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Statlanta wrote:Fair or not. ZIon had injury issues and produced immediately. Cade is graded on a number draft pick scale. Outsiders will be very disappointed if he doesn’t improve sooner than later
K_chile22 wrote:All time bust after 2 games is quite the take
10giz wrote:K_chile22 wrote:All time bust after 2 games is quite the take
People have the most twisted perception and terribly wrong expectations of #1 selections (top 5 even more so).
Cade Cunningham
Anthony Edwards
Zion Williamson
Deandre Ayton
Markelle Fultz
Ben Simmons
Karl Anthony Towns
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
Dwight Howard
The truth nobody wants to accept is that getting any player who can even be a solid starter - mid range all star should be considered a win. The only two 1st overall picks to even contribute to a title, only did so on the back of LeBron James.
This list gets even uglier if you the top 5 picks into account.
I believe this is a huge reason Masai Ujiri (as well as some others) focus primarily on character and personality as those are the types that are able to overcome adversity, maintain consistent work ethic, and carry themselves professionally over the course of a long period of time.
Jadoogar wrote:What was the reason Cade Cunningham was ranked #1? I'm not overreacting to the slow start, that happens. But skill wise, i don't see how he's better than Mobley.
Yallbecrazy wrote:10giz wrote:K_chile22 wrote:All time bust after 2 games is quite the take
People have the most twisted perception and terribly wrong expectations of #1 selections (top 5 even more so).
Cade Cunningham
Anthony Edwards
Zion Williamson
Deandre Ayton
Markelle Fultz
Ben Simmons
Karl Anthony Towns
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
Dwight Howard
The truth nobody wants to accept is that getting any player who can even be a solid starter - mid range all star should be considered a win. The only two 1st overall picks to even contribute to a title, only did so on the back of LeBron James.
This list gets even uglier if you the top 5 picks into account.
I believe this is a huge reason Masai Ujiri (as well as some others) focus primarily on character and personality as those are the types that are able to overcome adversity, maintain consistent work ethic, and carry themselves professionally over the course of a long period of time.
This was a stacked draft though and Mobley was an all time level prospect, unfortunately the groupthink around Ford and ESPN said Cade was the best and the internet believed it. The #1 pick should be a lot better than many other years because this draft had 5+ guys that would have gone #1 in 2020.
ocelot17 wrote:?s=21
CptCrunch wrote:1/ Cade's shooting is fine.
2/ He was a fairly elite shooter in college, off the screen, in iso and in catch and shoot situation. Even if he can't iso in the NBA, his shot should be fine when he gets used to the speed of the game.
3/ My big problem with Cade pre-draft (hence ranking him as #6 on my big board) is that I see no path for him to play point guard in the league. In college he was at 94 assist to 109 turnovers, summer league he was 7 assist to 12 turnovers, in his first 2 games, he is 5 assists to 4 turnovers. I see no realistic path for him to improve his ATO (Assist TurnOver ratio) to a reasonable level above 2. Just as a frame of reference, a turnover prone PG like Westbrook is still at 2.5 ATO. Good NBA guards are between 2.7-3 ATO. Rubio and Paul are at 4 ATO.
4/ I fail to see how any who has ever looked at his stat sheet can believe that Cade can play point forward/guard in the league. This is all ignoring his physical deficiencies in terms of being an minus athlete at the NBA level.
there were definitely some analytics people who loved Mobley and had him as a cant miss prospect. He had an all time high BPM in college, carried a mediocre USC team to relevancy, played elite defense while never fouling, racked up great assist numbers for a big man. Just because the traditional mainstream media underrated Mobley by following the mindless trend of underrating bigmen doesnt mean no one saw this coming.10giz wrote:Yallbecrazy wrote:10giz wrote:
People have the most twisted perception and terribly wrong expectations of #1 selections (top 5 even more so).
Cade Cunningham
Anthony Edwards
Zion Williamson
Deandre Ayton
Markelle Fultz
Ben Simmons
Karl Anthony Towns
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
Dwight Howard
The truth nobody wants to accept is that getting any player who can even be a solid starter - mid range all star should be considered a win. The only two 1st overall picks to even contribute to a title, only did so on the back of LeBron James.
This list gets even uglier if you the top 5 picks into account.
