in the last twenty years with the team that drafted him. They did. Duncan - 5 times. Lebron - 1. We even said let’s ignore Lebron’s return. The 0 times is just a blatant lie.

Being drafted in the late 90s means any titles in the early 2000s are ignored - for what? Narrative?

It’s become this constant ignore facts and then say the other person is wrong as an argument even when it’s black and white proven false I guess.

Again. Not the topic. And thats probably not "literally " what he said. Ive seen the post.

He has as much a right to talk from the other side as anyone else, especially since he did a good job explaining what the position is. He's not worth discussing it because of a post he made in the past and because of that he doesn't represent the other sides position (even tho he did well in doing so?)

The mischaracterization came from ur boy who doesn't even understand what the anti two position is. Which is hilarious cuz thats seemingly all he posts about.

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[ciueli]

GTJ doesn't need to "massively improve." He averaged 13 PPG on 60 TS% as the 3rd/4th option in the second half of the 19/20 season and he averaged 15 PPG on 55 TS% as the clear #3 option with Portland last season. For a 21-22 year-old, those are very good numbers and they can be easily replicated as the 3rd/4th option (depending on how OG progresses) this coming season.

He absolutely needs to improve massively from what he did for Toronto last season, especially when you consider that so many of those 17 games he played were against non-playoff teams or undermanned teams. Only 7 games of the 17 he played were against full strength playoff teams (WAS, NYK twice, MEM, LAC, PHO, POR). Next season he'll really have to bring it against all the good teams in our conference which is pretty stacked (Nets, Sixers, Celtics, Knicks were all playoff teams last season).

For all of the talk that Lillard and McCollum (who combined to average 51.9 PPG on 38.7 FGA while combining for 12.2 AST) created all of GTJ's offence, 32% of his FGM were unassisted in Portland. For comparison, 34% of Powell's FGM were unassisted in Portland. Also, Siakam and FVV -- while clearly not at the same level as Lillard especially -- are more than capable of being the main creators. They combined for 10.8 AST while only committing 4.1 TOV last season and that was while sharing duties with Lowry (who averaged 7.2 AST) as the main playmakers.

GTJ only played 8 games with FVV and 4 games with Lowry (3 games where they both played), which means Flynn+Bembry+Stanley were the secondary playmakers behind Siakam in most of the other ~10 games that GTJ played for us. It's no wonder his numbers didn't look very good. This year will be very different without a tanking lineup in most of his games.

Since Kyle is no longer on the team, playing a bunch of minutes with Malachi Flynn is probably a pretty good indication of the type of player Trent will be for us. Realistically, he was never going to play 100% of his minutes with Fred on the floor. Even with Fred on it's not the best fit as he is not a great drive and finish player, more of a spot up shooter himself, this is what made Norm a much better fit for the Raptors than Trent, he could ball handle, drive and finish if the defense took away his 3 point shot.

[canada_dry]

This is hilarious. Like I get it, maybe they don't suck too much and they end up winning 40 games and get a low seed like you are suggesting. But to just assume after losing Lowry and going young it's some how guaranteed that we'll make the playoffs is wrong imo.

I didn't say it's guaranteed that they will be in the playoffs and I've maintained that this is a play-in team, but we ain't never bottoming out like some people want.

Most of us here are saying the team isn't good enough to go over the 37 win total o/u it's not about bottoming out or trading everyone. Talent will dictated the direction of this team.

It's hard to predict which is why people on both sides are making half measure predictions like 'I think they'll win 45+ or be really bad', no one wants to go out on a limb. We'll get a better idea a month into the season.

U also blatantly said u hope the team "tanks better" this year. I.e they tank earlier in the year. Maybe from the start.

So basically what hes saying the team wont do(trying to be bad to start the season) is something you're clamoring for. Which for some reason u denied wanting when in the same thread u said u were hoping for. Ur kinda all over the place my guy.

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[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Think raps will be somewhere between 6-8th seed this year.

I only see 5 teams definitely being 100% better than us: Nets, Bucks, Miami, 76ers and Boston.

Bulls, Pacers, and Knicks don't scare me.

Hawks are better than us too imo.

What makes the east so hard to gauge this year is that a bunch of them could fall off too.

Even the teams people see as dominant are an injury or two away from average. It's two years of quick turnarounds in the offseason, that generally spells chaos and injuries.

[John Murdoch]

Sounds like he wants to have assetts for another Kawhi type of deal . Will be a long run but should be fun developing certain guys

[OhCanada1091]

Cool but I'd much rather we tank next year. That draft is stacked.

[720]

I didn't say it's guaranteed that they will be in the playoffs and I've maintained that this is a play-in team, but we ain't never bottoming out like some people want.

Most of us here are saying the team isn't good enough to go over the 37 win total o/u it's not about bottoming out or trading everyone. Talent will dictated the direction of this team.

It's hard to predict which is why people on both sides are making half measure predictions like 'I think they'll win 45+ or be really bad', no one wants to go out on a limb. We'll get a better idea a month into the season.

U also blatantly said u hope the team "tanks better" this year. I.e they tank earlier in the year. Maybe from the start.

So basically what hes saying the team wont do(trying to be bad to start the season) is something you're clamoring for. Which for some reason u denied wanting when in the same thread u said u were hoping for. Ur kinda all over the place my guy.

