Clyde_Style wrote:j4remi wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:
And what will it take for you to believe otherwise?
That question is for Buzz too
Someone of consequence actually getting a legitimate sentence for the plotting of Jan. 6th probably. I have no confidence in prior administrations' actions being held accountable and I don't see a reason to feel confident now. I watched the Bush Administration skate for war crimes, I watched Trump get caught dead to rights twice with only fall-guys taking the hit, and I'm not really sure why I should be expecting different this time around. I'm used to flashy headlines with no results when it comes to legal ramifications for people in power, and a few slaps on the wrist are what I'm expecting because that's all I've seen come from any of this in the past.
Your historical consciousness is off the hook. When have you ever seen either such an orchestrated probe between Congress and the DOJ or so many other investigations and grand juries operating simultaneously and independently against a prior organization. This is so unprecedented that there is no comparison to anything preceding it.
And bear in mind that the Watergate investigations went on for years and 40 government officials were indicted and/or imprisoned. John Mitchell the US AG, the Bill Barr of Watergate, served 19 months in prison.
The list of people doing real time for Watergate is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_SevenAnd we’re dealing with a violent insurrection and multitudes of treason. Watergate was a picnic compared to this
Trump was never going to pay the piper as long as he was president. He turned the DOJ into his personal law firm for crying out loud.
You guys slay me. It is unfolding right before your eyes and you keep saying nobody will be held accountable. Whatever
I do agree that this feels like more of an organized effort than past attempts, but I'm cynical that it's for anything beyond the electoral values of pinning Trump to the Republican party as they try to hang on to majorities in Congress. When I hear about these House Committees, I hope they're gunning for results but I'm never quite sure that my goals and theirs are aligned. (caveat: This is why I'm much more hopeful for NY probes than Congressional questioning, but I do want to see Congressional subpoena power flexed in a useful manner because it will be rendered meaningless if they fail here imo).
If we have to go back to the 70's for a good example of accountability, I don't think it's too helpful. Especially with more recent examples that include an administration Biden was involved with giving a finger wag and a pass to that Bush crew. Just to the throw it in, Trump got in and brought back Iran Contra scandal folks as advisors and influential position-holders. In my lifetime, I've seen plenty of scandals and wrongdoing with no major consequences.
Even moving beyond the scope of administrative and governance-based cases. I remember the Wall St. inquiries after the economic collapse (fines that barely scratched the major players and the only prison time served was by a middle management guy), and recent cases over the Opioid crisis (fines) and Monsanto's horrific practices (fines)...I don't have a lot of faith in the system we've designed to hold anyone in power accountable. I'm dangerously close to nihilism about the judicial system and even moreso after Trump's mass of appointments got no pushback from Schumer and added in a bunch of radical and unqualified new lifetime judges.
Edit: This isn't really topic-related but it's another example of my falling faith in the system as it stands...I warned everybody on election day that Biden's victory wasn't good enough because of future implications of the down ballot losses and that's coming home to roost rapidly, here's the logline for this article about how Republicans are gerrymandering themselves into the majority
On a highly distorted congressional map that is still taking shape, the party has added enough safe House districts to capture control of the chamber based on its redistricting edge alone.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/15/us/politics/republicans-2022-redistricting-maps.html