I believe this is a huge reason Masai Ujiri (as well as some others) focus primarily on character and personality as those are the types that are able to overcome adversity, maintain consistent work ethic, and carry themselves professionally over the course of a long period of time.
This was a stacked draft though and Mobley was an all time level prospect, unfortunately the groupthink around Ford and ESPN said Cade was the best and the internet believed it. The #1 pick should be a lot better than many other years because this draft had 5+ guys that would have gone #1 in 2020.
I'm sorry but Mobley was nowhere near as highly spoken of or regarded as prospects like KAT, AD, Oden. Do people not remember who Andrew Bogut was in college? Go further back to Emeka Okafor, D12, Horford. Blake Griffin was supposed to change the game.
The internet may have believed, but I and others didn't.
Any fan who's had a GM of their team hit big on a non top 5 pick probably didn't believe it either.
Even most Raptor fans, literally the most fortunate and blessed fanbase when it comes to drafting good-great players without premium picks still went with consensus and furthermore bashed Masai right after he took Barnes.
Fact is we don't know **** about how any class will develop. Everyones just looked into recency bias and theres just so much more media coverage on certain guys that people just accept whatever they read.
Madhouse wrote:Jalen Green played very well in the first half, he had some dumb TOs in the 2nd half.
normgod6 wrote:there were definitely some analytics people who loved Mobley and had him as a cant miss prospect. He had an all time high BPM in college, carried a mediocre USC team to relevancy, played elite defense while never fouling, racked up great assist numbers for a big man. Just because the traditional mainstream media underrated Mobley by following the mindless trend of underrating bigmen doesnt mean no one saw this coming.
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Madhouse wrote:CptCrunch wrote:1/ Cade's shooting is fine.
2/ He was a fairly elite shooter in college, off the screen, in iso and in catch and shoot situation. Even if he can't iso in the NBA, his shot should be fine when he gets used to the speed of the game.
3/ My big problem with Cade pre-draft (hence ranking him as #6 on my big board) is that I see no path for him to play point guard in the league. In college he was at 94 assist to 109 turnovers, summer league he was 7 assist to 12 turnovers, in his first 2 games, he is 5 assists to 4 turnovers. I see no realistic path for him to improve his ATO (Assist TurnOver ratio) to a reasonable level above 2. Just as a frame of reference, a turnover prone PG like Westbrook is still at 2.5 ATO. Good NBA guards are between 2.7-3 ATO. Rubio and Paul are at 4 ATO.
4/ I fail to see how any who has ever looked at his stat sheet can believe that Cade can play point forward/guard in the league. This is all ignoring his physical deficiencies in terms of being an minus athlete at the NBA level.
what did your big board look like?
CptCrunch wrote:This is my final board for the top 10, 3 hours before the draft.
1. Mobley
gap
2. Suggs
3. Barnes
4. Cade
gap
5. Sengun
6. Green
7. Wagner
gap
8. Giddy
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Bouknight
CptCrunch wrote:Madhouse wrote:CptCrunch wrote:1/ Cade's shooting is fine.
2/ He was a fairly elite shooter in college, off the screen, in iso and in catch and shoot situation. Even if he can't iso in the NBA, his shot should be fine when he gets used to the speed of the game.
3/ My big problem with Cade pre-draft (hence ranking him as #6 on my big board) is that I see no path for him to play point guard in the league. In college he was at 94 assist to 109 turnovers, summer league he was 7 assist to 12 turnovers, in his first 2 games, he is 5 assists to 4 turnovers. I see no realistic path for him to improve his ATO (Assist TurnOver ratio) to a reasonable level above 2. Just as a frame of reference, a turnover prone PG like Westbrook is still at 2.5 ATO. Good NBA guards are between 2.7-3 ATO. Rubio and Paul are at 4 ATO.
4/ I fail to see how any who has ever looked at his stat sheet can believe that Cade can play point forward/guard in the league. This is all ignoring his physical deficiencies in terms of being an minus athlete at the NBA level.
what did your big board look like?
Sorry revisionist memory, I had him at #4, Green at #6. This was 3 hours before draft. This has been a good year for my big board.CptCrunch wrote:This is my final board for the top 10, 3 hours before the draft.
1. Mobley
gap
2. Suggs
3. Barnes
4. Cade
gap
5. Sengun
6. Green
7. Wagner
gap
8. Giddy
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Bouknight
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