2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 2)

[Golden Knight]

This draft class has been the biggest NBA story this year IMO. Best since '03, stacked with a bunch of special players.

Way too early for this.

2008
2009
2011
2014
2018

are all solid drafts. 2012 is not too bad either.

[CalL]

This draft class has been the biggest NBA story this year IMO. Best since '03, stacked with a bunch of special players.

Way too early for this.

2008
2009
2011
2014
2018

are all solid drafts. 2012 is not too bad either.

Agreed. 2011 had Kawhi, Butler, Klay and Kyrie + Vucevic/IT/Kemba. I don't think that 2021 will have a top 4 that matches the 2011 top 4, but maybe it will have more depth. 2011 also was the draft in the past decade with the most all-stars (so far) with 7, but in my opinion 2018 could surpass 2011 eventually. Doncic and Young are already all-stars and MPJ/JJJ/SGA/Mikal Bridges/Miles Bridges/Ayton/Williams and maybe Sexton all could also become all-stars eventually.

2014 was also very good, although it didn't quite have the top end talent after Embiid/Jokic. At least 4 of the following guys wouldn't go top 10 in a 2014 redraft: Smart, Clarkson, Wiggins, Gordon, Dinwiddie, J. Harris ... really good depth for sure.

2019 was also surprisingly good (so far) in my opinion. Apart from Zion, Morant and Barrett it also had Reddish, Hunter, White, K. Johnson, Herro, Hachimura, Garland, Washington, Horton-Tucker, KPJ, Alexander-Walker, Thybulle, Poole, Mann, ...

I guess in the end it depends on the criteria you use (number of franchise players/number of all-stars/strength of top 5/top 10/top 14), but i think that both 2018 and 2021 could end up as top 3-5 drafts of this century.

[Mr Loggins]

and people were saying 2011 was a weak draft at the time….

[Tripod]

[/quote]

you dont understand mobley doesnt have to score 20 ppg like barnes to be effective. your just arguing for raw output but my eye says they are several tiers away. mobley is not a mvp caliber now but will be very soon depending on his 3pt jumper.
barnes is not the prospect i thought hes not dishing out 5 plus assists like scottie pippen and he has no 3pt.[/quote]
What kind of crazy talk is this?

You think Barnes has to score 20 to be effective? You have not been watching TO games at all then.

No, Barnes is not dishing 5 assists per game and no, he has no 3. But everyone knew he had no 3 so if you expected that from him as a rookie, that's on you. But no one ALSO expected him to be averaging 18 pts a game on the highest sh% out of all the top rookies AND leading all rookies in rebounds.

How anyone could try and spin Barnes posting 18, 9, 2, .7, .6 while shooting almost 55% and over 70% on ft.....as a bad thing because of lower assists, is mind boggling.

[Mr Loggins]

two young people related thoughts:

a) I was *really* hoping cavs could spin Collin Sexmachine into the 6 or 7 pick and grab Barnes

b) Man, how would Golden State look with Lamelo and Franz Wagner on their team…

[Shy Gorgeous-Al]

Don't know who won the matchup between Barnes or Mobley, probably Mobley, but it doesn't matter.

I will say that Mobley's defensive impact has not been the same in the last stretch of games compared to the start. The fatigue is setting in, most likely.

[basketballRob]

you dont understand mobley doesnt have to score 20 ppg like barnes to be effective. your just arguing for raw output but my eye says they are several tiers away. mobley is not a mvp caliber now but will be very soon depending on his 3pt jumper.
barnes is not the prospect i thought hes not dishing out 5 plus assists like scottie pippen and he has no 3pt.[/quote]
What kind of crazy talk is this?

You think Barnes has to score 20 to be effective? You have not been watching TO games at all then.

No, Barnes is not dishing 5 assists per game and no, he has no 3. But everyone knew he had no 3 so if you expected that from him as a rookie, that's on you. But no one ALSO expected him to be averaging 18 pts a game on the highest sh% out of all the top rookies AND leading all rookies in rebounds.