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You're a clown lol , I was referring to when he kept bringing back Fred, Trent, and Siakam in random games at the end of the season, completely benched our tank commander in Baynes and brought help for that position. Basically implied that this time if things go south he lets it go south completely. Also on the post you are referring to I said I ain't complaining because we got lucky and ended up with the 4th pick. Now **** off weirdo.

[720]

Cool but I'd much rather we tank next year. That draft is stacked.

I feel like Dragic is gone for sure, they'll trade Boucher if we suck because might as well something for him before he's a free agent. Hopefully play our young guys more minutes down the stretch.

[Reeko]

Most of us here are saying the team isn't good enough to go over the 37 win total o/u it's not about bottoming out or trading everyone. Talent will dictated the direction of this team.

It's hard to predict which is why people on both sides are making half measure predictions like 'I think they'll win 45+ or be really bad', no one wants to go out on a limb. We'll get a better idea a month into the season.

U also blatantly said u hope the team "tanks better" this year. I.e they tank earlier in the year. Maybe from the start.

So basically what hes saying the team wont do(trying to be bad to start the season) is something you're clamoring for. Which for some reason u denied wanting when in the same thread u said u were hoping for. Ur kinda all over the place my guy.

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You're a clown lol , I was referring to when he kept bringing back Fred, Trent, and Siakam in random games at the end of the season, completely benched our tank commander in Baynes and brought help for that position. Basically implied that this time if things go south he lets it go south completely. Also on the post you are referring to I said I ain't complaining because we got lucky and ended up with the 4th pick. Now **** off weirdo.

C'mon man. You're smart enough to make your point without that last sentence. Consider this an unofficial warning.

[Los_29]

You don’t even post enough to represent treadmill nation I don’t even think of you when I mention them. But aren’t you the guy that said a top 5 pick has never won a championship for the team that they were drafted in? Just stop bro I’m ignoring you.

Well he illustrated it pretty damn well. So...


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By ignoring Duncan, Wade, Lebron…

I am not sure why some people continue to bring up Lebron here. He LEFT Cleveland for four years and then came back. Yes, he won with the team that drafted him but he had to leave that team for four years. Are we really going to use that as an example?

And Wade never won until they went out and got Shaq and then won two more rings when they went out and got Bosh and Lebron. Duncan was drafted by a team that already was a 50+ win team that got the #1 pick due to Robinson missing nearly the entire year. Don't get me wrong, Duncan is one of the best power forwards of all-time but he also had the benefit of playing for one of the best franchises in NBA history.

The fact that Duncan and Wade are the only two from that list in the last 30 years is absolutely insane and just shows you how ridiculously stupid the idea of tanking really is. I mean there are surely more than two top 5 players that have won the championship right in the past 30 years? I haven't looked.

[720]

U also blatantly said u hope the team "tanks better" this year. I.e they tank earlier in the year. Maybe from the start.

So basically what hes saying the team wont do(trying to be bad to start the season) is something you're clamoring for. Which for some reason u denied wanting when in the same thread u said u were hoping for. Ur kinda all over the place my guy.

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You're a clown lol , I was referring to when he kept bringing back Fred, Trent, and Siakam in random games at the end of the season, completely benched our tank commander in Baynes and brought help for that position. Basically implied that this time if things go south he lets it go south completely. Also on the post you are referring to I said I ain't complaining because we got lucky and ended up with the 4th pick. Now **** off weirdo.

C'mon man. You're smart enough to make your point without that last sentence. Consider this an unofficial warning.

Understood.

[CANsportsguru]

Yeah there's no question we're lottery bound. However the question is do we trade Pascal at some point at try to get a top 5 pick (and whatever assets he lands us) or do we think having Pascal and 10-15 pick is a better option. This team currently is 38-42 win team (depending on how many games Pascal misses at the start of the season). Masai has said in the past that he doesn't want to be in "no man's land" which is where this team would be if we finished just around .500

[Los_29]

Yeah there's no question we're lottery bound. However the question is do we trade Pascal at some point at try to get a top 5 pick (and whatever assets he lands us) or do we think having Pascal and 10-15 pick is a better option. This team currently is 38-42 win team (depending on how many games Pascal misses at the start of the season). Masai has said in the past that he doesn't want to be in "no man's land" which is where this team would be if we finished just around .500

38-42 wins is not "no mans land." We are a young team with the potential to get better with the continued growth of Barnes, Og, Precious, GTJ and Flynn.

If people applied this same logic to every team in the league then no one would ever win a championship because they'd blow up young teams every time they won 38-42 games.

Championships aren't won overnight.

[Tor_Raps]

Hawks are better than us too imo.

Maybe, I watched them in the playoffs and they basically needed 35+ a night from Trae just to have a chance. Nurse is great at devising defensive schemes for these one man show type of teams.

They shouldn't have gotten passed Philly but their epic meltdown is a whole other topic.

There are no maybes about that. The Hawks are on a completely different tier than us currently.

They have a bunch of young players that are improving on top of the amazing success they just had last season. They also didn't have one of their best players last playoffs (DeAndre Hunter) and were missing a decent one in Reddish.