Game 6: Pistons (1-4) @ Nets (3-3) - Oct. 31 7:30 PM EST

[bstein14]

Pistons have 10 holdover players from last year's team. Of those, with the exceptions of Bey and Josh Jackson, it wouldn't be hard to make a case that everybody else has regressed this season. Lee has barely played, so you could give him an exception as well.

So when Cade doesn't play (5 of 6 games so far), basically we've seen a worse version of last year's team, and last year was a bad team that wasn't particularly fun to watch.

100%, and even Bey who has improved in some areas has struggled with his 3 point shot which was money for him last season.

Killian without a doubt had the most room to improve because he was starting at the bottom and his offense looks just as bad as last season when he had the lowest TS% in the entire league. On top of that, he isn't doing anything to create for teammates really either, which was supposed to be his saving grace. He also, although having some nice steals, has performed really poorly as far as limiting his opponent in scoring which is ultimately the biggest part of defense.

Josh Jackson I would say has taken a step forward but he is the only player, as well as Lee who looked better in preseason but hasn't gotten a legit chance yet in the regular season. Even Stewart hasn't looked as good as last year.

I love watching Pistons basketball and even enjoy watching young player who make mistakes learn and get better over time, but its certainly discouraging to see just how bad we've been. Add in the fact that Cade hasn't gotten to play except for one game that was certainly a disappointment as well and the excitement for this season is fading fast. I would say going into this this, it was the most excited I've been for a season in over a decade put that excitement is quickly fading.

The silver lining here is that the season is still really young, and we haven't gotten much Cade yet... and we have missed shots we "should" make based on play from last season so hopefully we get it together soon or else this is going to be a really long season (or short if you just stop watching).

[Pistonrings]

If hayes was anywhere close to 10/5/3, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He's not though. He's at 5/3/3 on 25% shooting. https://youtu.be/2rR8w9QYsV0 only a couple games in, but right now, he's down across the board in everything except steals. That's not what you want to see out of your second year players. The expectation was that he would show some improvement on his 7/5/3 on 36%

And like I said, in the last 3 he scored 6, what should have been 11, and 12. He has clearly made progress. His defense has been very good, actually fantastic against the Nets. The Nets announcers we're impressed with him.

So if he continues as he has the last 3, it won't be long until he gets closer and closer to 10 and 5.

[buzzkilloton]

If hayes was anywhere close to 10/5/3, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He's not though. He's at 5/3/3 on 25% shooting. https://youtu.be/2rR8w9QYsV0 only a couple games in, but right now, he's down across the board in everything except steals. That's not what you want to see out of your second year players. The expectation was that he would show some improvement on his 7/5/3 on 36%

And like I said, in the last 3 he scored 6, what should have been 11, and 12. He has clearly made progress. His defense has been very good, actually fantastic against the Nets. The Nets announcers we're impressed with him.

So if he continues as he has the last 3, it won't be long until he gets closer and closer to 10 and 5.

If a player is good you dont have to grasp at straws and say "what should have been 11 and 12". Every player in the NBA has should of beens this isnt a Killian Hayes only thing. Hes looking like a bust and a bunch of guards taking after him are looking way better going into their 2nd season.

If you want to see what "progress" looks like check what Cole Anthony is doing year two. Hes averaging 19.4 7.6reb 5.6apg while shooting 44.6% from 3pt in his second season. That was pick 15 in the same draft.

[Pistonrings]

If hayes was anywhere close to 10/5/3, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He's not though. He's at 5/3/3 on 25% shooting. https://youtu.be/2rR8w9QYsV0 only a couple games in, but right now, he's down across the board in everything except steals. That's not what you want to see out of your second year players. The expectation was that he would show some improvement on his 7/5/3 on 36%

And like I said, in the last 3 he scored 6, what should have been 11, and 12. He has clearly made progress. His defense has been very good, actually fantastic against the Nets. The Nets announcers we're impressed with him.

So if he continues as he has the last 3, it won't be long until he gets closer and closer to 10 and 5.

If a player is good you dont have to grasp at straws and say "what should have been 11 and 12". Every player in the NBA has should of beens this isnt a Killian Hayes only thing. Hes looking like a bust and a bunch of guards taking after him are looking way better going into their 2nd season.

If you want to see what "progress" looks like check what Cole Anthony is doing year two. Hes averaging 19.4 7.6reb 5.6apg while shooting 44.6% from 3pt in his second season. That was pick 15 in the same draft.