How anyone could try and spin Barnes posting 18, 9, 2, .7, .6 while shooting almost 55% and over 70% on ft.....as a bad thing because of lower assists, is mind boggling.[/quote]He's shooting 52/22/71.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[PD28]

you dont understand mobley doesnt have to score 20 ppg like barnes to be effective. your just arguing for raw output but my eye says they are several tiers away. mobley is not a mvp caliber now but will be very soon depending on his 3pt jumper.
barnes is not the prospect i thought hes not dishing out 5 plus assists like scottie pippen and he has no 3pt.

What kind of crazy talk is this?

You think Barnes has to score 20 to be effective? You have not been watching TO games at all then.

No, Barnes is not dishing 5 assists per game and no, he has no 3. But everyone knew he had no 3 so if you expected that from him as a rookie, that's on you. But no one ALSO expected him to be averaging 18 pts a game on the highest sh% out of all the top rookies AND leading all rookies in rebounds.

How anyone could try and spin Barnes posting 18, 9, 2, .7, .6 while shooting almost 55% and over 70% on ft.....as a bad thing because of lower assists, is mind boggling.[/quote]He's shooting 52/22/71.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app[/quote]

Given that there are guard Rookies shooting considerably worse from all over the court, I'd take 52/22/71 as a bright spot.

[JonFromVA]

Mobley 1, Barnes 0 in the head to head match. Mobley was slightly better than Barnes today. If Mobley was more assertive offensively, it wouldn't have been even close.

you dont understand mobley doesnt have to score 20 ppg like barnes to be effective. your just arguing for raw output but my eye says they are several tiers away. mobley is not a mvp caliber now but will be very soon depending on his 3pt jumper.
barnes is not the prospect i thought hes not dishing out 5 plus assists like scottie pippen and he has no 3pt.

To be fair, neither rook is being used a first or even a second option, so certain aspects of their game aren't going to get the chance to shine so much at this stage (or drag them down).

I mean ... 22 year old Scottie Pippen averaged 8 & 2 as a rookie and didn't start a single game.

The good news is because both Mobley and Barnes can contribute in multiple ways, they will have a chance to experience something most one and dones don't ... and that's the chance to contribute to winning.

[JonFromVA]

Don't know who won the matchup between Barnes or Mobley, probably Mobley, but it doesn't matter.

I will say that Mobley's defensive impact has not been the same in the last stretch of games compared to the start. The fatigue is setting in, most likely.

Yep, I've been seeing it as well. He also twisted his ankle a few games back which sometimes lingers even if not completely obvious.

Since his motor was a question mark in College, it's something to watch and try to figure out.

Maybe Bickerstaff's plan it to power drive him through the rookie wall ...

[JonFromVA]

Mobley’s priority definitely needs to be getting himself in the weight room right now, so that his rebounding and his ability to finish through contact can improve.

Ben Wallace would be in the weight room right after games, but Mobley will likely need all the rest he can get in order to make it through the grind of his rookie the season. Hopefully the Cavs at least hooked him up with a meal planner/dietician/etc, so he doesn't lose weight during the season ...

[Shy Gorgeous-Al]

Don't know who won the matchup between Barnes or Mobley, probably Mobley, but it doesn't matter.

I will say that Mobley's defensive impact has not been the same in the last stretch of games compared to the start. The fatigue is setting in, most likely.

Yep, I've been seeing it as well. He also twisted his ankle a few games back which sometimes lingers even if not completely obvious.

Since his motor was a question mark in College, it's something to watch and try to figure out.

Maybe Bickerstaff's plan it to power drive him through the rookie wall ...

I don't think Bickerstaff has a plan.

Despite the Cavs missing 2 rotational pieces and a starter, I don't think the plan to run your rookie into the ground is a wise one. A rookie that's impact is mostly measured on defense. Defense is all about subtleties... you slip just a tiny bit and it shows, especially when the rest of your game is not yet developed or formed. This team needs his defensive impact because of it's construction and Mobley needs to perform to the best of his abilities in that area in order to boost his confidence in other areas of the floor.

Fact of the matter is, he isn't challenging/altering the same amount of shots as he did and he certainly isn't racking up blocks or steals right now.