How many games has he played? Was he is the French league, was he thrown in the starting pg role, the most important position in the NBA after only playing in the French league?.
Killian has played 3q total NBA games. Anyone claiming he is a bust is a complete moron and knows nothing about the NBA more sports of any kind. Someone like you would have had Chauncey Billups off our team in half a season, you know, the guy that ended up being an all star and a finals MVP.

[buzzkilloton]

And like I said, in the last 3 he scored 6, what should have been 11, and 12. He has clearly made progress. His defense has been very good, actually fantastic against the Nets. The Nets announcers we're impressed with him.

So if he continues as he has the last 3, it won't be long until he gets closer and closer to 10 and 5.

If a player is good you dont have to grasp at straws and say "what should have been 11 and 12". Every player in the NBA has should of beens this isnt a Killian Hayes only thing. Hes looking like a bust and a bunch of guards taking after him are looking way better going into their 2nd season.

If you want to see what "progress" looks like check what Cole Anthony is doing year two. Hes averaging 19.4 7.6reb 5.6apg while shooting 44.6% from 3pt in his second season. That was pick 15 in the same draft.

How many games has he played? Was he is the French league, was he thrown in the starting pg role, the most important position in the NBA after only playing in the French league?.
Killian has played 3q total NBA games. Anyone claiming he is a bust is a complete moron and knows nothing about the NBA more sports of any kind. Someone like you would have had Chauncey Billups off our team in half a season, you know, the guy that ended up being an all star and a finals MVP.

Someone having a diff take on a player then you doesnt make them a "complete moron". Its a discussion forum and nobody is always correct. If you think that way then it says alot about you not other posters.

Hes clearly looking like a bust. You can throw any excuse you want at me to defend it. He cant score. Guys come in as rookies and play the pg position better then him all the time. He didnt even look like a NBA player in summer league with scrubs out there.

Every team would of had Billups off their team early in his career when he looked like a bust. NBA teams cant hold onto players for years to show somethign when they stink. Sometimes a guy turns it on after multiple teams and systems. For every Chauncey that turned it on later their is 10 guys who looked like busts year 2 and were busts.

I'm sure you would of been defending Josh Jackson as well because he was a high draft pick who looked bad his first couple seasons. Mind you Killian is playing much worse then Jackson in Jacksons first few years.

[The Moose]

Realistically on any given night, we likely only have 4 players on our roster that I would consider 'above-average' NBA players, those 4 being Grant/Bey/Olynyk/likely Cade.

Its going to be a long season, as I suspected we will most likely be fighting in the bottom 3 tank wars again this season

[buzzkilloton]

Realistically on any given night, we likely only have 4 players on our roster that I would consider 'above-average' NBA players, those 4 being Grant/Bey/Olynyk/likely Cade.

Its going to be a long season, as I suspected we will most likely be fighting in the bottom 3 tank wars again this season

Its going to be way better when Cade is healthy. The next year we should look much much better. No pain no gain!

[Manocad]

If a player is good you dont have to grasp at straws and say "what should have been 11 and 12". Every player in the NBA has should of beens this isnt a Killian Hayes only thing. Hes looking like a bust and a bunch of guards taking after him are looking way better going into their 2nd season.

If you want to see what "progress" looks like check what Cole Anthony is doing year two. Hes averaging 19.4 7.6reb 5.6apg while shooting 44.6% from 3pt in his second season. That was pick 15 in the same draft.

How many games has he played? Was he is the French league, was he thrown in the starting pg role, the most important position in the NBA after only playing in the French league?.
Killian has played 3q total NBA games. Anyone claiming he is a bust is a complete moron and knows nothing about the NBA more sports of any kind. Someone like you would have had Chauncey Billups off our team in half a season, you know, the guy that ended up being an all star and a finals MVP.

Someone having a diff take on a player then you doesnt make them a "complete moron". Its a discussion forum and nobody is always correct. If you think that way then it says alot about you not other posters.

Hes clearly looking like a bust. You can throw any excuse you want at me to defend it. He cant score. Guys come in as rookies and play the pg position better then him all the time. He didnt even look like a NBA player in summer league with scrubs out there.

Every team would of had Billups off their team early in his career when he looked like a bust. NBA teams cant hold onto players for years to show somethign when they stink. Sometimes a guy turns it on after multiple teams and systems. For every Chauncey that turned it on later their is 10 guys who looked like busts year 2 and were busts.

I'm sure you would of been defending Josh Jackson as well because he was a high draft pick who looked bad his first couple seasons. Mind you Killian is playing much worse then Jackson in Jacksons first few years.

Killian only "clearly looks like a bust" if you apply a subjective definition of bust. Had he played a full rookie season without injury I'd be much more inclined to believe the bust label but as it stands he's played one game with his projected backcourt mate. To completely disregard the impact that playing with Cade may have on Killian's confidence, attitude, or how he's able to operate within the game is short-sighted IMO.

[Snakebites]

Realistically on any given night, we likely only have 4 players on our roster that I would consider 'above-average' NBA players, those 4 being Grant/Bey/Olynyk/likely Cade.

Its going to be a long season, as I suspected we will most likely be fighting in the bottom 3 tank wars again this season

As of right now I think Kelly, Grant, and Bey are the only guys we have who could sniff a playoff rotation.

[Billl]

How many games has he played? Was he is the French league, was he thrown in the starting pg role, the most important position in the NBA after only playing in the French league?.
Killian has played 3q total NBA games. Anyone claiming he is a bust is a complete moron and knows nothing about the NBA more sports of any kind. Someone like you would have had Chauncey Billups off our team in half a season, you know, the guy that ended up being an all star and a finals MVP.

Someone having a diff take on a player then you doesnt make them a "complete moron". Its a discussion forum and nobody is always correct. If you think that way then it says alot about you not other posters.

Hes clearly looking like a bust. You can throw any excuse you want at me to defend it. He cant score. Guys come in as rookies and play the pg position better then him all the time. He didnt even look like a NBA player in summer league with scrubs out there.

Every team would of had Billups off their team early in his career when he looked like a bust. NBA teams cant hold onto players for years to show somethign when they stink. Sometimes a guy turns it on after multiple teams and systems. For every Chauncey that turned it on later their is 10 guys who looked like busts year 2 and were busts.

I'm sure you would of been defending Josh Jackson as well because he was a high draft pick who looked bad his first couple seasons. Mind you Killian is playing much worse then Jackson in Jacksons first few years.

Killian only "clearly looks like a bust" if you apply a subjective definition of bust. Had he played a full rookie season without injury I'd be much more inclined to believe the bust label but as it stands he's played one game with his projected backcourt mate. To completely disregard the impact that playing with Cade may have on Killian's confidence, attitude, or how he's able to operate within the game is short-sighted IMO.

He still looks like a bust right now. That doesn't mean he will be a bust. Guys turn it around. Especially guys who had an early injury or similar obstacle. His production right now is horrible, but there really is no other option than to keep spoon feeding him minutes and hope he turns the corner. It's not like we have better guard prospects to develop that he is blocking.

[vege]

Realistically on any given night, we likely only have 4 players on our roster that I would consider 'above-average' NBA players, those 4 being Grant/Bey/Olynyk/likely Cade.

Its going to be a long season, as I suspected we will most likely be fighting in the bottom 3 tank wars again this season

Trey Lyles have been really good for us, but other than that I 100% agree with you.

[Manocad]

Someone having a diff take on a player then you doesnt make them a "complete moron". Its a discussion forum and nobody is always correct. If you think that way then it says alot about you not other posters.

Hes clearly looking like a bust. You can throw any excuse you want at me to defend it. He cant score. Guys come in as rookies and play the pg position better then him all the time. He didnt even look like a NBA player in summer league with scrubs out there.

Every team would of had Billups off their team early in his career when he looked like a bust. NBA teams cant hold onto players for years to show somethign when they stink. Sometimes a guy turns it on after multiple teams and systems. For every Chauncey that turned it on later their is 10 guys who looked like busts year 2 and were busts.

I'm sure you would of been defending Josh Jackson as well because he was a high draft pick who looked bad his first couple seasons. Mind you Killian is playing much worse then Jackson in Jacksons first few years.

Killian only "clearly looks like a bust" if you apply a subjective definition of bust. Had he played a full rookie season without injury I'd be much more inclined to believe the bust label but as it stands he's played one game with his projected backcourt mate. To completely disregard the impact that playing with Cade may have on Killian's confidence, attitude, or how he's able to operate within the game is short-sighted IMO.

He still looks like a bust right now. That doesn't mean he will be a bust. Guys turn it around. Especially guys who had an early injury or similar obstacle. His production right now is horrible, but there really is no other option than to keep spoon feeding him minutes and hope he turns the corner. It's not like we have better guard prospects to develop that he is blocking.

Yeah, but you can say that about a lot of high first rounders who don’t come out flying after 30 games.The point I’m making is only that there’s a difference between looking like a bust/not producing vs being treated like a bust which would then allude to him BEING a bust at this point. Which is subjective. Some people might think he is and others may not since their definition of a bust differs.

And as I always say, I’m not a Killian fanboy in any way. To your point, and which I’ve brought up many times, is that there’s no harm in continuing to try to turn him into something.