[Tor_Raps]

Mobley 1, Barnes 0 in the head to head match. Mobley was slightly better than Barnes today. If Mobley was more assertive offensively, it wouldn't have been even close.

you dont understand mobley doesnt have to score 20 ppg like barnes to be effective. your just arguing for raw output but my eye says they are several tiers away. mobley is not a mvp caliber now but will be very soon depending on his 3pt jumper.
barnes is not the prospect i thought hes not dishing out 5 plus assists like scottie pippen and he has no 3pt.

Lol dude... you seem to know nothing about Barnes.

In regards to Mobley, I clearly said Mobley was more effective than Barnes and that was without even trying to be assertive on offense. That clearly means he impacted the game without needing to score 20PPG.

It was just minor criticism to make him stand out even more than he already has after only 9 games in his rookie year. I'm sure he'll figure it out lol

[whitehops]

Cade is now at 11 assist to 13 turnovers. I've stated back in May and June pre-draft that Cade is not a point guard prospect. While his vision is decent for his size, his passing skills (in terms of ball placement) are poor and his handles loose. He has not at any point shown that can be play PG in this league. His assist to turnover is historically bad for a point guard prospect. No successful point guard has ever been drafted with his style of sub 1 assist to turnover ratio in college.

Without that PG tag, he is just an unathletic SG/SF on a cold streak. He is an elite shooter. There is no doubt that his shot will come along.

call him whatever position you want, cade is showing his potential as a lead ball handler and despite his loose handle, poor passing skills, etc. he is getting wherever he wants on the court and is making the pistons' broken offense flow.

the last two games he's (deservedly) been given more and more control of the offense and his usage is actually in the doncic/giannis range. he'll obviously have his struggles with that much usage but i'm excited to see how he handles it because the initial tape is promising.

also i'd be a little more cautious/thorough when dismissing or crowning prospects because of they hit/miss on a certain benchmark. is a 1.1 AST/TO ratio really much better than 0.9, for example? harden's AST/TO ratio in his freshman year was 1.2 and cade's was 0.9 and harden turned into one of the elite play makers in the league.

[JShuttlesworth]

I liked what I say from my first real look at Mobley yesterday, he's going to be a stud. I still have him projecting to be the best player from the draft.

[toooskies]

Let's not compare this class to historically great classes after they've panned out. Kawhi wasn't Kawhi his rookie year, Butler wasn't Butler. You couldn't tell if Kyrie was going to be a fringe all-star or an all-timer. You can't predict these things. But we can be pretty sure about the floor, there are lots of good players in this class that could be great.

[Blacksheep25]

Barnes has been fantastic in the way a normal great draft pick is ahead of the curve.

I’ve been really impressed with his scoring. He’s progressed much quicker than I expected.

Like most promising rookies, he isn’t the difference.

He missed a few games, team won anyway, and didn’t look any fundamentally different. Certainly not his fault they lost when he came back. They led most of it. They just have a much more established core with a number of guys who played on a championship team, and he’s not really a huge factor in winning or losing atm. Very very few rookies are.

Mobley is playing so many minutes as he’s transformative, and the very rare rookie who is the difference between winning and losing. It’s amazing to watch him contesting 3s and still being there when guys drive the lane, only for them to dribble back out rather than get it swatted. He’s altering the entire game.

Mobley has made life so much easier for Allen, beyond his own numbers. With that horrible defensive backcourt, it’s been amazing to see a patchwork roster of kids make sense. There has only been a handful of rookies who have ever had an impact like that.

He is going to get run down though with the minutes he’s logging. Cavs have to think more long term. He’s just so slim that it feel inevitable he’s just going to land wrong or something bad is going to happen at the end when exhausted given how much ground he covers. It’s about winning games, but need to keep him low 30s and just live with results at this point. It’s not a championship team and a few games I’ve seen him incredibly spent. They’re going to accelerate his rookie wall.

[LoveMyRaps]

Honestly Barnes and Mobley are levels above the rest of the field right now.

[HumbleRen]

Why was Jalen Green benched ? Silas is off it lol.

[Bruin]

Jalen Green benched in crunch time. He’s a defensive liability and they were trying to protect a 5 point lead so I guess I understand. Still a dumb decision to bench your 2nd overall pick like that